Australian food and toilets and everything else kicks americas arse

[Shai Gar]

i couldnt be arsed to write up something like the american kicking the rest of the worlds, but australian food and state of toilets go beyond americas, so do our personal freedoms, our state of life, our political freedoms, hell most things in australia kicks americas arse

England spawned Australia, england got overcrowded and now australia rules the world as the greatest nation on earth. the only two things america can win with is their military and subversive economic policies

[Division56]

Do not even get me started on Gay Rights and Australia's Religious Right.

[Star]

Your Woomera kicks our Guantanamo Bay's ass. :(

edit: It even has its own game! (http://www.escapefromwoomera.org/)

[Division56]

I wouldn't mind going to Bondi Beach though.... it is -15 C here...


*strips down*

No tan lines!

[Thermo]

i couldnt be arsed to write up something like the american kicking the rest of the worlds, but australian food and state of toilets go beyond americas, so do our personal freedoms, our state of life, our political freedoms, hell most things in australia kicks americas arse

When you get your toilets flushing the right way we can talk. I am still mad at you for sending us Paul Hogan. However, I am still talking to you because you gave us Outback restraunts with the blooming onion.



England spawned Australia, england got overcrowded and now australia rules the world as the greatest nation on earth. the only two things america can win with is their military and subversive economic policies

While I disagree with alot of things our Idiot in Chief has done, I have to disagree with you. First, America isn't exactly sneaky about pursuing its interests. Second, We have the cash and the military. Most countries around the world depend on the US in some way. It is a form of welfare. If you are going to stick around to accept our foodstamps, then don't complain when we tell you what to do. If you are unhappy, then don't take our money or military aid.

[Shai Gar]

our gay rights and religious right is very very much toned down compared to teh US's
the us president recently signed a bill makign gay marriage illegal
our PM hasnt and wont do anything like that.
woomera exists to the shame of australia, guitmo seems to exist with the pride of the US
the US will not let anyone go in there or even allow there them legal representation, they get tortured and they have not stated any time for release
in woomera human rights groups go in all the time will unlimited access, so do news groups, they have the rights to legal council as aliens, australian soldiers dont torture them the worst that can be said is that they dont let them free in australia. but they do give them the option of going home to their native country, or sitting in woomera untill they get afforded residency.

wow, i win on both HAH.

[Shai Gar]

When you get your toilets flushing the right way we can talk. I am still mad at you for sending us Paul Hogan. However, I am still talking to you because you gave us Outback restraunts with the blooming onion. aww diddums doesnt like paul hogan? neither do i lock him up in guitmo under charges of being a terrorist



While I disagree with alot of things our Idiot in Chief has done, I have to disagree with you. First, America isn't exactly sneaky about pursuing its interests. Second, We have the cash and the military. Most countries around the world depend on the US in some way. It is a form of welfare. If you are going to stick around to accept our foodstamps, then don't complain when we tell you what to do. If you are unhappy, then don't take our money or military aid.
america is being sneaky to the american people, i disagree with that, hell so is the aussie govt but our sneakyness doesnt enslave people
yes you have the cash and military, doesnt mean people want your foodstamps, their governments that seem to be wings of the US foreign affairs and trade department, and they take the US foodstamps in teh form of free trade which isnt free. and the people of these nations oppose their nations trading with the US, untill US support has them slaughtered (anyone heard of sumatra, east timor, kurdish and turkish offenses)

[Thermo]

1. america is being sneaky to the american people, i disagree with that, hell so is the aussie govt but our sneakyness doesnt enslave people

I wouldn't say they are sneaky, more that the american public is dumb. As for Gitmo, I could care less about the rights of Taliban and Al-Qaeda terrorists. I sleep well at night knowing they are locked up and, hopefully wont be let out or will die at Gitmo.

Furthermore, no terrorist in there right mind wants to attack Australia, because all you have are kangaroos and boomerangs. I guess its alot easier to be indignant when you don't face the threat of terrorism and you haven't had friends die from terrorist attacks.



2. yes you have the cash and military, doesnt mean people want your foodstamps, their governments that seem to be wings of the US foreign affairs and trade department, and they take the US foodstamps in teh form of free trade which isnt free. and the people of these nations oppose their nations trading with the US, untill US support has them slaughtered (anyone heard of sumatra, east timor, kurdish and turkish offenses)

If the Australian government is elected, then you do have control over whether you take our foodstamps or not. I am not aware of any country turning away US aid. I am aware of many countries that take our foodstamps and then complain about the US. A good example is South Korea. They bitched about US policy, but when we offered to take US troops out all of the sudden we were there best friends. You should be thanking me for the tax dollars I gave so you could have a better quality of life.

["InsertNameHere"]

ummmmm...have we forgotten that Australia was colonized by English criminals...?

