So where are you gonna move?

[Creamzsoda]

..when the shit hits the fan for America (2008 Election). There's still a smidgen of hope in a few candidates but most of them are likely to continue this countries downward spiral.

As for me..I'm still exploring options. Trying to find a country that's relatively easy to immigrate to without a degree...could be difficult. Maybe I can pass with the excuse of being a self employeed artist. Theres other factors as well such as quality of living, the government and law, economic standing, etc...

I'm pretty open to make anything work. I've just lost faith in the US and am considering bailing ship before it's too late.

[rhinosaur]

Maybe Colorado. Or Canada. Cambodia sounds good, too. Or China. I've heard California is nice. Never Connecticut, though.
But it MUST start with a C.
Because.


I've read that they speak English in Hong Kong, and the quality of life is pretty good.
Europe is probably a safer bet, economywise.

[Anonymous]

I'm going to try and wait until I at least finish my BA, but I'd prefer to wait until I've finished my masters and have a little work experience. Of course, if the shit hits the fan before that, I'll probably just go for it earlier.

And right now, I'm looking at either Norway or Finland. I'm thinking Norway, though, as I think that less of it will be underwater if global warming pans out in full force.

Out of N. America, though, and generally away from the equator. Too many diseases to worry about.

[Shoot!]

Japan or China seem like ideal places to be, especially in the more English-speaking regions. I plan on learning Japanese or Chinese anyways, so hey, why not get a head start?

[airjaw]

Its too early to bail... the US is good for another 40-50 years in my opinion..

but if you really want to leave.. I'd say any developed European or Asian country would be the ideal place to go. They're not far behind the US in terms of quality of life (actually some places probably have a better quality) and I'm sure you could survive initially by teaching english

[weebolj]

And right now, I'm looking at either Norway or Finland. I'm thinking Norway, though, as I think that less of it will be underwater if global warming pans out in full force.
Is there some particular reason why you singled out Sweden from the middle?

[weebolj]

Its too early to bail... the US is good for another 40-50 years in my opinion..

but if you really want to leave.. I'd say any developed European or Asian country would be the ideal place to go. They're not far behind the US in terms of quality of life (actually some places probably have a better quality) and I'm sure you could survive initially by teaching english
Bailing a sinking ship to go about your day teaching people how to sail it. How delightfully evil. :devil:

[563 740]

Maybe Colorado. Or Canada. Cambodia sounds good, too. Or China. I've heard California is nice. Never Connecticut, though.
But it MUST start with a C.
Because.

Costa Rica, my good chap!

[rhinosaur]

Costa Rica, my good chap!

How could I have forgotten? It's been on my "places to go" list for over thirty years.

[thod]

In the event of a nuclear exchange the sub crews were told to head to tasmania. Fertile and few people. New Zealand is the same. You can buy huge properties with your dollars.

With Oz you got vast mineral wealth but I wouldnt like the farming if we get global warming. Cant see it starving though since so few people. Can just set up solar power and farm in greenhouses. NZ has lots of food and geothermal energy.

Europe is overcrowded and expensive and you have to learn another language.

[Anonymous]

Is there some particular reason why you singled out Sweden from the middle?

I thought that Sweden was lower on the Human Development Index than Finland and Norway, but apparently Finland is at 11 and Sweden has dropped to 6, so I guess my memory was failing me. So yeah, just replace Sweden with my previous mention of Finland, although Norway, which is 2 on the list, is still my first choice. (Iceland would really be the prime pick, but you've still got the global warming and limited immigration issue)

[Sojourner]

I'm not budging until I finish my education, which definitely includes college and probably graduate school, and I like it where I am right now anyway - so unless it really gets bad, you know. But I have dual citizenship - Taiwan and US - and I can speak Chinese, so if does get that bad, I always have an easy out. Of course, if China decides to really turn up the heat on Taiwan, then that would be yet another problem...

