BSD > Linux

[Thermo]

I learned windows, then Linux and finally Mac OS X and OpenBSD. Call me a snob, but BSD is far superior to Linux. This picture pretty much sums it up.

http://www.xs4all.nl/~marcone/bsdversuslinux.html

If this isn't enough to get the Linux users riled up, I can add some images of a daemon violating a penguin.

[mgb]

You are a snob.

[floid]

Oh, they all have their strong points:

Windows -- Eye Candy (and nothing else)
Linux -- lots of options and lots of free software (sometimes to the point of confusion)
OS X -- Ease of use for those who don't want to know what goes on inside the box. (Furthering ignorance of computers)
OpenBSD -- Runs like the energizer bunny (but looks nothing like her (http://people.freebsd.org/~wpaul/daemonette/Dcp00473.jpg))

[Sir Isaac Lime]

Different tool different job. I say BSD>Linux only in terms of elitism.

netbsd - can run on a toaster
freebsd - amazing package system/integration
openbsd - easiest to secure
linux - strong development/support base with latest wizbang features
windows - driver support, games

[Star]

Yes.

And emacs > vi.

Been a cd-buying OpenBSD user since 2.6.

Which is why I love this emoticon. :devil:

[Philo]

OS X

- More eye candy than Windows
- All kinds of free software via fink (http://fink.sourceforge.net/)
- All kinds of commercial software available
- The stability and power of BSD
- Ease of use, yet accessable to power users

Can ya guess which platform I use? :whistle:

[Sir Isaac Lime]

And emacs > vi.

vim > emacs

:mad: :rant: :angry:

[Star]

vim > emacs

I said it before, I'll say it again. vi(m) is for linux weenies. :devil:

[Sir Isaac Lime]

I said it before, I'll say it again. vi(m) is for linux weenies. :devil:

http://www.darryl.com/viman.gif

[garak]

BSD elitism has to be some of the most annoying shit EVER

(<- former netbsd user)

[Sir Isaac Lime]

BSD elitism has to be some of the most annoying shit EVER

(<- former netbsd user)

Did OS zealotry actually force you to another OS? :huh:

[Thermo]

Oh, they all have their strong points:

Windows -- Eye Candy (and nothing else)
Linux -- lots of options and lots of free software (sometimes to the point of confusion)
OS X -- Ease of use for those who don't want to know what goes on inside the box. (Furthering ignorance of computers)
OpenBSD -- Runs like the energizer bunny (but looks nothing like her)



Different tool different job. I say BSD>Linux only in terms of elitism.

netbsd - can run on a toaster
freebsd - amazing package system/integration
openbsd - easiest to secure
linux - strong development/support base with latest wizbang features
windows - driver support, games

Windows - gaming thats about it, but instability and lack of a real command line annoy me. Windows 2003 Server command line is progress, but still laughable.

OS X - Is becoming the best of both worlds. You can run most of the stuff from windows like MS Office, Cisco vpn client and some popular games. You also get native opensource like squid, bash, ntop, nessus, nmap, apache, etc.

OpenBSD - stable, secure, spartan install. The Developers are dickheads, but I don't really need them.

Linux - What does it offer aside from pioneering software for BSD? It isn't as good a gaming platform as OS X or Windows. It isn't as structured or solid as BSD.


I run my gaming on OS X and everything else on OpenBSD. I only have windows for two reasons - my wife refuses to learn something new and I need a few tools for supporting my company.

[garak]

Did OS zealotry actually force you to another OS? :huh:
No. But it is annoying and childish. I dunno how serious the OP is though.

[Thermo]

On the whole editor thing....

pico > emacs && vi[m]

I can use vi in a pinch, but I install pico on any system I manage. I guess windows ruined me for a good editor.

[Star]

OpenBSD - stable, secure, spartan install. The Developers are dickheads, but I don't really need them.


:shock: How can you say this. The developers are the best thing about OpenBSD.

I once sent a love letter to one of them. :wub:

[Sir Isaac Lime]

Windows - gaming thats about it, but instability and lack of a real command line annoy me. Windows 2003 Server command line is progress, but still laughable.