[Shai Gar]

i was wondering when that would come up, and to forestall any discussion on the subject some of my own ancestors were convicts, they were sent to a fate worse than death for opposing british imperialism in ireland, and one count of stealing 50 quid from an english official in a highwaymans raid.

now back to the thread. i have discounted a lot of your own opinion thermo for believing that the people you have in gitmo are terrorists, sure there may be some, but a vast majority are not. and have you heard of the bali bombings? a lot of aussies died there, but mostly there are not many terrorist attacks because a vast majority of the australians opposed the australian foreign policies and americas. we sympathise a lot of the times with the plight of those you deem terrorists.

i dont need friends having to die to tell me terrorism is bad, but one of my friends is in gitmo right now, his name is david hicks, he doesnt know me but nevertheless i consider him a friend, and have donated a fair chunk of cash to get him legal council. guess daves crime? he was a mercenary punishable by 2 years in an australian jail, minimum security. nor do i even consider the "one of my friends died in the WTC so i find it fair to be racist and prejudicial" to be a good backing for argument.

i have a better life due to you? i think not. my money certainly comes from teh government but none of that comes from you, in fact australia receives very very very little to no fiscal aid from the US. it is all home grown, we are a pretty strong nation economically. and the US never wanted the army out of south korea, though the people of south korea did and still do.

people who turn away US aid get sanctions, 52% of the world has US sanctions

["InsertNameHere"]

I must say no gov't is better than the next nowadays. Overall the world is run by the same people. They create wars and social disorder to gain more power over us, so sooner or later we'll relinquish all our freedom for OUR own country's good...


wow, what am i talking about? i think i drank to much cough syrup

[Shai Gar]

new zealands government and finlands, and hollands seem to be far better than australias, and americas and englands. and i say that knowing i just called new zealand better than australia. thought i didnt cause we have a better country they just have a better democracy and government

[Shai Gar]

yes i believe you americans would sacrifice your freedom for security contrary to the INTP thomas jefferson's saying that "those who sacrifice freedom for security deserve neither" and it is my belief that they generally get neither

["InsertNameHere"]

yes i believe you americans would sacrifice your freedom for security contrary to the INTP thomas jefferson's saying that "those who sacrifice freedom for security deserve neither" and it is my belief that they generally get neither
nope

[Shai Gar]

yep. patriot act.
though if i am at all even slightly wrong it would be because americans dont kill their president, they try democratic means. they fail

["InsertNameHere"]

some stupid midwestern fool voted for that...damn ignorant cow tipping, church is my god, idiots...I'm leaving the country anyways...as soon as i win the lotto...buy my own damn island and build my bomb shelter

[Shai Gar]

remember it needs to be a gigantic bomb shelter. and you need to stack it with enough food for 3 generations, some gold bullion, and 3 alternate means of leaving the island, such as warship, jet and a powerful helicopter.

or go to new zealand. that seems fun they are also mostly neutral

["InsertNameHere"]

good looking out! i'll take the advice. No new zealand, i don't trust any government... i'll create my own on my island.

[Architectonic]

ummmmm...have we forgotten that Australia was colonized by English criminals...?

Yes, all except for Adelaide. That is what makes Adelaide superior to other major cities in Australia. :D

Shai Gar, I'm just curious, have you ever actually been to the United States of America?

[Shai Gar]

New York City - to visit the guggenheim, and to watch the opera "aspects of love" (i still have the ticket stubs, had them framed) and i wandered through harlem at night and it didnt seem all that violent
also
Washington D.C. - i wanted to take a look around. i am still disapointed i didnt blow up the whitehouse

that is my extent of travelling to the USA.

most of the people i met in the guggenheim were not that bad, and seemed sympathetic to my views on foreign policy. but i came at a bad time in washington and there was a pathetic rally on gay rights. but all of that was a few years ago and i am not going back, ever. unless it is to see aspects of love again.

[Polystom]

We should ideally be treating America as a sort of rich friend we can "borrow" toys from for which we never have to take account.

I mean, it's a philosophy they couldn't ever really chastise us for. Not without donning Enormous Clown Shoes and Dunce Hats, anyhow.

[Shai Gar]

their nation is violent, self serving, selfmade ignorant, rich through immoral trading means, uncaring of the poor in their society, disregarding of intellectuals.

everything i hate. i shan't treat their government nor any who support it with anything less then my utter loathing.

[Polystom]

Um, we don't give two shits about our bookish cognoscenti, either. Everything's just GUYSEBASTIANTHORPEHABIBIZOMGQUEEREYESTFUZLOL.

Don't delude yourself, Queenslander.

[Shai Gar]

at least intellectualism is prized up here. although i am readily willing to admit that we live in a nation of fucking morons who worship gay sebastian like purtans from the 16th century worshiped jesus and mary. and perhaps we are a little too over the top in our hero worship of athletes.

but intellectualism is prized here by many common people of my aquantance and amongst the politicians

[Miss Anthropic]

i couldnt be arsed to write up something like the american kicking the rest of the worlds, but australian food and state of toilets go beyond americas, so do our personal freedoms, our state of life, our political freedoms, hell most things in australia kicks americas arse

England spawned Australia, england got overcrowded and now australia rules the world as the greatest nation on earth. the only two things america can win with is their military and subversive economic policies

Yeah, England spawned Australia as their penal colony, that's a prison colony just in case you don't have the vocab, Shai Gar. Do you know your ancestors?

