Mis-typlogy

[Lee]

I was thinking, it may be helpful if we could list common mistakes that are made when typing others using MBTI, Enneagram, Oldhams Personality Portrait's, whatever you want. We can just bang our heads together and explain what mistakes can be made and how to avoid them.

I'll go first.

1. Extroversion is Not Always Sociable

A common mistype that has it's roots in a misunderstanding of priorities and the fact that the word "extrovert" and "sociable" have become linked in everyday language. The problem arises with an extrovert who is placed in a scenario in which they have no interest or thier skills are of no use may appear introverted, when infact it is simply that thier extroversion seeks different means of expression. Extroversion can be expressed not just to other people but also to objects or devices in the enviroment, for example this later form of extroversion which could well be acossaited with an ENTP and can be mis-interpreted as introvesion. Becuase of the nature of this unsocial form of extoversion it can be difficult to observe and allows an easy mistype to be made.

2. The Thinker Who Knows Emotions But is Not Controlled by Them

I believe a mistype can be made here and I believe there are 2 different varieties as well. To be a T (thinker) one simply has to value logic above emotional considerations when forming an opinion or course of action, well it seems to me that some people are devoid of almost any emotion, indeed there are disorders acossiated with such conditions and these people are fairly easy to classify as T.
However the problem rises within an individual who is very aware of his or hers emotions and very responsive and understanding of others feelings but yet still values logic above all else (or maybe alogic, but lets not get that going). I could hypothosize that this scenario is most likely to occur under certain conditions, A genetic predisposition towards strong feeling's and a social early childhood (with mother and/or siblings) which would develop empathic skills coupled with an enviroment which demands logic, possibly from one of the parents or due to an childhood trauma of some kind.
The second form of mis-type caused in relation to T/F is the person who's T pretends to be an F, what I mean by this is somebody who uses logic and knowledge gained from reading or study to behave like an F under certain situations, a T masquerading as an F you might say.

3. The SJ's who don't conform

It is generally considered that SJ's or Gaurdian temperaments are conformists they create, control and administer the rules and common social customs of society and that SJ's easily assimmilate and become part of a collective custom designed to fulfill there needs and desires. The confusion of typing correctly primarily stems from the ESTJ, ESTJ's like rules, regulations, organisation and applying these beleifs to not only thier enviroment but also those around them, the problem is that as far as the ESTJ is concerned they should be the one creating and applying these rules and can resent others trying to do the sae to them, ESTJ's wish to be top dog and often find themselves in positions of control. However ESTJ's can easily be mistaken for SP's (Artisans) for thier non-conformism when they are provoked into a powerplay with a superior, this can cause certain mis-understandings as to the driving force behind their behaviour as it is not fuelled by the same desires as it would be in an Artisan.


Please add further and I may add them to this post as we go along (for organisational purposes).

oh...and please try to stay at least somewhat on topic :)

[Geoff]

Yes, that is an interesting point.
Because the words are so closely linked, people assume they are.. the antisocial behaviour may follow being introverted but the two do not mean the same thing (and vice versa for Extroversion).
A good example is a 'quiet' person who talks externally in a group when asked a question. Say you say "what is your favourite colour" and without hesitation they quietly voice a monologue "now, what would my favourite colour be, I would say red". That is extroversion - expressing in a group situation outside of the head. Yet if the person does not often speak in this group, it could be interpreted as introversion. They may just be shy/self conscious - a different thing altogether.
Can be difficult to spot the extroverted expression from an introvert throwing distractor comments while they think things through. Nobody said it would be easy!
-Geoff

[Boneca]

Probably the most common is that Feelers don't think/Thinkers don't feel, when it in fact has nothing to do with either thoughts or feelings.

The difference is that Thinkers make decisions based on logic, whereas Feelers make decisions based on how they affect people. Both are rational!

[CreativeChaos]

Probably the most common is that Feelers don't think/Thinkers don't feel, when it in fact has nothing to do with either thoughts or feelings.

The difference is that Thinkers make decisions based on logic, whereas Feelers make decisions based on how they affect people. Both are rational!

Quite. I totally agree with the Extroversion statements made. People in discussion groups I am in will go "Nah! No way!" when I tell them I'm an introvert. That's becuase it is only in places like that where the topic is extremely interesting to me and I know a lot about it that I am quite the blabbermouth. Otherwise, I am generally quiet and reserved.

It is truly the T/F distinction that brought me here. I think that is the most confusing of all of the functions. And ther is a lot of confusion over it. Feeling is related to emotion, when Jung did not mean emotion when he defined it. Yet Feeling types do tend to treat or use emotion in a different wa than Thinking types. Feeling types do tend to use logic in a different way than Thinking types. And simple logic is not what the Thinking function is all about. Thinking types can be illogical. It's what you utilize most often and HOW you utilize it. But getting down to the nit-gritty of delineating and understanding the stuff at a deep level is damn confusing.

[Edmond Zedo]

Probably the most common is that Feelers don't think/Thinkers don't feel, when it in fact has nothing to do with either thoughts or feelings.

The difference is that Thinkers make decisions based on logic, whereas Feelers make decisions based on how they affect people. Both are rational!
This reminds me. Regarding dominant functions, T and F folks are considered rational types, while N and S are irrational types. The world is a slight more transparent to me now.

[Geoff]

This reminds me. Regarding dominant functions, T and F folks are considered rational types, while N and S are irrational types. The world is a slight more transparent to me now.

T and F are both rational? and N and S are irrational? That's a weird categorisation.

Whatever type you are you are both rational and irrational? How fun!

-Geoff

[callie]

:rofl: Geoff!

[cjs55]

This is an interesting point and one I think I have alot of experience with. I believe a friend of mine is an ENFP, but he is unquestionably extremely shy in most situations. However he is extremely people-centric, his whole life revolves his web of friendships and relationships. Due to this and some other evidence that I've obtained from knowing him for so long, I think he's simply a very timid and shy ENFP. It may be weird, but I don't think shyness and a quiet nature in social settings leads inherently to being an introvert. My ENFP friends rarely says anything, but absolutely loves to listen in on conversation and will listen intently to my philosophical discussions for hours without saying a word. He's a very interesting character...

[callie]

Maybe he is an INFP though? relationship orientated but able to listen more than to speak.....

[waxwing]

I was thinking, it may be helpful if we could list common mistakes that are made when typing others using MBTI, Enneagram, Oldhams Personality Portrait's, whatever you want. We can just just bang our heads together and explain what mistakes can be made and how to avoid them.


Hm.

Don't trust the test. If results read something like, "Your type is ENTP" with no explanation or nuanced case study, then seek another opinion. More importantly, realize that in every life situation, a new facet of personality may emerge. Perhaps, a new personality type will never emerge, but you may become more aware of patterns (personally and cosmologically), only serving to strengthen your character/fine-tune your personality. Even diverging from supposed patterns is helpful.

[cjs55]

He doesn't have the INFP traits of being in his own head. I think intorverts usually go off into their own world of thought occasionally, at least INs do. And he doesn't seem to ever in social situations, while I do all the time. When we are talking its fairly common for him to just assume I'm paying attention when half of the time I'm running through some thoughts in my head instead of listening. To my knowledge, he never does that.

[CreativeChaos]

This reminds me. Regarding dominant functions, T and F folks are considered rational types, while N and S are irrational types. The world is a slight more transparent to me now.

Okay, you guys, posting below this. You may be joking, as EZ is, BUT. Jung regarded F and T as rational only because a certain rationale is utilized in both. And I assume EZ was referring to T/F folks who have T/F for thier Dominate function. N and S are considered irrational, only because they are perceiving functions and there is not rationale used in these. One only "brings in" information, either from the senses or "inner perception".


And YEAH! A single person can easily be illogical and logcal. :p

[cjs55]

lol you got a emoticon under your avatar after all...

that is almost disturbing.

[callie]

One of the big pbl of pers. tests is that
1. depending on your mood, you will answer this or that. If you are a borderline, you may switch from one type to another because of that.
2. They are alot of questions but some questions mean something to you depending on your experiences, culture and so on.... and not the same to your friend, neighboor.....

And you might answer something that is accurate for you, or when you answer it, but does not reveal your personality, but rather either your mood, your education, your exp.... That's why typing people is interesting but should be relativise!

[Lee]

This is an interesting point and one I think I have alot of experience with. I believe a friend of mine is an ENFP, but he is unquestionably extremely shy in most situations. However he is extremely people-centric, his whole life revolves his web of friendships and relationships. Due to this and some other evidence that I've obtained from knowing him for so long, I think he's simply a very timid and shy ENFP. It may be weird, but I don't think shyness and a quiet nature in social settings leads inherently to being an introvert. My ENFP friends rarely says anything, but absolutely loves to listen in on conversation and will listen intently to my philosophical discussions for hours without saying a word. He's a very interesting character...

I have read that ENFP's are more prone to developing paranoia out of fear of rejection and so retreat into a more introverted state to avoid confirming thier worst fear's.

[cjs55]

Thats why its better for people who both know you well, and know the MB system well, to just type you without any test taking involved.


Gender: The best one!

Callie is an odd name for a male! ; )

[Architectonic]

It is truly the T/F distinction that brought me here. I think that is the most confusing of all of the functions. And ther is a lot of confusion over it. Feeling is related to emotion, when Jung did not mean emotion when he defined it. Yet Feeling types do tend to treat or use emotion in a different wa than Thinking types. Feeling types do tend to use logic in a different way than Thinking types. And simple logic is not what the Thinking function is all about. Thinking types can be illogical. It's what you utilize most often and HOW you utilize it. But getting down to the nit-gritty of delineating and understanding the stuff at a deep level is damn confusing.

Pretty much.. F doesn't necessarily imply a reliance on emotions, but simply a different set of values to guide the decision making process.