OS X - Is becoming the best of both worlds. You can run most of the stuff from windows like MS Office, Cisco vpn client and some popular games. You also get native opensource like squid, bash, ntop, nessus, nmap, apache, etc.

OpenBSD - stable, secure, spartan install. The Developers are dickheads, but I don't really need them.

Linux - What does it offer aside from pioneering software for BSD? It isn't as good a gaming platform as OS X or Windows. It isn't as structured or solid as BSD.


I run my gaming on OS X and everything else on OpenBSD. I only have windows for two reasons - my wife refuses to learn something new and I need a few tools for supporting my company.

I've been waiting to try out OS X for a while now.

And yeah, I met theo de raddt one year at defcon, and he is indeed an arrogant son of a bitch

[Star]

And yeah, I met theo de raddt one year at defcon, and he is indeed an arrogant son of a bitch

INTJ, I bet.

[Sir Isaac Lime]

:shock: How can you say this. The developers are the best thing about OpenBSD.

I once sent a love letter to one of them. :wub:

women are attracted to arrogance afterall

[Star]

women are attracted to arrogance afterall

Aw, not true. I can write an essay about why I prefer this OS and the developers, and why what's perceived as arrogance really isn't. Will do it later when I have more time. =)

The main thing is that they stick to their ideals and don't give a damn about politics or pleasing the masses.

[Sir Isaac Lime]

Aw, not true. I can write an essay about why I prefer this OS and the developers, and why what's perceived as arrogance really isn't. Will do it later when I have more time. =)

The main thing is that they stick to their ideals and don't give a damn about politics or pleasing the masses.

elitism can be a good thing sometimes.

[Thermo]

I've been waiting to try out OS X for a while now.

Take the plunge. I sweated it for a couple years until my wife convinced me to do it and haven't looked back. I convinced several of my friends and they love it. You won't be disappointed. Get the ibook at this point. I prefer very portable so I like the 12". I have a powerbook 12" G4.




How can you say this. The developers are the best thing about OpenBSD.

I once sent a love letter to one of them.

There are plenty of guys that will treat you like shit.




The main thing is that they stick to their ideals and don't give a damn about politics or pleasing the masses.

I think this is the main reason OpenBSD is technically so good. I think its also the same reason they are so unpleasant.

[Star]

There are plenty of guys that will treat you like shit.


Wha..? :blink:

If you think I am looking for a guy to treat me like shit, I am really failing to communicate here.

I am saying, this OS, that project, they are just that damned good. :)

[Thermo]

I am saying, this OS, that project, they are just that damned good.

I would completely agree with that. You said you sent a love letter.

[Star]

I would completely agree with that. You said you sent a love letter.

It was an involuntary reaction to a brilliant political move that they made.

I guess it does sound weird. :p

Smart = sexy.

[Sir Isaac Lime]

Thermo, my only hesitation is being locked into the architecture. However, if they have a quality virtual machine like VMWare available, then shit, i'd be set.



Smart = sexy.

Maybe so. Intellectual conversations certainly won't be you laid though.

[Thermo]

Sir Isaac Lime:
http://www.microsoft.com/mac/products/virtualpc/virtualpc.aspx?pid=virtualpc

[Sir Isaac Lime]

Sir Isaac Lime:
http://www.microsoft.com/mac/products/virtualpc/virtualpc.aspx?pid=virtualpc

Hmm, it seems pretty functional. I don't play any games either, so I think i'd be set for sure.

Now lets see how cheap I can find a laptop on ebay...

[Star]

Intellectual conversations certainly won't be you laid though.

(Do you mean won't -get- you laid?)

a) They have and probably will again.
b) There's more to life.
c) BSD > OSX > Linux. :devil:

[heeroyuy]

Mac os X? Stability of BSD? LOL. Sorry, excuse me, while I go laugh some more.

I ran Mac OS X fileservers, not of my own choice, with > 2000 users, they couldn't hold up! Had to reboot EVERY MORNING. I've ran greater than that on BSD boxen just fine :)

Stability of BSd? Hah!

