CNN: Black in America

[Ada_Lovelace]

I am wondering if anyone else watched the CNN special report "Black in America" this past week?

If so...

What statistic/fact most stood out for you?

Did you learn anything surprising or new from the report?

Did you learn to appreciate any aspects of Black culture which you didn't fully appreciate prior to seeing the report? (good and bad)

Did the report help you to better understand the realities of what it's like to be Black in America in 2008?

If you have older children: did you watch the CNN special "Black in America" with your children, and if so, what were their reactions?

Were you challenged to look at how you perceive yourself (if you happen to be a Black American) or Black Americans (if you happen to be anything other than a Black American)?

Was your overall response to the special "hopeful about the future of Blacks in America" or "fearful about the future of Blacks in America"?

(Feel free to respond to any or all of these questions, and/or propose your own questions and responses.)


++++++

Because I have quite a few comments, I would like to give others the chance to contribute something to the discussion prior to posting my own rants and raves...

:reading:


[ Edit: Go to Post #48 (http://forums.intpcentral.com/showpost.php?p=907513&postcount=48) for a summary of stats presented in the Special Report]

[pan_sonic_000]

Yeah.

I agree with Booker T. Washington:

"There is a class of colored people who make a business of keeping the troubles, the wrongs and the hardships of the Negro race before the public. Having learned that they are able to make a living out of their troubles, they have grown into the settled habit of advertising their wrongs -- partly because they want sympathy and partly because it pays. Some of these people do not want the Negro to lose his grievances, because they do not want to lose their jobs."

[Oso Mocoso]

Black in America Part One

Black in America Part Two

Just in case people haven't seen it. There are other related videos, interviews and such if you click through to youtube.com

Edit: Just finished watching the whole thing. It's basically nothing that's news to me. I live right now in a really racially divided city. Basically, the neighborhood I live in is heavily white, Jewish and Asian. If you go a few blocks, most people are Indian/Middle Eastern, and beyond that is a black neighborhood. The differences are pretty pronounced.

Now, I am kind of a racist. One time I told that to a black friend of mine, and he said he disagreed with me. I get along well with him and a few other black people. I'm also in an interracial marriage. He told me that to him, I don't seem racist at all. But ... here's the thing. For me, racism isn't about conscious decisions. Racism doesn't just mean who I'll hang out with. It's all about snap judgments you make without even thinking about it.

For example, yesterday I was out hiking around in a local park, and I stayed out too late. By the time I was heading home, it was dark. I passed some kids on the street. They were a bunch of Indian kids wearing backpacks. Their presence didn't make me nervous at all. Most of the Indian people I know around the area are nerds like me. Then, I passed two black teenagers waiting for a bus. They made me feel nervous as I passed them. Could they have been honor roll students? I have no idea. But without even thinking about it, my brain flagged them as people to watch out for. The Indians were "like me".

In my defense, this is mostly something that goes on in my head in the U.S. When I was living in the Caribbean, my instinctive attitude towards people was just to automatically trust everyone without skin color being a factor at all.

[Ada_Lovelace]

Yeah.

I agree with Booker T. Washington:

"There is a class of colored people who make a business of keeping the troubles, the wrongs and the hardships of the Negro race before the public. Having learned that they are able to make a living out of their troubles, they have grown into the settled habit of advertising their wrongs -- partly because they want sympathy and partly because it pays. Some of these people do not want the Negro to lose his grievances, because they do not want to lose their jobs."

Interesting quote. I googled it to verify it's legitimacy - it appears to be an accurate quote attributable to Booker T. Washington. Although it should be noted, by use of the word "class" Booker T. Washington was referencing certain black leaders of his time - ALL of whom are more than likely deceased today, considering Booker T. Washington himself died in 1915.

I also found that this quote is most often used as trolling material on numerous websites by conservatives and racists opposed to Obama's bid for Presidency.

You may also want to consider these quotes from Booker T. Washington:


"I have learned that success is to be measured not so much by the position that one has reached in life as by the obstacles which he has overcome while trying to succeed. Out of the hard and unusual struggle through which he is compelled to pass, he gets a strength, a confidence, that one misses whose pathway is comparatively smooth by reason of birth and race.
~Booker T. Washington (April 5, 1856 - November 14, 1915)

Note: I see this as a very pragmatic outlook on life for Black Americans during Booker T. Washington's lifetime, when the very thought of a black American reaching positions in life which many Black Americans have attained in 2008 was, I daresay, unfathomable.


"Few things can help an individual more than to place responsibility on him, and to let him know that you trust him."
~Booker T. Washington

Question: When it is easier for a white man with a felony to get a job, than it is for a black man with a clean record to get a job, as is the case in America today (this statistic was in the CNN report) - how many black men in America today are STILL being denied the opportunity to be a position of responsibility, or to be trusted, due to prejudices?

I think it is still fair to say, for the average black man to be successful in America today, he has to overcome far more obstacles than the average white man. There is still a very real disparity in realities caused by nothing more than the fact one man was born with black skin and another was born with white skin... as the concluding interview in the CNN special tried to illustrate, there is even a disparity amongst black Americans depending on how light or dark their skin happens to be.



+++++++

pan_sonic_000: the question I have for you is this:

Did you watch the CNN special report "Black in America"?

I purposely worded the OP to be a call for responses to the CNN special "Black in America" - - the OP was not intended to be an invitation for troll-like posts. Posting a quote from someone who has been deceased for nearly 100 years is hardly germane to the discussion of "Blacks in America" in the year 2008.