[callie]

Callie is an odd name for a male! ; )


Are you machist? :rant: :smooch:

[CreativeChaos]

He doesn't have the INFP traits of being in his own head. I think intorverts usually go off into their own world of thought occasionally, at least INs do. And he doesn't seem to ever in social situations, while I do all the time. When we are talking its fairly common for him to just assume I'm paying attention when half of the time I'm running through some thoughts in my head instead of listening. To my knowledge, he never does that.

I never do that either in social situations. It would be considered rude to me. I listen with intent to anything anyone says. It's because I want to be seen as caring. The fact that he listens intently and doesn't talk much is to me the sign of an INFP. INFPs are VERY people oriented as well. I wait until I am out of sight of other people before going into my head. Does he spend a lot of time daydreaming? Does he spend a lot of time socializing? Does he LOVE parties and lots of people? Remember Es are energized by being with people, Is are energized by quiet time.

[cjs55]

I have read that ENFP's are more prone to developing paranoia out of fear of rejection and so retreat into a more introverted state to avoid confirming thier worst fear's.

Absolutely correct, this would be my theory on my friend whether I knew about MB or not. He is so afraid of someone not liking him in any sense. He gets very very deeply offended if I were to suggest that he was too polite in a situation (which he often is)

[Lee]

Hm.

Don't trust the test. If results read something like, "Your type is ENTP" with no explanation or nuanced case study, then seek another opinion. More importantly, realize that in every life situation, a new facet of personality may emerge. Perhaps, a new personality type will never emerge, but you may become more aware of patterns (personally and cosmologically), only serving to strengthen your character/fine-tune your personality. Even diverging from supposed patterns is helpful.

I take your point waxwing and fully agree with it, one of my goals in this thread is to highlight the many flaws within typology and also to help resolve some of them if possible.

[callie]

I agree with you CC!!!!

[CreativeChaos]

lol you got a emoticon under your avatar after all...

that is almost disturbing.

ALMOST! :angry:

[Architectonic]

One of the big pbl of pers. tests is that
1. depending on your mood, you will answer this or that. If you are a borderline, you may switch from one type to another because of that.
2. They are alot of questions but some questions mean something to you depending on your experiences, culture and so on.... and not the same to your friend, neighboor.....

And you might answer something that is accurate for you, or when you answer it, but does not reveal your personality, but rather either your mood, your education, your exp.... That's why typing people is interesting but should be relativise!

I believe that suggests a flaw in the test, rather than a flaw in the theory.

But I agree that there is a significant degree of ambiguity in many of the questions in some tests and this can mean that your answers are altered based on experiences, culture etc...

[cjs55]

Hmm CC. He could go either way in the energized part. He spends time alone for sure, but he never seems to get tired of people when they are around. I am ALWAYS the one asking to leave the party if he is the driver, never ever him.

I really think that the description of ENFP at typelogic.com fits him better than the description of INFP, but it is certainly a possibility that I could be mistaken. When I had him take a couple tests online, he came out ENFP on all of them, but it was borderline and those tests don't tell you anything definite anyways.

[Edmond Zedo]

Okay, you guys, posting below this. You may be joking, as EZ is, BUT. Jung regarded F and T as rational only because a certain rationale is utilized in both. And I assume EZ was referring to T/F folks who have T/F for thier Dominate function. N and S are considered irrational, only because they are perceiving functions and there is not rationale used in these. One only "brings in" information, either from the senses or "inner perception".
Right, except I wasn't joking. Was Jung joking too?

[callie]

ALMOST! :angry:
:rofl:



Oh and by the way, people here are so use that i am not serious in my treads that they don't even pay attention when i write something serious!!! :rant: :shock:
see page 2! This was serious, from me anyway... I know it sounds NF and you won't agree blablabla.... But this is true...and proven! :whistle:

[cjs55]

ALMOST!

Wait, you wanted it to be completely disturbing!?

[CreativeChaos]

I agree with you CC!!!!

Gee Thanks Callie!!!!!! :D Yeayyyyyy!!!!! :cheers:



Uhhh... Agree with what? :huh: :smooch:

[cjs55]

Are you machist?

I think you are asking something else, but I just get this silly thought that you are asking if I'm a masochist because you are going to beat me after that comment!

[Geoff]

Yes, I presume it was a French attempt at male chauvinist pig / sexist (with a base in Macho).

-Geoff

[Lee]

Stay on topic people! :angry:

[cjs55]

I thought so as well Geoff.

Sorry Lee I'm particularly P today =p

[CreativeChaos]

Wait, you wanted it to be completely disturbing!?

I wanted to be Quintessencially Fathomless, which is about the same thing.


HAAA!!!! The pure essence of the bottomless pit of who the hell knows? :devil: THAT disturbing enough? :devil:

Edit: :rofl: DAmn, I don't even know how to spell my name.

[callie]

I think you are asking something else, but I just get this silly thought that you are asking if I'm a masochist because you are going to beat me after that comment!

No sorry, i meant macho!! :blink:


Gee Thanks Callie!!!!!! :D Yeayyyyyy!!!!! :cheers:



Uhhh... Agree with what? :huh: :smooch:

That he is an INFP! i diagnosed him INFP just before too!!! :smooch:

[Geoff]

Stay on topic people! :angry:

INTPs, please listen to the speaker, follow the rules and dont go often on a tangent.

Yep, I can see that happening.

-Geoff

[callie]

Yes, I presume it was a French attempt at male chauvinist pig / sexist (with a base in Macho).

-Geoff
yes, thanks Geoff! you get very good at reading my thoughts and translating them into english!! :D :smooch:

[cjs55]

THAT disturbing enough?

I'm shaking!!

...

mainly because my room is cold and I didn't notice until now =p

And I just woke up so I've got no clothes on 0_o

[callie]

INTPs, please listen to the speaker, follow the rules and dont go often on a tangent.

Yep, I can see that happening.

-Geoff


i first stayed on the topic, but noone paid attention anyway.... so..... :angry:
Once i was serious! :angry:

[Lee]

INTPs, please listen to the speaker, follow the rules and dont go often on a tangent.

Yep, I can see that happening.

-Geoff

It's an uphill struggle this one... :banghead: and I know I am just as bad

[CreativeChaos]

No sorry, i meant macho!! :blink:



That he is an INFP! i diagnosed him INFP just before too!!! :smooch:


Ohh!! Right!!! Yeah, I think so. It's interesting how and E can be diognosed as an I, because he has developed a paranoia?

How can an E, act so much like an I, yet be an E?

(Getting back on topic :D )

[Geoff]

What was the topic again?

Oh yes, mistypology. Ok, here's one. The fact that people may answer questions the way they want to either a) try and work out the system or b) because they think they better sound the way they should (if it is a work test of which there are so many) or c) because they want to be thought of as a particular type.
Could that be disturbing the true statistics on personality types?

-Geoff

[cjs55]

How can an E, act so much like an I, yet be an E?

because at his base, he's a people idealist, not a fuzzy teddybear idealist like you are!

[callie]

Ohh!! Right!!! Yeah, I think so. It's interesting how and E can be diognosed as an I, because he has developed a paranoia?

How can an E, act so much like an I, yet be an E?

(Getting back on topic :D )

So back to the topic... This is a concret case: it shows how people can mistype someone : like he is paranoid, so he is E :D

[CreativeChaos]

I'm shaking!!

...

mainly because my room is cold and I didn't notice until now =p

And I just woke up so I've got no clothes on 0_o


Ohhhhhh!!!!Yeaaayyyyy!!!! WoWWWWWW!!! PIC!!!PIC!!! I WANTA SEE PIC!!!

:D



DAmn, my home computer is so slow, so my posts are lagging far behind. Pooh! :angry:

[cjs55]

So back to the topic... This is a concret case: it shows how people can mistype someone : like he is paranoid, so he is E
No, he's an ENFP and they often get extremely timid because of their paranoia!

[CreativeChaos]

INTPs, please listen to the speaker, follow the rules and dont go often on a tangent.

Yep, I can see that happening.

-Geoff

Haaa! I am NOT INTP, Geoff, so does that mean I can stay off topic? :devil: Heh! :devil:

[Architectonic]

T and F are both rational? and N and S are irrational? That's a weird categorisation.

Whatever type you are you are both rational and irrational? How fun!

-Geoff

I believe this only applies in Zedo's case. :ph34r:

Cmon, if we change his wording a little, from "types" to "preferences" and realize that the N and S are just "irrational" methods of perception and the T and F are the "rational" methods of judgement, then it almost makes sense....

[cjs55]

Ohhhhhh!!!!Yeaaayyyyy!!!! WoWWWWWW!!! PIC!!!PIC!!! I WANTA SEE PIC!!!

We can't derail this into another sexual related thread, it simply cannot be allowed!!




DAmn, my home computer is so slow, so my posts are lagging far behind. Pooh!
So do you usually get so many posts a day at work? ; )

[Architectonic]

Haaa! I am NOT INTP, Geoff, so does that mean I can stay off topic? :devil: Heh! :devil:

Uh no.

And no guy is going to show you a pic of them naked when they were cold.

[Swift]

On topic:

Some people are just not honest to themselves when taking a test, eg thinking they are orderly when they are not, etc...

I would never rely on test results alone. I always try to figure out the different letters one by one and then I compare the person in question with a few profiles. You can also use temperament theory as a supplemental test.

Also, a lot of mistyping can happen because you don't know a person well enough, or only know him in a few limited environments.

Swift

[CreativeChaos]

because at his base, he's a people idealist, not a fuzzy teddybear idealist like you are!

NO, I'm a people idealist, also. I idealize everything! What's the difference?

[callie]

On topic:

Some people are just not honest to themselves when taking a test, eg thinking they are orderly when they are not, etc...

I would never rely on test results alone. I always try to figure out the different letters one by one and then I compare the person in question with a few profiles. You can also use temperament theory as a supplemental test.