Australia seems like a pretty cool place, but the only thing it's got that we're missing are a few more marsupials and a Great Barrier Reef.

[Architectonic]

but intellectualism is prized here by many common people of my aquantance and amongst the politicians

It is?

[Shai Gar]

Miss Anthropic, my lexicon is pretty well developed even if my spelling does tend towards the shoddy.. and i do believe i have touched on that before and yes my ancestors were amongst them, for reasons i have touched on before.

i do believe you are also missing the fact that we dont live in a heightened state of terror (yellow) nor are we constantly looking over our shoulder for the next shooter. in australia we live peaceful lives with very very few deaths that are not through self inflicted means, or natural in design. oh yeah, and our rights, they havent been taken away by any government.

architectonic, yes. but then unless a person can read well i try not to make them even an aquantence. and the politicians in this area that i know are all intellectuals themselves, with the exception of paul neville. but most QLDr politicians on a state and federal level i know personally (through my cousin who sits in the senate)

[Miss Anthropic]

Oh, you are falling for that propaganda bullshit that our government is churning out. As citizens, most of us don't pay any attention to any of those silly color alert things, nor do we constantly look over our shoulders in terror. In fact those of us who are semi-intelligent have figured out that all the airport security is just an elaborate, expensive show to make it look like the government is doing something to protect against........TERRORISM :dont: Oh, and I reserve the right to razz you about your country's heritage at any time on any thread. It will go like this: Shai Gar bashes the U.S.-- Miss Anthropic razzes Shai Gar about the origins of his country. I know your vocabulary is just fine...and your spelling abysmal. That's OK. I wish we had a spell check on here. It goes against INTP nature though. We should be good at spelling and if we are not, someone will correct us at every turn. One last thing, what right has been taken from me? Last time I checked I had all mine.

[Shai Gar]

no i am not falling for that crap, i said it to highlight that shit your government pulls, although you do tend to be scared an awful lot as evidenced by micheal moores movies.

i figured that airport thing would become apparent to you lot, if america truly wanted to end bin ladins attacks and the attacks of most other freedom fighters on american soil all they would need to do would be to drop their foreign policies and go a more benevolent route overseas or simply bring every army of theirs home and leave the other nations alone. in fact bin ladin said this coming up to the elections, i think that is what won the vote for bush (but osama knew that would happen).

so that was me getting razzed over my nations origins? oh right, i thought that was just the second thing that most people mention when they find out where an aussie is from online (dont mention irwin).

privacy
4th Amendment
The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated; and no warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched and the persons or things to be seized.

[Thermo]

i have a better life due to you? i think not. my money certainly comes from teh government but none of that comes from you, in fact australia receives very very very little to no fiscal aid from the US. it is all home grown, we are a pretty strong nation economically. and the US never wanted the army out of south korea, though the people of south korea did and still do.

http://www.globaleducation.edna.edu.au/globaled/go/cache/offonce/pid/24
"In 2003 the United States is the world's largest single aid donor in volume terms ($US13.2 billion or 0.13% of GNI)"

we give more aid that any other country.

Australia gives most of its aid to its neighbors do you believe that is completely altruistic?



people who turn away US aid get sanctions, 52% of the world has US sanctions

I don't doubt it, but I would like some proof.

Still no come back for your toilets flushing the wrong way. :)

[Thermo]

their nation is violent, self serving, selfmade ignorant, rich through immoral trading means, uncaring of the poor in their society, disregarding of intellectuals.

I was wondering if you could back some of this up. Furthermore, while I tend to generalize I would like to point out that roughly half and possibly more disagree fundamentally with this administration. There is a large portion of the US that is literate, wants good relationships with the rest of the world, and are not bible thumping morons.

[Dunearhp]

I think it is time that we invade the US to set up free and democratic elections.

Paul Hogan may be a pest, but I am more sorry about sending you Rupert Murdoch, though technically he sent himself.

Guantanamo Bay? Geneva Convention.
I am not happy about Woomera either. Guantanamo Bay was used as a detention center for illegal immigrants prior to its current use. If you want to be the good guys then you should take the high road.

For every country that we have ever occupied, we have given it back. We didn't leave any military bases behind. If the french had put bases in your country during the US civil war, would you be happy if the bases remained afterwards. Simplistic view, yes. I am just trying to say that occupying powers are seldom popular.

Convict ancestors? Does everyone think they are being witty when they say that. Most Australians have heard it so often that it only makes you sound dull. Puritans!
The convicts included murderers and rapists, yes. They also included people who had been convicted of other world shattering crimes: such as stealing bread or a length of ribbon.
My great grandfather was a ship captain. Does that mean that I should know how to sail?

We are still one of your closest allies. You should count that as a miracle. Going into the attack on Afghanistan, the US ambassador to Australia was making comments along the lines of "You are either with us, or you are part of the problem and will have to live with the repercussions", making it sound like a veiled threat. I thought he was supposed to be a "diplomat", why then did I feel like throwing him into the sea. I've seen better diplomacy from six year old children.

Those who disagree with you are not necessarily your enemies, and those who agree with you are not necessarily your friends.

As a country, the US has done a great amount of influencing people, but has almost forgotten how to make and keep friends.

