Second impressions: how to make them happen first

[Ponderous]

I have a recurring theme in my life.

When I get involved with a group (work, hobby, whatever), for a time I'm in a mode of sit back and take it in. I get to know people. I speak when needed. I evaluate the surroundings, the culture, the expectations, the needs they recognize or don't; I evaluate stuff.

I do not believe that I am holding back. Like I said, I do speak up when needed. After a time people tell me something like, "We always appreciate having you here, whatever you say is important." Well, what would have been the point of saying something unimportant?

Then something happens. I get to know the people, surroundings, and quench my curiosity. I feel comfortable with the group/team/environment and understand its needs. Then I speak up more frequently, then my sarcasm comes out, then my ideas are more often on loud speaker when they are formed rather than when they are thought-through.

And then it happens. Someone (usually a leader of the group) will tell me privately, "You're louder than you were before. You've changed/grown a lot since you got here." (Unspoken: this group/relationship/etc. has been good for you.)

I do not perceive that I have changed. As a matter of fact, I have not changed, I am still me. They just didn't know me before. They know me now.

Here's my frustration: I've been aware of this phenomenon for many years. I don't recall the first time I heard it, but I do recall a couple of years back making a decision that I would to try to enter new programs/jobs/etc. appearing more like the second me than the first me.

No go. Just last year I heard it, and I was really making an effort that time. Then just this past Friday my new boss (who has known me about a year) said it again.

Is it possible to overcome this? Note what they are saying is:
1. I'm speaking louder. I'm out of energy on this topic. I know I tend to speak softly. Get a hearing aid.
2. I'm different. I'm not.

I'm sure I'm not the only INTP who has experienced this. Your thoughts?

[pangolin]

I don't think my experience is just the same, but I usually have the same modus operandi that you described. I start by watching and then become more interactive later. I also usually encounter a change in relationship around the same time, but basically people stop liking me when I start being more comfortable, so I have come to the conclusion that I should just always maintain reserve.

[s0978]

yep. I feel like it took me many years of practicing putting forward second-impression mode, as you call it, to be able to not be totally uncomfortable being more expressive and personable with strangers than I'd be naturally inclined. Lots of presentations and meeting clients and shiz. And sometimes I still can't muster it up. I'm really just glad I can front it when I absolutely have to.

[Ponderous]

yep.
Thanks


I feel like it took me many years of practicing putting forward second-impression mode, as you call it, to be able to not be totally uncomfortable being more expressive and personable with strangers than I'd be naturally inclined.
Any chance I could get a time estimate here? :)

Actually, I'm very comfortable in front of a group or giving presentations. It's like you say though, it's necessary to make a conscious effort to pull that off in an intimate setting in front of strangers.

Plus I'm a little frustrated that I feel like I have tried (repeatedly), but not succeeded.

[s0978]

Any chance I could get a time estimate here? :)hm, I remember interviewing at some temp agency and being told I could really benefit by loosening up and being more myself. That's probably when I first seriously considered the thing. And that was probably some college summer, which was, um, a long time ago. I also remember doing quite well with presentations in college, but it wasn't until the end of a 4 yr grad program (requiring several presentations a week) that I would actually crack jokes or whatever. I think I was probably somewhat dry and robotic before. Then there was 4 yrs in an extrovert's job- uh wait a sec, I'm still in my twenties, I swear. (NOT.)


Plus I'm a little frustrated that I feel like I have tried (repeatedly), but not succeeded.well, you're only getting better, though!

[kuranes]

I think you were right to pursue the "ease in" strategy you originally used, when you're in a new "people environment", if I understand your OP correctly. Let them think that you "changed" later, when, in fact, you had always had those capabilities.

[panda]

This is something I'm dealing with. When encountering a new group (actually, any group, but in particular strangers) I tend to slip into a hyper-aware mindset, motivated in part by a sort of Machiavellianism. The end result is that I often fall back on old habits, which, in my case, means lying and manipulation. That may sound funny or stupid (which it is) but it is often, ultimately (and obviously), counterproductive to any real camaraderie, which can make for a lonely life. Unfortunately, it's a habit that has proven difficult for me to break.

So, I don't have any positive input, but it's an interesting thread.

[Ponderous]

Then there was 4 yrs in an extrovert's job
Hmmm, that does remind me... I did multi-level-marketing a couple of times. Of course the folks I worked with/who were training me had the experience I described. However, I had to learn to be myself more quickly with new people -- otherwise I'd have no fresh prospects. I think, in part, I was able to do that because I acquired familiarity with how to do it though, giving less impact to the "talking to someone new" part.

But that was then. As soon as I gave it up, I purged the skill from my repertoire. I guess the thing was, it gave me a reason to approach new people; a reason I lack today.

well, you're only getting better, though!
Thanks for the encouragement!

I think you were right to pursue the "ease in" strategy you originally used, when you're in a new "people environment", if I understand your OP correctly. Let them think that you "changed" later, when, in fact, you had always had those capabilities.
I expect that it will long be a thing of mine to walk into a room and take in everything there; join a new group and take in everything there.

To some degree though, in most of the situations I've described, this has happened during some program/job that *potentially could have* helped me grow. I'm sure in ways I did, but not in the way that is being perceived.

I'd kind of like to experience it when they can see me for who I am up front and see how that differs from this "blossoming" effect that I seem to portray.

