Make it stop (the Palin thread)

[kendoiwan]

:banghead: My head is about to explode. :stupid: All this Sarah Palin business is killing me.
Her resume consists of running a town of under 9000 as mayor, and governing a state of 600,000, poorly as I understand it.

When you here the republican talking heads pitch her, they sell her life story.
But the moment anyone takes a critical look at her life story, people say "hands off" that's off limits.

:mad: :mad: :banghead: :mad: :banghead: :banghead:

[fripping]

but i've got vpilf fever!

[garak]

This whole Palin thing is a delicious disaster.

[ajblaise]

I laughed when Cindy McCain in an interview tried to bolster her national security credentials: "You know Alaska is the closest place in the US to Russia"

[SensEye]

http://i34.tinypic.com/4qgdqh.jpg

[MountainHiker]

Republicans have shown that qualifications or intelligence really do not matter. They voted for Bush...twice!

Either they are smart enough to know that the president just follows orders from his owners (the true hidden powers of the world) and like or accept this Machiavellian view. Or, they really are Bible-thumping, God, Guns & Guts simpletons. From my experience dealing with them, I'd say it's about 15% Machiavellian to 85% GGGers (although the GGG view is kind of a Machiavellian politics).

Cognitive dissonance, ideological inconsistency and the thought process that creates these two - emotionally-based, irrational religious beliefs - dominate the core voting block of the Republican party. Once those basics are understood, all a candidate must do is stoke the God, Guns & Guts fires and the mob will respond accordingly. By then it's a religious experience for the participant and they see it as God's will. At that point qualifications, experience, intellect, reason, reality, common courtesy and decency do not matter.

Hey, it's just the view of someone who lives around a whole lot of folks with "Real Men Love Jesus" and "In case of rapture, car's yours" bumper stickers on their vehicles.

[csroster]

I've also noticed how it's off limits to talk about her family unless you're talking about how she has 5 kids and is a hockey-mom or whatever. Which is all well and good don't get me wrong, but then somehow her kids and parenting skills are suddenly off-limits when people realize all isn't how it seems.

Damn I love politics.

[Domino]

Next: Rome will install a horse as emperor.

[C.J.Woolf]

Republicans have shown that qualifications or intelligence really do not matter. They voted for Bush...twice!
This blog post from 2005 put it into perspective: The Crazification Factor (http://kfmonkey.blogspot.com/2005/10/lunch-discussions-145-crazification.html)

Roughly 27% of the electorate will vote for a candidate who eats the flesh of the living, provided he has an (R) after his name. That's Bush's remaining base. Add another 23.1% to that, by hook or by crook, and the Republicans win. But Palin was picked to keep the 27% motivated to vote. Now they must defend some increasingly indefensible candidates and policies.

I'm hoping the Palin pick is the beginning of the end of the con.

[kendoiwan]

God Bless Jon Stewart and Stephen Colbert, they always say what everyone else is either oblivious to, or don't have the balls to say. Can't wait to see what Bill Mahr is going do with this.

I'm watching the repeats of last nights Daily Show, he's running the before and after clips of all the republicans crying foul about Palin, and contrasting what they themselves said about Hillary and Jamie Lyn Spears...

I still want it to stop, but this makes it hurt a little less...

[Ferrus]

http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2005/10/20051006-3.html


John: ... I mean, what will it take? That last speech literally made no sense. It was crazy drunken bar talk! Islamic radicals are like COMMUNISM?! (gets speech on laptop) If we don't fight terrorists in Iraq they'll build a fundamentalist terrorist state stretching from Spain to Indonesia? What the fuck? Even assuming Spain, which last time I checked is 95% Roman Catholic, goes down, you gotta assume France, Italy, Greece, Bulgaria, all eight hundred million Hindus in India, Burma, Laos, Thailand, Vietnam and Singapore would be somewhat of an obstacle.

Hahaha. 'There will be no end to the troubles of states, or of humanity itself, till philosophers become kings in this world, or till those we now call kings and rulers really and truly become philosophers, and political power and philosophy thus come into the same hands.'