You could perhaps try to make it germane to today's discussion by trying to tie the Booker T. Washington's quote to the likes of Jesse Jackson, although I personally don't believe Jesse Jackson holds much cred amongst many Black Americans - at least not from what my husband (a Black American) tells me... [edit: also, I don't know if Jesse Jackson was even mentioned in the CNN special report - if he was, I missed it.]

[kuranes]

I would have liked to see it, but every time I saw it being announced, I would get disappointed as I focused, because it always turned out that it was still a week or two away from actually airing. I guess I missed it when it finally showed. Maybe they'll show it again.

[Ada_Lovelace]

I would have liked to see it, but every time I saw it being announced, I would get disappointed as I focused, because it always turned out that it was still a week or two away from actually airing. I guess I missed it when it finally showed. Maybe they'll show it again.

CNN has been rebroadcasting this report repeatedly all weekend, I think it's likely they will continue rebroadcasting it for the next week or two... check your cable schedule and the CNN website. We have it saved on the DVR at our house, so I don't know when exactly it's showing...

Also, as Oso showed us, many clips from the special are available on YouTube. I think I'll put together a summary of the special, especially some of the stats mentioned, to be posted in this thread... stay tuned, it won't get done yet tonight - maybe tomorrow or the next day.

[ajblaise]

I only saw the commercials for it and I was put off by the fact that the black people they showed in the commercial were barely blacker than me..and I'm white.

I hope that's not an indication of the people they are showing in the program; the light-skin good for TV "blacks" that look like they are at least half-white. If you're going to make a program about Irish people, you're not going to mostly interview half-Irish/half-African people are you?

[stopharian]

I have a few questions.

Are the 2 clips posted by Oso the entire footage of the special? I kind of asume it isnt. And Im assuming the man in the clips interjecting the commentary isnt from the special either but is some youtuber.

So maybe there is more to see.

Meanwhile.....

My heart really goes out to Vanessa Williams for the things she has to go through on a daily basis.

[Oso Mocoso]

I have a few questions.

Are the 2 clips posted by Oso the entire footage of the special? I kind of asume it isnt. And Im assuming the man in the clips interjecting the commentary isnt from the special either but is some youtuber.

No, that's not the entire special. If you click through youtube, you can get the entire thing plus commentary on it from other talking heads. But not all of it in one place.

[foodeater]

I watched one part and was surprised that things were so bad. I am from an almost entirely white city in northern Michigan (before that a suburb in Georgia until I was 9) and I didn't think things were actually getting WORSE for poor blacks. I knew it was bad, but they had a stat that said something like the unwed black mother population had grown from 25% to 75% of black mothers (Not positive and I don't remember over how many years, but it was dramatic). I need to watch it again, I wasn't paying too much attention (channel surfing at the time). I wanted to see the part where they talked about the differences and similarities between poor and middle class and up blacks but they were showing it the next night and I forgot about it.

[Ada_Lovelace]

I only saw the commercials for it and I was put off by the fact that the black people they showed in the commercial were barely blacker than me..and I'm white.

I hope that's not an indication of the people they are showing in the program; the light-skin good for TV "blacks" that look like they are at least half-white. If you're going to make a program about Irish people, you're not going to mostly interview half-Irish/half-African people are you?

The reality in America is that *all* Black Americans who can trace their heritage back to slavery very, very, very likely have some percentage of white blood running through their veins. Consequently, anyone that looks "at least half-white" is more than likely more-than-half white.

This fact, however, does not exempt anyone who is less than "all Black" from experiencing America from the perspective of a "Black American."

That being said: no, the CNN special report does not only interview, and tell the stories of, lighter-skinned black American.

The fact the reporter doing most of the interviewing [SOLEDAD O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR] is so light skinned she is barely discernible as being black [we talked about this as a family as we watched the story] is also, perhaps, germane to the larger story being told. Because it has been, and continues to be, more difficult for darker-skinned Black Americans to "make it" in America. This point is made within the CNN special report... in fact the final segment ends on this note.

Although the lighter-skinned black person has perhaps an easier time on some levels, don't think he/she escapes experiencing life as a Black American. Bi-racial blacks have their own set of problems, sometimes feeling as if they don't fit in fully with either the black or the white side. This is also discussed in the CNN special.

Middle-class and successful black Americans also have to navigate between two worlds, and often don't feel totally accepted or comfortable in either middle-class America or Black America. This is also discussed in the CNN special.

Personal Aside:
My children are half-white and half-black... which doesn't even begin to tell you their complete heritage, because they also have a substantial amount of Cherokee Indian blood running through their veins. My side of the family has been here since prior to the Revolutionary War (William Morris family of West Virginia - Daughters of the American Revolution). When I was a child my grandfather was already describing his heritage as "Heinz 57" - he was born in 1904.

My youngest daughter has silky, slightly wavy, but mostly straight, hair. She is most often mistaken for Hispanic... but if you press her to check just one box on a form - she'll tell you she is black. Her dad is black, she is black. Our children have been raised to speak proper English and to do well in school. They have been accused of being "not really black" because they don't "talk black". These same kids have also been known to break into black dialect just for the shock factor when in an all-white setting.

White people in lily-white Minnesota, where we live, often don't pick up on the features which would indicate that my children are in fact half black, so they have had to explain that the black guy who picks them up from school is actually their biological father!

OTOH, Black folks (and southerners) always seem to recognize the fact my kids are black... except the youngest, because of her hair even black kids have thought her to be Hispanic; alternatively, she's often told she looks like Hailey Berry.

[Ada_Lovelace]

For me, racism isn't about conscious decisions. Racism doesn't just mean who I'll hang out with. It's all about snap judgments you make without even thinking about it.


