The American Government Lacks Reason.

[Star Cannon]

There are several things about America that violates the logic of an INTP. Mainly: ME.

First... why, out of millions of Americans, are there only THREE presidential candidates to choose from? If America is the land of the Free, as stated in the Star Spangled Banner, then why are there only THREE individuals to choose from?

Second... why am I supposed to pay for the debt of my ancestors? The national debt is... OUTRAGEOUS! ABSOULTELY INTOLERABLE! It is not I, nor my neighbor, nor the person living across the street, who is deciding wher my parents tax dollars go. Why not just let the Government pay for it? Why not just let those who spend my parents money (I am fifteen) in the worst ways :rant: THEN EXPECT MY GENERATION to PAY FOR IT. Excuse me, BUT THAT IS NOT HOW I INTENT TO SPEND THE REST OF LIFE: PAYING FOR A DEBT I DIDN't CREATE. I didn't create that debt. My neighbor didn't create it. My friend in Texas didn't create it -- THE GOVERNMENT, with all its spending, did. :angry: I THINK: NOT~!

Third: president Bush's "No Child Left Behind".... I so strongly disagree with it. It lets schools who do not function up to scratch die. Why not change the way teachers are being trained? Who not improve the schools that are not functioning properly? Why not encourage community involvement? Why not fund schools through sales tax? Or increase the portion of the pie the schools get?

"No Child Left Behind" is the equivilant of... saying public education is hopeless. And inviting the totalitarian rule of privatized schools. In a way, it is also insulting the whole of America but weakening the whole in favor of the piece.

Reason, I feel, is what my government is seriously lacking. If the government had reason, it would work for banning all nuclear/mass destruction/biological warfare devices. If the government had reason, it would reduce the military in favor of civillian programs/ solutions. If my government had reason, it would unstick its nose from where it doesn't need to be. If my government had reason, it would treat everyone within and beyond its influence with DIGNITY and RESPECT.

Which brings me to Gay Marriage...
In short: they are citizens of this country. IF this is a country of tolerance, the Legislation WILL give them the rights they so desire. But this country is far from tolerant. Intolerance in America is a social norm. Just ask any decent history teacher and they will most likely acknowledge that.

:mad: In short, the Government is suffering from a severe case of irrationality and must be stopped/altered before it harms the human race and the planet any further.

It would seem that I have ranted for some time. (Mom asked me who I was typing to. I simply said I was talking about politics.) Government irrationality is one of the few things that manages to boil my under-developed Fe. Obviously I feel very strongly about the subject. I will welcome replies and questions.

Star Cannon.

[antireconciler]

It amuses me. I think to blame the US gov't is really just to blame the people.

The people of America, for example, think they can sucessfully ban objects like guns and drugs. Amusing huh? They should read more history. Or ban abortion or ban gay marriage. Heh, whatever.

Ban all those warfare devices? You mean ours? Are we pulling a France here? Careful not to be so idealistic that you loose your grounding.

You're pretty tolerant yourself aren't you?

I also think education is often undervalued at all levels if America is to lead economically.

[Star Cannon]

I meant ALL of the nuclear or biological or whatever mass destruction stuff EVERY country has.

You do have a point about the people.

I am tolerant of opinions but there are something things that I feel warrant a response of steel and swords.

[antireconciler]

The more countries that eliminate thier own weapons, the greater the advantage of the countries that have not done so becomes, and so, the greater the incentive NOT to truly eliminate thier stocks. It's a hundred thousand times easier to lie about it and get away with it. The countries that DID eliminate thier own stocks probably anticipated this and still have thier own wild cards.

[Claverhouse]

Second... why am I supposed to pay for the debt of my ancestors? The national debt is... OUTRAGEOUS! ABSOULTELY INTOLERABLE! It is not I, nor my neighbor, nor the person living across the street, who is deciding wher my parents tax dollars go. Why not just let the Government pay for it? Why not just let those who spend my parents money (I am fifteen) in the worst ways :rant: THEN EXPECT MY GENERATION to PAY FOR IT. Excuse me, BUT THAT IS NOT HOW I INTENT TO SPEND THE REST OF LIFE: PAYING FOR A DEBT I DIDN't CREATE. I didn't create that debt. My neighbor didn't create it. My friend in Texas didn't create it -- THE GOVERNMENT, with all its spending, did. :angry: I THINK: NOT~!

