Obama seals democratic nomination

[Lux et Veritas]

Is anyone else excited to see Obama lead the democratic party??

[Nighthawk]

Is anyone else excited to see Obama lead the democratic party??

I am. Let's hope he can beat McCain, else it will be business as usual for the subsequent 4 years again.

[Lux et Veritas]

i know what you mean, i really don't think i can withstand another third term of the bush administration.

[kuranes]

Guesses at who he might choose for VP ?

I've heard Chuck Hagel's name mentioned and some Virginia politicians. Hilary is pushing for it to be her. Maybe he'll make her secretary of state instead . :)

[nfinityi]

I really hope Hilary will be the VP nomination. I think it'll greatly increase their chances of winning.

[Oso Mocoso]

I really hope Hilary will be the VP nomination. I think it'll greatly increase their chances of winning.

I agree. I think it would do a great deal to unify the Democratic party. As things are, Hillary has a great deal of support and fund-raising ability. She might not be the best vice presidential pick in terms of her actually being an asset to the Obama administration in office, but she'd be a big help in getting elected.

A big risk in having her around as VP would be the fact that the only thing between Hillary and the presidency would be a well aimed bullet. That would have to keep Obama up at night, no?

[V Profane]

But what about Bobby Kennedy?

[kuranes]

A big risk in having her around as VP would be the fact that the only thing between Hillary and the presidency would be a well aimed bullet. That would have to keep Obama up at night, no?

The same thought crossed my mind.

[C.J.Woolf]

Hillary as VP? No fucking way. I believe one major reason Obama entered the race was to eliminate Clintonism in the Democratic Party -- the kind of Democrats who jump whenever the Republicans go "Boo!" Obama understands what the Clintonistas do not but the Republicans have understood forever: voters respect politicians who stand up for their positions, even if they don't agree with all of those positions.

I wouldn't mind seeing Hillary Clinton on the Supreme Court, or anyone else who will drive Scalia nuts.

[Night]

I think their union would be a profound force.

Not necessarily a viable force, mind you.

[Uberfuhrer]

My obsession with the possibility of there being a black president actually started when I first saw Deep Impact and it came to my attention that Morgan Freeman played the President of the United States. It got me thinking, "When is America going to get a black president?"

If more people vote Democrat in this election, I will get the answer to that question.

I'm not really into politics itself and I'm pretty much ignorant of political issues as it's ultimately pointless because it does nothing to help me out of my own situation.

[Arachne]

I think Obama should offer Hillary an appointed position (some have even suggested the first opening on the Supreme Court.) In the general election she'll be more of a liability to him than an asset. Primarily because Obama is running on themes of integrity and change... Hillary is a reminder of the past and (though she has other strengths) is not generally perceived as trustworthy. To chose her as VP would make Obama look like a hypocrite... and a liar.

[Night]

I think Obama should offer Hillary an appointed position (some have even suggested the first opening on the Supreme Court.)

That would be an unusual move for Obama.

Usually Supreme Court nominees develop from relatively uncontroversial judicial positions. Bureaucratic affiliation and/or political charisma tends to escalate the process for some (Sandra Day O'Connor), whereas sheer judicial brilliance (Scalia, Clarence Thomas) opens possibilities for others.

The process is pretty subjective, in terms of assessing value. I don't see Clinton sincerely ascending into such a position. Her opposition would be incredible.

[Jen]

I'm glad. :) Let's hope he has enough good sense not to choose Hillary as his running mate.

[nfinityi]

I only think Hilary would be a good choice from the perspective of people my age. We grew up in the 90's, and remember back when it was good to be American, and when we liked our president.

I think in the minds of people my age, we were given two choices: Something completely new in the form of Obama, or a return to the good old days, but with a new twist in the form of Clinton.

I really don't think Clinton will hurt Obama, at least in my generation's eyes. Hell, a friend of mine's screen name is a variation of [Bill] Clinton For Dictator.

[Arachne]

That would be an unusual move for Obama.

Usually Supreme Court nominees develop from relatively uncontroversial judicial positions. Bureaucratic affiliation and/or political charisma tends to escalate the process for some (Sandra Day O'Connor), whereas sheer judicial brilliance (Scalia, Clarence Thomas) opens possibilities for others.

The process is pretty subjective, in terms of assessing value. I don't see Clinton sincerely ascending into such a position. Her opposition would be incredible.

It would be unusual but not without precedent. For example, Chief Justice Earl Warren was Governor of California and ran for Vice President before being nominated to the Supreme Court. William Howard Taft was Chief Justice after serving as President.

[Night]

It would be unusual but not without precedent. For example, Chief Justice Earl Warren was Governor of California and ran for Vice President before being nominated to the Supreme Court. William Howard Taft was Chief Justice after serving as President.

Sure - it's happened (albeit in a substantially different technological/cultural climate (1950's) with Warren or pre-Depression Taft...).

Your examples are good, but they provide a basis for my ultimate point - the vast majority of Justices are picked from relative obscurity.

Not impossible, certainly, to see Clinton offered the appointment - highly unlikely, though.

[Arachne]

Sure - it's happened (albeit in a substantially different technological/cultural climate (1950's) with Warren or pre-Depression Taft...).

Your examples are good, but they provide a basis for my ultimate point - the vast majority of Justices are picked from relative obscurity.

Not impossible, certainly, to see Clinton offered the appointment - highly unlikely, though.

Yeah, I agree it's unlikely but I don't think it's as out-of-the-box as you do. Look at it from Obama's point-of-view. Hillary will want something. If he doesn't give her VP, is she likely to settle for a cabinet position? I highly doubt it. I think being a powerful Senator might be OK for her but that doesn't give her any incentive to really throw her support behind Obama. Supreme Court nomination might be the creative solution to a tricky problem.

[01intp]

I don't think there's going to be ANY real difference between McCain, Obama, Hillary, a giant pile of dogshit, or a rubber ducky being elected president of this country.

Definitely not an opinion I can voice frequently without small children begining to cry and the elderly shaking their canes in my general direction, so hear me out.

What is the president besides a token figure, a puppet carefully selected to be appealing to certain demographics, a horrible evil cocksucker who is polished to perfection for mass appeal?

What are the elections besides a banal popularity contest whose only real goal is the government elite allowing us to THINK that we actually have some CHOICE in how this country is run?