By that definition, no one is above racism... and I don't believe any of us are, in fact, above racism.

I told my dh (my husband happens to be black) about what you wrote... he said he didn't fault you in the least and then went on a bit of a rant:

Black teens need to stop looking to rappers such as 50cents ("who is only alive today because he got lucky by an inch when he was shot up") as their role models... :rant:

My dh went on to say he understood why the rappers featured in the CNN report changed up what they are doing in an effort to use rap to send out a positive message and he would like to see more of that within the black community.

++++++
Aside: Ada is put to the test at the YMCA

I was put to a test just last week. I had my kids at the closest YMCA to our house, which happens to be a located in "da'hood"...

Four black teens were sitting in the lobby, I sort of knew one of the teens from when we lived in that neighborhood earlier this year.

Eventually the boys asked me if they could purchase some guest passes from my membership. They had pooled their money and had enough to pay 3.50 each, but daily passes for the YMCA cost 5.00... so they didn't have enough money to get all four of them inside the Y's facilities.

I was feeling generous, so I told I'd give them four guest passes, no charge, (we get about 16 annually with our family membership) and I proceeded to go to the front desk to give them my membership card and arrange for the guest passes.

The Y staff person behind the counter said to me "You do realize you are responsible for these boys. If they do enough damage, you could potentially lose your membership and be held liable for charges."

I have to admit - I hesitated for a few seconds.... in fact, I am sure I hesitated for a longer period because here I was about to place blind trust in four black teen boys from da' hood.

I suddenly realized the message I would be sending these kids if I changed my mind at this point, and decided to not allow them access to the Y that evening under my membership, because I didn't trust them, would be absolutely devastating...

So, after hesitating for a moment, I told the Y staff person that I understood the liability involved, but I had faith these kids wouldn't cause any problems ... and they didn't.

The boys shot hoops for a couple of hours and then went swimming... they kept insisting on giving me some money for the guest passes, so I let them buy me a soda from the vending machines. They tripped over themselves thanking me... I felt ashamed for hesitating even as long as I hesitated; and I am sure it was plenty long enough for the boys to notice.

I made what proved to be the right decision, but I did hesitate - that fact I cannot deny.

[pan_sonic_000]

pan_sonic_000: the question I have for you is this:

Did you watch the CNN special report "Black in America"?

Yes, I watched it.

I just found many presuppositions that there is a significant strike against blacks because of their skin color. While I'm sure this is true to a certain extent, I didn't find much discussion regarding the shortcomings of the black community at large and how many of their public figures are undermining the solidarity they seek to achieve by promoting a divisive culture. That, too, is part of being black in America. I give big kudos to those who mentioned a lack of father figures and the breakdown of the family unit as that seems to be one step closer to taking responsibility in the one area it's most needed: with the individual.


Racial tensions certainly still exist between whites and blacks. As a white male, I find myself angered by the blatant hypocrisy, finger pointing and lack of common sense amongst the black community. People like 50 cent are idolized and worshiped for rapping this:


If there's beef, cock it and dump it, the drama really means nothin
Cause me, I ride by and blow your brains out(brains out)
There's no time to cock it, one way you can stop it
When niggas run up on you wit them thangs out (thangs out)
I do what I gotta do I don't care I if get caught
The DA can play this motherfuckin tape in court
I'll kill you - I ain't playin, hear what I'm sayin, homie I ain't playin
Catch you slippin, I'ma kill you - I ain't playin, hear what I'm sayin,
homie I ain't playin

Keep thinkin I'm candy till ya fuckin skull get popped
And ya brain right out the top like Jack-in-da-box
In the hood summer time is the killing season
It's hot out this bitch that's a good 'nuff reason
I've seen gangsta's get religious when they start bleedin
Sayin "Lord, Jesus Help Me" cause they ass leakin

I mean, this is a black man who promotes violence and murder of other blacks without any remorse. As far as I'm concerned, until the black community can develop a modicum of common sense or honesty regarding something as obviously destructive as that, I have little time to concern myself with whatever other issues they might be facing.

As long as they choose to endorse (and even celebrate) criminals and sociopathic monsters, I feel justified in my racism and, I suspect, many other white people do as well.

Funny thing is, I will actually get more brainwashed guilt-stricken whites jumping down my throat for this than I will blacks. My ex-girlfriend was black and said the exact same things I'm saying above. The rest of her family did as well. But the suburban whites who've bought into the white-guilt media lie are the ones who are most reluctant to even suggest blacks might be responsible for their own problems. They like to tell me I'm racist as if it's the ultimate moral insult for which their can be no justification. I just shrug and admit that, yes, I am racist and, yes, I am okay with it. I don't think I'm immoral person for avoiding south east D.C. at 2am because I know my risk is greater for being white.

[PonderBee]

Yes, I watched it.

I just found many presuppositions that there is a significant strike against blacks because of their skin color. While I'm sure this is true to a certain extent, I didn't find much discussion regarding the shortcomings of the black community at large and how many of their public figures are undermining the solidarity they seek to achieve by promoting a divisive culture. That, too, is part of being black in America.

Didn't watch it because the above description is exactly what I expected. I'm full up on the blame game and hypocrisy.


Funny thing is, I will actually get more brainwashed guilt-stricken whites jumping down my throat for this than I will blacks. My ex-girlfriend was black and said the exact same things I'm saying above. The rest of her family did as well. But the suburban whites who've bought into the white-guilt media lie are the ones who are most reluctant to even suggest blacks might be responsible for their own problems. They like to tell me I'm racist as if it's the ultimate moral insult for which their can be no justification. I just shrug and admit that, yes, I am racist and, yes, I am okay with it. I don't think I'm immoral person for avoiding south east D.C. at 2am because I know my risk is greater for being white.