Also, a lot of mistyping can happen because you don't know a person well enough, or only know him in a few limited environments.

Swift


I agree too with that... Some internal/external factors might lead to "mistypisation" (huh! does the word exist? :huh: )

[CreativeChaos]

On topic:

Some people are just not honest to themselves when taking a test, eg thinking they are orderly when they are not, etc...

I would never rely on test results alone. I always try to figure out the different letters one by one and then I compare the person in question with a few profiles. You can also use temperament theory as a supplemental test.

Also, a lot of mistyping can happen because you don't know a person well enough, or only know him in a few limited environments.Swift


This is true Swift. I tested as an ENFP at first, because I WISHED I was an ENFP. I hate being shy. Being a people person AND being shy is the PITS. :angry:

[Lee]

There is also the problem of an SJ (Gaurdian) who grows up in a household of NF's (Idealists) or NT's (Rationals), as guardians naturally take on the roles expected of them, especially ISFJ's and need to conform to what people want of them this combination may create some very perculiar Gaurdians running around behaving simiraly to NF's or NT's

[cjs55]

Damn you CC! Stop trying to wreck my understanding of the world!

[callie]

NO, I'm a people idealist, also. I idealize everything! What's the difference?

Still agree with you CC!!

[callie]

There is also the problem of an SJ (Gaurdian) who grows up in a household of NF's (Idealists) or NT's (Rationals), as guardians naturally take on the roles expected of them, especially ISFJ's and need to conform to what people want of them this combination may create some very perculiar Gaurdians running around behaving simiraly to NF's or NT's


I did not think of that, but that's a good point!

[CreativeChaos]

Damn you CC! Stop trying to wreck my understanding of the world!

Hee! :devil:


Now you are an ENFP, right Callie?

[Architectonic]

On the whole EN thing, I still do believe that ENs on the whole do tend to be a little less social/socially adept than their ES counterparts.

[cjs55]

I refuse to believe that the only difference between ENFP and INFP is that ENFPs are a more outgoing version of INFPs. This is simply not the case with any other type, the E usually results in an entirely different way of comprehending the world just like every other function could.

[callie]

Hee! :devil:


Now you are an ENFP, right Callie?


Yes,you did not get it? :blink:

[callie]

I refuse to believe that the only difference between ENFP and INFP is that ENFPs are a more outgoing version of INFPs. This is simply not the case with any other type, the E usually results in an entirely different way of comprehending the world just like every other function could.


Look at the def. of Geoff or... don't remember... Intr. tend to listen more and speak less or speak after thinking... whereas Extr. might seen as impulsive, they act/speak and then think...
So you're friend might be a I

[CreativeChaos]

I refuse to believe that the only difference between ENFP and INFP is that ENFPs are a more outgoing version of INFPs. This is simply not the case with any other type, the E usually results in an entirely different way of comprehending the world just like every other function could.

Yeah. But the difference is SO minute. Really! I have known ENFPs and the main differenc HAS been Extroversion. Otherwise we are SO much alike.

ENFPs are Ne, Fi

INFPs are Fi, Ne

It is VERY close.

[Architectonic]

There is also the problem of an SJ (Gaurdian) who grows up in a household of NF's (Idealists) or NT's (Rationals), as guardians naturally take on the roles expected of them, especially ISFJ's and need to conform to what people want of them this combination may create some very perculiar Gaurdians running around behaving simiraly to NF's or NT's

Maybe when they are younger, but hardly throughout their whole life. I mean as soon as they become a bit more aware of the outside world, they will likely realize and seek a different (more ISFJ in this case) direction.

[Architectonic]

This is true Swift. I tested as an ENFP at first, because I WISHED I was an ENFP. I hate being shy. Being a people person AND being shy is the PITS. :angry:

And I know an ENFP who wishes they were more introverted. Perhaps you'd like to trade?

[cjs55]

Hmm, let me explain this more simply:

His entire world revolves around what other people think of him. Does that sound like an INFP to you?

[cjs55]

I'm out of here, time to take a shower and put on some clothes (sorry CC) ; )

[Architectonic]

I refuse to believe that the only difference between ENFP and INFP is that ENFPs are a more outgoing version of INFPs. This is simply not the case with any other type, the E usually results in an entirely different way of comprehending the world just like every other function could.

I wouldn't say entirely different.

So which other type (besides INTP) do you relate most with?

For me it is the ENTP so.....

[CreativeChaos]

Yes,you did not get it? :blink:

Yeah, I had looked at your profile once, and just looked at in again. I seemed to have recalled someone say something about you being an ESFP, but I think they were joking.


YYYYYEEEAAAYYYY an ENFP!!!!! I have some company!!! :cheers: Maybe these INTPs won't see me as so incredibly off the wall now. :D

[Architectonic]

Hmm, let me explain this more simply:

His entire world revolves around what other people think of him. Does that sound like an INFP to you?

Its hard to say, I mean all NFs tend to care what other people think of them, but there still is the possibility of ENFP in my opinion, we just don't know him well enough to say...

[CreativeChaos]

I'm out of here, time to take a shower and put on some clothes (sorry CC) ; )

Can I help? :D

[CreativeChaos]

Hmm, let me explain this more simply:

His entire world revolves around what other people think of him. Does that sound like an INFP to you?

YEEEEEEESSSSSSSS!!!!!!!!!TOTAAALLLLYYYY!!!! I CANNOT EMPHASISE that enough.

YEEESSSSSS!!!!!! MY GOD YES! 8O

[Architectonic]

What was the topic again?

Oh yes, mistypology. Ok, here's one. The fact that people may answer questions the way they want to either a) try and work out the system or b) because they think they better sound the way they should (if it is a work test of which there are so many) or c) because they want to be thought of as a particular type.
Could that be disturbing the true statistics on personality types?

-Geoff

Well it depends on under what circumstances the tests are under. There certainly is the possibility that in a workplace testing circumstance then some people may manipulate their answers to get a particular result.

In other circumstances, only those who have particular personality traits (N for example) will actively seek out these types of tests further messing up the statistics.

[Lee]

Maybe when they are younger, but hardly throughout their whole life. I mean as soon as they become a bit more aware of the outside world, they will likely realize and seek a different (more ISFJ in this case) direction.

But once an ISFJ has become part of a group they are likely to do what ever they can to remain part of that group and they generally fear change and so if they mix in those circles thry may never leave them, as I said creating a few slightly odd Guardians (ISFJ's in perticular) and causing difficulty in typing them. I speak partly from direct experience with my ISFJ sister who is currently living her life in a manner somehwhat resembling an INTJ or INFJ because this is the role she feels people expect from her, she can fake a good N simply because she has a very good memory, she can know many answer's without really understanding many of them.

[CreativeChaos]

Well it depends on under what circumstances the tests are under. There certainly is the possibility that in a workplace testing circumstance then some people may manipulate their answers to get a particular result.

In other circumstances, only those who have particular personality traits (N for example) will actively seek out these types of tests further messing up the statistics.

Well, I my ISTJ friends and mother were very happy to oblige with the test. They tend to have more problem with it than Ns though. Thier concrete thinking leads thme to interpret the questions with, But I'm this way here, and that way there, and I keep saying answer as you are generally and at home,not at work. But I have to repeat that often. I really have to guide them through the test wheras, Ns just "get it" and take it and that's it.

[Geoff]

Well, I my ISTJ friends and mother were very happy to oblige with the test. They tend to have more problem with it than Ns though. Thier concrete thinking leads thme to interpret the questions with, But I'm this way here, and that way there, and I keep saying answer as you are generally and at home,not at work. But I have to repeat that often. I really have to guide them through the test wheras, Ns just "get it" and take it and that's it.

Yes, that's so true. I found the same thing with two ISTJs myself. As for my own testing it was done formally over a couple of days. I threw some questions on one area, and it was picked up, and I was also told that the system they were using picked up thrown questions and then suggested that the person throwing them was most likely to be INTP. Hoisted by my own petard, I think.

-Geoff

[Eileen]

This reminds me. Regarding dominant functions, T and F folks are considered rational types, while N and S are irrational types. The world is a slight more transparent to me now.

T/F are rational. N/S are perceiving. Apples and armadillos.

[Edmond Zedo]

T/F are rational. N/S are perceiving. Apples and armadillos.
That's not how Jung put it.

[CreativeChaos]

But once an ISFJ has become part of a group they are likely to do what ever they can to remain part of that group and they generally fear change and so if they mix in those circles thry may never leave them, as I said creating a few slightly odd Guardians (ISFJ's in perticular) and causing difficulty in typing them. I speak partly from direct experience with my ISFJ sister who is currently living her life in a manner somehwhat resembling an INTJ or INFJ because this is the role she feels people expect from her, she can fake a good N simply because she has a very good memory, she can know many answer's without really understanding many of them.

This is true. There is an ISTJ in our discussion group, that is totally focused on N stuff, "the meaning of life kinds of things". She is the only one, and has become the "secretary" of the group. Her late husband had started the group. I and others of the group agree that the only reason she is still attending is out of respect for her deceesed husban. She rarely has any comments in the group. I could NEVER get my ex ISTJ husband to come. And my INFJ friend cannot get his ISTJ wife to come. They just find that kind of discsussion very boring. There is an INTP in the group as well. He's the only one and he's very popular. That's becuase his comments are unique and refreshing.

[Architectonic]

But once an ISFJ has become part of a group they are likely to do what ever they can to remain part of that group and they generally fear change and so if they mix in those circles thry may never leave them, as I said creating a few slightly odd Guardians (ISFJ's in perticular) and causing difficulty in typing them. I speak partly from direct experience with my ISFJ sister who is currently living her life in a manner somehwhat resembling an INTJ or INFJ because this is the role she feels people expect from her, she can fake a good N simply because she has a very good memory, she can know many answer's without really understanding many of them.

