Just how bilingual is Canada at the individual level?

[outmywindow]

Come one come all, Canadian INTPcers, and answer my question below!

I know that Canada legally recognizes both French and English as it's official languages, but I was just wondering how far this extends beyond legal documents and roadsigns, etc. I realize that the answer of a Quebecois will be vastly different than that of someone living in the Northwest Territories, but in general, just how seriously is the dual-language issue addressed? Do schools employ dual-language classrooms, or is French simply taught in its own class like any other 'foreign' language, albeit at an earlier age than otherwise?

Anyway, I was just curious about how much French-English duality has spread beyond the originally French provinces as a result of necessity, governmental influence, general interest, etc.

[Madrigal]

I lived in BC for 8 years and nobody spoke french there. Everything is in both languages (products, instructions etc.) but people only spoke English. From what I understand, only Montreal is close to being a bilingual city.

[Swordguy]

Unless you're in Ottawa or Quebec, we speak Engrish. Everywhere else you're more likely to find Chinese or Korean speakers. I know a fair amount of Dutch and Serbo-Croation speakers as well. Canada is just a multi-cultural kinda place.

[Ponderous]

I went to a wedding in Ottawa that was in French and English. This was only because the groom's grandmother was from Quebec and spoke no English. Of course the bride spoke no French and wasn't quite sure what all was said at the wedding.

[WhiteRaven]

I lived in BC for 8 years and nobody spoke french there. Everything is in both languages (products, instructions etc.) but people only spoke English. From what I understand, only Montreal is close to being a bilingual city.

Not exactly. The province of New Brunswick is the only bilingual one. Quebec is French, the rest are officially English. The city of Montreal would probably be the most bilingual place in the province. In many Canadian provinces your child may attend what is called French Immersion, in which they take their classes in French even if their mother tongue is English. English classes are run parallel to the French within the same building. If there is enough French ancestry in an area the parents are within their rights to demand true French instruction for their children and this has been won in court cases. In that cases, only French is spoken in the whole school, not just within instructional time. French schools in English provinces from my experience tend to be small in numbers, which is a source of contention for some English parents who see their children bussed farther to attend more crowded English schools. But the French schools do not get the variety of courses and extracurricular activities due to their small size.

Beginning in grade 3 in my province, English children take core French and must do so until the end of grade 9. They may select it as a language elective in high school, but the classes are only run if the numbers warrant it. There are summer opportunities for students to go do immersion in other provinces, but they are not commonly sought out.

There is a large contingent of people of French ancestry in certain areas of the Atlantic provinces and areas of the Prairies. They have fears of backlash every time Quebec talks of separation. They are very proud of their heritage and their French has a dialect all its own, depending upon the region. The Cajuns in the Southern States are descendants of French Acadiens (from Atlantic Canada) that were deported from the area when the British and the French fought over the country so long ago. Some here still lament that they didn't keep deporting them when they got to Quebec. I think that is a horrible thing, considering they just put them on boats and dropped them off here and there along the coast of the US, regardless of family structure. But what is done is done, and I think we are a better country for having the two cultures here. It gives our politicians something to fight over besides religion.

WR

[Chaselation]

Come one come all, Canadian INTPcers, and answer my question below!

I know that Canada legally recognizes both French and English as it's official languages, but I was just wondering how far this extends beyond legal documents and roadsigns, etc. I realize that the answer of a Quebecois will be vastly different than that of someone living in the Northwest Territories, but in general, just how seriously is the dual-language issue addressed? Do schools employ dual-language classrooms, or is French simply taught in its own class like any other 'foreign' language, albeit at an earlier age than otherwise?

Anyway, I was just curious about how much French-English duality has spread beyond the originally French provinces as a result of necessity, governmental influence, general interest, etc.

There are regional pockets in Ontario and eastern Canada that have high concentrations of French speaking people. The proximity to Quebec obviously being a factor. Ottawa would qualify as a bilingual city as well.

My home town a stones throw form Detroit and 300 miles from Quebec was bilingual until urban sprawl thinned the population out about 15 years ago.

French is mandatory every year in school until approximately age 16 in Ontario. There are also French immersion grade schools and all French high schools all over Ontario. There are a lot in my county. I can't speak for all of Canada however. Being taught French doesn't make an area bilingual however.

If you want a government job you need to bilingual for the most part.

[Chaselation]

Actually found this (http://atlas.nrcan.gc.ca/site/english/maps/peopleandsociety/lang/languages2001/bilingual?mapsize=1150+1350&scale=15244128.158379&mapxy=1191636.1874523668+-357147.59165886836&mode=zoomin&layers=POP&urlappend=%26map_scalebar_imagecolor%3D255+255+255) it shows bilingual (French/English) distribution in Canada.

[outmywindow]

Thanks for all the responses guys. Frankly, you've all confirmed what I'd figured about the situation, but I thought I'd ask anyway.