You think you've got it bad ? Not only are we in Britain still paying for our wars from 1690 on, especially the real biggie, WWI ( in effect we're paying for the war that destroyed civilisation; paying the cost of destroying civilisation so that we can live in the aftermath: nb: I think the Kaiser's Germany should have won ), and after that WWII and the loss of our power; but we still owe you Yanks masses of money every day for having supplied us as allies.

Dunno if the Soviets ever repaid any of the horrendous debts they built up to you for enabling them to win WWII, but I very much doubt it. ( Mind you both the USA & the USSR raped Germany and Middle Europe economically ( as well as literally ) post-war so extensively you think they could have regarded all debts as cancelled; which would have simplified matters ). Still, what the hell, it's just paper debt. A few years of high inflation and it won't matter...

Actually, the greatest villain of all was the late Ronnie Reagan: through good-housekeeping and stamping out welfare, his libertarian supply-side voodoo economic theory transformed a modest surplus into a Three Trillion Dollar deficit...


Claverhouse :ph34r:

[Johnny]

Dunno if the Soviets were able to raise the estimated 20 million people who lost their lives in that war from the dead either. Talk about your debts...

As for Ronnie, no one said Nuclear Defense System fantasies, Savings & Loan bailouts, and discount Iranian arms deals, to name a few gap-closure plans our government executed in the 80's, were cheap? Yep, in our democratic society, accountability falls on all of us and we have much to face.

Speaking of the 80's Claverhouse, how could Ronnie distract you so from Margaret Thatcher, chasing down Argentinian submarines on the run and dismantling socialism?

[Claverhouse]

Dunno if the Soviets were able to raise the estimated 20 million people who lost their lives in that war from the dead either. Talk about your debts...

Perhaps, but that was their fault as much as anyone else's: communism was not a rational system and never led to rational outcomes/


As for Ronnie, no one said Nuclear Defense System fantasies, Savings & Loan bailouts, and discount Iranian arms deals, to name a few gap-closure plans our government executed in the 80's, were cheap? Yep, in our democratic society, accountability falls on all of us and we have much to face.

Anti-communists weren't always the most rational of creatures either.

'In a disastrous fire in President Reagan's library both books were destroyed. And the real tragedy was that he hadn't finished colouring one' Jonathan Hunt 30 aug 1981.


Speaking of the 80's Claverhouse, how could Ronnie distract you so from Margaret Thatcher, chasing down Argentinian submarines on the run and dismantling socialism?

Aieeee ! Why do you speak of the accursed one who is yet undead ? Mind you, virtually all 20th century British politicians made vulgarity an art-form; from ( even ) Lloyd George to Baldwin to Churchill ( the worst of the lot ) to Wilson to Heath to Blair, but she is something else again. Not only corrupt but boastful with it. Blair's a nasty bit of work though, too.

[ To be clear: I'm not now, nor have I ever been, a socialist: but I believe in socialist methods and practice ].


regards


Claverhouse :ph34r:

[jittus rye]

Government is allowed to lack reason seeing as some people have conflicting beliefs and forms of reason. If it didn't lack reason the world would be out of control, civil war and war abroad constantly! If people and government behaved rationally they would know what the other was going to do before they did it, and I think there would be more fighting. Maybe I was a bit sarcastic, But isn't sarcasim a staple in the political battle chest? I'd have to say so. Go America! GO GO GO. YEAHH OMGGOMGO OGMG.

Vote Republican. (they don't lie to you, if they say their going to screw you, they screw you). Democrats screw you, AND lie about it (habitually). Republicans are cool too because they are all out with war. Yeah.. It makes for some fun news.