Not immoral - just open and honest. You're supposed to parrot the company line. The white guilt commandos all avoid south east D.C. 24/7 - they're just not talking about it.

Such people, so paranoid that their deeply rooted racism will show at the seams, are impossible to deal with. They delude themselves into believing that they are the flag-bearer for equality and do far greater damage all around than an in your face racist or an ignoramus.

[zero]

Damn...ok I can't speak for the entire black community...but rap is no longer the means by which we get the message out. It has now become a corporate whore putting out to anyone with some kind of cash.

I usually can't bring myself to watch these sort of shows. Because I know that CNN and other channels mean well I feel that I never hear my voice. I'm never represented. I have this skin color but I can't relate. *this said in my most pretentious and hateful tone* I'm black. *check* I grew up in the ghetto. *check* My father wasn't around. *check*

I don't like that my culture is inherently self-destructive. I hate that most blacks need someone to follow so badly that a guy with gold fronts seems like the most logical choice. And I hate that much of the media, blacks, and others find it so lucrative to cash in on it.

Honestly, growing up in a culture that doesn't preserve individuality, free thinking and education was hell. I'm so glad I had TV to raise me. You know, when I was 7 I heard someone say "ask" instead of "axe" and was surprised. Education where i grew up is not seen as way out. I was surprised when I went to high school and many of the girls were going to beauty school.

It may be difficult to grasp but much of what is seen from TV and rap music isn't always from the minds of blacks and/or isn't a total product of blacks. I just want that to be kept in mind.

Let's talk about individuality. Blacks have a sense of community that is endearing and I love how good it looks on paper but it just isn't working. Blacks have a "if one of us screws up..we all screw up" attitude. It isn't good. We're made to fit in with each other and anyone who thinks differently or doesn't quite fit into the herd is usually "corrected".

But ok, let me ask you where do you think this comes from? Is there a point in history that maybe could have created such a subservient and ignorant culture? Are people inside and outside this culture profiting from it? And just because you're white does it make it your responsibility to help?


apologies: this was becoming a rant so I'll stop here

[Sekhmet]

Well, you guys are all inspring me to watch this. I'll see if I can record a re-showing of it (I like to watch TV on my TV and not my computer, I'm old school)...

Ada - loved the aside YMCA story, don't guilt yourself and way to do something inspiring for young people.

Pan_sonic - I agree that guilt isn't helping the issue on any side here.
I also agree that the rap/hip hop culture can be promoting abominable things.
However, its sort of like saying Caroll O Connor made white people all look bad/racist or that listening to Marilyn Manson made the kids at Columbine go shoot other kids.
The fact is people are a spectrum.
I take hip hop (dance) class and my teacher is the leader of a local hip hop dance group. They are all adults and they perform all over, and they are even part of the local D.A.R.E program. They have a really cool interpretive piece about two brothers, and one gets into drugs and dies and the other gets out... Anyway the point is it is rather inspirational. It's a multi-cultural group and I think its really cool. (I wish I were a good enough dancer to join!)

In general -
I think there is obviously still racism in America. I kind of cannot believe we as a culture are not over it yet!
However, the only thing you as an individual can do is to try and be fair.
- more later after I watch the show...

My question for the group - what do you do when you see or hear racism happening? Have you ever allowed it to go on? Do you speak up? Are some people lost causes?

[iceberg]

I feel as though Black people are like animals bred in captivity and released into the wild by animal rights activists. They don't know what to do in societies natural habitats. They were bred to be beasts of burden(ie. physically strong, ignorant, controllable, and exploitable). They no longer have cultural pillars, moral standards, or a way of life that they might of had if they were allowed to pass down their history and culture once enslaved. The only way of life they from being free was to be a slave not how to function as a society or in society.

It doesn't help that social practices and laws limited their rights. But everything their values are based on are slave mentatallities(ie. physically strong, ignorant, controllable, and exploitable) or religion. It no small wonder they are dysfunctional today with a foundation like that.

On another note, "The Law of Attraction", if black people listen to music about gang violence, degrading women, poverty, and vanity, isn't that what they'll bring into their lives?

I believe it isn't black people's fault historically why they are like they are today but it is their problem and they are the only ones who can fix it. They are also the ones who now are making it worse.

[pan_sonic_000]

Well, my point isn't that it's rap musics fault. My point is that, often times, the black community doesn't take responsibility for the obviously detrimental effects of it (and other cultural beliefs and thinking that erode black communities) and, instead, will accuse whites and government for what's occurring.

Some of the blame-game arguments I've heard from black leaders sound like paranoid conspiracy theories. Like the media, government and white people everywhere have a tacit understanding that we'll all work together to wipe out black communities across America.

I will go so far as to say there's apathy from whites towards the problems plaguing the black community (I consider myself part of this) but, again, I think it's because whites feel as though blacks won't even acknowledge their own investment in these problems. In short, it seems as though many blacks want a free pass to do as they please and, ultimately, have white people take the responsibility and blame for it. The end result, I believe, is a slowly broiling resentment in white people over the hypocrisy of it.

One often used example is the question of "how come blacks call each other niggas but white people can't?" It's angering to know I can be vilified, lose my job, and even physically assaulted just for the mere accusation that I called a black man something that he calls himself and others on a daily basis. It's angering to have to spend my time in "sensitivity training classes" to be told not to do something I already don't do towards a group of people who are, in fact, doing that very thing to themselves.

