Where does art come from?

[earwax]

Here's one I've been thinking about lately. And, seeing as how we have a lot of artists and musicians here, I'll throw it out there.

Where does art come from?

What I mean is - as a songwriter I have written songs that are not really what I would choose to write. They seem to come from somewhere else. Sometimes I like them, sometimes I don't.

And as a musician there are times when I seem to "tap into" something and play things that are beyond my normal abilities.

Anybody else experience the same phenomenon in their "expression of choice"? If so, what do you think is going on? Are we tapping into something outside or inside ourselves?

[Trolsk]

Art comes from our humanly subjective nature in terms of interpretion and expression.

[Shai Gar]

art comes from two places E and I (not just the one)

Extraverted art is stuff like portraits, landscapes and that (most of my favourite art is extraverted landscapes) albert nambitjera is a good E artist

Intraverted art is the rest of it, this springs from inside you like your interperitation of landscapes (monet) and your feelings about things, then there is simple imaginative art like Eschers artwork. hell that is the short answer.

some dipshits think that art comes from a muse, they are wrong, art comes from your id or ego i cannot remember which is which.

[earwax]

Art comes from our humanly subjective nature in terms of interpretion and expression.

So, are we tapping into our own unconscious and digging out things that we may have suppressed for whatever reason?

[earwax]

... some dipshits think that art comes from a muse, they are wrong, art comes from your id or ego i cannot remember which is which.

I hear the word "muse" thrown around a lot. Don't know that I buy it... Although there are times that it certainly "feels" like it comes from somewhere else.

[Shai Gar]

a part of your psyche that you have as yet not tapped.

or perhaps you are slightly psychic and are picking up other peoples thoughts

[earwax]

a part of your psyche that you have as yet not tapped.

or perhaps you are slightly psychic and are picking up other peoples thoughts

Don't know about psychic... maybe psychotic. :blink:

[tragula]

it does come from someplace else.

Definitely not ego or id.

It comes from the spiritual parts of our brain that are connected to the collective unconscious.

That's why artists shouldn't take a lot of credit or blame for their work.

[Lee]

I would suggests art is a form of expression that appeals to the instinctual desires of the human subconscious (id) while avoiding the condeming and watchful eye of our conciounce (super-ego).

The differing compositions and tolerance levels of these two faculties produce many varying art forms.

Our taste in art is also largely down to our neurophysiology, various different parts of our brain control artistic functions such as musical, visual-spatial, language etc. our prefferred and most active regions will no doubt produce a greater appreciation of various forms of art and ability to compose and create.

Emotions are of course of the utmost importance, do we desire calm, excitment, love, anger etc. emotions control our preference for various art forms and genres within them, some people seek to change thier current emotional state while others wish to use art as a reflective medium. The emotive of this world seem to be the most susepteble to artistic power, again neurophysiology such as a hyper-active limbic system and possibly over-active amygdala could create a person who stongly responds to the artistic world and may experience strong emotional states in relation to the art in question.

Art as a medium seems to have it's evolutionary roots in communication and group bonding, symbolic references and pictoral images are signposts and methods in which human beings as social animals could interact and relate. Music could well have had it's origion in group bonding as in most cultures music, dance and group activity are considered inseperable as well as music and dances ability to train the mind and body to work as one. Language skills, and ultimately languages offshoot - the written word see's it's roots in basic forms of aural expression by primitive man in order to convey meaning and ideas. What is interesting is that almost any faculty considered useful in a artistic sphere has it's origins in discrete areas of the human brain, suggesting our past has evolved these abilities diectly for specific purposes.

Well these are some theory's anyway....

[Shai Gar]

spiritual? what have you been smoking tragula? the "spiritual" part of our mind is that part where we are searching for a hot waterbottle to make the night seem less cold, when we should be looking for truth.

and artists should take all the credit, they thought it up and then it was THEIR ability to paint, sculpt whatever that put that idea to canvas

[Lee]

it does come from someplace else.

Definitely not ego or id.

It comes from the spiritual parts of our brain that are connected to the collective unconscious.

That's why artists shouldn't take a lot of credit or blame for their work.