[kendoiwan]

Oh boy, Colbert is killing Leiberman! This is great stuff... :rofl: :rofl:

[abathur]

http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2005/10/20051006-3.html



Hahaha. 'There will be no end to the troubles of states, or of humanity itself, till philosophers become kings in this world, or till those we now call kings and rulers really and truly become philosophers, and political power and philosophy thus come into the same hands.'

More called it I guess.

[outmywindow]

Sarah Palin is quoted as saying that she prayed for a $30 million natural gas pipeline in Alaska, and that it was "God's will" that it was constructed. She's right. I do remember there being a passage in the Bible about natural gas:

"Verily, verily, I say unto thee, behold the breath of the earth. And the breath of the earth shall light the fires of man and heat the houses of man and cook the flesh of the beasts of man, and it shall be good. Especially the short ribs." BLSHT. 3:26-28 (skip a bit, Brother)

[Limey]

Sarah Palin

Sarah Palin is a Vagina having Alaskan - wots not to big up wi' massiv' respec'? (from your perspective)

[Denzien]

Sure are a lot of INTP Lefties. I'm a moderate, but I just don't see the appeal of big government, huge social programs and high taxes.

Unless I'm completely misinformed. :shrug:

[MountainHiker]

Sure are a lot of INTP Lefties. I'm a moderate, but I just don't see the appeal of big government, huge social programs and high taxes.

Unless I'm completely misinformed. :shrug:

Did someone here promote big government, huge social programs and high taxes? I didn't see it.

Perhaps it's not about misinformation but misinterpretation as most all Republicans I've even known consider all non-Republicans as being for big government, huge social programs and high taxes. Most Republicans seem to conclude that anyone who's not as right as they are as socialist, communist lefties promoting big government, huge social programs and high taxes. Being left of right doesn't instantly mean anyone is in favor of those things. Being against Republicans doesn't make you in favor of big government, huge social programs and high taxes.

I am in no way conservative, but I own guns wouldn't mind seeing the federal government of the US essentially collapse, and would rather have seen our privately owned railroads remain viable rather than being destroyed by the socialist Interstate system so loved by conservatives. I don't know how to categorize myself politically with that ideology, but every conservative republican I've ever me calls me a Leftist. Go figure.

[Leafknight]

Alarm bells go off in my brain when I head the words "Deus Vult" or in the modern parlance of Sarah Palin (poor Micheal!), "It's God's will!"

Reason on the pyre, madness in the halls of government.

:stupid:

Edit to add: For those who don't know, "Deus Vult" or "It's God's will" was the battlecry of the Crusaders...

[SWPIGWANG]

Huge government and debt vs Huge government and taxes: pick your poison.


I don't know how to categorize myself politically with that ideology, but every conservative republican I've ever me calls me a Leftist. Go figure.
You are either with us or against us. (and thus liberal-socio-commu-faci-islamo-terro-amoralists)

[purveyor of truth]

Palin is a self serving evil bitch. Mccain might be a good man, who knows, but certainly he is a moron. I cant stand his cheezy stupid grin.

[Chunes]

Sure are a lot of INTP Lefties. I'm a moderate, but I just don't see the appeal of big government, huge social programs and high taxes.

Unless I'm completely misinformed. :shrug:

The way I see it, a lot of INTPs are highly socially permissive, and generally left ecnomically, with the large caveat that the government must be lean and efficient, yet still with a highly regulated economy.

[outmywindow]

Sure are a lot of INTP Lefties. I'm a moderate, but I just don't see the appeal of big government, huge social programs and high taxes.

Unless I'm completely misinformed. :shrug:
I don't consider myself a Leftie (I don't really consider myself any one thing when it comes to politics), I'm just hugely skeptical of people who can't separate church and state.

Any politician -- Democrat, Republican, or Other -- who actively engages in faith-based decision making on a public stage gets a big X next to their name in my book.

[Shoot!]

Any politician -- Democrat, Republican, or Other -- who actively engages in faith-based decision making on a public stage gets a big X next to their name in my book.