We give most of our aid to our neighbours. Charity begins at home. It also helps keep the region stable. It is not good policy to keep your neighbours destitute. It is definitely cheaper, both ethically and economically, than fighting them. Unfortunately we have moved more money towards military spending so that we can go fight "terrorists" in Iraq. Some of that at least is being used in the Solomon Islands. Not many terrorists there, but we were invited.

[Thermo]

If you want to be the good guys then you should take the high road.

George Bush is clearly a lying hypocrite using religion for self serving purposes. Anyone can see that. I don't have any illusions about taking a higher road. We have power and we use it for our own interests. However, I think we are neglecting diplomacy and that could cost us at some point in the future. The US should be more sensitive and cooperative with the rest of the world.

As far as Australia being pure of heart....lol. Do you really believe any government isn't self serving for its powerful elite? The difference is the US has more power, thats it.

[Dunearhp]

As far as Australia being pure of heart....lol. Do you really believe any government isn't self serving for its powerful elite? The difference is the US has more power, thats it.

No, thats not it. That sort of macho rhetoric is what is causing most of your problems. We may not be angels, but then we aren't holding the biggest guns. Power is not an excuse for its own abuse. It worries me that the Geneva convention has been abandoned for political gain.

[Thermo]

No, thats not it. That sort of macho rhetoric is what is causing most of your problems. We may not be angels, but then we aren't holding the biggest guns. Power is not an excuse for its own abuse.

I didn't say it was. I just said you are idealizing the Australian government.

[jjt]

new zealands government and finlands, and hollands seem to be far better than australias, and americas and englands. and i say that knowing i just called new zealand better than australia. thought i didnt cause we have a better country they just have a better democracy and government

Admitedly I'm totally biased, but New Zealand food is fantastic, Australia's is great too. The public toilets are mostly great and free. There's even the famous Huntervasser designed one whoch is totally amazing.

I think we're pretty blessed here in NZ.
I've travelled hugely and haven't found a better place to bring up kids.

[Miss Anthropic]

Just think what a flag-waver Shai Gar would be if he had been born an American! And the toilets flushing the opposite direction....boy, that's important--and just a geographical phenomenon anyway. Do you think Michael Moore's movies are unbiased truth? They are no more objective than the propaganda the government pumps out on the conservative line. The actions of the United States are part of a double-edged sword. The actions that made us wealthy and a great world powerful are the same actions that do not endear us to the rest of the world due to self-serving aggression to obtain resources. And for the most part the foreign people who come here to live value the education that they can obtain and the opportunities there are. Otherwise why would they emigrate here? You keep talking about the poor here, but if you ask me, being poor here is probably better than being poor in other parts of the world.

And why do you think we don't have 4th amendment rights? I don't know where you get your information, but you really need to realize that everything has bias and you need to read 2 sides and come to a middle ground in your assumptions. Is sounds as though you believe we live in a police state.

[Shai Gar]

Just think what a flag-waver Shai Gar would be if he had been born an American! we have flag wavers in australia, i throw things at them. i dont even like my nation very much, i quite prefer new zealand, however australia is the best place to get ahead in so i stay. no doubt as an american you think that the term flag waver is a joke about those patriots who dont think much. well to me flag wavers are an insult to humanity, to the concepts of free thought and individualism. i take offence at that. but since it is in flamethrower i will shrug it off.

if i was born american, i cant tell you enough how much that idea makes me shudder with discust and creepy feelings like there are snakes under my skin, oh wait, imagine being born ESFJ, and knowing what being an INTP is like. damn that is creepy/scary.



And the toilets flushing the opposite direction....boy, that's important--and just a geographical phenomenon anyway. exactly why i didnt comment, i thought it would be just another simpsons joke.



Do you think Michael Moore's movies are unbiased truth? They are no more objective than the propaganda the government pumps out on the conservative line. no, i think that micheal moores movies are biased truth, and the governments propaganda is biased lies and misconceptions



The actions of the United States are part of a double-edged sword. The actions that made us wealthy and a great world powerful are the same actions that do not endear us to the rest of the world due to self-serving aggression to obtain resources.this doesnt seem so double edged to me, it seems self serving, although you actually did write it up correctly. not many people who are as psychotically patriotic as you seem to be can even come up with the truth like this.



You keep talking about the poor here, but if you ask me, being poor here is probably better than being poor in other parts of the world. i disagree, the poor in cuba have free access to the greatest health care system in the world, in scandanavia they also have access to some of the best social security systems in the world. hell in a lot of places in the world the poor are far better treated than they are in america. but you would like to america to be good to teh poor so you believe that it is, simply because they tell you america is great.



And why do you think we don't have 4th amendment rights? 18 November 2002.