On a side note, I just wanted to see if anyone thought this was reasonable:

Annex the Carribean for more tourism profits. Annex Japan because it is basically ours, and kick all the Japanese people living there, out. Then we can pretend to be like a modern day Rome and Bully people around until we accidentally get ourselves nuked.

[Johnny]

Look for Nader on your ballot, if you're old enough to vote, and consider your options.

Edited for rant: :rant: :rant: :rant:
The slackdom and acceptance of the American people, the state-sponsored lottery dreams, the unwillingness of our country's leadership to publicly reveal any kind of forward-thinking expressions beyond "we've got to prepare for Al Qaeda's next terrorist attack!" and "just wait till democracy takes hold in the Middle East!" sickens me.

No single man, not even George W. Bush, may truly deserve any blame for the Saudi Arabian terrorists who hijacked our passenger jets and took the lives of several thousand people. But until our government displays the necessary transparency in their decisions to be fairly judged, and give the American people (the world!) the chance to be a real part of that decision making process, this the America we shall remain to be.

I pray that they know what they are doing, and I do love my country.

[Claverhouse]

Look for Nader on your ballot, if you're old enough to vote, and consider your options.

I don't know to which you were speaking, but Star Cannon's 15. I dunno when you're allowed to vote in your country: I should say 12 is reasonable since both the jews and the Romans considered a male adult at that age.

And that's not an option you're proffering, but a prescription. :D

Mind you, if I were American ( mind boggles ); and if I was old enough to vote; and if I didn't believe voting was a wicked system, I would certainly vote for Nader. Good chap. Plus it would beat up the duopoly who presently control you. :rofl:


Claverhouse :ph34r:

[Johnny]

We only have about 10% of the US population bothering to vote as it is with a duopoly. Too busy waiting for the latest lottery numbers, I suppose.

Just think how many potential voters were going to lose now that one of three candidates must be chosen, one who doesn't even pretend to look like the others? :D

[KentOhio]

The national debt's no big deal, just numbers on paper. Every country has it, and no one ever seriously expects any country to pay the money back. If countries payed back national debt, we'd have $trillions$ rolling in from everywhere.

If 2 or 3 parties aren't enough, study up on the government of Israel. They have around 30 to 40 political parties. What ends up happening is they don't have enough leaders in any one party to run the country. So they form coalitions with other parties that they hate, just to defeat the ones they hate more, and the country is once again split 50/50 between the 2 coalition groups.

On the subject of education, there are kids who don't want to learn, period. There's nothing you can do, other than stop glorifying and giving your money to the brainless rappers, actors, and and athletes who never went to school, whom these lazy kids look up to as gods.

Who ever said America has to be tolerant? I decide what I tolerate and don't tolerate. I have beliefs and opinions, and I'm not going to let anyone strap me down and say "We don't tolerate your intolerance."

[Johnny]

Sorry I deleted this post. There are some things I don't want to share when second thoughts arrive...

[Star Cannon]

You all have points. My point is this: something is seriously wrong.

As for the annexation of Japan... not a bad idea, but I don't think China would stand for it. They'd probably stamp their feet and denounce the U.S. in front of the U.N. and then the high ups in other countries would use this as an excuse to do whatever it is they've been itching to do blah, blah, blah.

I did think of the nuclear stockpile thing for some time and I really do think the best way is to just be done with it. Of course, assuming that the world isn't changing infront of our noses, Antireconcilor, I'd say you'd have a very good point. The circumstances are very different this time around. If this was two hundred years ago, I would not have bothred to say it because I'd probably get my head impaled on a pitch fork and my body scorched by torches.

As I tell my parents, "The world is changing." And it truely is. Why else did 9/11 happen? Or the revelation of the governments (both here and abroad) incompetence in handling Iraq?

But no matter. I'll bet two wet noodles that something will come along about either Bush or Kerry that will spur everyone to the pools in a rage not to let the other person be president. *snicker* Such is our society.

[jittus rye]

Oh don't mind me, I just like proposing silly ideas. But I think the United States shouldn't have pussy-footed around in the past, making other nations such strong competitors after their defeat. How about we give them some old technology next time take out a world power instead of top of the line stuff our companies aren't even implimenting yet.