Though there are some who will publicly say that God influences their decision making, but don't necessarily mean it. I think there are many closet atheists/very liberal Christians in government at the moment.

[ryan_m_parr]

Sometimes people use religion as an extension of themselves. They use empowerment through a "higher self," which people idealize of the self[-delusionment.] Generally I view many so called religious people to look toward self-benefit, to empower the ego through the belief they are helping others, when in fact the other is really just a servile pawn at their command. Selfish-Gene.

Whether Hitler was an Athiest; Jim Jones. . . Perhaps Mother Theresa was really being honest when saying she only did what she did so she could go to heaven. . . If she was merely fearful of eternal damnation, which is what motivated her, and no one really mattered, she might well have been "godless" as most people stereotypically (hence wrongly) define non-religious ethical practice. In sense, most who use religion for leadership aren't really religious. . . so (the above post) you are true.

Earlier on this thread it was mentioned that the conservatives look at the liberals as being the ones pro big-government, which it should be the complete opposite of this. The conservatives are everything about bigger government, if not outright opposition to the constitution's checks and balances (using privatization to avoid Geneva Convention guidelines for war tribunals.) Encroaching on federal funding by having no-bid contracts to further agenda in personal interests, etc. and extend the government infrastructure; using Executive Orders as a way to centralize government power.

[Zephyrus055]

Since we're talking about Machiavellianism, I have a question.

I am a political realist. Yes I love Machiavelli, Metternich, and Bismarck.

Does that make me a conservative? I kind of fit everywhere on the spectrum, but I'm best described as socially liberal and economically conservative - though everything fits within the schema of pragmatism in my pov.

I oppose the war in Iraq, because I want a balance of power and not some noob Wilhelm I who disrupts that balance and causes an unnecessarily costly political conflict. I believe in cooperation with Russia and China as the best means for peace, power and prosperity.

[2ds]

Sometimes people use religion as an extension of themselves. They use empowerment through a "higher self," which people idealize of the self[-delusionment.] Generally I view many so called religious people to look toward self-benefit, to empower the ego through the belief they are helping others, when in fact the other is really just a servile pawn at their command. Selfish-Gene.

Whether Hitler was an Athiest; Jim Jones. . . Perhaps Mother Theresa was really being honest when saying she only did what she did so she could go to heaven. . . If she was merely fearful of eternal damnation, which is what motivated her, and no one really mattered, she might well have been "godless" as most people stereotypically (hence wrongly) define non-religious ethical practice. In sense, most who use religion for leadership aren't really religious. . . so (the above post) you are true.

Earlier on this thread it was mentioned that the conservatives look at the liberals as being the ones pro big-government, which it should be the complete opposite of this. The conservatives are everything about bigger government, if not outright opposition to the constitution's checks and balances (using privatization to avoid Geneva Convention guidelines for war tribunals.) Encroaching on federal funding by having no-bid contracts to further agenda in personal interests, etc. and extend the government infrastructure; using Executive Orders as a way to centralize government power.

Um should the conservative party be split up into conservatives and neo-conservatives?

i would call GWB a neo-con which is nothing like what I consider a normal con to be?

[Ferrus]

Mccain might be a good man
Frankly given his personal and political history I doubt it. That is an irrelevant factor though.

[kendoiwan]

Did someone here promote big government, huge social programs and high taxes? I didn't see it.



I am in no way conservative, but I own guns wouldn't mind seeing the federal government of the US essentially collapse, and would rather have seen our privately owned railroads remain viable rather than being destroyed by the socialist Interstate system so loved by conservatives. I don't know how to categorize myself politically with that ideology, but every conservative republican I've ever me calls me a Leftist. Go figure.

Libertarian...

[Leafknight]

I believe I consider myself a quorum of one. :happpy:

[JBHunt]

Palin is a self serving evil bitch.
She's part of the nerd girl movement. (http://forums.intpcentral.com/showthread.php?t=30315&highlight=revenge)

[Ferrus]

She's part of the nerd girl movement. (http://forums.intpcentral.com/showthread.php?t=30315&highlight=revenge)
A fundamentalist, hunting, 5 child family nerd?