[attila_the_hunny]

Argentina. ;)

[Oso Mocoso]

Maybe Colorado. Or Canada. Cambodia sounds good, too. Or China. I've heard California is nice. Never Connecticut, though.
But it MUST start with a C.


Costa Rica, my good chap!

Costa Rica is my pick. In terms of politics, it's basically a progressive liberal's wet dream. They outlawed the military and gave all the money to the schools, fercrissakes. When you add in global warming, who the hell knows? Most people live at really high elevations, so it's a pretty all-around pleasant climate right now.

[airjaw]

I'm not budging until I finish my education, which definitely includes college and probably graduate school, and I like it where I am right now anyway - so unless it really gets bad, you know. But I have dual citizenship - Taiwan and US - and I can speak Chinese, so if does get that bad, I always have an easy out. Of course, if China decides to really turn up the heat on Taiwan, then that would be yet another problem...

whoa sojourner.. you're chinese?

I just got back from Taiwan 2 weeks ago

[Sojourner]

whoa sojourner.. you're chinese?

I just got back from Taiwan 2 weeks ago

No, I'm Taiwanese. How was your trip? - business, pleasure, or family?, I should first ask.

[Hayquipa]

whoa sojourner.. you're chinese?


No, I'm Taiwanese.

Isn`t that the same? Taiwan belongs to China, no?:grin:

[nittanylion302]

Magyaroszag!

I'll just have to learn some Hungarian first...

[Archvile]

@nittanylion

You are not serious, are you?
.

[sandwich]

I'll spend some time in Beruit. After that, whatever trials are afoot back here will be trivial.

[Limey]

Back to England, but not before tossing a load of Starbucks coffee into Boston Harbor and spray painting a penis onto the statue of liberty...WTF, wait a minute, why am I rioting? I'm celebrating, ANYONE is better than the lame duck on Pennsylvania ave.
A living example of why nepotism=FAIL

[airjaw]

No, I'm Taiwanese. How was your trip? - business, pleasure, or family?, I should first ask.

Taiwanese, Chinese... we're all ethnically Chinese. I guess you could call yourself ethnically taiwanese if your parents have been on the island for quite some time.

my parents are from Taiwan but I consider myself ethnically Chinese.

The trip was family / pleasure. it was great.. stayed in Taipei with my relatives. Went to pao win chuan a few times.. visited Kee Long.. I also went to HK for a weekend

[563 740]

Costa Rica is my pick. In terms of politics, it's basically a progressive liberal's wet dream. They outlawed the military and gave all the money to the schools, fercrissakes. When you add in global warming, who the hell knows? Most people live at really high elevations, so it's a pretty all-around pleasant climate right now.

:yes:

Same here fer shure.

[Karl]

Oh come on. Go down with the ship. If you stay, you get to yell at people and wave signs around and stuff. It'll be great. That's my plan anyway.

[Shoot!]

Actually, I might jump ship with you guys to Costa Rica. That actually sounds pretty awesome.


Oh come on. Go down with the ship. If you stay, you get to yell at people and wave signs around and stuff. It'll be great. That's my plan anyway.

Yea. That doesn't really sound like too much fun when Big Brother overrides your signs and shouting with rubber bullets, tear gas, or riot shields.

[Meliora]

Oh come on. Go down with the ship. If you stay, you get to yell at people and wave signs around and stuff. It'll be great. That's my plan anyway.

Haha, agreed.

But if I had to move because of some seriously 1984-esque conditions arising, then I'd go for either Costa Rica, Panama, or one of the German speaking countries.

[Sojourner]

Taiwanese, Chinese... we're all ethnically Chinese. I guess you could call yourself ethnically taiwanese if your parents have been on the island for quite some time.

my parents are from Taiwan but I consider myself ethnically Chinese.
Ethnically speaking, I'm half-Chinese - my paternal grandparents are expats who identify themselves as Taiwanese.


