At what stage should we start to consider suicide?

[Ferrus]

http://www.lifeaftertheoilcrash.net/breakingnews.html

Things are getting bad, quickly.

I wonder if I can buy anything like this: http://www.nitro-pak.com/ in the UK.

[MacGuffin]

Drama queen.

[Ferrus]

Drama queen.
Rather that than having my head stuck in the sand as a freight train speeds towards me.

[silady79]

Suicide is a COPOUT. You have to stay here on earth and take the crap everyone else has to deal with as well.

[Seanan]

I didn't see guns there.. you'll need a few of those to keep the rest.

[Ferrus]

Suicide is a COPOUT. You have to stay here on earth and take the crap everyone else has to deal with as well.
No - refusal to commit suicide in the face of overwhelming odds is pernicious. It is a legacy of the mysticism of Abrahamic religions, and is directly harmful in so far as not committing suicide will merely delay death by riot or starvation, and furthermore in that time one will be consuming food and oil supplies that are evermore precious. Ask Cato.

[Tsaeb XIII]

There's no such thing as overwhelming odds. No matter what happens, there is always a way to get back on your feet, and suicide is refusing to acknowledge that the possibility exists.

[dubbeltop]

At what stage should we start to consider suicide?

Considering suicide is a very healthy thing...unless youre already commited...

[Architectonic]

We should consider suicide when it becomes compulsory. :ph34r:

[fripping]

you were probably considering suicide anyway

[panda]

So, let me see if I'm understanding this. There may be a (possibly) global decrease in quality of life at some point in the future. OK, so what? Humans have suffered through far worse for tens of thousands of years. You don't think you're capable of adapting to (relatively) adverse conditions? Of course you are. You are the legacy of survivors. You have it within you to survive.

Suicide, in this situation, is, at best, ill-advised. At worst, completely retarded.

Suicide is fine, though. There's nothing wrong with suicide. In a very real sense it's completely irrelevant if one commits suicide, and unlikely to make much of a difference to anything or anyone. It seems really stupid to commit suicide specifically due to this issue, though. Really stupid.

[thod]

Why would you consider suicide? The UK imports food but if pushed it would simply turn more land to food production. The worst that would happen is war time rationing and our diet is so rich we could cut out a lot of meat etc. There would be nobody starving, we can produce all the food we need. Britain has already been through this isolation in WW2.

The country has ample rainfall so we have not threatened on water supplies.

We have our own oil, we have our own gas, the country is made of coal. A better place for wind and tide energy is hard to find. There is not going to be an energy problem.

As an island it has less to fear from hoards of refugees.

Overall the UK is one of the better places to be if things go pear shaped in the world.

[Arcades]

On top of what Thod was saying. Look at the time between ww1 and ww2. I have read some books that lend to the idea that ww2 was so bloody because the times before were so bad that it created large groups of people who were very good at surviving.The wolves ate the sheep then turned on each other.

[smalband]

Suicide is for those who've realized they're too weak to survive. Unfortunately, people smart enough to make that realization are usually the ones worth keeping..

[rainfall]

http://www.lifeaftertheoilcrash.net/breakingnews.html

Things are getting bad, quickly.

I wonder if I can buy anything like this: http://www.nitro-pak.com/ in the UK.

http://img388.imageshack.us/img388/3556/6augendisneardi3.gif

Ah, ease up and relax. Once I'll hear of the first shortages of food, I'll be doing something useful, like collecting firearms or robbing food stores.

[Andantino]

True. Save suicide for something much more dramatic.

[BlackMage]

I'll be doing something useful, like collecting firearms or robbing food stores.

That sounds extremely productive; how about trying to produce MORE food instead of exhausting minimal resources?

I'm sure there are food shortages all the time! Just take a look at Africa; is it time to pillage yet? Go steal some guns! I want to see what happens :theclap:

[Ferrus]

Why would you consider suicide? The UK imports food but if pushed it would simply turn more land to food production. The worst that would happen is war time rationing and our diet is so rich we could cut out a lot of meat etc. There would be nobody starving, we can produce all the food we need. Britain has already been through this isolation in WW2.

The country has ample rainfall so we have not threatened on water supplies.

We have our own oil, we have our own gas, the country is made of coal. A better place for wind and tide energy is hard to find. There is not going to be an energy problem.

As an island it has less to fear from hoards of refugees.

Overall the UK is one of the better places to be if things go pear shaped in the world.
Wrong. Sigh this has been explained by those who have been knowledge elsewhere.

[Oso Mocoso]

Wrong. Sigh this has been explained by those who have been knowledge elsewhere.

How can someone reasonably describe someone else as "having been knowledge"? Do you mean if they were dead, and lived only in memory, but then they were brought back to life? Tell me of your people's religion.