The reason I was wondering is because of a check I received at work from a Canadian couple. Not only was the check pre-printed completely in French, the written portion was in French as well, which struck me as a little odd considering they were making a donation to a US -- and therefore non-French speaking -- organization. I guess they were just really intent on advertising their French-Canadian-ness.

Luckily for me, it's pretty easy to figure out what "L'université de Californie Berkeley" means.

[Henry]

I'm Canadian and English is my mother tongue. I studied French at university.

We are taught French in school, but it was/is pathetic. At highschool we learned idioms and expressions and pronunciation that would have worked in France, but nothing that would have helped us function in our own country. My first immersion experience, and I believe that of many other anglo-Canadians, was being completely lost as soon as we make our first trip to Quebec or the maritimes. Very frustrating.

[Chaselation]

Thanks for all the responses guys. Frankly, you've all confirmed what I'd figured about the situation, but I thought I'd ask anyway.

The reason I was wondering is because of a check I received at work from a Canadian couple. Not only was the check pre-printed completely in French, the written portion was in French as well, which struck me as a little odd considering they were making a donation to a US -- and therefore non-French speaking -- organization. I guess they were just really intent on advertising their French-Canadian-ness.

Luckily for me, it's pretty easy to figure out what "L'universit? de Californie Berkeley" means.

You asked about bilingual there is a large population that doesn't speak English.


I'm Canadian and English is my mother tongue. I studied French at university.

We are taught French in school, but it was/is pathetic. At highschool we learned idioms and expressions and pronunciation that would have worked in France, but nothing that would have helped us function in our own country. My first immersion experience, and I believe that of many other anglo-Canadians, was being completely lost as soon as we make our first trip to Quebec or the maritimes. Very frustrating.

I enjoy English, I would have likely enjoyed French as well if it wasn't taught so poorly. Ten years of French class and I could never have a conversation with my grandparents en Fran?ais.:P

[Thevenin]

Not exactly. The province of New Brunswick is the only bilingual one. Quebec is French, the rest are officially English. The city of Montreal would probably be the most bilingual place in the province...

In my limited experience of several trips to Montreal, I've found that, even though most people appear to be bilingual, French still seems to be dominant. This may be due to the provincial laws that make it so. In general, and by necessity, the Montreal Anglophones seem to speak French better than the Francophones speak English, but I may be wrong about this. In Montreal, there are about 1 million Francophones and 0.5 million Anglophones. As an American who speaks French somewhat fluently, I've been treated well in Quebec. However, qu?becois is a bit difficult to understand, at first.

[mgb]

"Just how bilingual is Canada at the individual level?"

Too bilingual.

I didn't BC to be that bilingual at all. They have French Immersion programs in school, but I wasn't required to take French classes until grade eight, and then it was more as a language component.

Alberta starts teaching French in Grade 4. It's mandatory until Grade 9 (I believe). Luckily, I'd only had a year of French and didn't have to take any when we moved here because I was outrageously behind.

Winnipeg also has a sizable French speaking population, to the point where there are French street signs in a fairly large area of the city and I imagine French is taught at an early age there as well. The History of Manitoba is kind of unique because it's quite strongly tied to French fur traders mingling with the locals and essential creating an entirely new aboriginal group, the Metis. It was one of the leaders of a Metis rebellion group that helped to found Manitoba.

Actually, as someone alluded to earlier, Canada is pretty accommodating of other languages. If there is a high concentration of any ethnic group in a Canadian city you will usually find street signs, and business signs in two or more languages.

[Randomnity]

Here in Ottawa it's officially bilingual but the people on the street are mostly anglophone, unless you're at a government building or my university.

In stores or restaurants or anything non-official it's always english, since that's what people actually speak here for the most part. Anything official, the french half is always listed prominently, and usually before the english part, which is bloody annoying in long emails (from my school, for instance).

In elementary/high schools you have the option of being taught partially or completely in french (immersion) or being taught in english and taking basic french classes. My university offers both french and english classes for either all or almost all classes (not sure), and you're allowed to take whatever combination you want. And you're also allowed to write exams and assignments for english classes in french, which I think is kinda dumb, but whatever....

[Ellipsis]

"Just how bilingual is Canada at the individual level?"


Alberta starts teaching French in Grade 4. It's mandatory until Grade 9 (I believe). Luckily, I'd only had a year of French and didn't have to take any when we moved here because I was outrageously behind.




HA!

I should be able to type this in French that was true. I can't so now you know...

I believe it starts in grade four and till grade 7 is a MUST. For the rest of jr.high and highschool it is optional just like Spanish or Ukrainian. I was a "special" case because I did not know English well enough and was taught extra English during the blocks of mandatory French in elementary...although I later went to the regular classes. Anyway from what I remember pre-grade 4 you also get some French instruction but mostly in the form of songs and stuff. In the highschool I went to they offered both English and French Social studies and Language arts classes.

