INTPs - revengeful or not?

[Kathara]

Curious - it seems like an INTJ trait.

[starla]

I just let it go. I'll put a note in that person's mental file, but it really won't get looked at unless they piss me off again. They'd need a pretty steady stream of transgressions before I permanently label them an enemy, but I'm still not putting any effort into revenge. Pissing someone else off does nothing to improve my situation.

[Dunearhp]

Revengeful? Apparently it is a word, albeit a clumsy sounding one.

Revenge generally requires a long term fixation. This can be detrimental to the normal balance of an INTP mind, where internal calm is a highly valued state.

I wouldn't call us forgiving, but seeking revenge exacts a personal toll that we would often be reluctant to accept.

Those are my thoughts, but I may be self projecting a bit here.

[rainfall]

No, kathara, you have sealed your doom. There will not be any forgiveness.

[Jennywocky]

I just let it go. I'll put a note in that person's mental file, but it really won't get looked at unless they piss me off again. They'd need a pretty steady stream of transgressions before I permanently label them an enemy, but I'm still not putting any effort into revenge.

Same strategy.

And even when they are labeled as an "enemy," I'm not out to get them, and if they change their interaction style with me for the positive, I will go with it... even if I don't particular like them anymore.

I just have little interest in "getting even."

[Ptah]

They must pay for their transgressions.

[Jasz]

forgetful and therefor forgiving

[attila_the_hunny]

If it's easy to do and doesn't take much effort, I'd do it on a whim. I can take a lot, and if it ever came to the point where I'd seek out revenge, they probably deserve.

[lbloom]

I tend to forgive, possibly too much. It usually stems from trying too hard to figure out why someone might have done something, rather than any real charitable spirit.

[Hexchild]

I voted "other" because the way I see it, forgiveness requires that there be some sort of blame to absolve through said forgiveness, to begin with.

Blame and guilt constitute a system for detemining and correcting mistakes so that they can be avoided in the future, but in my view this system is too crude, primitive and inflexible, and tends not to correspond very well with reality.

EDIT: And in case it's not obvious; No, I don't do revenge, either.

[Shades of Gray]

I don't do revenge. Yeah, I have people that have pissed me off in the past, but I tend to just shut them out, and not interact with them unless I have to.

If someone appears to be a detriment to the local system, then I will probably work to have them removed, but not out of any kind of revenge. Simply because it would be better for the group.

[sandwich]

I'm a very forgiving person, but my forgiving is not absolute. Like Starla, I'll put a sticky note in their mental file in case I get really pissed later on. I'm too lazy to exact revenge, but if I'm in a nasty mood I'll plan it out before I forget about it. I might tell nasty stories about them if it seems appropriate.

[Lurker]

Not exactly forgiving (will make a note), but sees revenge as a waste of time and energy. It doesn't change anything, so why bother?

[LastRailway]

I have to have really very strong feelings about something to think about revenge. Like, somebody physically hurting me or a person I care about.
But I couldn't say I am forgiving, I am ready to re-adjust my opinion on people in any given moment and if somebody bothers me that much that revenge could be a possibility, I usually make a mental note on how to treat these people in the future.

[Shoot!]

Revenge, for me, can be very satisfying. Forgiving is definately the higher road, and I feel better after I forgive, but getting revenge gives me a kind of rush.

[Spartan26]

Only if it's really bad will I plot, then play it out in my head, have a good laugh and I'm one step closer to forgiveness. Hard not to sometimes keep the mental tallies but overall I've got better things to occupy my mind with. I generally don't have a problem forgiving and moving on.

Another thing is I generally don't have to see people once I've been wronged by them. So it's not like I walk past the guy in the office who stabbed me in the back to get the corner office while I'm on my way to my cube. It somehow manages to where I don't have to see the offending party. I'm perfectly happy with this.

[Dansker]

I'm not particuarly interested in revenge.

I am often not slow to forget, but revenge doesn't really seem to get anyone anywhere.

[Faust06]

Depending on the circumstances, I'll either be forgiving, or just unforgiving.. revenge might be taken if there's a good opportunity, and isn't over-the-top.

[Madrigal]

I don't believe in revenge, I only believe in justice.

[Ptah]

I don't believe in revenge, I only believe in justice.

One is a means to get to the other.

[Karl]

One is a means to get to the other.

No.

Revenge implies hurting someone in its own sake. You can say it's "justice" because people who hurt others deserve to be hurt too, but I think the world has a bit too much hurt already without us hurting others because they're hurting others.

Sometimes punishments are necessary, but it's only to make a future scenerio more likely, and not some sort of warped desire to hurt others to make the wrongs of the past less hurtful.

[Ptah]

No.

Revenge implies hurting someone in its own sake. You can say it's "justice" because people who hurt others deserve to be hurt too, but I think the world has a bit too much hurt already without us hurting others because they're hurting others.

Sometimes punishments are necessary, but it's only to make a future scenerio more likely, and not some sort of warped desire to hurt others to make the wrongs of the past less hurtful.

The purpose of revenge, to me, is "eye for an eye". They hurt me, I hurt them. It's not about making anything "less hurtful", its about making me feel good and them bad. They start it, I'll finish it; I don't start it.

Saying that "the world" has "a bit too much hurt already" is meaningless in the context at hand. Somebody punches me in the gut, I'm going to shoot them in the kneecap; damned be the world if that introduces imbalance. If the mankind can't get by with people reacting righteously to unprovoked wrongs done against them then mankind doesn't deserve to exist, and it's not the fault of those who strike back.

