Anti-Pop Music & Books

[INTerloPer]

I just wanted to start a thread dedicated to books and movies that dont fall into the pop category. Any genre will do, as long as your selection isn't overexposed, but rather underappreciated.

[INTerloPer]

AYN RAND - Rand has written many books (fiction and non-) which deal with her philosophy, Objectivism. Essentially Objectivism demands that all persons trade value for value by debunking the myths that charity and collectivism are good. Since A truly 'charitable' act demands that the person who performs it recieve no satisfaction from the deed, and that the reciever of the joyless sacrifice be unworthy and immoral, collectivist ideals can be boiled down to one tenet: ability serving ineptitude. An Objectivist is someone who offers the world only their best, and only in return for the absolute maximum anyone is willing to pay. Objectivists refuse to sanction the moochers and looters of the world by embracing their ego and by saying one word: "NO!" If you're interested in a new way of looking at life, check out anything by Rand, from her short stories (ie. Anthem, which has an Orwellian feel) to her longer, more involved works (ie. Atlas Shrugged).

[kuranes]

Anybody like China Mieville? Interesting sci-fi author. I'm assuming that this is not considered "pop". I also enjoy accounts where there is a severe culture shock going on. Paul Bowles is great at depicting this in fiction. There are worthwhile non-fiction accounts too. I read a book in the last year about an anthropologist living with totally wild natives in the Amazon jungle - natives who had a philosophy that respected a special flavor of rudeness. Another great one was about an Indian man who loved elephants being forced to hunt a rogue elephant that was killing people. K

[INTerloPer]

Time for some not-so-popular music. If you haven't already, check out PLACEBO ("Miss Moneypenny" & "Haemoglobin"), BRIGHT EYES ("Lover I Dont Have To Love"), POE ("Hey Pretty Remix") and GARBAGE ("Queer" & "Push It" & "Androgony")

[kuranes]

Check out The Warlocks - a young group out of L.A. that sounds like a combo of The Velvet Underground circa White Light/White Heat, Spiritualized and Pink Floyd. K

[INTerloPer]

Memoirs of a Geisha, although it flirted with the bestseller list, is still mostly unknown. An amazing account of Japan's sex-workers/tea-pourers, Memoirs will draw you in and keep you captive until you realize with absolute horror that the sun will be up soon. A must read.

[2hype]

Bach Cello Suites played by Yo-Yo Ma. EDIT: Oops, I reread the first post and see you weren't asking for music.

[Sir Isaac Lime]

The artist Cage calls himself an anti-pop star. He's got an album called "Movies for the Blind".

[Star]

Anti-folk band The Moldy Peaches (http://www.moldypeaches.com/) are hilarious. If you only listen to one track of theirs, make it "Who's Got the Crack?"

[Claverhouse]

Although I either usually dislike most popular music, or ignore it ( and the same goes for modern art ), I can't think of anything to say... However, I notice you instead specified books and movies, which shows that those recommendations of bands above are not particularly germane.

I did once think of an analysis of Eric Ambler's last style for his novels, but booyalab pointed out somewhere she wasn't in the least interested in other people's recommendations, so I got discouraged.

The late great George V. Higgins was the final American Master: check out his sequence of novels pitilessly describing what the USA now is ( even if it's mainly set in Mass. ).



Claverhouse :ph34r:

[kuranes]

Higgins is THE master of great dialogue. Elmore Leonard wrote something like "People say that he learned from me, but it's the other way round. I learned from HIM." I just wish his plots were more complex. It's like Steven King has great characterization but ho-hum plotting and Koontz has good plotting but shallow characterization - wouldn't it be cool if you could put them together into one writer? I wish we could combine Higgins with another writer. My favorite novel of his is "The Digger's Game."
Since you are the second person who has commented on the music comments being "off topic' ( what's the big deal about some straying of the subject, anyway? ) I should point out that INTerloper himself ( the thread starter ) introduces the subject of music on Post #4. A lot of times I think of something interesting serendipitously while in the middle of a different subject that just touches on it tangentially ( I agree that some of my tangents are extremely oblique! ), but my feeling is as long as it eventually comes back around to the original subject, why not? As in Jazz where a solo goes off and then comes back to the rhythm part.This forum is not an especially formal zone, IMHO, where topicality should be such a sacred cow. K

[Division56]

I like The Dandy Warhols (band). They're not too widely known...