[puzzled-observer]

I don't think my experience is just the same, but I usually have the same modus operandi that you described. I start by watching and then become more interactive later. I also usually encounter a change in relationship around the same time, but basically people stop liking me when I start being more comfortable, so I have come to the conclusion that I should just always maintain reserve.

+1. I think what I've been doing lately is kind of gaging their reaction to me being louder when I do it. And if the reaction is positive, then i proceed to be come more and more like myself. If not, stay reserved and simply extract what it is i want out of the relationship.

[kuranes]

I'd kind of like to experience it when they can see me for who I am up front and see how that differs from this "blossoming" effect that I seem to portray.

OK. I guess I misunderstood.

I thought the reason you were doing "first impression" was just to buy time in which to assess the politics of the new situation, let others see you "paying your dues" etc. and then step it up a notch ( unless the point being discussed was especially important to you, of course ) when you feel the time is right, strategically.

[Ariel]

I always speak up, but my problem is the opposite of yours.

At first, I mold in; I'm a natural chameleon and I make a great impression, but as I get more comfortable, I become more stoic, I show my true colors. People don't like that as much.

Thankfully, I'm still a loudmouth when it comes to ideas, opinions, and administrations, so it doesn't affect my work. Just the people. I guess we just have to deal with it lest we want to change who we are.

[sandwich]

I completely identify with this, though I usually don't see it as a negative since I can "gather information" well while under the radar. Whenever I try to expedite the process I trip over my own feet or put my foot in my mouth. Or anything else that can relate to feet and awkwardness.

I find it interesting to see who uses this pattern when joining the forum. Many members have successfully post-whored from the beginning while others, such as myself, wait several months to start the forum-spammage. If this is consistent with their RL behavior, then it isn't necessarily an INTP or an age/experience trait since it has varied with both variables.

[Ponderous]

Whenever I try to expedite the process I trip over my own feet or put my foot in my mouth. Or anything else that can relate to feet and awkwardness.

Hmmm. A warning to consider.

[s0978]

I think, in part, I was able to do that because I acquired familiarity with how to do it though, giving less impact to the "talking to someone new" part.

But that was then. As soon as I gave it up, I purged the skill from my repertoire.

Yes, I go through phases when I'm inclined to be better and worse at it, and incentive can seem to be an important part of the equation. It's interesting, though, that it may be an INTP thing (NT?) to look at it as a skill set in some detached fashion. It was a large part of how I justified that extrovert work to myself, it was time I was spending on learning people skills.

[Ponderous]

You're right. Even though we have the term, "people skills," most folks probably think of it as "stuff that comes naturally."

My boss's boss, an INTP, has a habit when hearing bad news of making groans or saying, "unbelievable." Because of his position in the corporation, he has the opportunity to hear bad news pretty often, and in the company of others. His groan and "unbelievable" are legendary. However, when someone pointed each of these things out to him (at different times), his response was, "I do that? Really?"

Makes me wonder what it would be like to watch a video of myself trying to make a second impression first, since I think I've really tried to be myself from the start in recent situations where I've been later told that I "blossomed." Would I see what others have seen?

[Hi-meh]

I'm the same way as well, and I've been trying to get the second part of me to come out, but it's like pulling teeth. Although, due to recent expereinces, I would say the second half can come out much more quickly if the right person(s) are there to open the door.

I've been involved with this particular group of people for over a year now. In fact, a situation in which I see them generally once a week, if not twice and still I know that they do not know the other me. Little by little though, they are getting bits of the other half, and I'm sure this could be equated to the "second me." Yet, when I take into consideration other individuals in which I've known a much shorter amount of time (3mos?), then I know those people have seen a side of me that the the "one year group" hasn't.

I would like to note, that even when around people who generally only now know the "second me" I can and do switch back to the first me and I get asked why I'm being so quiet and not saying anything. This can also happen when I meet a new person that is in a group in which I'm already very outspoken, and the question will still be brought up on why I'm not talking. Analyzing the new information perhaps?

Hopefully the second me will be readily on tap for a Pondy Spring Time.

[Ponderous]

Hopefully the second me will be readily on tap for a Pondy Spring Time.

I expect you'll be fine. :-)

Bring some of your photos!!

[s0978]

Makes me wonder what it would be like to watch a video of myself trying to make a second impression first, since I think I've really tried to be myself from the start in recent situations where I've been later told that I "blossomed." Would I see what others have seen?

Interesting hypothetical scenario. But clearly the "blossoming" thing irritates you because you see a difference between your getting comfortable with a group of people and the implication that you've improved as a consequence of their influence on you, sort of like they take the credit. Which your POV probably wouldn't change if you watched you.

But you probably would see how you weren't being you when you thought you were being you.

:headphone:

[Hi-meh]

Bring some of your photos!!


Oh, my first fan, how nice. :wub:

[Last Song]

How can a second anything happen first?!

[Ponderous]

Just got some additional insight from a new member. Posted with permission:


I read you're thread...
here it is explained what is happening in you're example :

http://greenlightwiki.com/lenore-exe...ary_Temptation

The reason people say you are two different persons is because you're basically using different functions.

[Titania]

Meh, I don't believe the "two different functions" thing, but I do believe that people are essentially "different people" in different situations. Yeah, you have changed from one meeting to the next, your behavior is different, and people do have to reevaluate.

I have that, I'm pretty cool with it. The same me which wants to observe people I basically don't know is fine with people I do know, and people who aren't fine with that process wouldn't get the amount of privacy or autonomy I need anyway.