[firch]

No, they are not worth thinking about.

[mancroft]

I and the public know
What all schoolchildren learn,
Those to whom evil is done
Do evil in return.

W.H. AUDEN, "September 1, 1939"

[Ptah]

I and the public know
What all schoolchildren learn,
Those to whom evil is done
Do evil in return.

W.H. AUDEN, "September 1, 1939"

There's a word missing in the last part.

"Do evil justly in return."

[pangolin]

If I could just hit a Revenge button and have justice automatically done to them, I would do so without hesitation. If it requires work or emotional investment, I might contemplate a few things and add 'notes' to their 'file' but generally refrain from the effort necessary, as that is wasted effort that is not benefiting me or anyone I care about.

[starla]

The purpose of revenge, to me, is "eye for an eye". They hurt me, I hurt them. It's not about making anything "less hurtful", its about making me feel good and them bad.

For making hurting someone to make me feel good, I'd have to be operating on a really base level. Like, maybe if they molested and killed my kid or something, but otherwise I just don't see myself abandoning rationality to take revenge on someone. Making someone hurt would just make them hurt and be wasted effort for me. A net negative for both of us. What's the point?

[Sojourner]

For making hurting someone to make me feel good, I'd have to be operating on a really base level. Like, maybe if they molested and killed my kid or something, but otherwise I just don't see myself abandoning rationality to take revenge on someone. Making someone hurt would just make them hurt and be wasted effort for me. A net negative for both of us. What's the point?

Punishment?

[Park]

I mostly just get pissed at people - bitch for a while and then it's out of my system. Old negative feelings I carry around are mainly attached to situations and not people.

[bonsai]

To quote Sid the Sloth:

'Ah, you know me, I'm too lazy to hold a grudge.'

http://img153.imageshack.us/img153/2043/sidthesloth9cm.jpg

[Ptah]

Punishment?

Justice.

[starla]

Punishment?

If punishment implies that the offending party is going to be rehabilitated and not offend again, then sure, punishment is fine. And if you want to take action to remove the person from society so he/she can't offend again, then by all means, do so. But nothing about revenge implies either of these things. The point is to make yourself feel better by hurting someone else, and most people, when exacting revenge, could care less if the offending party was rehabilitated or not.


Justice.

Two wrongs don't make a right. They just make two wrongs.

[Ptah]

The point is to make yourself feel better by hurting someone else, and most people, when exacting revenge, could care less if the offending party was rehabilitated or not.

Let me clarify my conditions for seeking revenge. A) I've been wronged B) I didn't deserve it (I didn't start it).


Two wrongs don't make a right. They just make two wrongs.

I repeat. I didn't start it, but I'll finish it. What's the alternative, roll over and take it? Allow wrong to run rampant and unchecked?

[starla]

What's the alternative, roll over and take it? Allow wrong to run rampant and unchecked?
Get on with your life.

[Ptah]

Get on with your life.

By and large, in many cases, that is the only practical option. That is, circumstances do not lend themselves to exacting revenge without bringing all manner of negative repercussions back at me in the immediate, observable context at hand. But in those situations where there's a "clear shot"; I'm going to take it, and I'll be justified in doing so. And to the extent the wrong is wrong, I'll go so far as to plot my revenge to see realization at some future time, when the context is (by accident or design) more clear of consequential backlash.

I would "live my life" otherwise, if only that others would just live theirs, too.

[starla]

I still don't see why this makes you feel good. It does nothing to improve your own situation, and does nothing to undo the wrong done to you. You just drag out your anguish by hanging on to it.

[Ptah]

I still don't see why this makes you feel good. It does nothing to improve your own situation, and does nothing to undo the wrong done to you. You just drag out your anguish by hanging on to it.

Anguish? No. The feelings of justice at hand, of spite, revenge, comeuppance, punishment, damnation, and so on -- I am not hanging on to them, they sustain and propel and me.

That it makes me feel good is icing on the cake. The goal is to make them feel bad, to make them feel as I have felt or worse, to end the game that they have forcibly dragged me into.

[starla]

Anguish? No. The feelings of justice at hand, of spite, revenge, comeuppance, punishment, damnation, and so on -- I am not hanging on to them, they sustain and propel and me.

Why?


That it makes me feel good is icing on the cake. The goal is to make them feel bad, to make them feel as I have felt or worse, to end the game that they have forcibly dragged me into.

You've dragged yourself into it, no one forced you. Are you not in control of yourself?

[Ptah]

Why?

Why? Because the alternative is to allow it to be anguish, a depressive state to say the least. Spite motivates, spite impels, spite sustains and begets action. Not to mention, spite (properly anchored) begets revenge, begets justice, begets closure and feel-good in the end. Anguish lingers, depresses and deterioriates.



You've dragged yourself into it, no one forced you. Are you not in control of yourself?

Look, this gets to my definition of a "wrong" done to me worthy of revenge-seeking. Suffice to say, if I'm seeking revenge, I didn't deserve it, it was an intentional act against me, and it hurt me. In that sense, I am not the initiator, and my choices reduce to acting or not in response. And among my choices of action (as against inaction) reduce to fight or flight. No good comes from my flight -- not for me, not for the instigator, and not for the rest of society at large, if that's at hand. But to fight, to exact revenge, to bring justice to the instigator -- that is good for me, bad for them, and good for society at large (properly done, my revenge will preclude them from bothering anyone ever again).

[djm]

They must pay for their transgressions.

Absolutely.

Forgiveness is for losers, look what happened to Jesus. :)