Eh, no.

She does look like a librarian though.

[ryan_m_parr]

Um should the conservative party be split up into conservatives and neo-conservatives?

i would call GWB a neo-con which is nothing like what I consider a normal con to be?

It is true that GWB put a whole new meaning to conservative politics. Republicans though. . . have long screwed with the economic policies and often come close to destroying the economy.

If viewing conservatives as being the wealthy aristocracy, the Federal Reserve has had members admit to creating the collapse in the stock market. Sometimes affecting the economy can put certain "cures" of policy making decisions, by creating a problem and having a reaction to it, to implement new government practice. Centralizing government and creating Executive Orders. Many Republicans are to blame for centralized government, many of which occur early within the last century.

[omnirook]

Sorry - it won't stop - ever ... Well, for each of us, it will stop - when we die (look forward to that; I do) ... In the meantime, well - I've got a suspicion: John McCain will be the next president, by a narrow margin ... ah, well ...

Republicans since Bush the First have chosen non-entities for their running mates. Pallin meets all the criteria - a nobody, a nothing, but a cute nobody, a cute nothing.

One other thing - if this is how the McCain (mis-) Administration will handle "intelligence," get ready for more Iraq-like wars and an even harsher deterioration in Civil Rights. I'm convinced that the knocked up, un-wed daughter came as a complete surprise to the McCain team.

It has been amusing to listen to all the staunch,
Bible-thumping "conservatives" back-peddling and "er-humming." In history, there has never been a bigger group of hypocrites than Christians - so it's funny to see them trying to get around their own previous statements about whores and sluts.

[kendoiwan]

Sorry - it won't stop - ever ... Well, for each of us, it will stop - when we die (look forward to that; I do) ... In the meantime, well - I've got a suspicion: John McCain will be the next president, by a narrow margin ... ah, well ...

Republicans since Bush the First have chosen non-entities for their running mates. Pallin meets all the criteria - a nobody, a nothing, but a cute nobody, a cute nothing.

One other thing - if this is how the McCain (mis-) Administration will handle "intelligence," get ready for more Iraq-like wars and an even harsher deterioration in Civil Rights. I'm convinced that the knocked up, un-wed daughter came as a complete surprise to the McCain team.

It has been amusing to listen to all the staunch,
Bible-thumping "conservatives" back-peddling and "er-humming." In history, there has never been a bigger group of hypocrites than Christians - so it's funny to see them trying to get around their own previous statements about whores and sluts.

If what you're saying is true, then look up the history of Sparta, and look into our future...

[sandwich]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v205/wealhtheow/frappycandidates.gif

[A Schnitzel]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v205/wealhtheow/frappycandidates.gif
Obama: Ya know what could really help you sort through these important issues?
Clinton: What?
Gang: ORANGE MOCHA FRAPPUCCINOS!!!

[Guitarded]

Republicans since Bush the First have chosen non-entities for their running mates. Pallin meets all the criteria - a nobody, a nothing, but a cute nobody, a cute nothing.

It's funny how Dick Cheney chose President Bush to be his non-entity.

[dubbeltop]

Make it stop

palindrome, palingate, palingrad

Well anymore suggestions?

[Guitarded]

Make it stop

palindrome, palingate, palingrad

Well anymore suggestions?

Palinwater

[Ferrus]

Palingrad?!

You know Stalingrad did ultimately prove to be impregnable...

[Oso Mocoso]

http://craphound.com/images/2008-09-03-NotVettingSarahPalin.jpg

[Tirregius]

Sometimes people use religion as an extension of themselves. They use empowerment through a "higher self," which people idealize of the self[-delusionment.] Generally I view many so called religious people to look toward self-benefit, to empower the ego through the belief they are helping others, when in fact the other is really just a servile pawn at their command. Selfish-Gene.

Whether Hitler was an Athiest; Jim Jones. . . Perhaps Mother Theresa was really being honest when saying she only did what she did so she could go to heaven. . . If she was merely fearful of eternal damnation, which is what motivated her, and no one really mattered, she might well have been "godless" as most people stereotypically (hence wrongly) define non-religious ethical practice. In sense, most who use religion for leadership aren't really religious. . . so (the above post) you are true.

