Concepts

[waxwing]

Do concepts exist, in pure form? If so, what is a concept (divorced from what we are conceptualizing)?

[n0mad]

I usually make a distinction with actually experiencing concept, and representing it through another set of symbols (like math, physics etc.). I'm not still sure, though.

[booyalab]

I'm not sure what you mean by 'pure form', you'll have to clarify.The concept is materially different from that which is being conceptualized. I think it's pointless and weird to make a distinction in speech, though, because speech is only made up of concepts. You can talk about the distinction, but even the distinction is a concept, and so you can never fully grasp it.

[n0mad]

Yes, it is hard to talk about it, though, intuitively, i fell i have something to say about it.

[booyalab]

Well I like to talk about it too.....but if you think about the fact that trying to grasp objective reality is still subjective...it kind of makes you want to explode (that way your mind would become one with objective reality..see what i'm getting at? lol jk)

[n0mad]

Exactly, but we could might as well end a lot of threads here if we were to firmly think that, wouldn't we? :)

[MacGuffin]

I don't have enough popcorn for this thread.

Good luck.

[booyalab]

Exactly, but we could might as well end a lot of threads here if we were to firmly think that, wouldn't we? :)

I try and I try and I try...but you guys are persistent little buggers, and macguffin seems to have an infinite amount of popcorn....(edit: or not)

[waxwing]

I'm not sure what you mean by 'pure form', you'll have to clarify.The concept is materially different from that which is being conceptualized. I think it's pointless and weird to make a distinction in speech, though, because speech is only made up of concepts. You can talk about the distinction, but even the distinction is a concept, and so you can never fully grasp it.
Yes, speech may only be made up of concepts, but that's exactly why I am asking the question. What is a concept, apart from whatever we are conceptualizing? The second half of your reply -- again, exactly what I am getting at. It seems that everything is a concept. So, again, what is a concept (I'm not asking you to define concept without using another concept)? I personally find it interesting for the very reasons you suggested.

[booyalab]

I guess I'd say everything we think and therefore talk about is a concept. As soon as a perception has reached our brain, it becomes a concept.

[Lee]

I think a concept is a representation information in a different format. The brain simply is a device that reacts to concrete information by reflecting it in a different format, which is a conceptualized version of concrete reality. These reflections can take many forms other than the human mind.

Such an awkward question to answer.

[waxwing]

I think a concept is a representation information in a different format. The brain simply is a device that reacts to concrete information by reflecting it in a different format, which is a conceptualized version of concrete reality. These reflections can take many forms other than the human mind.

Such an awkward question to answer.
Hm. Interesting. Well put.

I keep wondering this... What about actually looking at a real, concrete object, let's say, a can of soup....I look at the can and I immediately know what the can represents. It's soup, so it's a good lunch. Depending on my mood, it may or may not appeal to me. So, given this example, my concept of the can of soup is based on my experience of eating soup. However, my experience of eating soup is probably affected by my experiences of feeling hungry. So, what I'm getting at is: What is the actual concept of the can of soup? Is it my experience? My feeling of hunger? Is the concept (which I've always associated with the mind and thinking) really about our thoughts? Or is this all just a convoluted question of semantics? Okay, so maybe it's silly to ask about the concept of a can of soup, but the concept of hunger may be a more useful example.

[booyalab]

the concept of the can of soup is everything you associate with it.

[waxwing]

I'm being lazy right now, so C = concept

So, the concept of the can of soup becomes my C of eating soup + my C of feeling hungry + my C of tin cans + my C of using a can opener+ my C of cutting my finger on the lid + my C of recycling cans + my C of New England Clam Chowder + my C of chunky sirloin burger + my C of grilling + my C of grilled cheese + my C of burning my tongue, and so on?

[waxwing]

Does any of this make sense? I feel like I am rambling.
Hm. I need to think about this before I respond. I don't think you are rambling though. You've made some interesting points.

[Arioch]

I'm surprised nobodies mentioned this earlier.

Archetypes.

[Johnny]

I'm surprised nobodies mentioned this earlier.

Archetypes.That's because Jung doesn't really offer them as concepts, or representations (to my understanding). Archetypal images, however, would work fine as an example.

[Johnny]

Do concepts exist, in pure form? If so, what is a concept (divorced from what we are conceptualizing)?The answer, as I've been able to determine so far in my life is, respectively: yes, and a tool.

As human beings, we're lucky (cursed?) to have them at our disposal...or we would have become extinct a very, very long time ago.

[nBT]

oh theres different meanings for teh same word in different fields of our society.
i like the archetypes, lemme explain this abit more

a concept would be an abstract (formless) notion.
the can of soup. it has several apearances or forms a visual one, a word for it, a smell, taste, temperature, an audible part etc. then there are several personal memories attached to 'a can of soup'. etc.

the nasty thing with concepts is that their meaningborders are blurry. defenition of a concept is always by culture. shaping a concept, or with art, materializing an idea is about where the borders lie. the sharper you are able to set the borders for a concept the clearer it becomes. and it will lose its fluid meaning.

[Aryan]

Concept is our way of linking one knowledge with another.