This kind of hypocritical nonsense is hurting the black community in the long run because it's creating apathy and resentment towards them by those who are willing to help.

In the YouTube videos that were posted here, there was some added commentary that wasn't on the CNN special. You have this guy throwing out statistics about how there's only 1 black dollar for every 11 white dollars. But there's no further explanation for this or any exploration as to why or how to fix it. He then goes on to say it's fine for whites to have wealth but not "at the inordinate expense against blacks". The message seems implicit but clear: blacks don't have as much as whites simply because they're black and, thus, get shortchanged so whites can get the lions share. This doesn't solve anything but to create more divisiveness between the two races and to pass the blame off onto some mysterious white-agenda bogeyman. The axioms and presuppositions seem extremely skewed and, frankly, downright toxic to the mindset of any black person looking to overcome these problems with any degree of long term success.

[Ada_Lovelace]

Didn't watch it because the above description is exactly what I expected. I'm full up on the blame game and hypocrisy.


The CNN Special Report presented a picture which is far more complex and nuanced than some of the comments in this thread may lead you to believe.


Damn...ok I can't speak for the entire black community...but rap is no longer the means by which we get the message out. It has now become a corporate whore putting out to anyone with some kind of cash.

I usually can't bring myself to watch these sort of shows. Because I know that CNN and other channels mean well I feel that I never hear my voice. I'm never represented. I have this skin color but I can't relate. *this said in my most pretentious and hateful tone* I'm black. *check* I grew up in the ghetto. *check* My father wasn't around. *check*

I don't like that my culture is inherently self-destructive. I hate that most blacks need someone to follow so badly that a guy with gold fronts seems like the most logical choice. And I hate that much of the media, blacks, and others find it so lucrative to cash in on it.

Honestly, growing up in a culture that doesn't preserve individuality, free thinking and education was hell. I'm so glad I had TV to raise me. You know, when I was 7 I heard someone say "ask" instead of "axe" and was surprised. Education where i grew up is not seen as way out. I was surprised when I went to high school and many of the girls were going to beauty school.

It may be difficult to grasp but much of what is seen from TV and rap music isn't always from the minds of blacks and/or isn't a total product of blacks. I just want that to be kept in mind.

Let's talk about individuality. Blacks have a sense of community that is endearing and I love how good it looks on paper but it just isn't working. Blacks have a "if one of us screws up..we all screw up" attitude. It isn't good. We're made to fit in with each other and anyone who thinks differently or doesn't quite fit into the herd is usually "corrected".

But ok, let me ask you where do you think this comes from? Is there a point in history that maybe could have created such a subservient and ignorant culture? Are people inside and outside this culture profiting from it? And just because you're white does it make it your responsibility to help?

apologies: this was becoming a rant so I'll stop here

No apologies necessary - please rant on...

I am running all the posts in this thread past my husband, to get his input as a 43-yr-old black man... but he, like you, is also just one black man, and cannot speak for the entire black community.

[Edit: But what exactly is "the black community?" I think this CNN report showed that there is a lot of diversity within the black community, economic and otherwise. Middle-class blacks often don't have a lot in common with inner-city blacks from the ghetto.]

In our household the CNN special spawned a lot of really good discussions. After watching both segments, my husband said the net result left him feeling good about being black and hopeful about his future.

But at the same time, I can tell that the CNN report also rattled him... as someone else in this thread suggested, the stats about just how much worse certain segments of the black community is doing were staggering.

In the past week he has gone on more rants about black culture than I have seen him express verbally the entire time we have been together (18 years.)

I actually believe something deep down within my husband is being stirred up by this CNN report... perhaps he is being called to be a positive role model within the black community. He's talked about hearing this calling previously...

We've actually already been making changes in our family life to more closely align ourselves to be in a position to get involved in the lives of inner-city youth, and to hopefully make a difference in a few of the lives our lives intersect with...

The rap culture, it's origins and where it is now (in the hands of corporate whores) was discussed in the CNN special. There are rappers who write and produce music with positive, affirming messages... but of course, they are not the ones getting the record contracts.

Interestingly enough, the majority of buyers of rap & hip-hop music are white consumers. :banghead:

[pangolin]

I didn't see the CNN special, but I watched the posted youtube bits. I have to say that a lot of the issue with 'race' isn't so much with actual physical features (at least not for me) but with culture, and this applies to more than just 'black' culture, though in the specific context of 'black' culture in the US there are very persistent memes that have developed to hold black people as distinct from mainstream culture, many of which are simply contrarian, and ultimately to the detriment of participants in that culture. Some of these are relational, such as its own hypocritical racism (which seems often curiously present in traditional cultures that want you to 'accept' them). Others are absolute, such as anti-intellectualism ('white' people value education, and they suck, so it must suck?) and promotion of violence and gang activity (not that those aren't present elsewhere as well).

Obviously people have individual differences and different genetic and cultural backgrounds, but as long as you talk about 'black' people or 'white' people, as the commentator frequently did, instead of just people, you're never going to solve anything.

[nittanylion302]

One often used example is the question of "how come blacks call each other niggas but white people can't?" It's angering to know I can be vilified, lose my job, and even physically assaulted just for the mere accusation that I called a black man something that he calls himself and others on a daily basis. It's angering to have to spend my time in "sensitivity training classes" to be told not to do something I already don't do towards a group of people who are, in fact, doing that very thing to themselves.


This argument is tired. It's a familial thing. I call my brother a shithead and an asshole in a manner I'd never use with a stranger. Thus, the N word is held in similar regard by the african american community.