I think one should reserve suicide only for situations in which one has brought great shame upon one's clan. For lesser forms of dishonor, one should show restraint and sever a pinky as penance.

[!diom]

I'm working on a modern version of A Modest Proposal (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Modest_Proposal).

[Titania]

I wonder if I can buy anything like this: http://www.nitro-pak.com/ in the UK.Go find a mormon church and ask. They'd know.

[Architectonic]

But if you are going to suicide, why not go out with a bang? :ph34r:

[quantumzero]

When you spend more time feeling the possibility of relief by death, than the message you will be sending to those left alive to deal with all the pain and guilt. If you really want to die, and you're not trying to leave a big "fuck-you-this-is-your-fault" message to anyone, then do your best to make it look like an accident.
I lost a whole branch of my family to that means of death. It started when my cousin went off to college at 19 years of age, he shot himself in the head. and one by one every subsequent year, the rest of the family offed themselves in the same way.
The only one left is my cousin Miles.
Everyone is left to wonder, I live in spite of the mother fuckers.
So my only question to you is, whats the hold up?

[rainfall]

So my only question to you is, whats the hold up?
He's tricking everyone into suicide so that he's one of the few people left standing. :)

Go steal some guns! I want to see what happens :theclap:
Sure, once I see first riots and uprisings, the lack of products in stores, etc.

[panda]

I lost a whole branch of my family to that means of death. It started when my cousin went off to college at 19 years of age, he shot himself in the head. and one by one every subsequent year, the rest of the family offed themselves in the same way.
If that is true... AWESOME. I've fantasized about just that scenario for fifteen or twenty years.

[Thor]

I wonder if I can buy anything like this: http://www.nitro-pak.com/ in the UK.

MRE's are a bad buy for main personal survival stores. They're expensive ($6 a piece on sale,) they take up a lot of space for any significant quantity and you'll end up with 'digestive complications' pretty quickly if that's all you're eating.

Instead, go for dry goods like rice and beans. Doing that, you can buy 10 times the number of calories for the same price and fit THAT into 1/3 the space. I can live for a few months on my 18 gallon roughtote full of rice, beans, trailmix, etc. If I jam packed it with MRE's instead, I think three weeks would be the optimistic period.

Here's another issue with going purely for MRE's; You're going to need a LOT of drinking water for your system to process it even if you don't plan on preparing food. One of the first major rules of survival is that if you don't have water, you -don't- eat period. If you've got the water to eat MRE's, chances are you've got the water to soak/cook dry goods too.

Point is; the advantages of MRE's over dry goods don't amount to much outside a short lived disruption or a full on combat zone....

Having grown up in rural Utah amongst the Mormons, I learned how they store food, so I've modified and adapted their model to my own needs. I won't use or don't need most of what they recommend. For example, if I've got to hit my stored food, I doubt I'll want to take the time to bake bread, make pancakes or fix up a really nice dinner salad.

Anyhow, here's their 1-year supply model/calculator;

http://lds.about.com/library/bl/faq/blcalculator.htm

Also of note, MRE's have a 1 month shelf life at 120 degrees ambient temperature, something which can easily happen in a vehicle or closed container left in sunlight. I'm not aware of dry rice/beans, etc being affected similarly.

The main things I'd add to the list are some good multivamins, a good water filter and a home made solar cooker box. For that matter, a solar cooker is good in that you can also pasturize questionable water. 140 degrees inhibits bacteria, 160 kills them.

[fresh]

Where does one get the balls to commit suicide? If I weren't so afraid of hurting my family I'd do it. But it's scary.

[Architectonic]

Perhaps we should ask the internet?

Internet Sites Biased Towards Supporting Suicide:
http://science.slashdot.org/science/08/04/12/192245.shtml

[Wolf]

The food shortages are already starting. As are water shortages. They'll get us before oil, I suspect, especially since we'll probably move to our next-most-available source of fuel - coal. We'll all be running liquefied coal when oil gets too expensive.

[Ferrus]

In the medium term, coal is running out too, as is uranium.

[Architectonic]

In the medium term, coal is running out too, as is uranium.

'Medium term' being around 100 years, and 'out' meaning too expensive compared to alternatives....

[Ferrus]

'Medium term' being around 100 years, and 'out' meaning too expensive compared to alternatives....
Actually 20-40 years.

[Ferrus]

http://thescotsman.scotsman.com/fooddrinkagriculture?articleid=3980626

http://nqr.farmonline.com.au/news/nationalrural/grains-and-cropping/general/fertiliser-market-to-remain-tight/78823.aspx

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/7351913.stm

More damning evidence.

http://www.fcnp.com/news/the_peak_oil_crisis_connecting_the_dots_20080220.htm


At this point it is reasonable to ask that if so many bad things are about to happen, where are our leaders and aspirants, the President, the Cabinet, the Congress, the presidential, senatorial, and congressional candidates? The evening news, the talking heads, the syndicated columnists, the major papers? Isn’t anyone connecting the dots?