The trip was family / pleasure. it was great.. stayed in Taipei with my relatives. Went to pao win chuan a few times.. visited Kee Long.. I also went to HK for a weekend
Nice. I'm not sure when I can next go back, myself - do you go every year?

[skip]

Yeah, that's what expat communities need. *eye roll*

>They outlawed the military

Only technically. They have a coast guard and their "national police" are responsible for defending the country and guess who supplies them? The same country that is their most important trading partner and the first place they'd run whining to if their "national police" proved ineffective at defense.

[TryIt]

So, I'm not the only one. My fellow INTP's are seeing the future as well.

I don't think "we're good" for another 40 or 50 years. Nope, not at this rate.

Where to go, where to go...I don't know. I live in a financially stable state (North Dakota), but the United States is buried in debt and financial obligation to our seniors. Is it fair to ask the country's younger people to pay for all that?

Growing up, I was so proud to be an American. Lately, I've become embarrassed.

David Walker, the nation's top accountant, tells America the truth.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KGpY2hw7ao8&NR=1

[AkuManiMani]

Oh come on. Go down with the ship. If you stay, you get to yell at people and wave signs around and stuff. It'll be great. That's my plan anyway.

I would love, more than anything, to have a nice safe vantage point to eat popcorn, look down as the world we know burns, and laugh saying "I toldja so".

Fools and lemmings, all!

[Ariel]

Oh come on. Go down with the ship. If you stay, you get to yell at people and wave signs around and stuff. It'll be great. That's my plan anyway.

:highfive:

[airjaw]

So, I'm not the only one. My fellow INTP's are seeing the future as well.

I don't think "we're good" for another 40 or 50 years. Nope, not at this rate.

Where to go, where to go...I don't know. I live in a financially stable state (North Dakota), but the United States is buried in debt and financial obligation to our seniors. Is it fair to ask the country's younger people to pay for all that?

Growing up, I was so proud to be an American. Lately, I've become embarrassed.

David Walker, the nation's top accountant, tells America the truth.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KGpY2hw7ao8&NR=1

What makes you so sure that America is doomed? I know we're going downhill right now, but with a Democrat in the White house in 08.. I'm pretty sure things can turn around. Americans are resilient.

[sinnamon]

with a Democrat in the White house in 08..

:dieemo:

[Ariel]

What makes you so sure that America is doomed? I know we're going downhill right now, but with a Democrat in the White house in 08.. I'm pretty sure things can turn around. Americans are resilient.
Unfortunately, they can also be stupid. Like I said before, I'm probably staying here for good, but if McCain gets elected for capturing the public's attention, then it'll take some grit to weather his reign of idiocy.

If that happens... well, I was invited to and might attend the Inauguration Ball (because I'm a student and I guess I did well on some standardized test) so maybe I'll take a gun with me... or I could just use my fists...

[Ariel]

:dieemo:
I don't like you anymore.

[sinnamon]

I don't like you anymore.

:rofl:

[Ariel]

And you live in the South. :sick:

[sinnamon]

... I was invited to and might attend the Inauguration Ball...so maybe I'll take a gun with me... or I could just use my fists...

Dude, that's the kind of thing that'll get the black helicopters after your ass.:dont:

[Ariel]

Dude, that's the kind of thing that'll get the black helicopters after your ass.:dont:Probably. And my ass is brown and Muslim in descent, so I'll probably end up in Guantanamo...

Okay, so maybe I'll just administer the Evil Eye and fart loudly during their speech.

You're spoiling my fun you wretched Southerner.

[sinnamon]

Probably. And my ass is brown and Muslim in descent, so I'll probably end up in Guantanamo...

Okay, so maybe I'll just administer the Evil Eye and fart loudly during their speech.

You're spoiling my fun you wretched Southerner.