[file cabinet]

I learned windows, then Linux and finally Mac OS X and OpenBSD. Call me a snob, but BSD is far superior to Linux. This picture pretty much sums it up.

http://www.xs4all.nl/~marcone/bsdversuslinux.html

If this isn't enough to get the Linux users riled up, I can add some images of a daemon violating a penguin.

I remember seeing both of those pictures in some crazy post on Slashdot[a ranting and raving OT post]
I wish I could comment more on the bsd vs linux thing but I don't have enough experience to say anything.. it is my understanding from other people that bsd is the best secure server environment.
I do use vim though but without having really used emacs I can't say whether it is any better or worse.

[garak]

The entire problem here is the idea of "better" and "worse." It's like MBTI, or kids -- they're just different.

[pintpi]

I can't really comment on BSD as I haven't used it my self but everything I hear about it is good. I have been thinking about trying it out though because I am getting annoyed with linux know that it has mostly been taken over by corporations. The boot up process has become a nightmare on most distributions. Securing become harder and harder, especially when I do an update and it resets all the settings back to the default, so after each update I have to search around to make sure they didn't do anything dumb. Finding configuration files is next to impossible, especially when they put multiple copies in different subdirectories of /etc and /var and I have to figure out which one is being used. I almost feel like making my own distribution, except it is too time consuming and I'm way to lazy to keep it up to data.

On the vi vs. emacs, they both suck. pico is alright but aee (http://mahon.cwx.net/) is my favorite. Doesn't have all the features some might want but has everything I have ever needed.

[file cabinet]

pintpi.. maybe you would be interested Linux From Scratch (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linux_From_Scratch) [assuming you want to stick with Linux..]? http://www.linuxfromscratch.org/
it allows you to have a much more "controlled environment" [mainly because you did everything by hand and will know where everything is]... naturally, it is more difficult to maintain.. I don't have any personal experience with it yet but I plan on doing it[downloaded all the necessary files yesterday.. I want to do it for the experience / learning].

[garak]

The base system in the BSDs is simpler and cleaner, but you'll almost certainly be installing a bunch of extra packages, and that software is the same stuff you'd run on linux. If you want super simple and clean, unix in general is not a very good solution. It's just the best compromise, for most people. (or well, for most of us nerds that actually use it)

[Thermo]

The entire problem here is the idea of "better" and "worse." It's like MBTI, or kids -- they're just different.

I disagree. Linux has a crappy design model and serves little purpose. It can be logically proven and I already made an argument for it.


The base system in the BSDs is simpler and cleaner, but you'll almost certainly be installing a bunch of extra packages, and that software is the same stuff you'd run on linux. If you want super simple and clean, unix in general is not a very good solution.

This is a main reason I like OpenBSD. The fact is you know exactly what is installed on the system and the tools included are all necesary. Compare that to Solaris or Linux that install crap you dont want or need.

[garak]

I disagree. Linux has a crappy design model and serves little purpose. It can be logically proven and I already made an argument for it.
Interesting. I thought you were being hyperbolic at the time, it seemed so over-the-top.

You said:


Linux - What does it offer aside from pioneering software for BSD? It isn't as good a gaming platform as OS X or Windows. It isn't as structured or solid as BSD.
It supports some hardware better than the BSDs. The converse is also true; it just depends on what kind of hardware you're dealing with.

The BSDs support most software just as well as Linux does, but what about people who don't only use "most" software? How about when I was playing around with Keith Packard's xserver a while back when it only ran on Linux?

The structure argument is a bit shallow since, like I mentioned, either way you'll almost always be installing 3rd party software. In the end, the organization of the base system doesn't really matter that much. Who cares who my fwrite man page was written by? I know how the feeling of consistency is nice, and I still like that about the BSDs, but it's fairly superfluous.

"Solid" is pretty nebulous. I'm not sure if you're talking about stability or what. An argument about stability is practically a red herring in my book -- all of the popular Unixes are stable, and they also have stability problems sometimes, for some people.