On the 18th, the ruling of the lower courts was overridden by an all but unknown court: the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court of Review, which is the appeals arm of the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court (FISC). The appeals panel includes three men that were appointed by Chief Justice William Rehnquist. The courts meet in secret at the Justice Department. Initially, the FISC ruled the surveillance privileges sought by John Ashcroft after 9.11 "were not reasonably designed" to ensure the privacy rights of citizens. It cited many previous abuses of surveillance laws. But government lawyers sought a review. And the appeals panel determined the authorized surveillance measures of the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act (FISA) are "reasonable."
search for the full text on this Act "Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act"
although it will come out as this act "Library, Bookseller, and Personal Records Privacy Act"
http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/D?c109:2:./temp/~c109xCEWpp::

other sources of information are
http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/bdquery/z?d107:h.r.03162:
http://www.fas.org/irp/agency/dod/poindexter.html


I don't know where you get your information, in the begining i got most of my information from chomskys books, nowadays i look at his sources first and i go read those. mostly they can be found at these websites:
www.amnesty.org
www.worldbank.org
www.naa.gov.au/
www.LibraryofCongress.gov

and more




you really need to realize that everything has bias and you need to read 2 sides and come to a middle ground in your assumptions. no, because on the one hand i get the government propaganda that says all is well, on the other hand i get the truth, if i were to go with the middle ground i would get a bunch of bullshit. and i know it is the truth because for every debatable fact i see i try to disprove it by going to the stated source (mostly US govt sources) and well, i cannot disprove it. the only reason you do not have the information i have is because you are too lazy to venture out from your deluded hole and get a libertarian view and then research it.


Is sounds as though you believe we live in a police state.yes, i do believe that.

[Miss Anthropic]

Well, you don't know what you are talking about Shai Gar. Cuba may have health care, I question the positivity because that may be the only thing they have. The roads and schools and utilities they have are due the the US early on. You make me sound like a republican, but I'm not. One has to be realistic about this. I fall into the low income category in the U.S. because I'm a student working part time, but damn, I'm not missing anything. I have everything I need to live just fine and I'm not supported by the government. I have nothing to complain about. And that doesn't mean I support the current administration and their views either. You really don't have a 3-D view Shair Gar. You have been suckered by the propaganda.

[Dunearhp]

I didn't say it was. I just said you are idealizing the Australian government.

No, your wording actually said that I was idealizing Australia. It was ambiguous, so I ignored it.

Perhaps I didn't make it clear, but I am not relly that happy with my government either. Just recently it was discovered that a seriously mentally ill Australian citizen has spent several months in one of our detention centres. The psychologists they have in there didn't notice because mentally disturbed babbling is not unusual in there.

Our Prime minister wants to send more troops to Iraq in order to protect the Japanese troops. WTF??
Ironic really. The RSL (Returned Services League) are up in arms. They spent most of world war 2 trying to kill Japanese.
They should have been up in arms a long time ago, considering that the US now treats prisoners of war almost as badly as the Japanese did in world war 2.

How would you like to see captured US soldiers treated by the enemy.
How do you think I would like to see Australian soldiers treated if they are captured by the enemy.

War is ugly, but when one side lowers their standards, it gives the other side an excuse (however unjustified) to lower theirs.

Selective blindness, and hypocrisy exists in abundance. If we fought our own shortcomings as strongly as we fought others then we would all be a lot more popular.;

[Shai Gar]

you want to say i do not know what i am talking about? sure go ahead. but prove it.

so far all you have done is give your opinion, i to have given my opinion but mine is obviously backed up by sources from your country's government, mine and independant sources.

i also research, i have shown this, you have not.

you are fine with what you have? good for you. but think about it you are an INTP, like me, and we dont really take much to be kept happy, a library card, a roof over our heads and meals when we start to starve. try looking at it from other angles. i do have a 3D view and i believe i have shown this, if you believe i have not then show me where i haven't and then prove it. which propaganda suckered me in? i should very much like to shake their hand for achieving what some of my family believe the impossible.

another question, you say you are a student working part time and you are in the low income bracket in the US, well the IRS says that that tax bracket is for those who earn between $0 - $7,150 each year (http://www.irs.gov/formspubs/article/0,,id=133625,00.html) so if that is you, fine. but how can you afford decent health care? as i understand it that is out of the question for anyone in the US who earns less than 20,000 a year.

and as for your statement "The roads and schools and utilities they have are due the the US early on."

and as for your ludicrous questioning of the positivity of the cuban health system due to it being cuba's only asset, well i draw your attention to this "The Impact Of The U.S. Embargo On The Health And Nutrition In Cuba" by the American Association for World Health Report. which can be found here: http://www.cubasolidarity.net/aawh.html

clearly if america had not been imposing these economic sanctions on Cuba then Cuba could be working on other things. not to mention that it is stupid to question the validity of Cuba's health system being a good thing simply because it is the only thing they have.


now as i said earlier, please, prove me wrong, i would love for that to happen because it means my research is faulty and can be improved. but untill you do prove me wrong i shall continue to defend cuba.

we have moved off topic, the topic is australia is better than america. i failed to give much evidence because i wanted people of all nations to try and prove me wrong, only americans have tried and not yet have they succeeded. did i put you all on the defensive?

[Miss Anthropic]

In all honesty Shai Gar I know nothing of Cuba except what we did for them in the early 20th century. As soon as Castro took over, we have done nothing for them. But since people continue to attempt to float to the US in little rafts from Cuba to Florida I assume people think they would be better off in the US. Why do you need to prove Australia better than the U.S.? I don't give a rat's ass if you think Australia is better than the U.S.. IN fact I don't want to move to Australia even if its utopia compared to here. I would love to visit there though. Sounds like an amazing place.