So your sister has had significant difficulties in being tested as a result of this? Roughly how old is she?


Well, I my ISTJ friends and mother were very happy to oblige with the test.

Yes, but how likely do you think it would be that they would seek out the test independently of friends/family like you or a workplace situation etc?

[callie]

Yeah, I had looked at your profile once, and just looked at in again. I seemed to have recalled someone say something about you being an ESFP, but I think they were joking.


YYYYYEEEAAAYYYY an ENFP!!!!! I have some company!!! :cheers: Maybe these INTPs won't see me as so incredibly off the wall now. :D

Yes, that was ZD, but he is wrong..... :D Nice, though since it is a good sign when he types someone ESFP! :blush:

[Architectonic]

This is true. There is an ISTJ in our discussion group, that is totally focused on N stuff, "the meaning of life kinds of things".

But did this lead to them being mis-typed when tested?

I agree that some people can no doubt be heavily influenced by others, but we'd like to know how much effect this has on them being mis-typed...

[Lee]

So your sister has had significant difficulties in being tested as a result of this? Roughly how old is she?

I have had little difficulty typing her, I have known her pretty much my whole life and had little difficulty in deciding that she was ISFJ, however I have observed her recent behaviour and realised how it may appear to somebody who does not know her well that she may be a INFJ or INTJ.

Age is another side of things that I was planning on posting about, she is 17 and this obviously makes typology a little trickier.

In respect to the age problem, it seems to me that due to hormonal imbalance and certain strange behaviour of the frontal lobes during puberty teenagers tend to be disproportionally XXFP, thus creating greater difficulties when typing others.

[CreativeChaos]

But did this lead to them being mis-typed when tested?

I agree that some people can no doubt be heavily influenced by others, but we'd like to know how much effect this has on them being mis-typed...

No. SHE tested as an ISTJ. But she is 65ish and very mature. Should really know who she is. She is quietly confident, aparantly in herself. She is really nice. I like her.

[Edmond Zedo]

T/F are rational. N/S are perceiving. Apples and armadillos.

"The irrational introverted types are certainly no teachers of more perfect humanity; they lack reason and the ethics of reason. But their lives teach the other possibility, the interior life which is so painfully wanting in our civilization." --Jung

[Eileen]

That's not how Jung put it.

Did Jung say rational/irrational or rational/nonrational?

Irrational: not endowed with reason.
Nonrational: not based on reason; obtained through intuition rather than from reasoning or observation



Not that I really feel like talking about this. I'm actually just curious and hung up on semantics.



And now I'm tearing myself away from INTP central. Lesson plans call me.

[Eileen]

"The irrational introverted types are certainly no teachers of more perfect humanity; they lack reason and the ethics of reason. But their lives teach the other possibility, the interior life which is so painfully wanting in our civilization." --Jung

Okay, I see what you're basing your statement on. Not going to spend time dealing with it now, though.

[Edmond Zedo]

Did Jung say rational/irrational or rational/nonrational?
I beat you to the punch. Look up. ^

[CreativeChaos]

So your sister has had significant difficulties in being tested as a result of this? Roughly how old is she?



Yes, but how likely do you think it would be that they would seek out the test independently of friends/family like you or a workplace situation etc?

Okay, responding to Lee's post here. Yes, there is an ESFJ secretary in my office that I had real problem determining between S and N. She was so "spiritual" and would seem like an N in discussion. I finally "got her" when I started discussions of abstraction. Like "what do you think the symbolism of Jesus dying on the cross really means?" She just couldn't keep it up. She would change the subject by starting to talk about concrete personal references to her and other people. She CANNOT keep up an abstract converstaion.

And, NO Arch. The S's would generaly not take the test independently in my opionion. They just don't care. Also, they are surrounded by their types,so they don't think they are ODD or WIERD. They think WE are.

[Lee]

Also of note: The commonly used term "women's intuition" is an F trait more than an N trait, this can also cuase some confusion.

[callie]

I started discussions of abstraction. Like "what do you think the symbolism of Jesus dying on the cross really means?" .


Do you find that abstract? :huh:

[CreativeChaos]

Do you find that abstract? :huh:

Haaa!!! Well, it technically is abstract. And it WAS way to abstract for her. That wasn't the actual question I asked, though. I don't remember exactly what it was. I've "abstracted" just a little, often, though, and she just doesn't "take the bait" as an N would. Hee!

[CreativeChaos]

Also of note: The commonly used term "women's intuition" is an F trait more than an N trait, this can also cuase some confusion.

YES! My ENFJ friend thinks she is VERY intuitive. And actually she IS, in the usual sense of the word. Intuitive, means abstract thinker in MBTI, NOT the orignal sense of the word. I wish they would change there labels, because they are DAMN confusing.

Intuitive to Abstract

Sensing to Concrete

[songbird36]

He doesn't have the INFP traits of being in his own head. I think intorverts usually go off into their own world of thought occasionally, at least INs do. And he doesn't seem to ever in social situations, while I do all the time. When we are talking its fairly common for him to just assume I'm paying attention when half of the time I'm running through some thoughts in my head instead of listening. To my knowledge, he never does that.

I was discussing listening with someone IRL yesterday. I actually believe that the skill of attentiveness in listening to others is not a E/I distinction. I believe it is an S/N distinction. If your friend is a super good listener and is always attentive, it is entirely possible he is an "S" not an "N".

This is because listening is a "sense" function. Strong "S" people tend to be highly observant as well, I have noticed. They will notice everything in their surroundings, such as what people are wearing, or if there's a new picture on the wall. They also make good listeners because they are grounded in the "here and now" and do not have a lot of ideas going on in their head while someone is talking to them.

I have observed this distinction quite clearly in my own two kids. One is an "N" (the older) and the other an "S". The "S" boy is a *much* better listener and much more attentive, while the other one often simply doesn't hear when you talk to him, if he's thinking about something else.

[CreativeChaos]

I was discussing listening with someone IRL yesterday. I actually believe that the skill of attentiveness in listening to others is not a E/I distinction. I believe it is an S/N distinction. If your friend is a super good listener and is always attentive, it is entirely possible he is an "S" not an "N".
This is because listening is a "sense" function. Strong "S" people tend to be highly observant as well, I have noticed. They will notice everything in their surroundings, such as what people are wearing, or if there's a new picture on the wall. They also make good listeners because they are grounded in the "here and now" and do not have a lot of ideas going on in their head while someone is talking to them.

I have observed this distinction quite clearly in my own two kids. One is an "N" (the older) and the other an "S". The "S" boy is a *much* better listener and much more attentive, while the other one often simply doesn't hear when you talk to him, if he's thinking about something else.

Accually, I disagree with the sentences I highlighted, Songbird. I can APPEAR to be attentive, when I am not. It's just that I can totally listen to what the other person is saying and have a lot of other stuff going through my mind as well. That is the hallmark of an N. But an N can really "fake" attentative listening. OR can truly be listening attentavely but have a lot of other stuff going on as well.

[Geoff]

What did you say again? Uh huh. Yes.

-Geoff

[songbird36]

Accually, I disagree with the sentences I highlighted, Songbird. I can APPEAR to be attentive, when I am not. It's just that I can totally listen to what the other person is saying and have a lot of other stuff going through my mind as well. That is the hallmark of an N. But an N can really "fake" attentative listening. OR can truly be listening attentavely but have a lot of other stuff going on as well.

You're talking about "faking" attentiveness. I'm talking about actually *being* attentive naturally. My "S" son is highly attentive naturally - he doesn't have to work at it. My other son is constantly being pulled up by his class teachers for not listening and not being able to follow instructions.

The latter problem is a very common INTP/INTJ problem.

[CreativeChaos]

What did you say again? Uh huh. Yes.

-Geoff

Haa! EXACTLY, Geoff! Hee! :devil:

[t]

i'm a bad listener. i always drift off into my own thoughts when someone's talking, but somehow pick up on at least one aspect of what they are saying in case i'm asked about it. if i drink coffee, i'm more attentive though... haha. it's the same thing with school work and even reading this forum. it's funny, though, because i've been told that i am a good listener, when i'm just good at elaborating on a point.

i'm observant, but with really random things. i'll notice how symbolic a certain object that i randomly see is in the scheme of my thoughts or my life at the moment. however, i couldn't tell you what the person sitting next to me is wearing 10 minutes after i've left them.

and my entp friend is the most intuitive person i know. i swear she's borderline psychic.

[Swift]

The S's would generaly not take the test independently in my opionion. They just don't care. Also, they are surrounded by their types,so they don't think they are ODD or WIERD. They think WE are. They just fail to realise that we are SPECIAL. ;-)

[CreativeChaos]

You're talking about "faking" attentiveness. I'm talking about actually *being* attentive naturally. My "S" son is highly attentive naturally - he doesn't have to work at it. My other son is constantly being pulled up by his class teachers for not listening and not being able to follow instructions.

The latter problem is a very common INTP/INTJ problem.

Haaa! :smooch: Again, your exactness is very accute, Songbird. Yes. I agree that actually "being" attentive is a hallmark of an S.

Much of this discussion was going into how a type "appears" and trying to guess anothers type. So I was interpreting on that. So in it's exact form I totally agree with the statement highlighted.

[songbird36]

i'm observant, but with really random things. i'll notice how symbolic a certain object that i randomly see is in the scheme of my thoughts or my life at the moment. however, i couldn't tell you what the person sitting next to me is wearing 10 minutes after i've left them.

and my entp friend is the most intuitive person i know. i swear she's borderline psychic.

OK I'll proffer another theory then. I believe that sensates *do* notice random things around them more (not necessarily things they're interested in). I actually tested my two sons out on this the other day. I had framed and put up a new picture on the wall in my family room (some framed French decorative postcards).

When my kids got home from school I asked them both if they noticed anything different in the room. My sensate boy noticed the new picture instantly, and the other one took about 5 mins or consciously searching around the room to find it.