This is a main reason I like OpenBSD. The fact is you know exactly what is installed on the system and the tools included are all necesary. Compare that to Solaris or Linux that install crap you dont want or need.
Do you realize that by saying "linux," you're not only talking about suse and mandrake, but you're also talking about debian, slackware, and even more stripped down distros? A fresh debian install is about 100MB IIRC. That's what I always do.

I think you're pretty ridiculous for thinking that you can logically "prove" that linux is near-worthless. You act as if somehow you've found god in BSD and anyone that likes linux is obviously missing out on this big revelation. I've used both quite a bit, and I like both. I like linux a bit more.

(Actually, I like Debian more; I'd probably rather use NetBSD than non-Debian linux)

[Sir Isaac Lime]

(Do you mean won't -get- you laid?)

a) They have and probably will again.
b) There's more to life.
c) BSD > OSX > Linux. :devil:

;P

a) now imagine if you were a man...
b) of course, did I imply otherwise?
c) different tool different job

[Sir Isaac Lime]

:rant: :angry:

SCREWDRIVER > WRENCH!!!!

[pintpi]

pintpi.. maybe you would be interested Linux From Scratch (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linux_From_Scratch) [assuming you want to stick with Linux..]? http://www.linuxfromscratch.org/
it allows you to have a much more "controlled environment" [mainly because you did everything by hand and will know where everything is]... naturally, it is more difficult to maintain.. I don't have any personal experience with it yet but I plan on doing it[downloaded all the necessary files yesterday.. I want to do it for the experience / learning].
Thanks for mentioning that. I recall hearing about it but I guess I never got around to checking it out. Maintainence will be a pain but I think I'll give it a try when I manage to find the energy.

[kruT]

Some like Liquor, some like Dope.
(The laws regarding the two are asides the point.)

[Star]

You act as if somehow you've found god in BSD and anyone that likes linux is obviously missing out on this big revelation.

This is the only reason why anyone ever posts links to those stupid photos, always the kind of person who tries to gain identity from the products they use, Nike, Gap, Pepsi, Starbucks, whatever; the 'you are what you buy' type, and the kind of person who thinks his OS is a lifestyle does in fact -buy- free software even though it's not for sale.

Wasn't worth any comment at all except that I like the Geeky Gadgets forum; it's a !(intp)-free zone.

:devil: :devil:

[garak]

This is the only reason why anyone ever posts links to those stupid photos, always the kind of person who tries to gain identity from the products they use, Nike, Gap, Pepsi, Starbucks, whatever; the 'you are what you buy' type, and the kind of person who thinks his OS is a lifestyle does in fact -buy- free software even though it's not for sale.

Wasn't worth any comment at all except that I like the Geeky Gadgets forum; it's a !(intp)-free zone.

:devil: :devil:
I'm not even sure what you're saying. 8O

edit: oops, missed your edit. Still a bit confused though ;)

[Star]

I'm not even sure what you're saying. 8O

edit: oops, missed your edit. Still a bit confused though ;)

Heh, I am groggy and shouldn't be posting at all.

I am saying, OS zealots are poseurs.

Brand junkies, Naomi Klein stuff.

[garak]

Heh I am groggy and shouldn't be posting at all.

I am saying, OS zealots are poseurs.
:):)

I actually finally caught on just before your reply. I am slow after all. :p

[Sir Isaac Lime]

Yes I remember thinking how cool I was after installing OpenBSD. I wanted buy a t-shirt and everything. I still kinda want the t-shirt :)

[Star]

I'd wear an emacs t-shirt. :)

[Trolsk]

I run NetBSD on my Sparc64. When I switched to BSD, Linux systems were way messy in comparison.

[Thermo]

This is the only reason why anyone ever posts links to those stupid photos, always the kind of person who tries to gain identity from the products they use, Nike, Gap, Pepsi, Starbucks, whatever

Don't forget the type of person who tries to gain identity by bragging there lifestyle isn't tied to brand choices based on far reaching assumptions about the motivations, character, and purchasing decisions of people they barely know. *eye roll*

[garak]

Don't forget the type of person who tries to gain identity by bragging there lifestyle isn't tied to brand choices based on far reaching assumptions about the motivations, character, and purchasing decisions of people they barely know. *eye roll*
At some point we're all assuming a lot of things about each other. All we can go on is what people say in their posts. "If it walks like a duck..."