What are the majority of Americans (and the majority of any nationality anywhere in the world) except stupid sheep who are easily distracted by non-issues, good looking people in expensive suits spouting catch phrases like 'Change!' and 'Believe In!', etc?

The course of this country is not being steered by we the people, because we the people are the mob. The easily swayed masses. The real people in charge, the people WE never see because they are far too smart to openly reveal themselves, the people with the MONEY, know exactly how to steer and trick us.

This time around the old merry go round of election dumbness, they have carefully selected three puppets that are SURE to appeal to different sheep demographics - no matter WHO wins however, the masters still retain iron control.
Let's examine why:

POPULAR REACTION TO OBAMA - "Wow! He's black, like ohmigod! That's like, soooo progressive, dude! If I vote for him all my subtle racism is like, totally forgiven - RADICAL!!!!1 Plus he's good looking like that Denzel Washington dude - did you see him in Training Day all like 'I AM KING KONG, NIGGA!' I SOOO hope OBAMA does that when he wins, that would RAWK!"

WHY HE'S A PUPPET: Remember when Rev. Wright spouted off about Amerikkka causing 9/11, and of course, OBAMA vehemently denied it?
Umm, duuuh, Rev. Wright was RIGHT!
Amerikkka DID CAUSE 9/11 YOU STUPID FUCKING SHEEP! The global policies of our country, funding terrorists all over the world, selling arms, covert ops and fucking over the Arabs to please our Israeli overlords who have the $$$$ which actually runs this country - CAME BACK TO BITE US IN THE ASS! WOW, who could have predicted that one?!
Oh wait, the PEOPLE WHO WERE RESPONSIBLE FOR IT!
Now we can be scared of terrorists for DECADES, spend MASSIVE ammount of tax money on weapons and further enrich the people in charge.
Who cares if this country goes to shit as a result, like the Roman Empire before it, bled dry from a million cuts?
The rich never lose - they'll just move to China, the next super-capitalist-power in line.

OBAMA might sway the liberals with talk of pulling out of Iraq, that festering whore of a country we stuck our big Amerikkkan dick into, but guess what - the disease we got from her ain't going away. The 'War on Terror' will continue and I bet anyone all my money our foreign policy will never be changed. His 'CHANGE!' shit is nothing but game, like what players tell stupid skanks to get in their panties. And OBAMA is a PIMP, YO!
Just ask OBAMA GIRL...*shudder*

:banana: :stupid: :devil:

[angelique]

I don't think there's going to be ANY real difference between McCain, Obama, Hillary, a giant pile of dogshit, or a rubber ducky being elected president of this country.

Definitely not an opinion I can voice frequently without small children begining to cry and the elderly shaking their canes in my general direction, so hear me out.

What is the president besides a token figure, a puppet carefully selected to be appealing to certain demographics, a horrible evil cocksucker who is polished to perfection for mass appeal?

What are the elections besides a banal popularity contest whose only real goal is the government elite allowing us to THINK that we actually have some CHOICE in how this country is run?

What are the majority of Americans (and the majority of any nationality anywhere in the world) except stupid sheep who are easily distracted by non-issues, good looking people in expensive suits spouting catch phrases like 'Change!' and 'Believe In!', etc?

The course of this country is not being steered by we the people, because we the people are the mob. The easily swayed masses. The real people in charge, the people WE never see because they are far too smart to openly reveal themselves, the people with the MONEY, know exactly how to steer and trick us.

This time around the old merry go round of election dumbness, they have carefully selected three puppets that are SURE to appeal to different sheep demographics - no matter WHO wins however, the masters still retain iron control.
Let's examine why:

POPULAR REACTION TO OBAMA - "Wow! He's black, like ohmigod! That's like, soooo progressive, dude! If I vote for him all my subtle racism is like, totally forgiven - RADICAL!!!!1 Plus he's good looking like that Denzel Washington dude - did you see him in Training Day all like 'I AM KING KONG, NIGGA!' I SOOO hope OBAMA does that when he wins, that would RAWK!"

WHY HE'S A PUPPET: Remember when Rev. Wright spouted off about Amerikkka causing 9/11, and of course, OBAMA vehemently denied it?
Umm, duuuh, Rev. Wright was RIGHT!
Amerikkka DID CAUSE 9/11 YOU STUPID FUCKING SHEEP! The global policies of our country, funding terrorists all over the world, selling arms, covert ops and fucking over the Arabs to please our Israeli overlords who have the $$$$ which actually runs this country - CAME BACK TO BITE US IN THE ASS! WOW, who could have predicted that one?!
Oh wait, the PEOPLE WHO WERE RESPONSIBLE FOR IT!
Now we can be scared of terrorists for DECADES, spend MASSIVE ammount of tax money on weapons and further enrich the people in charge.
Who cares if this country goes to shit as a result, like the Roman Empire before it, bled dry from a million cuts?
The rich never lose - they'll just move to China, the next super-capitalist-power in line.

OBAMA might sway the liberals with talk of pulling out of Iraq, that festering whore of a country we stuck our big Amerikkkan dick into, but guess what - the disease we got from her ain't going away. The 'War on Terror' will continue and I bet anyone all my money our foreign policy will never be changed. His 'CHANGE!' shit is nothing but game, like what players tell stupid skanks to get in their panties. And OBAMA is a PIMP, YO!
Just ask OBAMA GIRL...*shudder*

:banana: :stupid: :devil:

:rofl:

OK some of what you said me laugh.

I think Obama will make a great president and with Hillary as his running mate, he'll make an even better president.

As the poster-boy of the interracial union who has come out of Hawaii to inspire an entire nation and to essentially carry on what the Clintons had been doing in office is a huge difference from the same old rhetoric we were receiving as warmongels for the last 8 years. :)

Angelique

[Laura-Laurent]

I'm Australian so I don't really follow this stuff, but I heard he is ENFP which seems pretty unusual for politics. Not that I follow this stuff much in my own country, either.

[01intp]

Your reply essentially summarizes the attitude of the masses, largely ignorant of the real issues we will all have to deal with as a country and as a planet in the near future.

'Interracial', 'inspire a nation', 'Like the Clintons' (should have said like Kennedy, that's FAR more fashionable), 'not the same old rhetoric', etc.