Earlier on this thread it was mentioned that the conservatives look at the liberals as being the ones pro big-government, which it should be the complete opposite of this. The conservatives are everything about bigger government, if not outright opposition to the constitution's checks and balances (using privatization to avoid Geneva Convention guidelines for war tribunals.) Encroaching on federal funding by having no-bid contracts to further agenda in personal interests, etc. and extend the government infrastructure; using Executive Orders as a way to centralize government power.

Wrong - the brand of "conservatism" I subscribe to ACTALLY wants smaller gov't - PERIOD. Stict constitutionalists, actually. Maybe listen to Dennis Prager once in a while - oh but that means having to engage a bigot.

Well, I guess you will remain insular with your philosophy.

T.

[Tirregius]

I absolutely love how Sara Palin has the Lib talking heads scrambling for a move . . . this shows how dedicated to their feminist philosophy they are these days . . . "How is she going to take care of her kids while she's a VP? HUH??? Answer that!!" . . . my God - the Dems have turned Far Religious Right.

There is no greater enemy to the left than a Black or female conservative!

T.

[Toonia]

In this election the Republicans are admittedly basing their campaign strategy on personality. If that is their most convincing case, then they have lost my vote. It's insulting to be blatantly manipulated w/o much concern for communicating their policy plans. It seems that their position is a continuation of current policy which is unpopular, so their best chance is to focus on personality. From what I have seen so far, Obama has enough else to stand on to not denigrate his opponent's personality and character. I watched his speeches with cynicism and he answered the majority of my questions within the speech.

If the Republicans had chosen Elizabeth Dole, they would have at least gotten my attention, but Sarah Palin communicates incompetence. Her position on religion and policy troubles me. I'm not certain what I think of Biden, but he is markedly direct and tough in his communication. I am looking forward to the debates: Palin vs. Biden. That should be interesting.

[kendoiwan]

Hell I'm waiting for them to stop handling her with kid gloves and allow her to interview. It's easy to appear competent when no one can question what it is you're saying. Ask W.

[Lurker]

I absolutely love how Sara Palin has the Lib talking heads scrambling for a move . . . this shows how dedicated to their feminist philosophy they are these days . . . "How is she going to take care of her kids while she's a VP? HUH??? Answer that!!" . . . my God - the Dems have turned Far Religious Right.

There is no greater enemy to the left than a Black or female conservative!

T.

I haven't heard that so much as "OMG, she's only been a governor for less than two years...and in an isolated state, at that!"

Sarah Palin's qualifications: aggressive as hell (like Dubya), wields weapons well, attractive ex-beauty queen, ruthlessly ambitious. In short, a young, uninformed, fundie, aggressive bitch. I love having the Nascar, gun totin' types a flatline away from the highest office in U.S. government. Yay.

Notably lacking: intellect, breadth of knowledge, openmindedness, thoughtfulness, experience, and education.

This country caters to to lowest common denominator.

[Tirregius]

I haven't heard that so much as "OMG, she's only been a governor for less than two years...and in an isolated state, at that!"

Sarah Palin's qualifications: aggressive as hell (like Dubya), wields weapons well, attractive ex-beauty queen, ruthlessly ambitious. In short, a young, uninformed, fundie, aggressive bitch. I love having the Nascar, gun totin' types a flatline away from the highest office in U.S. government. Yay.

Notably lacking: intellect, breadth of knowledge, openmindedness, thoughtfulness, experience, and education.

This country caters to to lowest common denominator.

Sorry - you cannot speak like this and fit your description - she is scary-intelligent, well spoken and thoughtful.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ys4HGbiONY&feature=related

Don't buy the propaganda - she kicks ass.

T.

[kendoiwan]

Sorry - you cannot speak like this and fit your description - she is scary-intelligent, well spoken and thoughtful.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ys4HGbiONY&feature=related

Don't buy the propaganda - she kicks ass.

T.