[Shadow]

I don't think it is necessarily valid to compare BSD to Linux unless you compare a universal aspect of all distributions of Linux with a universal aspect of all BSD's. My general purpose server (serving files, DNS, DHCP, etc.) runs FreeBSD 4.10, while my desktop and laptop both run Slackware 10.0 (both dual boot with Windows, as I am in now, unfortunately). Both are solid systems. Not all Linux distributions are equal, which also applies to BSD, but the diversity is not as high. Every OS has its advantages and the OS used by an individual will be either respective of those advantages or reflective of their computer illiteracy.

The real world tends not to accept Unix on the desktop as it is difficult to "train" someone to use it. Where I work, everyone seems to know everything and understand nothing. If a concept cannot be linearized into a very specific list of steps, it is a waste of time to these people. These people would rather rename 1000 files in Windows Explorer manually than to take the time to learn something easier. That is why it is important that operating systems should be designed to work together in homogenous environments along with developers producing cross-platform applications. Everyone's OS preference is different and to purposely force one OS on everyone will always cause dispute.

[Nivegna]

I use NetBSD


http://www.nixp.ru/articles/2004_unix_events/netbsd_logo_TN.jpghttp://wickedways.org/articles/netbsdlogo/netbsd_logo_toaster_72dpi.png



http://fbim.fh-regensburg.de/~feyrer/NetBSD/images/netbsd-toaster.jpg

http://fbim.fh-regensburg.de/~feyrer/NetBSD/images/allyourbase.gif

http://forums.intpcentral.com/images/smilies/duel.gif

http://www.userfriendly.org/cartoons/archives/99jul/uf000841.gif

[file cabinet]

I use NetBSD

I use pkgsrc on Slackware (although I plan to eventually switch to FreeBSD on my desktop).

[Nivegna]

I learned windows, then Linux and finally Mac OS X and OpenBSD. Call me a snob, but BSD is far superior to Linux. This picture pretty much sums it up.

http://www.xs4all.nl/~marcone/bsdversuslinux.html

.

It seems to me quite likely that you might enjoy this website then :


http://www.linuxisforbitches.com/





If this isn't enough to get the Linux users riled up, I can add some images of a daemon violating a penguin."

This should do the job exactly and them some.
_


http://fbim.fh-regensburg.de/~feyrer/NetBSD/images/netbsdiality.jpg

http://fbim.fh-regensburg.de/~feyrer/NetBSD/images/ChuckVsTux.jpg

http://fbim.fh-regensburg.de/~feyrer/NetBSD/images/daemonvpenguin.jpg

http://fbim.fh-regensburg.de/~feyrer/NetBSD/images/takeittux.jpg

http://fbim.fh-regensburg.de/~feyrer/NetBSD/images/ix0702_1024x768.jpg

[PenguinHunter]

Awww. . . Pingu. . .

[Nivegna]

Awww. . . Pingu. . .

http://fbim.fh-regensburg.de/~feyrer/NetBSD/images/no-penguin.gif

http://fbim.fh-regensburg.de/~feyrer/NetBSD/images/bsdforever.jpg

[Nivegna]

http://www.flashdance.cx/linux-bsd-babes/freebsdcanyouhandleit.jpg


http://www.linuxisforbitches.com/bsdvlinux.php

BSD

http://www.linuxisforbitches.com/imgs/daemonette.jpg


LINUX

http://www.linuxisforbitches.com/imgs/linux_nylug_booth.jpg


_______________

BSD

http://fbim.fh-regensburg.de/~feyrer/NetBSD/images/blurry-character.jpg

http://fbim.fh-regensburg.de/~feyrer/NetBSD/images/daemonbabes-and-dustpuppy.jpg