None of these holds up to scrutiny besides the fact that he is, indeed, of mixed race. But so what? Why is that a selling point - besides that it makes wanna-be-progressive whiteys feel, well, progressive?
Like bragging about your one black friend?

What is inspirational about Obama besides this? The obvious answer is like all puppets in politics, he's a good looking older (but not too old!) guy who talks well. That's IT!
The rest is media promotion machine propoganda stuffed down your throat over and over again. Repetition is key here folks, just like Hitler said - you repeat a lie often enough, it becomes the truth as far as everyone is concerned.

The Clinton administration, while not blatanly in-your-face-fucked-up like Bush's, was full of major problems and SNAFUS. Like say that time we blew up the factory responsible for most of Sudan's pharmaceuticals because we thought it was producing chemical weapons, and of course, it wasn't. Thousands of Africans died as a result though the true number was never verified because the US blocked UN investigations in the matter.
Hmmm, blowing shit up because of faulty intelligence, sounds kinda familiar...
The Kennedies, despite being loved by Americans (once again, pretty boy President = inspirational, a dynasty, OMFG!!!!!1 - ya fucking sheep) are no better. Plenty of fucked up shit suggarcoated by good image and press.

Not the same old rhetoric?! This really makes ME laugh! Every fucking politician cocksucker ever has talked the same game, with different words. Change, progress, promise of a better future, yada yada yada, EVERY FUCKING 4 YEARS!
Thankfully, the average moron's attention span is so short that we forget this.
In fact, we LOVE this circus! It's like Monday night football, and we can all pick a TEAM TO ROOT FOR! GO OBAMA!! GO MCCAIN!! GO TURD SANDWICH AND GIANT DOUCHE!!! CHANGE!!! INSPIRATIONAL!!! MULTIRACIAL!!!
Fucking sheep.

Our love of this bullshit speaks to the sheer mastery and evil cunning of the people with the money, the people in control. There are entire think-tanks devoted to studying just how to appeal best to the masses. How to sway opinion. How to pain or disguise an issue. This isn't change, it's more of the same.
As world resources deplete, as food and water becomes short, as overpopulation and disease grow more and more prolific, we will have REAL change.
As the bodies pile up, as the streets of San Francisco, Chicago, New York, etc. begin to look like the streets of Mogadishu, with rotting bodies and gunfights between streetgangs competing over limited resources, with no police force funded enough to stop them, THAT will be REAL CHANGE!
As some rich Chinese photographer takes pictures of thin, sickly looking American midwesterners as they try to forage enough scraps to feed their kids, THAT will be CHANGE!

And that time is coming baby. Just wait a decade or two. Ooooh, I can't wait. I'll be the guy riding around in a MadMax-esque dune buggy with a machine gun strapped to the roof. :highfive:

[Lux et Veritas]

A big risk in having her around as VP would be the fact that the only thing between Hillary and the presidency would be a well aimed bullet. That would have to keep Obama up at night, no?

I completly agree. Its a scary thing to think about though... some people would do anything to get what they want and I wouldn't put anything past the Clintons.

[Oso Mocoso]

As the bodies pile up, as the streets of San Francisco, Chicago, New York, etc. begin to look like the streets of Mogadishu, with rotting bodies and gunfights between streetgangs competing over limited resources, with no police force funded enough to stop them, THAT will be REAL CHANGE!
As some rich Chinese photographer takes pictures of thin, sickly looking American midwesterners as they try to forage enough scraps to feed their kids, THAT will be CHANGE!

Hey 01intp, I don't think I've had occasion to formally welcome you to the forum. Welcome! I am glad there's finally someone around here who is not afraid to speak truth to power. At last a voice that speaks with poise, eloquence, and panache. Finally, there's someone with whom we can have a sober, reasonable discussion regarding American electoral politics.

[Hustler]

If Obama wants to win the election, he probably shouldn't choose Hillary as a running mate. He'd do better off with a southerner if he wants to steal some of the middle-ground votes away from McCain and have any shot of cracking the conservative stronghold of the South. An argument can be made that Hillary can deliver the female vote better than a southern white guy, but then, there are a few southern democratic female senators who, while they don't have the name brand recognition of Clinton yet, could still deliver the same votes that Hillary could, without all the baggage Hillary has.

[nfinityi]

Hey 01intp, I don't think I've had occasion to formally welcome you to the forum. Welcome! I am glad there's finally someone around here who is not afraid to speak truth to power. At last a voice that speaks with poise, eloquence, and panache. Finally, there's someone with whom we can have a sober, reasonable discussion regarding American electoral politics.
Move over audacity of hope and make way for the audacity to compare a present day politician to Hitler! How poignant!

[kuranes]

I don't think Hilary will get the VP slot, based on some off the record comments that were made, although its still possible. She has "suspended" her campaign, and will supposedly get behind Obama at some point, perhaps after some ceremony at the convention about the uniqueness of her campaign in history etc.

Obama could pick Richardson, to go for the Latino vote, and whatever else Richardson supposedly represents. I think it would be a mistake if he did, although Richardson does seem like a genuinely nice guy. He's never struck me as being very articulate when he's under even slight pressure in public speaking.

Your reply essentially summarizes the attitude of the masses, largely ignorant of the real issues we will all have to deal with as a country and as a planet in the near future.

Well, I did read that Jim Johnson ( one of three people helping Obama pick a VP ) is connected to the Bilderbergs. :) I guess, if one accepts this view, I would still wonder why not support the lesser of two evils, unless you believe that there is no difference whatsoever. Would you have supported Mike Gravel if he had gotten the Libertarian nomination vs. Barr ?

Besides possibly acquiring a machine gun, and "being aware of the deception" etc. what are you doing to ensure ( or attempt to reserve ) an advantage in the thug/warlord world you see coming ? If your diatribe is all you've got, I'm not impressed. You think China will prevail, it seems. Are you therefore learning Mandarin ?

[kuranes]

If Obama wants to win the election, he probably shouldn't choose Hillary as a running mate. He'd do better off with a southerner if he wants to steal some of the middle-ground votes away from McCain and have any shot of cracking the conservative stronghold of the South. An argument can be made that Hillary can deliver the female vote better than a southern white guy, but then, there are a few southern democratic female senators who, while they don't have the name brand recognition of Clinton yet, could still deliver the same votes that Hillary could, without all the baggage Hillary has.