[zero]

Ada your husband should be stirred. It's only natural.

Many say that the black community doesn't take responsibility. Let me tell you that it only seems that way. Also, the community as a whole lacks the ability to take responsibility in a way that's actually constructive but are willing (not as able) to do so.

On the word "nigga". why do you want to use it anyway? DC blacks (Yes there's a difference. Blacks are not the same everywhere.) think of the word as degrading and unbearable. Most don't allow themselves to be referred as such even if it's used in a non-negative way.

FYI, the use of the word was originally a very a hateful and oppressing word to many blacks. The problem, is that the use of the word in order to show comradeship and strength is not accepted by all blacks and therefor there are mixed feelings when whites use it. but that's besides the point...why would you want to use it? I CAN say that in hearing the word coming from a white person I never felt obligated to correct in any way. The word has lost all it's malice to me which I think is a good thing. It never held power over me like it did my father and those who came before me.

Also I would like to ask again...are there people outside and inside this race exploiting it? If so wouldn't it be understandable to be a little paranoid?

I think in some parts we're looking at the cause or the effect but not the why or how. Then maybe we can see the logic of it or the lack there of.

Now i do agree with the opinion that it's up to blacks but something doesn't just sit right when I hear(read) some things about a culture that is completely misrepresented in so many areas. I am not the special individual that sticks out...there are more. I argue that we are misrepresented not only by others but ourselves as well.

oh and yes it's true. In the culture that has been grown from slavery where many blacks were bred to be strong, fast, and ignorant.....blacks often mistake these for virtues.....

[pan_sonic_000]

It also seems to be that racial stances from blacks to whites are nothing compared to the attitudes blacks have towards each other. The former may be self-deceptive and hypocritical, but the later is downright ruthless.

The amount of crap my ex girlfriend (black woman) had to put up with for dating me (white man) was unreal. People in her own family used to ask her: "why are you dating a white guy? Are you a nigger or a traitor?". With that kind of false dichotomy, it's no wonder so many black kids have shaky identities or are distrusting of whites without knowing why.

When black guys would hit on her and she'd reject their advances, they accused her of thinking she was "too good for a brother".

She also had a masters degree and spoke very articulately. This, of course, meant she was "acting white" and, also, a G.D.I ("goddamn individual").

[Ada_Lovelace]

Um, cause it's a joke...?

[Note: this is quote and my response were made in response to a part of this thread which has been split off and sent to Purgatory, but I'll leave my response here because I think it provides a little insight into the economic/educational/digital divide in America today.]

Not a very good one...

from what I have seen first-hand in the inner-city, there is a major digital-divide going on between the middle-class and the poverty class.

I have helped quite a few inner-city families with their computers in the past couple of years - it's become my way of trying to part of the solution rather than part of the problem.

I have to say, I've seen far less pirated music on the computers owned by inner-city black families than I've seen on computers I've worked on from suburban middle-class white families.

The number of computers per family member and per household if far, far lower within the inner-city black community. The level of technical knowledge is likewise far, far lower within the inner-city black community.

NOTE: I am talking about inner-city black culture, which is more accurately described as the generational-poverty class...


The amount of crap my ex girlfriend (black woman) had to put up with for dating me (white man) was unreal. People in her own family used to ask her: "why are you dating a white guy? Are you a nigger or a traitor?". With that kind of false dichotomy, it's no wonder so many black kids have shaky identities or are distrusting of whites without knowing why

My brother-in-law, black, refused to come to our wedding because my husband was marrying a white girl. None of my family members refused to attend our wedding because I was marrying a black man.

My brother-in-law grew up in a segregated south - in a poor, all-black neighborhood. His younger brother, my husband, grew up in a much different environment - by the time my husband was 9 years old the family had purchased a house in a middle-class, mostly white, neighborhood.

Three of the four brothers in my husband's family now have college degrees and are living middle-class lives. All three brothers are married to the mothers of their children. Two of the brothers married outside their race.

[nittanylion302]

This is a really good article on the subject I read a while ago
http://www.esquire.com/features/ESQ1206BLACKESSAY_108

Two really good quotes from it:


So I say this: It's time for ascended blacks to wish n---rs good luck. Just as whites may be concerned with the good of all citizens but don't travel their days worrying specifically about the well-being of hillbillies from Appalachia, we need to send n-----s on their way. We need to start extolling the most virtuous of ourselves. It is time to celebrate the New Black Americans--those who have sealed the Deal, who aren't beholden to liberal indulgence any more than they are to the disdain of the hard Right.



After the certification of Bush's election, Dr. Condi got herself easily appointed as national-security advisor.

Firsts all the way around.

Black America should have been singing hosannas.

But Condi was Republican. So never mind. Never mind she'd spent a lifetime facing down racism. Born in Birmingham at the peak of race hate, Condi was a schoolmate of Denise McNair, one of the "four little girls" bombed to death in September of '63 at the Sixteenth Street Baptist Church. N----rs and old-school shines couldn't abide her. Same as with Clarence Thomas, they let her politics obfuscate her accomplishments. They stamped her: Not Officially Black. Bloggers tagged her a "Sally Hemings for the Twenty-first Century." Left-leaning pundits smeared her with the slurs "Aunt Jemima" and "brown sugar." Julian Bond, reaching deep into the old-school bag of tricks, turned to rhyme to asperse Dr. Rice's authenticity: "Just because they are your skin folks, doesn't mean they're your kinfolks."

Cute.

Then they went back to entertaining themselves with another Wayans-brothers movie.