Anyway, I probably remember more Spanish from highschool then the French from elementary.

All government documents MUST be available in French and most products all have a French and English side (or at least their documentation). Books, games and movies DO NOT have to have both languages (that would be stupid) but they are available. Oh and Stop signs here are still only STOP signs...

Again French immersion schools are a pretty big thing...

Personally I think having French as a second language adds a bit of character and some additional entertainment when reading the packaging of cereal boxes trying to figure out what word means what.




In elementary/high schools you have the option of being taught partially or completely in french (immersion) or being taught in english and taking basic french classes. My university offers both french and english classes for either all or almost all classes (not sure), and you're allowed to take whatever combination you want. And you're also allowed to write exams and assignments for english classes in french, which I think is kinda dumb, but whatever....

Wow...thats taking the French bit to a new level...I don't think the UofA does that...then again you are in the capital...

[Usehername]

My friends who did French Immersion are truly bilingual. As in, can have a conversation in Montreal and not have anyone notice that they aren't francophones.

Those of us who only took French class in French (at my junior high/high school, which was composed of students from different elementary schools, some normal and some Immersion, we had "dumb French" and "smart French") did not pick it up. We sucked. As an anglophone I know some terms and can generally figure out what the written word is saying, but my productive language is pathetic.


I lived in BC for 8 years and nobody spoke french there. Everything is in both languages (products, instructions etc.) but people only spoke English. From what I understand, only Montreal is close to being a bilingual city.

Winnipeg has the 2nd highest concentration of francophones. There's a chunk of the city where more people speak French than English. A minority, however, a sizeable one.

I'd say the smallest minority are people who can speak both (as in, are bilingual). But, everything is set up that people who speak either one are not hindered around the city.

[Ferrus]

They speak French in the maritime colonies? But I thought they were chiefly English settled - especially Prince Rupert's Isle and New Brunswick weith the few French speakers of Nova Scotia driven out in the Great Expulsion, leaving only a tiny remnant behind.

[SensEye]

They speak French in the maritime colonies? But I thought they were chiefly English settled - especially Prince Rupert's Isle and New Brunswick weith the few French speakers of Nova Scotia driven out in the Great Expulsion, leaving only a tiny remnant behind.You are basically right. New Brunswick because it borders with Quebec has it's fair share of French speakers I would imagine (never been there really). Nova Scotia/PEI/Newfoundland have no more french speakers than Western Canada (which isn't very many).

As mentioned upthread, most Canuck kids study french for a few years in school at least, so lots of people have a smattering of french. But nothing near conversational level. Quebec and the Ottawa region of Ontario (this area is the heart of employment for government civil servants who need to be bilingual) are where all the french speakers are.

[Thevenin]

I think the French in New Brunswick is slightly different (i.e., accent, but also some different words) than that in Quebec. I seem to remember that the Maritimes Francophones are descendants of the Acadians who were able to evade the English during the Great Expulsion of 1755. The Acadians are distinguished from the Quebecois by geography, both in Canada and their origins in France.

[Kalyrn]

Alberta starts teaching French in Grade 4. It's mandatory until Grade 9 (I believe).



Although Alberta does have what in my experience were pathetic attempts at language education in elementary school. These classes were in no way an effective way to learn the language.
French is not required in Junior High or High School.

Although there are pockets of French speaking communities even in Alberta.

[MexiSlamo]

All products, signs, packaging, documents, have English and French on it. We all know a little bit of each language but depending on the region the ratio fluctuates. Some are more French and others more English. In Ontario French is considered mandatory in school for a little while in primary school and the first year of high school. From my first hand experience I can tell you most of us at my school had very little interest in learning French. Like Henry said its pathetic but its something.

[Polly_G]

I think the French in New Brunswick is slightly different (i.e., accent, but also some different words) than that in Quebec. I seem to remember that the Maritimes Francophones are descendants of the Acadians who were able to evade the English during the Great Expulsion of 1755. The Acadians are distinguished from the Quebecois by geography, both in Canada and their origins in France.

I'm from Nova Scotia and go to New Brunswick quite a bit. I see a huge difference in the necessity to speak to French. In Nova Scotia, I'd say probably most if not all the Acadians are bi-lingual and speak English too. They speak mostly French just in their French communities but it is their first language.

I wouldn't make that same assumption in New Brunswick. It is spoken in stores, on the street, and the service people who greet you often have a french accent and can easily bounce between french/english. Some you can see struggle with their english and I wish I spoke it so I could switch for them.

I'm not sure of the dialect difference but the maritimes as a whole has a different dialect and accent even when it comes to English. But there is english you speak with family/friends/tourists and then there is how you speak at work, dealing with services etc. We follow common standards and I would imagine the Acadians would be similar.

I'm actually looking into French courses now because I'm starting to find it a career barrier.