Agreed. It's also been said that he might even pick a Republican, like Hagel. He may be tempted by Colin Powell, too, but he couldn't pick him; not even in this "enlightened" 21st century USA.

[rawr]

I'd vote for John McCain before I ever voted an expressed communist into office. :-X

[Limey]

I'd like to see Edwards on the ticket, I've never liked or trusted Hillary, but I'll take the slimy/smarmy Lawyer over her. It could be springtime for habitants in Carolina if he remembers half the crap he told them.

[PsiKik]

I don't think there's going to be ANY real difference between McCain, Obama, Hillary, a giant pile of dogshit, or a rubber ducky being elected president of this country.

What is the president besides a token figure, a puppet carefully selected to be appealing to certain demographics, a horrible evil cocksucker who is polished to perfection for mass appeal?


Agree with most of this, however there is a difference in this case.

I am sick of the 'there is no difference between the candidates' argument.
When people have this apathetic attitude and don't vote because of it, they are playing into the hands of those behind the scenes in power you speak about.

I believe that if more people got of their lazy fat asses and voted, took an interest in politics then there
would eventually be more candidates
inspired to run and there would be change.

The apathetic attitude just prolongs the status quo.

Personally I am thrilled Obama is now the Dems candidate. If I was an American I would vote for him.

[Limey]

Agree with most of this, however there is a difference in this case.

I am sick of the 'there is no difference between the candidates' argument.
When people have this apathetic attitude and don't vote because of it, they are playing into the hands of those behind the scenes in power you speak about.

I believe that if more people got of their lazy fat asses and voted, took an interest in politics then there
would eventually be more candidates
inspired to run and there would be change.

The apathetic attitude just prolongs the status quo.

Personally I am thrilled Obama is now the Dems candidate. If I was an American I would vote for him.

Agree with most of this, however, the fiascoes with votes in Michigan and Florida, (a state with FAIL written all over it) and the fact that Hillary actual won "the popular vote" (had more members of the public actually vote for her) only serves to exacerbate the "what's the point" mentality.
Ted Kennedy probably already picked the nominee.

[garak]

Hillary is a disgusting person and I hope she goes away as quickly and thoroughly as possible.

Edwards would be pretty decent. He is a little too slick at times, but for a mainstream politician I think he's not too bad of a guy. I like how he talks about fighting the megacorps and whatnot, though I have no idea how much he practices what he preaches.

[nfinityi]

So does anyone else have a creeping voice in the back of their head that thinks Obama will be assassinated if he's elected, reguardless of his VP pick?

[foodeater]

Agreed. It's also been said that he might even pick a Republican, like Hagel. He may be tempted by Colin Powell, too, but he couldn't pick him; not even in this "enlightened" 21st century USA.

That would be great! I always liked Powell.

But you're right, (white) people wouldn't go for that.

I don't think I'd vote for Obama if Clinton was up for VP. The whole 'bullet away from president' thing is scary. The reason I would like to see Obama in office is that almost everyone I've heard talk about him (military leaders included) think he would be a good leader and could unite the country. His experience could easily be overshadowed by pretty words, I think.

[Ferrus]

no police force funded enough to stop them, THAT will be REAL CHANGE!

Haha, the Chinese are going down too.

[Zephyrus055]

I'm pretty pissed, because now he has a good probability of acquiring the office. It would have been better if he was crushed right then and there in the Democratic nomination.

My reasons for hating Obama are deep. I don't have a problem with his foreign policy and social positions as much, but his economic policy makes my blood boil. Income taxes increased. Capital gains taxes doubled. Taxes on investments raised to match income taxes. Taxable money on estates back to $1 million. A government monopoly on health care, and student aid rewards for volunteer and peace corp participation. SO FUCK YOU OBAMA!

This will lead to:

1. A health care system of poor service and even higher inefficiency and cost. The right solution is a free-market solution. The only reason universal health care works in some countries is because they are small and have smaller populations. It's easier for a monopoly to deliver services to consumers when it is smaller. It's the bigger you are the more red tape and harder to micromanage adage.
2. His policy on dramatically increasing funding to education is only going to raise its already existing poor inefficiency and cost. For example, the cost of books are through the roof because the textbook companies are operated by an oligopoly, and this oligopoly compels authors to rewrite new editions even if they are a simple rearrangement of pages and words. Identify the causes for high education costs and cut them, don't add fuel to the fire.
3. Adding student aid rewards for volunteer and peace corps participation. This will expand state power and further subject the will of individuals to the state.
4. More taxes on investments and capital gains. Investment and consumption in the US will plummet, worsening our economic conditions even more. Who wants to pay 30% on capital gains or on their returns?

Well that's Obama for you. He has proposed socialist policies, has bashed the Clintons for their Machiavellianism, and he has very little experience. This tells me very clearly that he's a wacko ideologue who can only give good speeches. At least the Clintons were pragmatic and Machiavellian, and though it's offensive to many it's necessary for an effective ruler.

Anyhow, Clinton won't accept the VP, nor will Obama accept her as the VP. Obama would compromise his principles and then ruin himself, and Clinton would reduce her power. More than likely Clinton is plotting her vengeful come back four years from now, and is counting on Obama hanging himself with all the rope he's been given.

[s0978]

okay, I'll say it:

Brown president with female VP? No WAY would it happen, and they aren't dumb enough to try it.

[01intp]

Hey 01intp, I don't think I've had occasion to formally welcome you to the forum. Welcome!

Thanks for the welcome! I've been lurking a while, the forum is a great distraction from work at the office. I find myself agreeing with a lot of topics discussed which is why I was a bit surprised at how many here seemed to buy into this whole political 'hoorah democracy!' donkey show our government has going on.



Move over audacity of hope and make way for the audacity to compare a present day politician to Hitler! How poignant!