You sound like Jung

I sound like Freud

No I do not think those bones you discovered in the basement are an archetypal representation of primitive man ;)

[Shai Gar]

he sounds like a crackhead. but then so did jung i guess.
though it was jung who gave us MBTI


there is no collective unconsiousness, our minds are all alone unless connected by some empathic link. the mind operates due to stimulus, structure and observations. and that is how art forms, there is no matrix of minds. just the minds matrix

[pintpi]

That is funny that collective unconsciousness came up in this thread I just commented on it in another thread.

Having only read little bits and pieces of Jung's work, I got the impression that he wasn't implying a supernatural or spiritual kind of collective unconsciousness. I think he saw it as wholely based on our shared genetics although I don't think he ever stated it that way because genetics was just getting started back then but I think he saw a connection between all humans that comes from our common ancestry.

I'm not sure that has a whole lot to do with art but it certainly has something to do with our common appreciation for art as well as our ability to distiguish between art and non-art (if there is such a thing as non-art).

Personally I think art is connected to S/N but I'm not sure exactly how at the moment. I have just noticed that Ss are very good at creating artistic things that are very realistic down to the very fine details. Also ISFPs are called artists, so there might be a hint in there.

[Lee]

That is funny that collective unconsciousness came up in this thread I just commented on it in another thread.

How applicable to this discussion. :)


Having only read little bits and pieces of Jung's work, I got the impression that he wasn't implying a supernatural or spiritual kind of collective unconsciousness. I think he say it as wholely based on our shared genetics although I don't think he ever stated it that way because genetics was just getting started back then but I think he saw a connection between all humans that comes from our common ancestry.

I always remember Jung telling of a story of how he woke up suddenly one night with a great pain in the back of his head only to discover the next day that an ex-patient had shot himself in the back of the head the night before.
Note: time frames are probably wrong in this story, but point stands regardles.

I always found this story to be perticularily odd :huh:

I must say I have always struggled to reconcile the whole SP/N thing when it comes to art.

[Shai Gar]

i think jung made up that story

[pintpi]

I always remember Jung telling of a story of how he woke up suddenly one night with a great pain in the back of his head only to discover the next day that an ex-patient had shot himself in the back of the head the night before.
Note: time frames are probably wrong in this story, but point stands regardles.

I always found this story to be perticularily odd :huh:
Yea stories like that are odd and quite confusing to my analytical ability but I generally "explain" stories like that by recongnizing how much influence intuition has on me. Our intuition gives us all kinds of very subtle hints about things, especially other people and perhaps during a previous meeting with the patient Jung's intuition picked up signals from the patient that Jung's consciousness never really noticed. It is hard to explain the pain but since it was at night, I think it would be reasonable to see a connection to dreams here, which as Jung states are heavily influenced by intuition. I think Jung would probably explain it in a similar way.

Here are some wikis that give an overviews of Collective Consciousness (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Collective_unconscious) and how it is connected to Archetypes (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Archetype). Where it is suggested that archtypes "arising at least partially through evolutionary processes". I would be very interested in any links that suggest Jung did actually believe in some sort of supernatural or spiritual realm. Not that I'm sure he didn't but he seems to be to analytical to believe in such things.

[Lee]

I would be very interested in any links that suggest Jung did actually believe in some sort of supernatural or spiritual realm. Not that I'm sure he didn't but he seems to be to analytical to believe in such things.
Jung always seemed torn on this, when I was reading Memories, Dreams, Reflections he kept veering from analytic mode to an almost mystical otherworldly version of existence that seemed very illogical, Jung believed things frequently, some things that he had little evidence to back up, faith sometimes seemed more important.

Just my opinion from reading a few of his books, he was clearly an intelligent man however I find him not to be as great as some suggest, there are also some interesting studies that suggest a darker, less well known side to Jung and his co-operation with the Nazi's.

SP's tend to be the best artists for details and often capturing a scene or drawing a cartoon, N's tend to create work that is meant to work on some deeper level.

[elijahlucian]

hey i was listening to an audiobook about the superconciousness... it actually made a lot of sense. because as a musician as well i can relate to wondering where it all comes from. you know, its not a technical art as some believe. but it makes sense that you're tapping into the conciousnesses of the world. as weird as it seems... haha

its too late to think. hahaha if i dig up the audiobook ill pass it on... its an interesting theory nevertheless.