The answer is human nature. Nobody holding office or running for one wants to be associated with such devastating news. If you need an example remember poor old Jimmy Carter who was 30 years ahead of his time in warning us all -- and was blown out of office as a consequence. Dire warnings do not win elections. All the incumbents will ever do is cross their fingers and hope that things don’t come unglued before their time in office is up. For the current US administration, it is going to be close.

Those in power justify themselves by saying they do not want to cause panics – widespread hording, market sell-offs, whatever. Let the panic, which will surely come, happen on somebody else’s watch. It is too much to deal with.

[Linkage]

I personally would want to stay around to see the shit hit the fan and see what happens. Maybe they can make a movie out of it.

[Ferrus]

http://www.fwi.co.uk/Articles/2006/02/02/92308/fertiliser-prices-soar-as-plants-remain-shut.html

I see the fertiliser problem is long burning.

[Hayquipa]

Ferrus, you might be interested in this. (http://www.wilderness-survival.net/)

However, the most important ability you will need for the worst-case scenario when the oil runs out in 50 (?) years, is the will to survive. The will to survive is going to be more important than any knowledge or skill you would have obtained in your preparation. Judging from your thread title you may not have that.

[thod]

This is pure garbage if things get bad its not every man for himself eating earthworms.

What happens is groups form and take control, taking what they need for themselves first. The guy with a stash of food has it confiscated. It doesn't matter if he dies in the shoot out. They have plenty of hungry bodies so don't care about any casualties they take. These guys run all the stored facilities and take over all the production facilities. They will confiscate the farms and set the peasants to working them using food as a carrot and the gun as a stick.

The survivalist guy that is outside the system is a free target. He is out of control and consuming resources. He will rapidly be eliminated.

You survive this by making friends and having contacts. Your position in the hierarchy is everything. If you are at the bottom you will be starve. If you kill one of the militia then 10 more will come kill you. There are no wilds you can hide out in the UK and avoid people. People are everywhere.

[puzzled-observer]

There there Ferrus, we'll all be dead soon enough. No need to jump the gun. Who knows how many opportunities you'll have for sex and procreation before your death. Fulfill the evolutionary imperative!

[Kevinaswell]

I'll consider suicide when there is no more people, food, drugs, or technology left.

:)

Otherwise I think it's selfish and....boring. I'd rather live and suffer dealing with dumb shit with the hope to watch "shit hit the fan" like someone else said than die. Hell yea I'm pumped to watch shit go down.

We'll all be consumed in technology, or there will be a lot explosions.

And hot damn, I'm down for either.

[Arcades]

If it all goes in the shitter, im moving back to alaska. And staying the hell away from the cities. I have no problems living off of pine nuts, meat and water for 20 or 30 years if needs be.

[Ferrus]

You survive this by making friends and having contacts. Your position in the hierarchy is everything. If you are at the bottom you will be starve. If you kill one of the militia then 10 more will come kill you. There are no wilds you can hide out in the UK and avoid people. People are everywhere.
Which is why we, or rather this, INTP is doomed - lack of social connections and no feasible way to make them.

[Psy-goat]

Which is why we, or rather this, INTP is doomed - lack of social connections and no feasible way to make them.

Funny thing is, I had quite a few social connections before I knew I was INTP. Yea I was a little quirky, but I was never tortured by the mental calculations about my status in the world. Ever trash MBTI because of its confirmation bias? Ever seek a different way out of this mess?
Coming to INTPCentral to sort out our INTPness is kind of like an alcoholic going to the bar for his AA meetings.

[Ferrus]

Funny thing is, I had quite a few social connections before I knew I was INTP.
Good for you - I on the other hand haven't.

[Bodhi]

There's no such thing as overwhelming odds. No matter what happens, there is always a way to get back on your feet, and suicide is refusing to acknowledge that the possibility exists.

tell that to Sub-Saharan Africans

[Ferrus]

Quite.

[Denzien]

In mother Russia, you don't consider suicide - suicide considers you!

[LongSilence]

At least you know you should do your best to fulfil your potential and perhaps make something of yourself before you do yourself in, Ferrus. Who knows, perhaps things won't go as bad as you think they will. Mankind has found ways to stave off or survive a thousand "Ends of Civilisation as we know it" and hasn't come out too badly so far. And you know, a fair few of those Ends have been predicted by scientists...

Hell, Ferrus, if you're that concerned by this issue [which you obviously are] why not make it something you're actively working to explore, inform and instruct others about? Otherwise, all you're really seeming to be doing is get depressed by findings that are backing up your prediction. In short, quit being fatalist man and start doing everything you can to help others and yourself, at the very least to feel a little bit better.