[CreativeChaos]

i'm a bad listener. i always drift off into my own thoughts when someone's talking, but somehow pick up on at least one aspect of what they are saying in case i'm asked about it. if i drink coffee, i'm more attentive though... haha. it's the same thing with school work and even reading this forum. it's funny, though, because i've been told that i am a good listener, when i'm just good at elaborating on a point.

i'm observant, but with really random things. i'll notice how symbolic a certain object that i randomly see is in the scheme of my thoughts or my life at the moment. however, i couldn't tell you what the person sitting next to me is wearing 10 minutes after i've left them.
and my entp friend is the most intuitive person i know. i swear she's borderline psychic.

I do this when the subject goes into an SJ topic. I call it "lawnmower parts" topics. As in discussing the intricacies of lawnmower parts. SJs can REALLY get into this, but I can't help but phase out.

I wish MY ENTP boss was borderline psychic.

[Swift]

YES! My ENFJ friend thinks she is VERY intuitive. And actually she IS, in the usual sense of the word. Intuitive, means abstract thinker in MBTI, NOT the orignal sense of the word. I wish they would change there labels, because they are DAMN confusing.

Intuitive to Abstract

Sensing to Concrete Yes I agree about changing the labels but MB iNtuition also means being able to see patterns where others can see only dots (= facts). Which makes us more intuitive because we can pinpoint the missing dots. Cool huh?

Swift

[CreativeChaos]

OK I'll proffer another theory then. I believe that sensates *do* notice random things around them more (not necessarily things they're interested in). I actually tested my two sons out on this the other day. I had framed and put up a new picture on the wall in my family room (some framed French decorative postcards).

When my kids got home from school I asked them both if they noticed anything different in the room. My sensate boy noticed the new picture instantly, and the other one took about 5 mins or consciously searching around the room to find it.

TOTALLY!!! Songbird! My ex ISTJ husband was always noticing random things. It would irritate the heck out of him, when he was driving and he would make a comment about something he saw along the side of the road, and I wouldn't respond because I was "in another world".

[Boneca]

There is also the problem of an SJ (Gaurdian) who grows up in a household of NF's (Idealists) or NT's (Rationals), as guardians naturally take on the roles expected of them, especially ISFJ's and need to conform to what people want of them this combination may create some very perculiar Gaurdians running around behaving simiraly to NF's or NT'sThat is a very good point, Lee!
I ran across this once before I knew anything about MBTI. It was an ex-boyfriend of mine that I thought was very similar to me at first, but there were some really weird stuff about him. For example; he worked with computers (tech support - similar to my job), but I found out that he cared more for the customers and the company than for the technical stuff. A great day for me would be when I had solved a difficult problem, while a great day for him would be when he had made a customer happy!
In retrospect, I've figured out that he must have been an ESFJ who had grown up in a family of NT's - trying his best to fit in.

[CreativeChaos]

They just fail to realise that we are SPECIAL. ;-)

Right, Swifty-Pooh :wub: You especially are indeed VERY special. Hee!

[CreativeChaos]

Yes I agree about changing the labels but MB iNtuition also means being able to see patterns where others can see only dots (= facts). Which makes us more intuitive because we can pinpoint the missing dots. Cool huh?

Swift

Yep, I LOVE it! But, still, intuitive means something totally different to most people. Abstract would be so less confusing. I have to keep explaining to this ESFJ girl that intuitive does NOT mean what she thinks it means. It's really frustrating. Thinking and Feeling are two other terms that are completely confusing.

Change

Feeling - Values (oriented)

Thinking - Objective (oriented)

[cjs55]

If your friend is a super good listener and is always attentive, it is entirely possible he is an "S" not an "N".

I really doubt that he's an S, if only because he's certianly not a guardian or a artisan. The reason he's so attentive is not because it necessarily becomes naturally to him, its because he values it so much on an idealistic level. There's really no question to me that he's an NF, and the only two types he could be are INFP and ENFP.

And CC has somewhat ruined my previous belief that he's an ENFP. Although to tell you the truth, I'm actually swaying more towards saying that CC is an ENFP rather than saying my friend is an INFP. Stubborn, I know.

[t]

When my kids got home from school I asked them both if they noticed anything different in the room. My sensate boy noticed the new picture instantly, and the other one took about 5 mins or consciously searching around the room to find it.

well, i'm notorious at work for never being able to find anything and never noticing when something's new. i'm starting to get the reputation of somewhat of a ditz. ha. for example, when a customer inquires about a new pastry, my first response is usually "heh, what new pastry?" and then they tell me and after i finally find it, i'm usually amazed at myself that i didn't notice it because it was in front of my face. actually, my S ex used to tell me that this quality of mine drove him NUTS. but i swear i'm not as bad as my infp mom!

so does that help your theory? haha.

[t]

I do this when the subject goes into an SJ topic. I call it "lawnmower parts" topics. As in discussing the intricacies of lawnmower parts. SJs can REALLY get into this, but I can't help but phase out.



yea, i have a bad habit of "skipping over the boring parts" when doing reading for school. this is why i had to switch into physical science from biological science. memorization of hundreds of genus and species names was impossible for me.

funny, though... i'm actually decent at trivia. i usually do well in trivial pursuit and while pretending to be on jeopardy.

[t]

Yes I agree about changing the labels but MB iNtuition also means being able to see patterns where others can see only dots (= facts). Which makes us more intuitive because we can pinpoint the missing dots. Cool huh?

Swift

i like the way you put that.

[Swift]

my first response is usually "heh, what new pastry?" and then they tell me and after i finally find it, i'm usually amazed at myself that i didn't notice it because it was in front of my face. I like the way you put THAT! :lol: :rofl:

[songbird36]

Yes and thing is, senstates *never* have this problem.

Teachers *love* sensates, because they're always looking, always listening, know where their possessions and belongings are, and even where the teacher's are sometimes.

N's on the other hand get a bad rap in the school system.

Sorry, I've got this thread a bit off topic..

[CreativeChaos]

I really doubt that he's an S, if only because he's certianly not a guardian or a artisan. The reason he's so attentive is not because it necessarily becomes naturally to him, its because he values it so much on an idealistic level. There's really no question to me that he's an NF, and the only two types he could be are INFP and ENFP.

And CC has somewhat ruined my previous belief that he's an ENFP. Although to tell you the truth, I'm actually swaying more towards saying that CC is an ENFP rather than saying my friend is an INFP. Stubborn, I know.

Ha!! You should see what I just posted on the Introvert/Social Anxiety post.

Okay, briefly, it was that there are some people on this board who have expressed a concern that I AM ENFP. (I seriously don't think so) But I have had severe social anxiety/panic. So is it the Introversion with F that has me panicing or that I have a physical problem that has warped my E. Heh! The rabbit hole goes deeper. :devil:

[CreativeChaos]

yea, i have a bad habit of "skipping over the boring parts" when doing reading for school. this is why i had to switch into physical science from biological science. memorization of hundreds of genus and species names was impossible for me.

funny, though... i'm actually decent at trivia. i usually do well in trivial pursuit and while pretending to be on jeopardy.

Yeah!!! I have an INTJ friend who is GREAT with trivia! Why IS that?

[t]

N's on the other hand get a bad rap in the school system.



so true. during parent - teacher conferences when i was younger, the most common description of me was, "well, she's an extremely bright girl, but she just doesn't apply herself." and then i tested into the gifted program.

one of my teachers passed me solely on the reason that when i said things in class, they were really insightful and advanced for my age and she felt like if she failed me (because i never did homework, bombed any test that was based on facts, etc), then she was going to hurt my future and she didn't feel right doing that. i am forever grateful for that teacher because i wouldn't have graduated high school with my year if not for her. however, i always felt like teachers and now professors either love me or hate me or are really confused by me b/c i excel in the work if it's conceptual & pattern-heavy, but i can't tell you the details out of the pattern or context.

now that i'm in my last year of college, i find school's getting EASIER for me because most of my work is research-based and not exam based.

[songbird36]

Schools are geared up for sensates and sensate styles of learning - there's no doubt about that. And that's not at all surprising. Of course schools will seek to cater for the majority groups in the population, but in doing so, they tend to overlook other groups (such as ours) with specific needs.

My son's attention problem got so bad a few years ago that I actually seriously thought he was partially deaf. I took him to an audiologist and had his hearing tested, and she duly informed me that his hearing was *way better than average*, but that he had an attention deficit problem.

lol

[Geoff]

Schools vary from place to place. Mainstream schooling is geared like that. In my elitist school (selecting 10% by exam ability at age 11+) it tended to vary. I often had small classes of <10 for some subjects with open discussion and more experimental analysis. I can certainly remember informed debate about say 'belief in a God' in Religious Studies that was a model of modern enlightenment. At least more so than the similar thread on here....

-Geoff

[Lee]

Okay, briefly, it was that there are some people on this board who have expressed a concern that I AM ENFP.

Heh....I have been thinking this for a while now....your online persona is certainly ENFP :)

[Geoff]

Heh....I have been thinking this for a while now....your online persona is certainly ENFP :)

The thing is, by CC's own admission she is living an internal 'lie' by the way she behaves on here. She has said more than once that she would be horrified to act like this IRL and that is very reserved. She is at that age (sorry CC) when she is developing a side of her personality previously repressed. She is learning E in the way she wants to..

-Geoff

[t]

Schools are geared up for sensates and sensate styles of learning - there's no doubt about that. And that's not at all surprising. Of course schools will seek to cater for the majority groups in the population, but in doing so, they tend to overlook other groups (such as ours) with specific needs.

My son's attention problem got so bad a few years ago that I actually seriously thought he was partially deaf. I took him to an audiologist and had his hearing tested, and she duly informed me that his hearing was *way better than average*, but that he had an attention deficit problem.

lol

during my senior year of high school, i was placed in an alternative learning school. i ended up with a 4.0 that year (a very easy to obtain 4.0, i must add), when i was barely pulling a 2.0 at the regular high school. the difference was that in the alternative learning school, it was mostly all independent work and more creative approaches to assignments.