I have decent health care because of the last job I had. I have to pay out of pocket, but they must cover me for 18 months. After that its called portability and I will have to pay more for the same or less coverage. I am in the close to bottom tax bracket, but I have a house, heat, electricity, running water, health insurance etc. I can afford to buy clothes and other goods because they are so incredibly cheap because of overseas labor. The thought that really bothers me about the US is the minimal recycling and the amount of "disposable goods." If you buy a DVD player or CD player at an inexpensive price, if it breaks, it is easier to throw it away in the garbage than to have it repaired. It is more expensive to repair electronic equipment in this country than it is to buy a new one. That REALLY bothers me....the disposable attitude. The amount of garbage we through away per person per day has increased by more than 4 pounds in the past 45 years.

[Shai Gar]

that post gives me the impression you are trying to back off.

you posted your opinion and refused to back it up. you called my opinion wrong and you refused to disproved it. i consider i have won.

[Miss Anthropic]

Yeah whatever.....You are not the master debater you fantasize yourself to be......was I suppose to argue more about Cuba. The truth about my poor United States lifestyle wasn't good enough for you?

[Shai Gar]

no, simply the fact that you could not take down australia unless you took america down a lot more.

[snarled]

The only clear conclusion to arise from this debate is that New Zealand is the fairest nation on earth.

In our eyes, the once fair and free 'big brother' to the west is now desperately trying to align themselves to the States. Damn you to hell John Howard. Baby Yanks! BAH!

I feel your pain Shai Gar. You are turning into what you despise.

[Dman]

My belief is that most people on this forum would most likely not find any real difference in their lives whether they lived in England, Australia, or the US, other than arguing differences that are either trivial or unlikely to ever be experienced by said posters. We all have pretty good lives compared to a lot of people in this world, particularly those who do not have the luxury of typing their opinions on internet forums.

Take someone from North Korea and one of our countries, or an African country, then you might find some real differences of opinion. The rest is just shameless patriotic chest thumping. BTW I'd rather live in the superpower than a piggyback country, then at least I'd know I had the freedom and means to move to any other country if I so desired.

[snarled]

BTW I'd rather live in the superpower than a piggyback country, then at least I'd know I had the freedom and means to move to any other country if I so desired.


*beats chest*

What! That makes me laugh. If anything, you guys have recently restricted the freedom and means to move to other countries. I've got freedom and ease exuding from my pores. Mwahaha.

*ends chest beating*

[Shai Gar]

ing in
My belief is that most people on this forum would most likely not find any real difference in their lives whether they lived in England, Australia, or the US, other than arguing differences that are either trivial or unlikely to ever be experienced by said posters. We all have pretty good lives compared to a lot of people in this world, particularly those who do not have the luxury of typing their opinions on internet forums.

Take someone from North Korea and one of our countries, or an African country, then you might find some real differences of opinion. The rest is just shameless patriotic chest thumping. BTW I'd rather live in the superpower than a piggyback country, then at least I'd know I had the freedom and means to move to any other country if I so desired. ** reserving the rights to post here tonight after i get my study and assignment done **

it will be on americas lack of rights to travel anywhere they want, defining piggyback nation, dismissing the idea, calling Dman weak, using the opinions of people from vietnamn, North Korea and sierra lerone. and dismissing the idea that i am a patriot

[POST START]
fuck it, americans are not allowed to enter or travel to certain nations, the CIA has a list of what nations. i cant be arsed looking for it. and a lot of nations will not allow americans in because of hostilities with america.

ach i cant be arsed defining a piggy back nation, except to say that i think you are calling australia one, and australia is not.
the whole idea is stupid

you are weak.

people in vietnam, north korea and many african nations hate you.

patriot

n: One who loves, supports, and defends one's country.

get bent. i would rather bomb the shit out of canberra and sydney and melbourne and selected other areas. if there was an invasion underway and i agreed with the reasons that the foreigners were invading australia for, then i would grab a gun and help them. also to loot. and i will not defend my country while we are doing internationally criminal acts

[Shai Gar]

The only clear conclusion to arise from this debate is that New Zealand is the fairest nation on earth. [/QUOTE] ONE of the fairest, up there with holland and the region of scandanavia. i would put holland first though


I feel your pain Shai Gar. You are turning into what you despise. my nation is, i am taking great pains to not turn into what i dispise

[Serotonin]

I'm not going to be partisan on this one....

[Shai Gar]

what would it matter if you were? i do not like it if people back me up simply because they belong to the same group.

[Warrior413]

Andorra kicks the collective asses of Australia, the US, and Latvia to boot.

This is merely an opinion, and not even mine.

[Shai Gar]

yes but andorra is run by a US owned dictator.

fuck him.

[Architectonic]

I'm not going to be partisan on this one....

LOL

May I say however, that Shai Gar's opinions are his own and not representative of all other intelligent Australians.