:nono:

I know you're trying to upset me, but I'm having a really hard time taking you seriously. But I guess it's only fair for you to make stereotypical judgments about me as a southerner. I know I'm doing the same about you, knowing you're just a 17 year old kid. :smooch:

[Ariel]

:nono:

I know you're trying to upset me, but I'm having a really hard time taking you seriously. But I guess it's only fair for you to make stereotypical judgments about me as a southerner. I know I'm doing the same about you, knowing you're just a 17 year old kid. :smooch:But it was a jest. I guess I should have clarified my tone... but what's this about you taking me seriously because I am 17? :grin:

[fresh]

...at the rate i'm going, a trailer park. :(

[Zephyrus055]

Argentina. ;)
Wow! I'm considering Argentina too.

Just recently I decided to check Buenos Aires out. I found the prospect of moving there really good! I even looked at upscale areas such as Ricoleta, and some places there are easily affordable for me. They have some really nice apartments, and it's a nice location. I'm only concerned that I don't speak Spanish.

I also found some suburban real estate that looked even better. A 5000 sq foot house for 300k. It has a gate, pool, and maids quarters! w00t! If I move there, I might get a place with a deal like that. What's even better is that the University there is free and of good quality! Damn, I could live a leisurely life dedicated to learning.

I like Argentina. But I still have concerns like crime, crappy banks and supposedly poor real estate agents. The language is also an issue, I can only speak English.

There's also the risk of you and Madrigal assembling a communist mob to kill or rob me or something.

[attila_the_hunny]

There's also the risk of you and Madrigal assembling a communist mob to kill or rob me or something.

:ph34r:

Anyway, I loved Buenos Aires...I went there during the summer and it was wonderful. Naturally, I loved the exchange rate and most people there were pretty helpful when it came to navigation and even with the language barrier. They were nicer there than NYC, anyway. I'd imagine after living there for a while you'd have a decent grasp of Spanish and I know if I stayed there for a long period of time I'd probably pick up an accent.

I was alone most of the time if I wasn't with the commie and no one seemed to bother me, aside from a couple who wanted to sell me cocaine and a drunk guy who wanted to teach me Spanish :rolleyes2:

I probably wouldn't keep all of my money in a bank there and there are plenty of resources from expats on the internet who refer real estate companies, health insurance, etc. One of the reasons why places there seem cheaper than here is because they don't do mortgages--you have to pay it all up front.

The only thing about the UBA is Madrigal told me they put you in groups to do projects, presumably since so many people attend there. I'd like to go there and study so I plan on taking Spanish in the fall.

[airjaw]

I don't think Spanish is hard to learn. If you are going to permanently move to Argentina, you will pick up the language (and culture) over the years.

Moving to Asia and fitting in is another story. You will always stick out due to the color of your skin; you don't have the benefits of any of the languages being romance languages, which means you probably can't read or understand most of what you hear. and the culture is very different.

[Zephyrus055]

:ph34r:

Anyway, I loved Buenos Aires...I went there during the summer and it was wonderful. Naturally, I loved the exchange rate and most people there were pretty helpful when it came to navigation and even with the language barrier. They were nicer there than NYC, anyway. I'd imagine after living there for a while you'd have a decent grasp of Spanish and I know if I stayed there for a long period of time I'd probably pick up an accent.

I was alone most of the time if I wasn't with the commie and no one seemed to bother me, aside from a couple who wanted to sell me cocaine and a drunk guy who wanted to teach me Spanish :rolleyes2:

I probably wouldn't keep all of my money in a bank there and there are plenty of resources from expats on the internet who refer real estate companies, health insurance, etc. One of the reasons why places there seem cheaper than here is because they don't do mortgages--you have to pay it all up front.

The only thing about the UBA is Madrigal told me they put you in groups to do projects, presumably since so many people attend there. I'd like to go there and study so I plan on taking Spanish in the fall.
Awesome! It's nice to hear from someone who has had first hand experience visiting there. Are you planning to work there, or are you like me and are thinking about early retirement?