[Claverhouse]

Oh don't mind me, I just like proposing silly ideas. But I think the United States shouldn't have pussy-footed around in the past, making other nations such strong competitors after their defeat. How about we give them some old technology next time take out a world power instead of top of the line stuff our companies aren't even implimenting yet.

Er, actually America is only so advanced and powerful today because it stole the patents for the massive technological advances made by Germany during the ( infamous ) 3rd Reich. The stuff coming out of there was so amazing, particularly during the later years of the war, it was about 50 years ahead of the rest of the world. Plus Operation Paperclip which brought over to America thousands of scientists, nazis, and nazi scientists ( there is a difference ) including the vile v. Braun. Certainly the USSR got a lot too, the MIGs and even the Kalashnikov were based on German designs, but communists never managed any advantage right if they could help it: too rigidly bound to their religious doctrines.

Like the Japanese, Americans have a applicative, not an inventive, genius.

Claverhouse :ph34r:

[jittus rye]

I am talking about how we gave everyone lots of money to make good stuff instead of just stealing good stuff and making it by ourselves.

[Johnny]

Like the Japanese, Americans have a applicative, not an inventive, genius.
Interesting. So, what, exactly, is the difference between application and invention?

Man, this question takes me back to, James Burke(?), who hosted Connections.

[Melody]

Claverhouse, you insulting bastard! What about Thomas Edison, motherfucker? lol j/k Anyway, you are applying the idea of invention to entire countries. >_> I do not think it exists past the individual.

I give credit entirely to Shigeru Miyamoto for inventing Super Mario Bros., not Japan.

[Claverhouse]

Like the Japanese, Americans have a applicative, not an inventive, genius.
Interesting. So, what, exactly, is the difference between application and invention?

I'm certainly not claiming this insight as my own, it's been noted for a very long time. Also, it may be taken as dismissive, while it isn't in the least: people play to their strengths.

Well, say, the invention of the modern camera is down to the French, and then the English: but the adaption of the instrument so that it was successively refined and made available to all was application; in which American capitalism and production weighed heavily.

The American use of an invention, exploiting all it's possibilities ( we'll ignore the fable of Westinghouse junking Tesla's scheme for free unlimited power... ), turning it through adaption into a number of ever-cheaper ( theoretically ) devices has been vital. But whether through education or nature some races are far more prone to fecund invention; either through intellect ( endless study and sifting of elements ) as with the Germans & Scots; or mathematical flair as with the Hungarians and jews and perhaps the Ancient Egyptians; or some other ability, just flair, like the French & ancient Greek or Chinese. The Romans had no great inventive ability compared to the Greeks, but their administrative and military capabilities made up for any deficency.


Claverhouse :ph34r:

[Claverhouse]

Claverhouse, you insulting bastard! What about Thomas Edison, motherfucker? lol j/k

Edison, although being one of the most unpleasant men in America, was a genius, but many of his inventions were thanks to others. Sometimes people like Tesla, sometimes poorly-paid assistants.



Anyway, you are applying the idea of invention to entire countries. >_> I do not think it exists past the individual.

I give credit entirely to Shigeru Miyamoto for inventing Super Mario Bros., not Japan.


No, ( & I spoke of races, not countries ): the jewish genius for music is well-documented ( I'm not speaking of some of them's quasi-domination of the music business, which is a business matter ). They have made a disproportionate contribution in invention there. ( Which makes up a bit for some of their occasional misdeeds { I'm no friend to Eretz Israel :ph34r: } ).


Claverhouse :ph34r:

[Melody]

I think you are confusing tendencies for truths.

[Melody]

It can be said Chinese are better at music than Englanders, but this is not because of race. It is because their language is tonal.

[Johnny]

And all this time I thought it was due to practice...

[Melody]

lol In a way it is. They just don't realize they get practice everytime they speak. I have not heard of Jewish musical inventions. I have heard of African-American ones, though. Rock, Jazz, Rap. Wait...African-Americans! Take that, Claverhouse!