[pan_sonic_000]

This argument is tired. It's a familial thing. I call my brother a shithead and an asshole in a manner I'd never use with a stranger. Thus, the N word is held in similar regard by the african american community.

"Familial"? That's absurd.

Why does no other culture use these, um, "familial" terms of racial denigration? When is the last time you saw Asians call each other chinks, or Hispanics call each other spics or wetbacks? Whites don't call each other crackers. That's because racial self-hatred isn't part of those cultures.

Furthermore, special interest groups aren't lobbying to have "shithead" and "asshole" added to the hate speech lexicon with the caveat that it doesn't apply if the person using it is directing it towards a person of the same race. Exclusive rules like that only serve to cause more separation between groups rather than create unity amongst everyone. Basically, you're just saying that it's okay for blacks to openly hate each other if they want (under the guise of "familial" banter), so long as nobody else does.

[kuranes]

Now, I am kind of a racist. One time I told that to a black friend of mine, and he said he disagreed with me. I get along well with him and a few other black people. I'm also in an interracial marriage. He told me that to him, I don't seem racist at all. But ... here's the thing. For me, racism isn't about conscious decisions. Racism doesn't just mean who I'll hang out with. It's all about snap judgments you make without even thinking about it.



I think there is a difference between Oso's "racism" and some comments we see further down.



I also found that this quote is most often used as trolling material on numerous websites by conservatives and racists opposed to Obama's bid for Presidency.
I purposely worded the OP to be a call for responses to the CNN special "Black in America" - - the OP was not intended to be an invitation for troll-like posts.

Yes. I know what you mean.


CNN has been rebroadcasting this report repeatedly all weekend, I think it's likely they will continue rebroadcasting it for the next week or two... check your cable schedule and the CNN website. We have it saved on the DVR at our house, so I don't know when exactly it's showing...
I get cable for free by just hooking into the wall outlet. I keep thinking they're going to discover it and disconnect me and so I don't buy things like "TV Guide". I just scroll through channels until I find something I like, and so I don't remember which channel CNN is on.


Also, as Oso showed us, many clips from the special are available on YouTube. I think I'll put together a summary of the special, especially some of the stats mentioned, to be posted in this thread... stay tuned, it won't get done yet tonight - maybe tomorrow or the next day.
OK


Yes, I watched it.

I just found many presuppositions that there is a significant strike against blacks because of their skin color. While I'm sure this is true to a certain extent, I didn't find much discussion regarding the shortcomings of the black community at large and how many of their public figures are undermining the solidarity they seek to achieve by promoting a divisive culture. That, too, is part of being black in America. I give big kudos to those who mentioned a lack of father figures and the breakdown of the family unit as that seems to be one step closer to taking responsibility in the one area it's most needed: with the individual.
Fair enough. You see this as being downplayed on the special.



Racial tensions certainly still exist between whites and blacks. As a white male, I find myself angered by the blatant hypocrisy, finger pointing and lack of common sense amongst the black community. People like 50 cent are idolized and worshiped for rapping this:
If there's beef, cock it and dump it, the drama really means nothin
Cause me, I ride by and blow your brains out(brains out)

And we've got nuts like Marilyn Manson or whoever the current shockjock white "bad boy" is...I saw a white death metal CD cover a year or two ago that showed a woman tied to a tree and hanging there without her legs, while a goon with a chain saw was walking away, having just cut them off in sadistic pleasure. F(r)ee speech and all that.

It seems to me like it's not the whole "black community" that's endorsing this stuff, though. I remember hearing Bill Cosby saying "Forget calling the police. The police aren't coming. We're coming."

I think some people have got used to thinking that all rap is about this. Much of it has the same beat, which makes this an "easy" assumption, but the lyrics ( if you can make them out ) may be the opposite of this. A lot of young people these days relate more to the lyrics than they do the mood of the music itself for some reason. A lot of rap has an angry "the natives are restless" feel to it, but may have a more upbeat message. And, of course, some of it IS going to be angry rants.


Damn...ok I can't speak for the entire black community...but rap is no longer the means by which we get the message out. It has now become a corporate whore putting out to anyone with some kind of cash.
I hear ya man.


I feel as though Black people are like animals bred in captivity and released into the wild by animal rights activists. They don't know what to do in societies natural habitats. They were bred to be beasts of burden(ie. physically strong, ignorant, controllable, and exploitable

Your opening words seem extreme to me, stopping just short of trolling. I compare Oso's "I'm a racist" to this.....Aren't you more concerned that they are NOT "controllable" anymore ? Or are you worried that black demogogues ( or rap stars etc. ) are taking control versus whatever the whites were offering ?


I believe it isn't black people's fault historically why they are like they are today but it is their problem and they are the only ones who can fix it.
They have to do their part. It's not all on them though. Like Zero was saying, that looks good on paper, but.... ( In this case an internet screen. )


That's not fair to say.
I'm glad you're concerned with fairness here.

[zero]

It also seems to be that racial stances from blacks to whites are nothing compared to the attitudes blacks have towards each other. The former may be self-deceptive and hypocritical, but the later is downright ruthless.

The amount of crap my ex girlfriend (black woman) had to put up with for dating me (white man) was unreal. People in her own family used to ask her: "why are you dating a white guy? Are you a nigger or a traitor?". With that kind of false dichotomy, it's no wonder so many black kids have shaky identities or are distrusting of whites without knowing why.

When black guys would hit on her and she'd reject their advances, they accused her of thinking she was "too good for a brother".