At least the language barrier wasn't too much of a bad deal in the city. I suppose I can deal with group work, although it does mean I need to learn Spanish. How many semesters would you recommend? Or should I just get a basic grasp of Spanish and then experience will get me going?

When you visited did you get your own apartment? How much was it? And most apartments online seem directed at tourists and not living residents, or is it normal for Argentine apartments to only give weekly and monthly rates w/o a several month to a year lease?

Aside from paying your housing costs (rent), how many $ does it take to live comfortably for the week? I mean groceries, travel expenses, and maybe a dining out etc. Also, how much money does it cost to eat out at a relatively nice restaurant?

And what should I do with my money? I hear their banks suck. They are slow to sign you up and they take 10% off what you deposit in $. Is TCF or some other American banks stationed there?

[attila_the_hunny]

Awesome! It's nice to hear from someone who has had first hand experience visiting there. Are you planning to work there, or are you like me and are thinking about early retirement?

At least the language barrier wasn't too much of a bad deal in the cities. I suppose I can deal with group work, although it does mean I need to learn Spanish. How many semesters would you recommend? Or should I just get a basic grasp of Spanish and then experience will get me going?

When you visited did you get your own apartment? How much was it? And most apartments online seem directed at tourists and not living residents, or is it normal for Argentine apartments to only give weekly and monthly rates w/o a several month to a year lease?

Aside from paying your housing costs (rent), how many $ does it take to live comfortably for the week? I mean groceries, travel expenses, and maybe a dining out etc. Also, how much money does it cost to eat out at a relatively nice restaurant?

I don't think I could work in a place where I know I could make more in my native country. I was thinking about go on assignments in the US for half a year and rent it out and just going back and doing school and enjoy myself the other half of the year.

We rented an apartment with three bedrooms and it was about $1400 for two weeks, but I'd imagine you could get nice apartment for one person for about $600 with expenses included (or pay them, I'd imagine they're pretty cheap). We stayed in Palermo and it was nice neighborhood.

I've also looked through websites and I concur that most of them are marketed toward tourists as opposed to interested buyers, but as far as I know it's not uncommon for them to rent like we do here--a lease and monthly rent (I think getting out of leases are easier than here. ;)). However, if you buy a place there and rent it out, I'd imagine you could make back what you spent in three years or so if it's a nice neighborhood. In a tour we had the average person in Argentina makes $500. Recoleta is the priciest place to live, I think.

We went to a fabulous restaurant (there are so many) and there were 5 of us eating steak with a couple sides and lots of beer. I think it was about $120. I think I had about $500 for two weeks and had a field day with that. I'd imagine if you were sorta frugal you could live half of that. A decent meal out for two is about $25 and the priciest cab ride I had was about $3. We used our money for luxuries and mostly ate a $3.50 pizza that is supposed to be crappy but tastes better than Pizza Hut/Domino's. A pack of cigarettes is a little over $1 and I think I saw gas being $1.60-something in Argentine money.

Also, they don't really tip. I apparently tipped like I do in the US and I was informed it's usually customary to just round up (I tipped a cabbie about 5 pesos and he was pretty happy with that). All the cabs I had were pretty reliable and I'd probably never bother to own a car there given the fact cabs are everywhere and affordable. Public transportation is a little scary--Madrigal thought it would be cute to take me on a bus and I had my ass hanging out because it was so packed. Then she took me to a subway that was ancient and you open and close the doors yourself.

Since I never went to school there (and if I did, it would be just for fun), I have no idea, but I have looked at UBA online and even thought it has an English website, I think knowing Spanish would be beneficial to your education.

Well, this a fucking long post, so I'll stop now.

[amazingkae]

Water... city... somewhere good.

Warm is better but too hot is no good.

If the economy is good, I'm all good.

If not, worst case scenario I end up living on the boat. [That would be not good. Need bigger boat.]