[Shai Gar]

indeed. i would certainly hope they are my own. i do not plagarise

[Thermo]

How would you like to see captured US soldiers treated by the enemy.
How do you think I would like to see Australian soldiers treated if they are captured by the enemy.

War is ugly, but when one side lowers their standards, it gives the other side an excuse (however unjustified) to lower theirs.

Terrorists are lopping the heads off of captured Americans (not even soldiers), I don't think the enemy is doing us any favors.

Again this goes back to the belief that all governments are doing everything above board, which they are not. It is just more open.

[Dunearhp]

Terrorists are lopping the heads off of captured Americans (not even soldiers), I don't think the enemy is doing us any favors.

And how exactly is this an excuse for anything?


Again this goes back to the belief that all governments are doing everything above board, which they are not. It is just more open.

They should be as accountable as anyone else.

[Thermo]

And how exactly is this an excuse for anything?

Are you actually arguing that governments in the real world are ethical? I would call that niave.

1.) Are you saying in war, an activity where the goal is to kill as many people as possible, we should be mindful of rules and regulations? Its like handing out speeding tickets to serial killers.

2.) If I were a soldier in a war, the last thing I am doing when someone points a gun at me is flipping through the Geneva Convention Code.

[Dunearhp]

Are you actually arguing that governments in the real world are ethical? I would call that niave.

You keep confusing the the ideas of "should be ethical" and "are ethical". If that makes me sound like an idealist, then so be it.



1.) Are you saying in war, an activity where the goal is to kill as many people as possible, we should be mindful of rules and regulations? Its like handing out speeding tickets to serial killers.

The goal of war is to win. It involves killing people, but that is the means, not the end.
The US government sends mixed signals about it's goals in Iraq. Rhetoric of the nature of "Win hearts and minds", "Free and Democratic elections", "End the threat of terrorism.". None of these are jobs for an army. It is not what they are trained for. The US army in combat situations are behaving professionally in the manner for which they were trained. There are rules. An example is that you don't gas a bunker and then shoot everyone as they run out. Soldiers want to still feel human when the war is over. The rules are meant to be for their benefit.



2.) If I were a soldier in a war, the last thing I am doing when someone points a gun at me is flipping through the Geneva Convention Code.

Go ahead, shoot them. But if they surrender when your colleague puts a gun in their back, you should treat them how you would like to be treated in the same situation. You don't have to try and make friends with them.


Many of the prisoners kept in Australia during the second world war were Italian. Those who weren't rabid faschists actually got on fairly well with the locals. After the war, many emmigrated to Australia. They liked it here, partly because of the political climate.

[Thermo]

Dunearhp:
I agree. You sounded overly idealistic in previous posts.

[Geoff]

You keep confusing the the ideas of "should be ethical" and "are ethical". If that makes me sound like an idealist, then so be it.




The goal of war is to win. It involves killing people, but that is the means, not the end.
The US government sends mixed signals about it's goals in Iraq. Rhetoric of the nature of "Win hearts and minds", "Free and Democratic elections", "End the threat of terrorism.". None of these are jobs for an army. It is not what they are trained for. The US army in combat situations are behaving professionally in the manner for which they were trained. There are rules. An example is that you don't gas a bunker and then shoot everyone as they run out. Soldiers want to still feel human when the war is over. The rules are meant to be for their benefit.




Go ahead, shoot them. But if they surrender when your colleague puts a gun in their back, you should treat them how you would like to be treated in the same situation. You don't have to try and make friends with them.


Many of the prisoners kept in Australia during the second world war were Italian. Those who weren't rabid faschists actually got on fairly well with the locals. After the war, many emmigrated to Australia. They liked it here, partly because of the political climate.

Yes, these things happen. It often seems to be the Italians. Seems as if they were so reluctant to be in the war they made laid back prisoners.

I saw about this one group of them shipped to some remote scottish island (orkney maybe?). They then built a catholic chapel out of left over scrap and hand painted it all, it was just beautiful. The war ended before it was finished and the locals completed it after the italians had gone, but in keeping with the Italian style, and the Italians still visit to see it. Quite enlightened for a war situation.

I also heard of this gardener who was a German POW who was made to garden around my home town because he was an agreeable older man (and thus felt to be low risk). Apparently he did an exemplary job at this one old lady's house, but after the war ended, the next year, the lawn came up "Heil Hitler" in daffodils. I found that a most amusing story!

-Geoff

[Dman]

I’m sorry, I shouldn’t have said “piggyback” countries. I meant non-superpowers, i.e. inferior countries.

Maybe “leeches” or “sponges on the American economy” would have been more appropriate.

Just pourin’ a little fuel on the fire!


BTW - why do you think americans love canada so much - if things get too bad here, we can just run up north! In fact a lot of americans say they are from canada when they are travelling internationally, so people won't give them a bad time. And as for the CIA restricting where I can move - total BS.

[Thermo]

BTW - why do you think americans love canada so much

1.) Beer
2.) canadian bacon

[Shai Gar]

Dunearhp:
I agree. You sounded overly idealistic in previous posts.
i guess that is what we get for conversing with americans on democracy. the only reason i can see as to why you would think it sounded overly idealistic (as opposed to how it is meant to be run) is because your government treats the notion harshly and doesnt allow you it

[Shai Gar]

I’m sorry, I shouldn’t have said “piggyback” countries. I meant non-superpowers, i.e. inferior countries.