[songbird36]

Schools vary from place to place. Mainstream schooling is geared like that. In my elitist school (selecting 10% by exam ability at age 11+) it tended to vary. I often had small classes of <10 for some subjects with open discussion and more experimental analysis. I can certainly remember informed debate about say 'belief in a God' in Religious Studies that was a model of modern enlightenment. At least more so than the similar thread on here....

-Geoff

That would be unusual though Geoff. I'mn sure that private schools generally cater better for the needs of their constituency than public schools, but the reality is most people can't afford to send their kids to a private school, so State schools simply must do better.

I intend to send both my sons to a semi-private school when they reach 11. In New Zealand we have a category of schools called "integrated schools" which are not fully public or private. They have a mixture of state and private funding, and are required to have an "integration agreement" with the State whereby they must teach to the NZ national curriculum, and agree to certain principles (such as how they teach religious education, as state schools in NZ must be secular).

I am confident that this particular school will cater better for my sons' educational needs than a state school, and this particularly applies to my INTP son.

[Geoff]

Yes, sounds sensible to me. My school was a fully state school, by the way.

-Geoff

[songbird36]

For the record I don't think CC is an ENFP or anything like that.

She's exactly like me - she has a much more extraverted persona online than she does IRL. I've met a couple of online buddies IRL and they are always very surprised at my reserve in person.

[Geoff]

Are you too, like CC, living a lie to express yourself differently in a way you cant IRL? Me, I am what you get in either sphere...

-Geoff

[songbird36]

Are you too, like CC, living a lie to express yourself differently in a way you cant IRL? Me, I am what you get in either sphere...

-Geoff

Oh yes definitely.

I can fulfill extraverted yearnings in myself on-line in a way I never could IRL.

But what this has meant for me recently is that I've met a few highly extraverted men online (by that I mean extraverts IRL) who have become very attracted to me. And they are not people I would actually be interested in IRL.

[Lee]

OK back on topic.

I have added 2nd proposed kind of mistype to origional post, Page 1, Post 1.

[t]

2. The Thinker Who Knows Emotions But is Not Controlled by Them

I believe a mistype can be made here and I believe there are 2 different varieties as well. To be a T (thinker) one simply has to value logic above emotional considerations when forming an opinion or course of action, well it seems to me that some people are devoid of almost any emotion, indeed there are disorders acossiated with such conditions and these people are fairly easy to classify as T.
However the problem rises within an individual who is very aware of his or hers emotions and very responsive and understanding of others feelings but yet still values logic above all else (or maybe alogic, but lets not get that going). I could hypothosize that this scenario is most likely to occur under certain conditions, A genetic predisposition towards strong feeling's and a social early childhood (with mother and/or siblings) which would develop empathic skills coupled with an enviroment which demands logic, possibly from one of the parents or due to an childhood trauma of some kind.
The second form of mis-type caused in relation to T/F is the person who's T pretends to be an F, what I mean by this is somebody who uses logic and knowledge gained from reading or study to behave like an F under certain situations, a T masquerading as an F you might say.


see, i always test strongly T and i never understand why b/c i feel as though i am emotional enough to test closer to borderline. however, when i make decisions i do so pretty much entirely through logic and not emotion, so i guess that's where it comes from. when i'm in relationships, i feel like my F comes out a lot more - almost TOO much - which confuses me.

[callie]

Yes, lee, that's one point. I know a thinker (he surely is a thinker because he makes decision based on thinking...) but he is able to express emotions and to empathise to people. He is able to say stuff like : "wow! i can feel what you are going thru..... " and he really does. But when making a decision, he will "think" and not always pay attention to other people feelings... But he is able to express his own feelings... I find that it is a quite mature behavior...

Where did you have all that info Lee? I find it really interesting? A book?

[Lee]

Yes, lee, that's one point. I know a thinker (he surely is a thinker because he makes decision based on thinking...) but he is able to express emotions and to empathise to people. He is able to say stuff like : "wow! i can feel what you are going thru..... " and he really does. But when making a decision, he will "think" and not always pay attention to other people feelings... But he is able to express his own feelings... I find that it is a quite mature behavior...

Where did you have all that info Lee? I find it really interesting? A book?

My own head :)

[callie]

My own head :)

Wow! 8O :smooch:

[MasterMerk]

Schools are geared up for sensates and sensate styles of learning - there's no doubt about that. And that's not at all surprising. Of course schools will seek to cater for the majority groups in the population, but in doing so, they tend to overlook other groups (such as ours) with specific needs.

My son's attention problem got so bad a few years ago that I actually seriously thought he was partially deaf. I took him to an audiologist and had his hearing tested, and she duly informed me that his hearing was *way better than average*, but that he had an attention deficit problem.

lol

YES! This is very true in Australia. Annoying as fuck, too.

And for the record,
-------------
Some more of the prominant ENFP signs, from the ones I have known:

ENFPs aren't neccesarily apparent in their "wanting to be accepted" thing. It's there, but you can miss it fairly easily at first.

ENFPs are enthusiastic, and they *really* show it.

ENFPs CAN fake small talk, quite like ENTPs.

Callie said "wow". All the ENFPs I know say wow.

[songbird36]

Callie said "wow". All the ENFPs I know say wow.

Haha - I think Callie's an ESFP actually.

Callie?

[MasterMerk]

But It says so in her profile. Profiles never lie. :cool:

[songbird36]

OK I stand corrected.

[Lee]

added another mis-type to origional post :)

first post of the thread,

[Architectonic]

3. The SJ's who don't conform

It is generally considered that SJ's or Gaurdian temperaments are conformists they create, control and administer the rules and common social customs of society and that SJ's easily assimmilate and become part of a collective custom designed to fulfill there needs and desires. The confusion of typing correctly primarily stems from the ESTJ, ESTJ's like rules, regulations, organisation and applying these beleifs to not only thier enviroment but also those around them, the problem is that as far as the ESTJ is concerned they should be the one creating and applying these rules and can resent others trying to do the sae to them, ESTJ's wish to be top dog and often find themselves in positions of control. However ESTJ's can easily be mistaken for SP's (Artisans) for thier non-conformism when they are provoked into a powerplay with a superior, this can cause certain mis-understandings as to the driving force behind their behaviour as it is not fuelled by the same desires as it would be in an Artisan.


The issue is what do they wish to conform with? SJs can most certainly have different ideas than each other and they can also have, perhaps the most heated arguements with other SJs over these differences.

Politics has many examples of this...

[Lee]

The issue is what do they wish to conform with? SJs can most certainly have different ideas than each other and they can also have, perhaps the most heated arguements with other SJs over these differences.

Politics has many examples of this...

Yes, I know :thumbup:....I was trying to give a specific examples as to how different mistakes are made when typing others I realise there are various different factors that contribute and many vissicitudes types may take.

I am trying to gather a list of more specific examples that clearly cannot function as general rules, however ultimately I would hope to form a bigger picture which includes such ideas as the one you have expressed. :)

[callie]

Haha - I think Callie's an ESFP actually.

Callie?

Why?



The issue is what do they wish to conform with? SJs can most certainly have different ideas than each other and they can also have, perhaps the most heated arguements with other SJs over these differences.

Politics has many examples of this...

About ESFJ:

Some ESFJ are scared when they are typed as "traditionalists". They don't realise they are.... And i often saw that some ESFJs are able to have a few abstract conv. Or they might look intuitive because some of them really like art and especially visual art.... And they look cultured.. But as CC said, they can't have any abstract/philosophical conversations.... they don't have any original thought, neither personal opinion on abstract matters. They just are able to repeat what they heard. But from a external point of view, they might be considered as intuitive.


About ENFP/ESFP :hello: :P

Whereas ESFJ can give the impression of being intuitive, ESFPs are completly unable to have ANY abstract conversations I saw that a lot among my ESFPs friends. They just look for fun but not for any deeper conversations And they just run away if you begin to have any abstract conv. I noticed that a few times... They don't even like psychology :smooch: . Actually, ESFPs and ENFPs might look the same in a party, in a social gathering and they are quite a few similarities (both funny, both people orientated, both artsy, both disorganised, both spontaneous....). But the ENFP is the intellectual version of the ESFPs. An ENFP can have fun and have a great conversation, double skills :) (rather in his mother tong... abstraction and irony are the most complicated things to handle with in a foreign language... :smooch: Irony is hard to understand and abstract concepts are hard to say bc you just miss the words or the expressions to say what you are just thinking!)
You can even notice that difference ESFPs/ENFPs in the speech patterns. ESFP might use a more casual vocabulary (whereas ESFJ might also speak well, because of their trad. side and the fact that a good person should speak well in their own point of view). ENFPs will not only choose their words but also will choose a more metaphoric language. ENFPs i think, are likely to be excellent teachers, b/c they are able to relate to poeple on their own level and make abstract concepts, easy to understand to everyone and explain, and explain again, untill ervyone knows....ESFPs on the other hand will adopt the teen look even in their thirties, and the teen speech.... Maybe that's why my ESFP friend is such a great youth group leader in his church. He totallly can relate to teens... But i like ESFPs b/c they are cool and fun to hang out with! They really are concerned by other people pbls and they might be very good artists (mostly).