Note that I never compared OBAMA or the other candidates to Hitler. I DID however state that the political tactics Hitler used to come to power are still being used today. I don't think ANYBODY can deny that Hitler was politically a genius. The image he built for himself, his speeches, his delivery - fine tuned to perfection and it worked perfectly. An entire country rallied behind his insane ideas, willingly elected him to power, sacrificed themselves for the fantasy he created in their minds of the Fatherland's 1000-year-Reich! I don't think even pimp-a-licious pretty boy OBAMA can top that! ;)



Besides possibly acquiring a machine gun, and "being aware of the deception" etc. what are you doing to ensure ( or attempt to reserve ) an advantage in the thug/warlord world you see coming ? If your diatribe is all you've got, I'm not impressed. You think China will prevail, it seems. Are you therefore learning Mandarin ?


Training of course, my friend, training! The body and the mind, naturally. By day a mild mannered office worker, by night a humble caterpillar patiently working on its metamorphosis into a butterfly of destruction, complete with laser-beam cannons on its head and uber-sweet speed metal soundtrack whenever it swoops into battle! :ph34r: :headphone:

In all seriousness, I am accumulating knowledge on wilderness survival and improvising nourishment and shelter solutions when the things we take for granted now in this country have been used up (like electricity, clean water, fuel, food), training in hand to hand combat (Krav Maga) and hopefully soon, will buy some sort of firearm and begin long range combat training.
I've been a fan and student of military strategy and tactics since childhood.
Most crucially, I am slowly but surely meeting the kinds of people that share my cynical, cold hearted views on life.

The key to all this of course is that it's pure sillyness (or insanity, if you will) to go around hiding in a bunker, waiting for armageddon like some already do today. Like I said, I work in an office, making a comfortable salary. Besides my Krav Maga training, which is the butt of jokes in my direction something from the coworkers, few know of my actual views. I prefer it that way!
Only a fool lays out all his cards on the table, and for now, society is wonderfully set up to pamper our every need. But it cannot, will not last. Our greedy growth is surpassing even our technological progression.
We are decades away from even a simple colony on a nearby satelite, like the Moon, yet this is the only thing that can possibly save our civilization in its current form.
We cannot keep multiplying without expanding - like some horrible advanced fungus or bacteria - and colonizing and 'eating up' other planets, moons, asteroids, etc. for their metals and resources and sheer space to hold all of us comfortably.

So my humble theory is that we will have to take a few steps backwards in development before we can try again. This 'dark age' might last a few centuries, where hundreds of millions (if not billions) will die from hunger, war, anarchy. But unless we manage to totally wipe ourselves out, our ancestors can rebuild and perhaps improve on the design we seem to have so far failed to realize.

So to answer your question, what I'm doing now is enjoying the best, while preparing for the worst! And of course, laughing at all the people who take this small minded political crap seriously as if in the end, it will really matter where the Giant Douche or the Turd Sandwich is our glorious Fuhrer (oops, there goes that Hitler comparison again!) ;) :stupid: :P

Oh and incidently, my big sister is fluent in Mandarin Chinese. I'm hoping to mooch off her until I catch on ;)



I am sick of the 'there is no difference between the candidates' argument.
When people have this apathetic attitude and don't vote because of it, they are playing into the hands of those behind the scenes in power you speak about.

I believe that if more people got of their lazy fat asses and voted, took an interest in politics then there
would eventually be more candidates
inspired to run and there would be change.

The apathetic attitude just prolongs the status quo.


I don't think it matters. Why? Because the people with the money hold all the cards. There are some of the small-party candidates that I almost want to believe in - but the trouble is, they will NEVER get elected because they have no money.
Our political system is designed to ensure that if you do not have $$$$ or can't suck enough cock of big corporate giants to give you some (guess what they'll want in return?), you WILL NOT WIN this feeble popularity contest of an election.

It's a Catch 22. Either you're a bottom feeding cock sucker who whores himself for mass appeal and big bucks, or you don't win. If you do whore yourself for big bucks, you're just buying into the system and the people with the money have you by the balls.
So tell me again, what's the point?

And don't even say revolution is the answer. People today are too lazy and comfortable to revolt.
Not until we start running out of shit that we take for granted that the masses will wake up - but then it'll be too late. :sadbanana:




Haha, the Chinese are going down too.


Agreed! They might outlast the American Empire in the shortrun, but the longrun will see the downfall of all major world governments.
Once resources and money runs out, so will their stranglehold on power.
The rich will still be OK though, and will be the most likely to make it through the chaos. Like feudal-age kings and queens they will have enough stuff stockpiled to hire and maintain private armies.

[colormegone]

My obsession with the possibility of there being a black president actually started when I first saw Deep Impact and it came to my attention that Morgan Freeman played the President of the United States. It got me thinking, "When is America going to get a black president?"


If you're being tongue-in-cheek, this is the funniest thing I've read in weeks. But you're probably not so I'll just pretend.

[Zergling]

The only reason universal health care works in some countries is because they are small and have smaller populations.

Let's see the data to back this up.

[Meliora]

Let's see the data to back this up.

I think he's just saying that you can't so easily extrapolate a system of healthcare that works nicely in countries that are a fraction of the size and population of the U.S., at least as far as assuming it will work just as smoothly or effectively.

[Ann]

I really hope Hilary will be the VP nomination. I think it'll greatly increase their chances of winning.

It will increase their chances of winning I'm sure, but I don't think it would work out in the long run.

I am having trouble believing in all that Obama promises. It seems like everything is at the top of his "list." I mean help for the Native Americans and their drug problems...? At the top of your non-existent list?! I just hope he sticks to his views on the war because that's the only reason I'm voting for him. I just can't see my vote going towards McCain, but I can't base everything off of the current war, I guess. Quite honestly politics usually go right over my head, at least I have until November to read up on everything more thoroughly. I just wish there was proof that what the candidates promise us is actually the truth... I just wish there were different candidates, actually. :mellow:

[Zephyrus055]

I think he's just saying that you can't so easily extrapolate a system of healthcare that works nicely in countries that are a fraction of the size and population of the U.S., at least as far as assuming it will work just as smoothly or effectively.
Exactly what I meant, thank you.

[Limey]

I'd like to see Morgan Freeman as president, with Samuel L. Jackson as secretary for defense, Chris Rock as home secretary and Dave Chapelle in charge of hemp industries.

Hillary can do something with healthcare, in-case anyone asks where the white women at.

[Karl]

I'm interested about what happens but I don't think it'll make much of a difference for most people. Maybe Obama can get health care to more people and tone down foreign policy enough for anti-imperialists to make some temporary gains. He certainly has less political ties than Clinton, so maybe he can do some of this.