[Johnny]

You do have a good point, Melody. Language is made up of many components. But for English, say, a statement and a question using the same words takes advantage of pitch in order to signify a "." or a "?". Same with German, my only quasi-second language.

Still, rhythm is awesome too, I must admit...and English works pretty darn well for rap, doesn't it?

[Melody]

Yes, practically perfectly. When I was younger, I wondered why there was no Japanese rap. Then I realized that just in talking normally, Japanese people can rhyme tighter than a rapper just by nature of the language. That is why there are no rhyming forms of poetry in Japanese. Instead, the beauty of a poem is gauged by its efficiency. That explains why the poem forms are all so short and tiny, such as the haiku.

Anyway, yeah. Just more uselessful info.

[Claverhouse]

Um, jewish Temple music led on to the Western RC church music: which in turn nurtured composition in the West. Jewish folk music is even now still vibrant ( although strongly intertwined with Eastern European stuff generally, zithers, gipsy stuff, etc. ( think of the violin themes in Young Frankenstein German/gipsy/Hungarian/jewish ). Israeli pop is quite separate from any other, although very assimilative of world music. There have been many jewish composers from Mendlesohn to the great operetta giants of Franz-Josef's later years. And an enormous number of soloists such as Yehudi Menuhin etc. In America you had Al Jolson, who started as a cantor.

And of course the German contribution to music is immense, both the simple folk tunes to Opera to Marches to Symphonies: in fact up to the end of the 19th century they were most appreciated as the musical powerhouse of Europe. And the Irish have always had great tunes too. Some races seem more gifted than others at music, just as the latin races, especially the Italians, are often gifted in the plastic arts.

Don't know Chinese music except the westernised versions, very pretty girls' voices, semi-pop, difficult to convey what I mean by that --- You know as Chau says in Off Centre.

I'm not that fond of jazz, except Dixieland & Bluegrass & New Orleans; and I never listen to rap. Sort of annoying. :D & and only the most violent rock satisfies me.


Claverhouse :ph34r:

[Star Cannon]

If English can be developed into something for ear training.... it would simplify things greatly.

I listen to all sorts of music, so far I like everything that sounds good. I'm also found of Bela Bartok, is any one else found of him?

[Johnny]

David Oistrakh is my all-time favorite violinist. The intonation, the vibrato, the dynamics, the strength and determination...I could go on and on. But it's more interesting just to listen to him play.

There's no doubt that music is inherited. But I don't hear "jewish" when I hear Mendelssohn. Maybe if I was Jewish I'd hear more, but I just hear music. The rest I leave to the musicologists.

[Melody]

Claverhouse, what I am trying to say is that you are generalizing. I do not think Chinese people are any better at music than Englanders. Maybe culturally, generalizations like these are true because of the environment in which the membership grows; but racially, I do not think so.

I was pointing out instances of American invention to be silly. They are not proof. And all those instances of Jewish invention are not proof of anythng, either. :D

[Claverhouse]

Bela Bartok: Dunno why, I've got a biography of him hidden away, but I can't actually remember ever hearing his music. I've sort of assumed he was like Bruckner ( whom I admire ) for some reason.

( If we're collecting useless information: upon the self-murder of the late Adolf, the regime played Bruckner, and not Wagner, through the loud-speakers of the mass street radios most continental countries used back then, and of course over the wireless radios. Since half a million people ( including the invaders very heavily ) were in the process of being slaughtered etc. over 18 days, at least they had music to die to ).



Claverhouse :ph34r

[ An alternate sig: I'd rather be a 12-yr-old with a panzerfaust defending Berlin than an Allied Field Marshal: Hell, I'd just rather be a 12-yr-old with a panzerfaust anyway ]

[Johnny]

I continue to be fascinated with Bartok's Hungarian Dances, though I haven't worked on them in a long time. Bartok did very nice work. Check him out if you can, even if it means lurking on Amazon for 1 min. soundclips.

[paladinoflunaria]

Politics is crap. The conflict will still be around long after we all die, so give it up. I disagree with the US and most of the West (if not all of it) on a philsophical level.