Another bif diff. between ENFP and ESFP is that ENFPs just desire freedom. They need to be free and fill so.... ENFPs need time alone to recover their freedom or maybe b/c they concentrate so much on people in social gathering that they need some time for themselves to make a balance.... But ESFPs can not stand one moment alone. They feel empty lonely when alone and they tend to fill all their lives with only social gathering to overcome that emptiness. Whereas ENFPs can handle loneliness even though they don't really like it. ENFPs will also refuse to be labelled b/c they want to protect their own identity and individuality, even from people they so much care about.... ENFPs are like birds you try to take in your hands and they just fly away all the time... They belong nowhere and noone!
Freedom also means that you can't spend all your time with people or with the same people all the time. I tend to have several groups of friends i don't mix... It is a choice b/c i can't stand belonging to ONE group: it would make me humanly and intellectually poor ( group of people i can have fun with, group of people i can talk to, group of people i can have holidays with, people who can give me insightful advices, people i like to help.......) I think it is more an ENFP thing. ESFPs will avoid loneliness and therefore hang out with anyone, all the time and mix all they different groups of friends, if that different people are able to get along with each other.



About ENTJs, some might be frighten by the descr. of the ENTJs and they are mistyped bc they try to hide that ENTJ side they find not really cool themselves... One of my friend is that way too...

[Architectonic]

Another myth I guess is assuming that all Ss are less intelligent. Firstly (and obviously) there are many aspects of intelligence and just because they aren't quite as adept at abstract reasoning does not mean they are dumb. One thing I have observed is those Ss who are very intelligent tend to have very good memories. This can give others the impression that they are very insightful and knowledgeable, when in reality they have just read a lot of literature and can actually remember exactly what it said.



Some ESFJ are scared when they are typed as "traditionalists". They don't realise they are.... And i often saw that some ESFJs are able to have a few abstract conv. Or they might look intuitive because some of them really like art and especially visual art.... And they look cultured.. But as CC said, they can't have any abstract/philosophical conversations.... they don't have any original thought, neither personal opinion on abstract matters. They just are able to repeat what they heard. But from a external point of view, they might be considered as intuitive.


Well I guess they may be mistyped by other SJs, the ESFJ for example may seem to understand abstract matters a little more than themselves, so they may consider the possibility.

But really, most Ns who are experienced at determining peoples types won't really be "fooled" quite as easily. It is probably reasonably rare that they would be mistyped by a reasonable test either.



Whereas ESFJ can give the impression of being intuitive, ESFPs are completly unable to have ANY abstract conversations I saw that a lot among my ESFPs friends. They just look for fun but not for any deeper conversations And they just run away if you begin to have any abstract conv. I noticed that a few times... They don't even like psychology :smooch: . Actually, ESFPs and ENFPs might look the same in a party, in a social gathering and they are quite a few similarities (both funny, both people orientated, both artsy, both disorganised, both spontaneous....). But the ENFP is the intellectual version of the ESFPs. An ENFP can have fun and have a great conversation, double skills :) (rather in his mother tong... abstraction and irony are the most complicated things to handle with in a foreign language... :smooch: Irony is hard to understand and abstract concepts are hard to say bc you just miss the words or the expressions to say what you are just thinking!)
You can even notice that difference ESFPs/ENFPs in the speech patterns. ESFP might use a more casual vocabulary (whereas ESFJ might also speak well, because of their trad. side and the fact that a good person should speak well in their own point of view). ENFPs will not only choose their words but also will choose a more metaphoric language. ENFPs i think, are likely to be excellent teachers, b/c they are able to relate to poeple on their own level and make abstract concepts, easy to understand to everyone and explain, and explain again, untill ervyone knows....But ESFPs will adopt the teen look even in their thirties, and the teen speech.... Maybe that's why my ESFP friend is such a great youth group leader in his church. He totallly can relate to teens... But i like ESFPs b/c they are cool and fun to hang out with! They really are concerned by other people pbls and they might be very good artists (mostly).

Well I believe that some SPs can give the aura (at least to most people) that they are intuitive by having a large amount of experience in a particular field and have accumulated enough knowledge to become a guru of sorts. Of course to an NT (or NF : ) who understands the deeper concepts of that particular field, may realize that the advice of the SP "guru" is a bit lacking (they may be often wrong on some issues) and that they lack deeper understanding. I've observed some ISTPs like this.

As far as ENFPs go, I tend to agree with your generalization but... I have several ENFPs in my family, my sister who in many ways seems like an ESFP wannabe. Most people would mistake her for an ESFP at a party. She is 25 and she still tries to act like a teen (and spends a fair bit of time with her teen classmates). She also seems to have a need to always be around other people.
But she is quite capable of understanding abstract concepts and using more complex language. The subjects she has being achieving the highest marks in tended to be the more abstract ones. She was the best student in Physics in grade 12 at her High School etc. Since our whole familiy are Ns, I believe this (acting like an ESFP) was her way of being different to the rest of the family.

My mother on the other hand, can certainly handle being alone (in fact, now that she is a bit older, she prefers a decent amount of time alone). She is also significantly less likely to be mistaken for an ESFP...

Obviously the fundamental goals and desires of an ENFP differs significantly from an ESFP.



About ENTJs, some might be frighten by the descr. of the ENTJs and they are mistyped bc they try to hide that ENTJ side they find not really cool themselves... One of my friend is that way too...

I assume you mean they try to deny their more abstract/intellectual thinking ability and act more like ESTJs. Actually, I agree that this particular mistyping may occur a little more often than some of the others. But if you knew the ENTJ fairly well then it would become more unlikely that they would be mistyped.

[callie]

Another myth I guess is assuming that all Ss are less intelligent. Firstly (and obviously) there are many aspects of intelligent and just because they aren't quite as adept at abstract reasoning does not mean they are dumb. One thing I have observed is those Ss who are very intelligent tend to have very good memories. This can give others the impression that they are very insightful and knowledgeable, when in reality they have just read a lot of literature and can actually remember exactly what it said.[QUOTE]

For sure! The former post was about abstraction, not intelligence.... :smooch:



Well I believe that some SPs can give the aura (at least to most people) that they are intuitive by having a large amount of experience in a particular field and have accumulated enough knowledge to become a guru of sorts. Of course to an NT (or NF : ) who understands the deeper concepts of that particular field, may realize that the advice of the SP "guru" is a bit lacking (they may be often wrong on some issues) and that they lack deeper understanding. I've observed some ISTPs like this.

As far as ENFPs go, I tend to agree with your generalization but... I have several ENFPs in my family, my sister who in many ways seems like an ESFP wannabe. Most people would mistake her for an ESFP at a party. She is 25 and she still tries to act like a teen (and spends a fair bit of time with her teen classmates). She also seems to have a need to always be around other people.
But she is quite capable of understanding abstract concepts and using more complex language. The subjects she has being achieving the highest marks in tended to be the more abstract ones. She was the best student in Physics in grade 12 at her High School etc. Since our whole familiy are Ns, I believe this (acting like an ESFP) was her way of being different to the rest of the family.
.
Thank you for your example which confirms in so many ways the former post! :smooch:

[songbird36]

The issue is what do they wish to conform with? SJs can most certainly have different ideas than each other and they can also have, perhaps the most heated arguements with other SJs over these differences.

Politics has many examples of this...

I'm not sure about politics but I believe SJs are *sociall* conservative. They are more likely for example to adhere to traditional gender roles, and not to tolerate things such as homsexuality.

I encountered this abit with my ISTJ ex-boyfriend who was (I suspect) at his core, quite misogynistic. He had grown up in a family with a stay at home mother who was expected to do everything round the house, and although he didn't expect that of me, I felt that he "objectified" me a lot, and was uncomfortable with me expressing strong opinions on things.

[callie]

I assume you mean they try to deny their more abstract/intellectual thinking ability and act more like ESTJs. Actually, I agree that this particular mistyping may occur a little more often than some of the others. But if you knew the ENTJ fairly well then it would become more unlikely that they would be mistyped.


no i was talking about people who do not want to be typed as the field marschall. And refuse to be seen as judging though they are (to do lists, planning one week before the next week-end...) and there T side, maybe because they long to be feeler (to their own feelings and not to the other's) or artsy... I read somewhere that ENTJ have a NF soul.... might be.....

[callie]

I also guess that small talk to introvert is a learned skill, the same way that the use of thinking over some feelings is a learned skill to F. Like for ex. NF are prone to guilt and blame themselves of things they are not guilty of.... And a feeler can learn to think over that feeling like :"look at the situation, it is not your fault b/c this and that".... And using the thinking as an auxiliary function over his primary feeling function... But remain a feeler b/c the first reaction is to feel and for most of the other sit., the feeler will still feel and think less... Got it? :huh:

I don't know why i say this here :unsure: , this is completly out of topic... but that's a new thought and i did not know in which thread i could share it... so i choosed (felt :smooch: 8O ) this place! :blush:

[Eileen]

I also guess that small talk to introvert is a learned skill


yeah.

I really hate small talk. I am terrible at it. Meeting people is terribly hard for me because I just sort of sit in silence unless someone asks me something directly. Ugh. A guy at work said to me a few months after I started that he was worried about me working out because I barely said two words for the first week of school (to the rest of the faculty, that is).

I just really hate pointless talk. I don't want to talk unless I have something of significance to say, and I don't really like hearing insignificant things either. I learn to deal with it, but ugh! SUCKS! I wonder if INs have a harder time with this than ISs, since we're more abstract and less down-to-earth than Ss.

[CreativeChaos]

ALL THAT ESP's KNOW AND TALK ABOUT IS SEX!!!! :rant:


I haven't heard a word from Callie about that, so she is ENFP!!! :rant:


NO ESFP WOULD HAVE THE SENSE GOD GAVE A TURTLE TO COME ON LINE AND ENGAGE IN ABSTRACT COMMUNICATION THAT HAS ANY SENSE OF DEPTH!!!! :rant:


BESIDES!!! I LIKE CALLIE AND I HATE ESP's!!! THEREFORE CALLIE IS NOT AN ESP!!!! :rant:

[Eileen]

ALL THAT ESP's KNOW AND TALK ABOUT IS SEX!!!! :rant:


I haven't heard a word from Callie about that, so she is ENFP!!! :rant:


NO ESFP WOULD HAVE THE SENSE GOD GAVE A TURTLE TO COME ON LINE AND ENGAGE IN ABSTRACT COMMUNICATION THAT HAS ANY SENSE OF DEPTH!!!! :rant:


BESIDES!!! I LIKE CALLIE AND I HATE ESP's!!! THEREFORE CALLIE IS NOT AN ESP!!!! :rant:


Sheeeeeeeeeeeeeesssshhhh, lady!!! How can you be so hyperactive? Not an insult; I'm genuinely astonished.