[Division56]

I wanted to say too, that my Internet Stereo System connects to Virgin Internet Radio and it has an all Garbage all the time channel.

[kuranes]

There is a movie out fairly recently that shows two bands coming up together, on the road, and which one "failed" and which one "succeeded". The Dandy's succeeded. The Brian Jonestown Massacre didn't. It's supposed to be a very good movie. Lots of behind the scenes action. I put quote marks around the two words because there are many defs of success, but here I'm talking about succeeding financially and gaining some fame etc. I think it's called "Dig" or "Jam" something like that. K

[INTerloPer]

Liking the warlocks and mouldy peaches. dont worry about straying from topic, i just wanted somewhere that would link me to anything INTP's find interesting (music/movies/books), culture to which i might not otherwise be exposed. BTW. check out the novel FIGHT CLUB - its not nearly as popular as the film was, and its much more risquee.

[cjs55]

Black Metal, Nihilsm, Anti-Humanism.

[kuranes]

I know 'loper. It wasn't you complaining about things being "off topic". My opinions about it being OK to ramble are in a distinct minority on this site. But i just go ahead anyway, being an opportunist of sorts. K

[euterpenc]

AYN RAND - Rand has written many books (fiction and non-) which deal with her philosophy, Objectivism. Essentially Objectivism demands that all persons trade value for value by debunking the myths that charity and collectivism are good. Since A truly 'charitable' act demands that the person who performs it recieve no satisfaction from the deed, and that the reciever of the joyless sacrifice be unworthy and immoral, collectivist ideals can be boiled down to one tenet: ability serving ineptitude. An Objectivist is someone who offers the world only their best, and only in return for the absolute maximum anyone is willing to pay. Objectivists refuse to sanction the moochers and looters of the world by embracing their ego and by saying one word: "NO!" If you're interested in a new way of looking at life, check out anything by Rand, from her short stories (ie. Anthem, which has an Orwellian feel) to her longer, more involved works (ie. Atlas Shrugged).

I read her introduction to "The Fountainhead" and it sounded like Nietzsche gone terribly wrong. And, for juxtaposition, the previous epidemic of Nietzsche gone wrong was the Nazis.

[euterpenc]

Black Metal, Nihilsm, Anti-Humanism.

There's sucha thing as anti-humanism?

ROFL

If that's not a neurosis I don't know what is.

[heeroyuy]

Nihilism, the belief that paradoxes are right :) (if you don't get it, think about declaring that it is absolutely true that there is no absolute truth, then think again until your brain clicks as though it were a revolver and you were playing russian roulette and you got lucky (sorry, the simile just sort of came out, no offenses intended)).

[cjs55]

By humanism I meant the liberal humanist intellectual movement, which is mainly that all human beings are equal, with many other little things thrown in there that I disagree with.

I didn't mean anti-humanity, although I am against many of its constituents!


And if you are wondering why I put those after Black Metal (the only thing basically relevent to the original question), its because I think the music definitely contains those messages in it.

[cjs55]

Nihilism is like a vacuum: It is immediately filled with value if it is ever achieved.

Its not an end-game, but rather a starting point.

[INTerloPer]

Dig a little deeper in Rand and you'll find that Anthem is a story which shows the worst and the best that could happen,. Hers is one of the most capitalist, anti-collectivists philosophies I have yet been exposed to. If you think Nietzsche inspired Nazism, you'll love Rand. Also, if you're interested enough in philosophy to have read Nietzsche, I suggest you start with Atlas Shrugged.

[songbird36]

Why does every thread about books have to turn into a discussion of Ayn Rand? Her ideas are so dated now it's not funny.

Move on guys. Read Umberto Eco.

[Claverhouse]

Why does every thread about books have to turn into a discussion of Ayn Rand? Her ideas are so dated now it's not funny.

Move on guys. Read Umberto Eco.