I have been predicting that a Republican would win for a few years now, and everyone just rolled their eyes at me. "People would never elect another republican, not after Bush!" Now we're getting closer to elections and we have McCain and people aren't so sure. Many republicans accuse him of being too liberal (but still guarantee their vote for him), he has attractive personal qualities, (like Obama actually) and should have greater corporate/government support, what with rigging and everything. I don't claim that they rig an entirely different candidate in but the votes have certainly been pushed one way during close elections. So I still predict a McCain win. He may be below in the polls now, but when we start seeing some Obama versus McCain TV commercials and debates, that should start changing. Let's see if Obama can keep his support up.

For me, the dilemma is whether I should vote for Nader (Mike Gravel freaked me out by joining the Libertarian party) or just not vote.

[Limey]

They say McCain and Obama are neck and neck and now McCain has challenged Obama to a town hall meeting.

Not only should Obama see him at the townhall, he should take him to the bridge.

I still don't understand the logic of acting like a spaz because a politician wants to meet with "anti-American" leaders - someone buy this cartoon faced McCain a copy of Sun Tzu.

[kuranes]

Not only should Obama see him at the townhall, he should take him to the bridge.

Or the cleaners.

"Where's that confounded bridge ? "

[Limey]

Or the cleaners.

"Where's that confounded bridge ? "

In my head it was out by Nutbush city limits.

[bonsai]

I'll be very surprised if he wins. The neocons are going to have a field day with him.

[C.J.Woolf]

The neocons are going to have a field day with him.
Wha? The neocons have demonstrated to tout le monde what all the insiders except the Cheney-Bush clique always knew: they're full of shit.

[bonsai]

Wha? The neocons have demonstrated to tout le monde what all the insiders except the Cheney-Bush clique always knew: they're full of shit.

Yeah, that's what people said 4 years ago too.

A young, black, Muslim man, with the name of Hussein running on a tax heavy, socially liberal platform running for President in one of the most socially ignorant, white dominated, and conservative countries in the world and you don't see any issues? Sadly, the American people don't vote with their brains, Obama is a propoganda bullseye.

[kuranes]

white dominated

Huh ?

[Karl]

Yeah, that's what people said 4 years ago too.

A young, black, Muslim man, with the name of Hussein running on a tax heavy, socially liberal platform running for President in one of the most socially ignorant, white dominated, and conservative countries in the world and you don't see any issues? Sadly, the American people don't vote with their brains, Obama is a propoganda bullseye.

I don't think he's a Muslim anymore. I mean he had a pastor that pissed everyone off by saying that this is a white dominated country and that he believed in the Tuskagee Expiriment conspiracy theory... but anyway, either he's renounced his heathen ways or he never was a Muslim, I'm not quite sure.

As for being Black, he's attractive, a good speaker, and he's saying the things whites like to hear. I don't think that will be an issue.

So while I say Obama won't win, I don't think it'll be because of what you're saying. Some people care about that, but then Blacks seem to be voting for Obama en masse, which should balance that out a bit.

[Arachne]

I don't think he's a Muslim anymore. I mean he had a pastor that pissed everyone off by saying that this is a white dominated country and that he believed in the Tuskagee Expiriment conspiracy theory... but anyway, either he's renounced his heathen ways or he never was a Muslim, I'm not quite sure.

As for being Black, he's attractive, a good speaker, and he's saying the things whites like to hear. I don't think that will be an issue.

So while I say Obama won't win, I don't think it'll be because of what you're saying. Some people care about that, but then Blacks seem to be voting for Obama en masse, which should balance that out a bit.

For the record, he never was Muslim. His father, who pretty much named him and left, was Muslim. The thing some people will see as even more dangerous is that he was raised without religion of any kind... and may be a closet ATHEIST.

BTW, I recommend his book Dreams of My Father. It was a surprisingly good read.

[C.J.Woolf]

... and may be a closet ATHEIST.
Like Abe Lincoln.*






*I like to think he was, anyway.

[demagogic_schizoid]

fuck identity politics.

2/3 of the poor in the US are white

I accept that there is terrible racism in the US and yes of course black communties should have the right to miltiantly fight this themselves and not have to wait for some "consensus" which doesn't offend white people.

but, Obama has black skin, so what, he's not exactly struggled through hardship himself has he, and now he's just a slick soundbite politician ala Tony Blair.

Fuck Obama whatever colour his skin is, he has no answers for poor latino, white, or black people.

[Limey]

For the record, he never was Muslim. His father, who pretty much named him and left, was Muslim. The thing some people will see as even more dangerous is that he was raised without religion of any kind... and may be a closet ATHEIST.

BTW, I recommend his book Dreams of My Father. It was a surprisingly good read.

an INTJ atheist calling the shots? hmm - apparently Rumsfeld and Rove both are/were, too. I just hope he doesn't corrupt (too much) to the detriment is disclusion of entire groups of society, either in the way that female managers feel they have something to prove to male peers by treating junior females poorly, or in blatant favoritism of people that he identifies with from his own subjective background/upbringing.
This is essentially human nature that describes us all to some degree and I'm probably biased myself in thinking that an INTJ should be [best?] able to overcome this subjectivity.

I really liked his response to the Hillary ticket about how he would be deliberate, methodical and careful, he speaks logic with no gush and I like that. I'm not a fan of his goth lipstick, but I would vote for him if I weren't an unwashed immigrant.

[Arachne]

an INTJ atheist calling the shots? hmm - apparently Rumsfeld and Rove both are/were, too. I just hope he doesn't corrupt (too much) to the detriment is disclusion of entire groups of society, either in the way that female managers feel they have something to prove to male peers by treating junior females poorly, or in blatant favoritism of people that he identifies with from his own subjective background/upbringing.
This is essentially human nature that describes us all to some degree and I'm probably biased myself in thinking that an INTJ should be [best?] able to overcome this subjectivity.

I really liked his response to the Hillary ticket about how he would be deliberate, methodical and careful, he speaks logic with no gush and I like that. I'm not a fan of his goth lipstick, but I would vote for him if I weren't an unwashed immigrant.