[CreativeChaos]

Sheeeeeeeeeeeeeesssshhhh, lady!!! How can you be so hyperactive? Not an insult; I'm genuinely astonished.

:blush: It's my Fi, being VERY passionate!

[CreativeChaos]

NOW!!! For all of you who think I am ENFP, look at the difference between my public discritpion and Callies. Hers in :D Sunshine! :D, mine is The Impossible Dream, which is THE song of Don Quixote.

Also she put The best one!, I put the original one. That's a 4 and that's and INFP. What is your ennegram type by the way Callie? What is a usual ennegram for an ENFP?

Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: In the sunshine in the midst of clouds
Gender: The best one!
Posts: 168


Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Heeeeeeeeee! In The Impossible Dream
Gender: The Original One
Posts: 1,365

[Lee]

NOW!!! For all of you who think I am ENFP, look at the difference between my public discritpion and Callies. Hers in :D Sunshine! :D, mine is The Impossible Dream, which is THE song of Don Quixote.

Also she put The best one!, I put the original one. That's a 4 and that's and INFP. What is your ennegram type by the way Callie? What is a usual ennegram for an ENFP?

Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: In the sunshine in the midst of clouds
Gender: The best one!
Posts: 168


Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Heeeeeeeeee! In The Impossible Dream
Gender: The Original One
Posts: 1,365

eh...it proves nothing :p

you're just a paranoid ENFP :lol:

[Geoff]

yeah.

I really hate small talk. I am terrible at it. Meeting people is terribly hard for me because I just sort of sit in silence unless someone asks me something directly. Ugh. A guy at work said to me a few months after I started that he was worried about me working out because I barely said two words for the first week of school (to the rest of the faculty, that is).

I just really hate pointless talk. I don't want to talk unless I have something of significance to say, and I don't really like hearing insignificant things either. I learn to deal with it, but ugh! SUCKS! I wonder if INs have a harder time with this than ISs, since we're more abstract and less down-to-earth than Ss.

You even did that here, on the forum, for a while! I did notice... It's a vicious circle at a workplace, if you dont say much people expect that to continue, and if you change they wonder why!

-Geoff

[Geoff]

NOW!!! For all of you who think I am ENFP, look at the difference between my public discritpion and Callies. Hers in :D Sunshine! :D, mine is The Impossible Dream, which is THE song of Don Quixote.

Also she put The best one!, I put the original one. That's a 4 and that's and INFP. What is your ennegram type by the way Callie? What is a usual ennegram for an ENFP?

Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: In the sunshine in the midst of clouds
Gender: The best one!
Posts: 168


Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Heeeeeeeeee! In The Impossible Dream
Gender: The Original One
Posts: 1,365

And by your own admission we are not seeing the 'real you'. IRL we would not find you very 'E'.

-Geoff

[CreativeChaos]

And by your own admission we are not seeing the 'real you'. IRL we would not find you very 'E'.

-Geoff


Yeeeeessssssssssssssss... :snakey with tongue sticking out emoticon:


And I'm just ignoring YOU, Lee! :p

[Eileen]

You even did that here, on the forum, for a while! I did notice... It's a vicious circle at a workplace, if you dont say much people expect that to continue, and if you change they wonder why!

-Geoff

Huh. I wasn't aware I did it online too.

Sigh. It is inescapable!

[Architectonic]

I read somewhere that ENTJ have a NF soul.... might be.....

Not any of the ENTJs I have met. :wacko:

Actually, Dr Phil (from the TV show) is a good example, seems to be a bit more difficult to determine if he is ENTJ or ENFJ.

Most ENTJs I have met have been ok with their J side...

[CreativeChaos]

yeah.

I really hate small talk. I am terrible at it. Meeting people is terribly hard for me because I just sort of sit in silence unless someone asks me something directly. Ugh. A guy at work said to me a few months after I started that he was worried about me working out because I barely said two words for the first week of school (to the rest of the faculty, that is).

I just really hate pointless talk. I don't want to talk unless I have something of significance to say, and I don't really like hearing insignificant things either. I learn to deal with it, but ugh! SUCKS! I wonder if INs have a harder time with this than ISs, since we're more abstract and less down-to-earth than Ss.

Ummm... I don't care for pointless talk either, Eileen. But I must say, that my INFJ friend has a WHOLE lot more trouble with it than I do. It's the Dominant Ni with a J that "plans and plans".

INFP: Fi, Ne, Si, Te At 45 I have developed a solid Si and I can tolerate SJ talking quite a bit now.

INFJ: Ni, Fe, Ti, Se My INFJ friend is 70 and he STILL tunes out more than I.

[Eileen]

Ummm... I don't care for pointless talk either, Eileen. But I must say, that my INFJ friend has a WHOLE lot more trouble with it than I do. It's the Dominant Ni with a J that "plans and plans".

INFP: Fi, Ne, Si, Te At 45 I have developed a solid Si and I can tolerate SJ talking quite a bit now.

INFJ: Ni, Fe, Ti, Se My INFJ friend is 70 and he STILL tunes out more than I.


Si is very interesting to me because it's my shadow function. What do you think your Si has to do with your tolerance for nonsense-I-mean-small-talk?

[CreativeChaos]

Si is very interesting to me because it's my shadow function. What do you think your Si has to do with your tolerance for nonsense-I-mean-small-talk?

Because I can "feel" a practical purpose for it. I "get" the sensing communication. The connection that underlies all of the fact crap. Mind you, I STILL cannot tolerate small talk as much as an S. But I tolerate it better than I used to, and WAY better than my INFJ friend. Se AND Si are way in your shadow area. You have very little S developed at all right now I would say. Hence, the difficulties. I wouldn't worry about it though. My INFJ friend is good with kids. He plays a clown a lot. Heh! But I notice when he is "zoning" out amoung our ISTJ friends.

[callie]

Also she put The best one!, I put the original one. That's a 4 and that's and INFP. What is your ennegram type by the way Callie? What is a usual ennegram for an ENFP?


I don't know, i don't believe in enneagram... I fnd it is completly bullshit.... :blush:

[Architectonic]

I agree that the ennegram types don't quite correlate all that well with the MB types..

[misutii]

I agree that the ennegram types don't quite correlate all that well with the MB types..


actually i find that the enneagram correlates quite well with certain mbti types, INTPs tend to be 5s, maybe some 4s and 9s but the vast majority, as implicated in scientific studies are 5s. I'm sure this holds true for other minority types as well, the enneagram only looses it's correlational 'efficiency' when dealing with the majority types in my opinion, regardless i've found it to hold credibility in the friends that i have made take the test.

[Architectonic]

Yes, it has a vague correlation for some types. But tends to fall apart, or at least miss the mark somewhat when it comes to others.... At least that is what I found when examining it a little more deeply.

[misutii]

Yes, it has a vague correlation for some types. But tends to fall apart, or at least miss the mark somewhat when it comes to others.... At least that is what I found when examining it a little more deeply.

yah but really the minority types are the only ones that matter, most people in the majority aren't even interesting enough to be worthy of asking to take an enneagram test in the first place

[CreativeChaos]

I don't know, i don't believe in enneagram... I fnd it is completly bullshit.... :blush:

Hee! Yeah! I thought so too for the longest, callie. I still say it is certainly not as "scientific" as MBTI. It was generated by Russian monks, I believe, in the 1700's. Something like that. But it has some helpful things. I just read it briefly with a "if the shoe fits wear it, if not throw it away" attitude.

[CreativeChaos]

Yes, it has a vague correlation for some types. But tends to fall apart, or at least miss the mark somewhat when it comes to others.... At least that is what I found when examining it a little more deeply.

Yep. INFPs almost directly correlate with 4. INTPs almost directly correlate with 5. SPs almost directly correlate with "that hedonistic one" (I forget :blush: ). Anyway, but the majority of types don't necessarily fit.


AND it REALLY loses me when it starts with the Wings. :wacko:

[Lee]

Yep. INFPs almost directly correlate with 4. INTPs almost directly correlate with 5. SPs almost directly correlate with "that hedonistic one" (I forget :blush: ). Anyway, but the majority of types don't necessarily fit.


AND it REALLY loses me when it starts with the Wings. :wacko:

What about ENFP's CC. :lol:

[INTrPosr]

The problem arises with an extrovert who is placed in a scenario in which they have no interest or thier skills are of no use may appear introverted, when infact it is simply that thier extroversion seeks different means of expression. Extroversion can be expressed not just to other people but also to objects or devices in the enviroment, for example this later form of extroversion which could well be acossaited with an ENTP and can be mis-interpreted as introvesion. Becuase of the nature of this unsocial form of extoversion it can be difficult to observe and allows an easy mistype to be made.
I agree with you Lee and this is one main reason that I have not ruled out ENTP. In fact, I have not ruled out any type, except that I know I am not SJ.

[CreativeChaos]

What about ENFP's CC. :lol:

ENFPs typically type as an eight on the ennegram. See source below. I am a LOOOOONGNNNNNGNNGNGggggggg Way from an 8.

http://www.geocities.com/lifexplore/typecorr.htm

[Architectonic]

Which also differs a little from this attempted correlation:

http://www.ptypes.com/correspondence.html

[INTrPosr]

SPs almost directly correlate with "that hedonistic one" (I forget :blush: ).Which are usually E6, E7 and E9 on the enneagram.