Maybe “leeches” or “sponges on the American economy” would have been more appropriate.

you know i would certainly agree with you had you said parasitic countries.

morally inferior
leeches on third world nations
sponges on any economy that has "free trade" with the united states

sounds about right. so the US is a piggyback nation then.
okay, i can see that.

[cjs55]

1.) Beer


This is one of the greatest myths. Canadian beer sucks. Seriously, Molson? Horrible. Alexander Keith's? Yeah, sure, IPA my ass. There's only a few decent microbews as well, mainly Unibroue. American microbrews way outnumber canadians (obviously) and are for the most part superior.

[Geoff]

This is one of the greatest myths. Canadian beer sucks. Seriously, Molson? Horrible. Alexander Keith's? Yeah, sure, IPA my ass. There's only a few decent microbews as well, mainly Unibroue. American microbrews way outnumber canadians (obviously) and are for the most part superior.

I suppose the problem is that the big mainstream US beers are generally worse than the big Canadian ones. Clearly Keith's is a streets more tasty than Bud.
I have been to good microbreweries in both countries, do you mean there are more in the US (which is probably obvious) or do you mean more per head of population? Not sure they are always superior, I have been to good and bad in both.

-Geoff

[cjs55]

Pretty much any Sam Adams (which is pretty mainstream) brew destroys Alexander Keiths. But Keith's is definitely better than Bud or Miller or Coors. I just don't really consider that really a big deal, since those beers are pretty bad. Hell, if I'm just going to get drunk I easily will take PBR over any of those.

I'm really talking about the top of the line here, because thats mainly what I like to drink if I'm not just trying to get drunk quickly.

The U.S. have some stellar, world-class microbrews: Rogue, Stone, Three Floyds, Victory, AleSmith, some more I'm forgetting.

The only canadian microbrew that I've had close to that quality is Unibroue, and I've had quite a few.

That said, Europe is the overall winner for beer quality in my experience. But the U.S. does some pretty crazy stuff.

Mainly I just dislike people saying that Canada has better beer than the U.S., when 9 out of my 10 favorite beers made in north america come from the U.S. and not Canada.

[Geoff]

Pretty much any Sam Adams (which is pretty mainstream) brew destroys Alexander Keiths. But Keith's is definitely better than Bud or Miller or Coors. I just don't really consider that really a big deal, since those beers are pretty bad. Hell, if I'm just going to get drunk I easily will take PBR over any of those.

I'm really talking about the top of the line here, because thats mainly what I like to drink if I'm not just trying to get drunk quickly.

The U.S. have some stellar, world-class microbrews: Rogue, Stone, Three Floyds, Victory, AleSmith, some more I'm forgetting.

The only canadian microbrew that I've had close to that quality is Unibroue, and I've had quite a few.

That said, Europe is the overall winner for beer quality in my experience. But the U.S. does some pretty crazy stuff.

Mainly I just dislike people saying that Canada has better beer than the U.S., when 9 out of my 10 favorite beers made in north america come from the U.S. and not Canada.

Ahh, I enjoy trying beer when I travel around North America. My current favourite is Montana Ale Works. Not only an excellent range of microbrews (the Raspberry Beer with a shot of Framboise was excellent) but light and crispy stone banked pizzas in an Italian style. Yum yum, I need to go back there again.

You may have a point actually, I think the proportion of good microbreweries seemed a little higher just south of the US Canada border than North. Not much in it though.

Good job that in the meantime we have breweries everywhere in the UK! I am 5 miles from a decent local brewery here. www.ringwoodbrewery.co.uk

Nothing quite like a barrel for a celebration. Hey with a barrel, it *is* a celebration!

-Geoff

[Dman]

Portland here likes to claim it was at the forefront of the microbrew revolution - Widmer, Bridgeport, Portland Brewing, Full Sail.

Bridgeport IPA - Best.
MacTarnahan's - A close second.

Anything from Deschutes Brewery kicks arse (Black Butte Porter, Mirror Pond Ale, Obsidian Stout)

Budweiser, Coors, etc. are generally a good substitute for water, kind of like a yellow soda that will give you a buzz after you drink 15 - 20 of them

[euterpenc]

Budweiser, Coors, etc. are generally a good substitute for water, kind of like a yellow soda that will give you a buzz after you drink 15 - 20 of them

A-fucking-MEN.

[cjs55]

Anything from Deschutes Brewery kicks arse (Black Butte Porter, Mirror Pond Ale, Obsidian Stout)

I've heard such great things about this brewery but have yet to try anything from them. I really need to turn 21 already so I can take a week off and go on a tour of the west coast microbreweries.

[cjs55]

Good job that in the meantime we have breweries everywhere in the UK!

MMmmm Samuel Smiths.

An old standby for me here. Their imperial stout is just wonderous in my opinion.

[Chall T. Dow]

I don't much about the beers, but my house is only 30min from the Jack Daniel's distellery.

Chall T. Dow