Have you heard he is an INTJ? I've heard ENFP thrown around but I don't know. Reading his book he demonstrates a very clear, strong preference for iNtuitive perception but whether he is ultimately a feeler or a thinker is less clear.

[Limey]

Have you heard he is an INTJ? I've heard ENFP thrown around but I don't know. Reading his book he demonstrates a very clear, strong preference for iNtuitive perception but whether he is ultimately a feeler or a thinker is less clear.


Just personal perception. http://typelogic.com/ has it all wrong, in my opinion. At the very least, most of the I/Es seem to be swapped.

[Ferrus]

Like Abe Lincoln.*






*I like to think he was, anyway.
From what little I know he was a closet agnostic which was a lot more common in the era than one might expect.

[Lateralus]

Fuck Obama whatever colour his skin is, he has no answers for poor latino, white, or black people.
Why do you say that?

[Limey]

More importantly, what color skin does a straw man have?

[Zephyrus055]

Why do you say that?
Lets talk about increasing funding to education, as an example of "Obama relief to the poor." The education system is horribly inefficient. Tuition costs reflect the prestige of a university, the cost of books are jacked up because a small number of companies dominate the publishing market, and only 5% of college sports team cover themselves (meaning tuition and tax payer money has to pay for the other 95%, and it's high). Now if you ask me, there's big problems existing all ready. Obama's proposal will add fuel to the fire, making the cost of education even more expensive in the future. I say make the system efficient by cutting the crap.

[Lateralus]

Lets talk about increasing funding to education, as an example of "Obama relief to the poor." The education system is horribly inefficient. Tuition costs reflect the prestige of a university, the cost of books are jacked up because a small number of companies dominate the publishing market, and only 5% of college sports team cover themselves (meaning tuition and tax payer money has to pay for the other 95%, and it's high). Now if you ask me, there's big problems existing all ready. Obama's proposal will add fuel to the fire, making the cost of education even more expensive in the future. I say make the system efficient by cutting the crap.
You sound like you've been reading some Thomas Sowell.

[Zephyrus055]

You sound like you've been reading some Thomas Sowell.

Who's Thomas Sowell?

[angelique]

Your reply essentially summarizes the attitude of the masses, largely ignorant of the real issues we will all have to deal with as a country and as a planet in the near future.

'Interracial', 'inspire a nation', 'Like the Clintons' (should have said like Kennedy, that's FAR more fashionable), 'not the same old rhetoric', etc.

Of course it's rhetoric, but hey, it's the wave of the future. Get used to it. My generation doesn't define "Americans" as being white, white collar, blond-blue.


None of these holds up to scrutiny besides the fact that he is, indeed, of mixed race. But so what? Why is that a selling point - besides that it makes wanna-be-progressive whiteys feel, well, progressive?
Like bragging about your one black friend?

What is inspirational about Obama besides this? The obvious answer is like all puppets in politics, he's a good looking older (but not too old!) guy who talks well. That's IT!
The rest is media promotion machine propoganda stuffed down your throat over and over again. Repetition is key here folks, just like Hitler said - you repeat a lie often enough, it becomes the truth as far as everyone is concerned.

Actually Obama is kinda young. At least compared to everyone else in politics.


The Clinton administration, while not blatanly in-your-face-fucked-up like Bush's, was full of major problems and SNAFUS. Like say that time we blew up the factory responsible for most of Sudan's pharmaceuticals because we thought it was producing chemical weapons, and of course, it wasn't. Thousands of Africans died as a result though the true number was never verified because the US blocked UN investigations in the matter.
Hmmm, blowing shit up because of faulty intelligence, sounds kinda familiar...
The Kennedies, despite being loved by Americans (once again, pretty boy President = inspirational, a dynasty, OMFG!!!!!1 - ya fucking sheep) are no better. Plenty of fucked up shit suggarcoated by good image and press.

Not the same old rhetoric?! This really makes ME laugh! Every fucking politician cocksucker ever has talked the same game, with different words. Change, progress, promise of a better future, yada yada yada, EVERY FUCKING 4 YEARS!
Thankfully, the average moron's attention span is so short that we forget this.
In fact, we LOVE this circus! It's like Monday night football, and we can all pick a TEAM TO ROOT FOR! GO OBAMA!! GO MCCAIN!! GO TURD SANDWICH AND GIANT DOUCHE!!! CHANGE!!! INSPIRATIONAL!!! MULTIRACIAL!!!
Fucking sheep.

Our love of this bullshit speaks to the sheer mastery and evil cunning of the people with the money, the people in control. There are entire think-tanks devoted to studying just how to appeal best to the masses. How to sway opinion. How to pain or disguise an issue. This isn't change, it's more of the same.
As world resources deplete, as food and water becomes short, as overpopulation and disease grow more and more prolific, we will have REAL change.
As the bodies pile up, as the streets of San Francisco, Chicago, New York, etc. begin to look like the streets of Mogadishu, with rotting bodies and gunfights between streetgangs competing over limited resources, with no police force funded enough to stop them, THAT will be REAL CHANGE!
As some rich Chinese photographer takes pictures of thin, sickly looking American midwesterners as they try to forage enough scraps to feed their kids, THAT will be CHANGE!

Actually that happens all the time. China and Japan own a significant part of the US.


And that time is coming baby. Just wait a decade or two. Ooooh, I can't wait. I'll be the guy riding around in a MadMax-esque dune buggy with a machine gun strapped to the roof. :highfive:

lol!

Your Republican tendencies are showing itself.

[dubbeltop]

Obama seals democratic nomination

I wonder when Russia gets obamafied.....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0fd-MVU4vtU

l(atino obama 2008 mariachi add....)

edit : other words with OBAMA!!!

http://politicalhumor.about.com/b/2008/02/21/the-english-language-has-become-obamafied.htm

[Lateralus]

Actually Obama is kinda young. At least compared to everyone else in politics.
He's older than your generation.

[Shoot!]

He's older than your generation.

Yes, but in my view he's not the same old same old politician. I don't see why in the HELL anyone would want to vote for McCain, though. If most of the people in the U.S. are unhappy with the way Bush has run things, why would we vote for pretty much a carbon copy? Because of his extensive military experience?

