Hearing Music

[Johnny]

Speaking of viola players, I was having a conversation with the Principal Violist in our local symphony about bowings, dynamics, phrasing, breathing while playing, and so on.

He revealed to me that he thinks about music often in pictures and symbols. I was blown away. It didn't occur to me that music would be anything but heard at the time. Later, I listen to an NPR segment on how the brain can get "crosswired" in parts where color, sound, and pictures are distinguished, and how such an anomaly might possibly explain such things as perfect pitch.

Myself, I couldn't explain what goes on in my brain at all. I just know without knowing why or being able to say how that I have a good ear for intonation and music, I can hear the different tones made by instruments throughout their range, and I know rhythm. I've loved it my whole life and both play instruments and sing. The best I could say is that when I'm doing it, everything else around me and on my mind disappears and does not return until I stop.

What do you hear and/or see? :D

[paladinoflunaria]

That's a very interesting subject, actually. I've always had the same kind of talent. I have a very good ear for music, and I can play a song I have just heard, as long as I have the dexterity. I'm not sure why either, though. I do like to listen to music that I can create images and words with, and that's why I like music without lyrics (I don't come up with lyrics, just words that associate with the music) and why I don't really like music videos. I don't think use that imagery when I play, but I've never really payed attention to it.

[Johnny]

Yeah, I know what you mean. It took me a long time to even find out people were trying to say something when they sang lyrics to songs. :blink: :lol:

[Melody]

Actually, that perfect pitch thing is what I was meaning with Chinese people. They can perceive it because of the nature of their language.

Symbols are pervasive in many things. They are representations designed for functional efficiency. I can remember Eminem's albums verbatim, maybe because of my language skills. It is not difficult to me because my symbolic system for language is efficient and powerful, just as it probably is for everyone else at these forums.

As for music-music, I cannot remember it precisely. Symbols are used. I.e. it is something like MIDI or a palette system. The composition of those symbols is not really the music itself, just a rough estimate. As time passes, the accuracy/resolution at which my mind stores these musical symbols decreases. It degrades gracefully, which is a property of neural networks.

In other words, I store the general feel of music.

Symbols vs. precise representations is something that has come to my eyes in various places recently. For example, in drawing, the usage of symbols is an impediment and is what makes people suck at art. I posted this somewhere else, but the reason is that instead of drawing what is in front of us, we draw the symbol that is in our head. This symbol is a barebones representation and is nothing like what is in front of us, so our drawings end up looking stupid.

In writing, if you are not aware, you will start using verbal symbols to shape your idea, instead of using them to explain it.

In language and logic, symbols are powerful. In creative writing and art, they impede. In music...well, I liken music to art, and in my opinion, if you are a musician, you should be able to remember music symbolically for efficiency and perception of "mood," "atmosphere," etc. and precisely for creative ability (i.e. in stead of saying, "I want a song that sounds kinda like this," you should be able to say, "I want a song that sounds precisely like this.")

[int]

There used to be a course you could mail order that taught how to see different pitches in different colors.

I have it to a certian extent...I can get the 'G' string on my bass to within a few cents. I visualize the note as I remember playing it once in the studio 10 years ago...I don't know why the image is there, but it works.

[file cabinet]

am I only who snaps my fingers to music but doesn't do it to any particular beat?

[int]

Nope. I make up rhythms that "should have been recorded with the song" all the time.

[Johnny]

I'm playing the doublebass right now and have been studying it for a couple of years. I've been working on hearing the note I want to play before I play it in my mind (on advice from my teacher), but it's not my normal way of playing or singing. For the longest time, I've just been doing it as the Nike slogan suggests.

For my first lesson, he had me sing and count the beats out loud as I was playing the bass. It wasn't a problem, as I knew what the pitches were and knew how to read music, but it was an unusual experience. Still, I wasn't visualizing anything. Maybe the best way I can describe it is in the manner that The Inner Game of Tennis describes - just letting yourself focus entirely on the ball and trusting your mind and body to do what it knows needs to be done.

Well, maybe that's not right. I'm just now developing the habit of conscious focus on the pitch in time, and how I want to express it with the bow and left-hand.

[Sugaraddict2702]

He revealed to me that he thinks about music often in pictures and symbols.

What do you hear and/or see? :D

What I always try to do is try to find the 'musical story'. I try to visualize whatever i'm hearing and/or playing. Sometimes, it are colours, but most of the time I see a movie playing in my head. I see leaves getting blown away on a soft breeze, water dripping from a tree, an couple just staring at the sea, an army marching,...
What is really cool about music with two melody lines in it, is that I can see both lines intertwining with eachother, I can see them racing and battling eachother. (Bach's Toccata and Fugue is the perfect example!)

Ellen*

[Crazy]

He revealed to me that he thinks about music often in pictures and symbols.

What do you hear and/or see? :D

What I always try to do is try to find the 'musical story'. I try to visualize whatever i'm hearing and/or playing. Sometimes, it are colours, but most of the time I see a movie playing in my head. I see leaves getting blown away on a soft breeze, water dripping from a tree, an couple just staring at the sea, an army marching,...
What is really cool about music with two melody lines in it, is that I can see both lines intertwining with eachother, I can see them racing and battling eachother. (Bach's Toccata and Fugue is the perfect example!)

Ellen*

I know exactly what you mean

[Johnny]

what is really cool about music with two melody lines in it, is that I can see both lines intertwining with eachother, I can see them racing and battling eachother. (Bach's Toccata and Fugue is the perfect example!)

Ellen*


I know exactly what you mean

That sounds very neat to have music offer such pictures for your mind to see.

When I had begun working on the bass parts for the 4th mvmt. of Beethoven's 9th symphony last year, my teacher told me that there was a story being told - that a struggle for the perfect melody was being expressed in the music. I already liked the 9th and didn't need this explanation to support my interest to learn it, but that it is also the means by which Beethoven tells a good story still awes me.

To enjoy music so much, and then to find out that there is so much more to learn and enjoy about it, is very nice. :D

I guess such things could also be said of poetry, dance, art, and so on...

[Sugaraddict2702]

That sounds very neat to have music offer such pictures for your mind to see.

When I had begun working on the bass parts for the 4th mvmt. of Beethoven's 9th symphony last year, my teacher told me that there was a story being told - that a struggle for the perfect melody was being expressed in the music. I already liked the 9th and didn't need this explanation to support my interest to learn it, but that it is also the means by which Beethoven tells a good story still awes me.

To enjoy music so much, and then to find out that there is so much more to learn and enjoy about it, is very nice. :D

I guess such things could also be said of poetry, dance, art, and so on...

nothing to add, you just said it all :D
and Ode an die Freude is indeed a very nice piece! especially with a huge choir! then I can feel the sensations running to my fingertips!

Ellen*

[Johnny]

I saw a performance of Beethoven's Missa Solemnis for the first time a couple of months ago. The choir sings throughout the work, unlike the 9th; but as is typical of Beethoven, the choir is allowed to come into the first mvmt. like an unexpected avalanche.

[Sugaraddict2702]

a little while ago we tried a piece by Beethoven with our string quartet, and I was amazed at how "modern" he composed! I'm no good at music terms in english, but he mixed rhythms in such a way I would have sworn it was written in the 20th century. I just liked him way better since then :)

Ellen*

[Johnny]

Which piece?

[Sugaraddict2702]

Which piece?

Cavatine, but I can't seem to find more information on it.

Ellen*