She also had a masters degree and spoke very articulately. This, of course, meant she was "acting white" and, also, a G.D.I ("goddamn individual").

wow this exactly what i went through when dating a white girl..but the other way around..i had to hear about how i was taking there only daughter with me to niggertown....i thought it was a joke...i was wrong....but i still laughed....I know how she feels and i know how you must have felt.


how come it was 'so easy' to 'breed' blacks as strong, fast, and ignorant, but we seem to have challenge 'breeding' them to be intelligent, articulate, and capable?

the answer to that is pretty simple...history...normally I like to take a passive approach to these things and let you figure it out...but

History is what a culture is basically defined by. black culture in America can trace it's history back to slavery (i hate bringing this up...do i have to?). It was a culture where it's people were prized for there strength and ability to be work horses. Now (and this is said in my most county-ist of accents) what happens when those around you including those socially above you continue to prize such attributes all through history? what happens when you can actually use such abilities to make money when you may not have had such opportunity otherwise?...i think we can imagine...teaching an old dog new tricks is tough...but doable...

[kuranes]

Bring back the whip, but lets whip the brain instead of the behind. Yeehaa! Crack!
Make things into a game instead of an obligation or "punishment" and people may surprise you. But this requires at least a little dialogue versus rote memorization. Teaching people how to learn and how to ask questions of themselves and others, versus just teaching facts.

"Call and response", in a wider sense.:)

[PonderBee]

The CNN Special Report presented a picture which is far more complex and nuanced than some of the comments in this thread may lead you to believe.



I have no doubt that I missed some gems of brilliance by passing on this series and I in no way think that I'm so enlightened that the series wouldn't be informative for me in some way. I am all for making progress - but I feel that progress has been severely disabled by the warped ideology of blame and hypocrisy that has been spoon-fed to and sucked up by both blacks and whites in our culture. When I see large numbers of blacks being forthright and standing up and speaking out for what is right based on truth without regard to skin color and not based on what is dictated by their culture I'll see that progress is being made. Life is busy and there is a lot of quality television that I have to pass on whatever the subject. I'm not about to blow 4 hours of my time sifting for a few flecks of gold dust when I am already at the crossroad waiting to take a turn toward progress.

[Ada_Lovelace]

Statistics from CNN's "Black in America":

Encouraging:

* Since 1970 the number of Black women with degrees has tripled.
* The number of Black-owned businesses has increased 45 percent in the last 10 years.
* In 2006 32 percent of Black households earned at least $50,000 annually, up from 18 percent in 1970.
[I want to assume this last stat was adjusted for inflation, but this was not stated in the report.]


Dismaying:

* Forty-five percent of Black women are not married or have never been married.
* Half of Black high-school students drop out.
* On average, Blacks die five years earlier than whites.
* 1/3 of black children in America live in poverty; vs. 1/10 White Children

Shocking:

* Seventy percent of Black children today are born to unwed mothers, while only 25 percent of Black children were born to unwed mothers in the 1960s.
* Forty-nine percent of the nation's homicide victims are Black.
* Blacks account for half of HIV/AIDS cases, and two-thirds of American women recently diagnosed are Black.

=========

Health Concerns/Accessibility to Healthy Food Choices: If you live in Harlem, you need to travel 20 blocks to buy a fresh tomato! (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/07/22/AR2008072203218_pf.html)

... among the most poignant stories is that of a 60-year-old woman, whom we first meet apologizing for her tears as she languishes in a Harlem hospital bed, correspondent Soledad O'Brien at her side.

Later, after the woman is released from the hospital and back in the poor [Harlem] neighborhood she calls home, we follow her as she embarks on a visit to the supermarket -- the nearest one being 20 blocks away at 110th and Broadway. For the woman, O'Brien says, that means an hour's trip via public transportation just to buy a tomato. It's no way to live, but she's living it.


?????????

What was your reaction to the statement one woman made in the program that she could find a gun in her neighborhood faster than she could find a tomato?

===========


Study: Black man [clean record] and white felon - same chances for hire (http://ac360.blogs.cnn.com/2008/07/24/study-black-man-and-white-felon-same-chances-for-hire/)

Devah Pager
Princeton University



"... I recently conducted a series of experiments investigating employment discrimination. In these experiments, which took place in Milwaukee and New York City, I hired young men to pose as job applicants, assigning them resumes with equal levels of education and experience, and sending them to apply for real entry-level job openings all over the city.

Team members also alternated presenting information about a fictitious criminal record (a drug felony), which they "fessed up to" on the application form. During nearly a year of fieldwork, teams of testers audited hundreds of employers, applying for a wide range of entry level jobs such as waiters, sales assistants, laborers, warehouse workers, couriers, and customer service representatives.

The results of these studies were startling. Among those with no criminal record, white applicants were more than twice as likely to receive a callback relative to equally qualified black applicants. Even more troubling, whites with a felony conviction fared just as well, if not better, than a black applicant with a clean background.

Racial disparities have been documented in many contexts, but here, comparing the two job applicants side by side, we are confronted with a troubling reality: Being black in America today is just about the same as having a felony conviction in terms of one's chances of finding a job.

The young black men posing as job applicants in this study were bright college kids, models of discipline and hard work; and yet, even in this best case scenario, these applicants were routinely overlooked simply on the basis of the color of their skin. The results of this study suggest that black men must work at least twice as hard as equally qualified whites simply to overcome the stigma of their skin color."

[MacGuffin]

Moved some posts here (http://forums.intpcentral.com/showthread.php?t=30466).

[Works]

Moved some posts here (http://forums.intpcentral.com/showthread.php?t=30466).

Sounds like he needs a radio show.