Why, child, don't you know that


Libertarianism (http://www.sethf.com/essays/major/libstupid.php) (pro, con, and internal faction fights) is *the* primordial netnews discussion topic. Anytime the debate shifts somewhere else, it must eventually return to this fuel source.
And that she is the Mother-Goddess of this hard-living and remorseless cult and it's self-reliant devotees ?

OK, I've mentioned that paper before: but it's good.



Claverhouse :ph34r:

[INTerloPer]

For those of you who haven't seen it, Battle Royale is a japanese import of gigantic proportions. an artsy film about japanese schoolkids forced to kill or be killed. dee-lish

[INTerloPer]

There is a movie out fairly recently that shows two bands coming up together ... I think it's called "Dig" or "Jam" something like that. K
It's called Dig! and it's on IFC right now...

[Avengardh]

Go look at blogs...
Some of them are rather entertaining.

[int]

"Exit 25: Utopia" was pretty cool. Some chapters are better than others.

And Claverhouse, I'm finally getting around to reading that article now. I put it on the list of shtuff to do a long time ago but...well...anyways, I'm printing it out now.

[sbw]

AYN RAND - Rand has written many books (fiction and non-) which deal with her philosophy, Objectivism. Essentially Objectivism demands that all persons trade value for value by debunking the myths that charity and collectivism are good. Since A truly 'charitable' act demands that the person who performs it recieve no satisfaction from the deed, and that the reciever of the joyless sacrifice be unworthy and immoral, collectivist ideals can be boiled down to one tenet: ability serving ineptitude. An Objectivist is someone who offers the world only their best, and only in return for the absolute maximum anyone is willing to pay. Objectivists refuse to sanction the moochers and looters of the world by embracing their ego and by saying one word: "NO!" If you're interested in a new way of looking at life, check out anything by Rand, from her short stories (ie. Anthem, which has an Orwellian feel) to her longer, more involved works (ie. Atlas Shrugged).

"orwellian feel" is the most perfect description of anthem...I also really enjoyed we the living. And I like the fountainhead better than atlas (more concise, less dogmatic, less fantastic). Even posthumously, she rightfully continues to sell hundreds of thousands of copies of her works every year. Ayn Rand is like the 2Pac of serious literature.

Scott

[sbw]

Check out The Warlocks - a young group out of L.A. that sounds like a combo of The Velvet Underground circa White Light/White Heat, Spiritualized and Pink Floyd. K

ooohhhhh, I LOVE spiritualized!

Scott

[sbw]

There is a movie out fairly recently that shows two bands coming up together, on the road, and which one "failed" and which one "succeeded". The Dandy's succeeded. The Brian Jonestown Massacre didn't. It's supposed to be a very good movie. Lots of behind the scenes action. I put quote marks around the two words because there are many defs of success, but here I'm talking about succeeding financially and gaining some fame etc. I think it's called "Dig" or "Jam" something like that. K

It's called "dig" and it never came to my town (I'm sad, I'll have to wait for DVD). The dandy's are good, and the BJM are/were better. I just got the BJM album "take it from the man!" (great title) back from one of my friends; I listened to it like 10 times this weekend. And yes, the songs do all sound the same.

Scott

[sbw]

It's called Dig! and it's on IFC right now...

It's on IFC? Fuck! I'm working right now, and I don't get IFC...

Scott

[gypseymothlee]

Time for some not-so-popular music. If you haven't already, check out PLACEBO ("Miss Moneypenny" & "Haemoglobin"), BRIGHT EYES ("Lover I Dont Have To Love"), POE ("Hey Pretty Remix") and GARBAGE ("Queer" & "Push It" & "Androgony")

Gonna have to second the POE (my favorite of hers is A Rose is a Rose)

And I'm going to add Articolo 31 and Nick Drake (though I'm not sure if he could still be considered unpopular)

[CapnEnnui]

Everyone listen to "Telephasic Workshop" by Boards of Canada. That song is awesome, no adjective other than awesome properly explains it. While you're at it, check out everything else by Boards of Canada, maybe some Aphex Twin or Godspeed You Black Emperor or Hexstatic too...

[sbw]

I'm listening to kasabian right now...they sound like primal scream. Which means that they're great. (I think both of those bands are big in britain, but not here in the states.)

Scott