[Karl]

Yes, but in my view he's not the same old same old politician. I don't see why in the HELL anyone would want to vote for McCain, though. If most of the people in the U.S. are unhappy with the way Bush has run things, why would we vote for pretty much a carbon copy?

1. Short memories.
2. Republicans always vote republican. A lot of people who vote for democrats when they're pissed off don't vote most of the time.
3. McCain is generally more of a bad ass than Obama.
4. He has a good potential to come across as charismatic. So does Obama, but it's a little more surprising that Obama pulls it off, so let's see how that works out.
5. Ballot manipulation.

[01intp]

Eh, as a filthy immigrant of a post-communist nation, I don't have any voting rights in this country.
But I definitely wouldn't vote Republican.
Or Democrat.
The whole two party thing, it's a flawed system.

However, dune buggies with machine guns are unquestionably cool, especially in a post-apocalyptic future.

Oh, and what's with McCan being labeled as some sort of war hero?

McCain is a saggy old vagina, not a fucking war hero.
He was a fighter pilot who was shitty enough to get shot down.
You know what real fucking war heros did in WW2 when they got shot up and their plane was going down? They aimed it at the nearest concentration of enemy combatants and went out in a fireball of destruction.
THAT'S a war hero.
McCain's pampered little ass got captured alive, and spent his time in captivity reciting lines the Viet Cong gave him against America.
Sure he was tortured to make him do it - but once again, not all the POW's who were tortured sang like little canaries against their side. Some died with honor - those deserve the title of war hero.

McCain deserves a swift kick in the nuts for putting on a 'tough guy' act when he's anything but.

[Shoot!]

...war heroes..

For a soldier to be a war hero they must die? What about Alvin C. York?

[01intp]

For a soldier to be a war hero they must die? What about Alvin C. York?

Umm, this is like comparing polished platnimum to a decomposing pile of pig feces.

York single handedly captured a machine gun nest with 32 MACHINEGUNS that had killed half his men and pinned the rest.

McCain did bombing runs of villages and jungles from an advanced fighter-bomber jet. His 'enemy' was a largely rural population of rice farmers armed with a lot of guts and some imported Soviet handheld weaponry. Amongst his 'achievements' might have been killing a bunch of kids and civilians then flying back to base to drink shitty beer and yell 'hoo-ah!' at his fellow airmen.
That's not even mentioning him deriding all that he claims to have fought for as soon as he was captured.

York = hero.

McCain = cowardly sagging vagina.

[C.J.Woolf]

For what it's worth: At the time, Route Package 6 (the Hanoi-Haiphong area) was the deadliest airspace in the world. The SA-2 SAMs got you high, the plentiful light and medium anti-aircraft artillery (much of it radar-controlled) got you low, and the MiGs stalked you too. While the missions McCain and other US pilots flew were mostly pointless, they were certainly hazardous.

And now, a "do as I say, not as I do" message to everyone else: Please don't feed the troll. ;)

[walfin]

Finally! A non-dynastic candidate for the presidency.
Why should the Clinton dynasty be brought back to power just because they have a woman fronting it?
If either of George Bush's daughters were to run for the presidency n suggest invading some other country, nobody should vote for them either.
Though to be fair to Hillary, she is a little different from Bill.
Vice-presidency could teach her a thing or 2.

[Limey]

The constitution of the United States is just a god damned piece of paper.
No royalty signed this "declaration" into law.

If the "founding fathers" didn't want dynasties, then who cares! They were just a bunch of wig/powder wearing, wooden tooth having yankee doodle dandys.

//was that convincing?
///too much chum?

[angelique]

He's older than your generation.

He's older but I consider him as part of my generation. Like I consider you part of my generation ;)

[angelique]

McCain is a saggy old vagina, not a fucking war hero.
He was a fighter pilot who was shitty enough to get shot down.
You know what real fucking war heros did in WW2 when they got shot up and their plane was going down? They aimed it at the nearest concentration of enemy combatants and went out in a fireball of destruction.
THAT'S a war hero.
McCain's pampered little ass got captured alive, and spent his time in captivity reciting lines the Viet Cong gave him against America.
Sure he was tortured to make him do it - but once again, not all the POW's who were tortured sang like little canaries against their side. Some died with honor - those deserve the title of war hero.

McCain deserves a swift kick in the nuts for putting on a 'tough guy' act when he's anything but.

I respect men who were in the military. However, that alone shouldn't be the only determining factor in whether or not that would make him the best Presidential candidate.

[Shoot!]

I respect men who were in the military. However, that alone shouldn't be the only determining factor in whether or not that would make him the best Presidential candidate.

Agreed. It's definately a plus but it's not really a key factor in selecting who I would vote for.

[kuranes]

Agreed. It's also been said that he might even pick a Republican, like Hagel.

Finalists ? - Jack Reed and Chuck Hagel to accompany Obama on a trip encompassing Europe and Iraq...
http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/

[NightCrawler]

What has Obama done that makes him qualified?

Before he was going for Pres, he was in the Senate... for... what, less than 7 months?

[msg_v2]

He was elected in 2004. And he'd been in elected office in Illinois before that (not sure if it was state or municipal, though.) I'm hardly a believer in the orgasmic "Obama revolution" like so many people I know are, but the thing about him "lacking experience" is kinda bullshit. Most of our recent presidents haven't even been congresspeople, but governors. They've probably had less foreign police and federal government experience when they were inaugurated than Obama has. Besides, if it's a system that can give us things like Iraq and Vietnam, I'm not sure how good it is that someone is "experienced" with it anyway.

Obama is a very charismatic speaker, and I expect he'd at least make a competent President, but I really don't see him as some sort of revolutionary bringing about a utopian future, the way many people seem to. Maybe if this was 2004, I'd be lining up behind him, but it's not. I'm a different person now. I no longer feel a need to be loyal to the Democratic party. Shouldn't they be loyal to me, not the other way around? I'm voting for a third party unless I see very strong evidence otherwise. (I doubt that will happen)

[C.J.Woolf]

Obama was in the Illinois state Senate before being elected to the US Senate. His political experience most closely parallels John F. Kennedy. He too was a first-term Senator and was accused of being too inexperienced for the job of President.

The truth is, no US president comes to the job with all the relevant experience because there is no single job that exercises all the skills involved. State governor is the closest because it's an executive office, but there is no foreign policy or command of armed forces involved.