Please tell me you're joking? I clicked on that link expecting alot more from your intro... You can't be THAT easily impressed...:mellow:

[Lurker]

Sorry - you cannot speak like this and fit your description - she is scary-intelligent, well spoken and thoughtful.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ys4HGbiONY&feature=related

Don't buy the propaganda - she kicks ass.

T.

Okay, I need to amend my former comments. I will give you that she's intelligent and well spoken. Thoughtful? Not enough. She seems like a strong J to me, one who comes to closure and vaults herself in an airtight chamber with her chosen opinions.

[kendoiwan]

Okay, I need to amend my former comments. I will give you that she's intelligent and well spoken. Thoughtful? Not enough. She seems like a strong J to me, one who comes to closure and vaults herself in an airtight chamber with her chosen opinions.

:mellow: :mellow: :mellow:

[Toonia]

Sorry - you cannot speak like this and fit your description - she is scary-intelligent, well spoken and thoughtful.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ys4HGbiONY&feature=related

Don't buy the propaganda - she kicks ass.

T.
That clip is focused on information about the oil in the ANWR, and it is expected that the governor of Alaska would be informed on that issue. The all or nothing evaluation of people's competence doesn't usually represent reality. She certainly has some level of competence to function in her career this far. Next to the interviewer Larry Kudlow, I'd agree she looks like a genius. I wonder why she is not doing unscripted interviews if her level of intelligence and articulation are assumed adequate? I also question the breadth of her knowledge. The soundbites like defending her international experience by saying she has governed a state that is near Russia creates a lot of doubt. That was Cindy McCain's comment of support for her, not a critic's bashing. Can you be more specific about her being scary-intelligent? My impression so far is that she is above average, but not a genius, has some governing experience, but not what would typically qualify someone for the VP. Describe how she demonstrates "scary-intelligence".

When she said that it would use 2,000 acres to drill, does that include the roads and pipelines required to get the oil in and out? It's consistent with Western European values to dominate nature and use it for material and economic ends. That's been going on for centuries, and I suspect it is only a matter of time before drilling will occur in Alaska. It creates balance to have people on both sides of the issue to moderate and keep things in check. Even if the environmentalists ideals only result in pressure to develop more environmentally safe methods of extracting the oil, then something is gained. What both sides of the debate indicate is that the harm and/or gain the opponent professes is minor. The economic gains are minor and the environmental damage is minor.

[kendoiwan]

That clip is focused on information about the oil in the ANWR, and it is expected that the governor of Alaska would be informed on that issue. The all or nothing evaluation of people's competence doesn't usually represent reality. She certainly has some level of competence to function in her career this far. Next to the interviewer Larry Kudlow, I'd agree she looks like a genius. I wonder why she is not doing unscripted interviews if her level of intelligence and articulation are assumed adequate? I also question the breadth of her knowledge. The soundbites like defending her international experience by saying she has governed a state that is near Russia creates a lot of doubt. That was Cindy McCain's comment of support for her, not a critic's bashing. Can you be more specific about her being scary-intelligent? My impression so far is that she is above average, but not a genius, has some governing experience, but not what would typically qualify someone for the VP. Describe how she demonstrates "scary-intelligence".

.

I'll concede your point that she must have some level of competence:mellow:

But she said nothing of consequence in that particular clip.

[Tirregius]

I just picked the first video of her that I saw ... she is speaking on a fairly complex subject here and is able to respond very intelligently and susinctly while being bombarded by questions of economics, social issues, etc.

Not the lightweight many are making her out to be.

[kendoiwan]

I just picked the first video of her that I saw ... she is speaking on a fairly complex subject here and is able to respond very intelligently and susinctly while being bombarded by questions of economics, social issues, etc.

Not the lightweight many are making her out to be.

I could post clips of Bill Maher or Jon Stewart or Stephen Colbert, or hell even George Clooney speaking about fairly complex subjects in "intellegent" (I question what she said that was so intellegent seeing as what she said is essentially public domain at this point.) and "succient" manner and you wouldn't want any of them to be a heartbeat away from the presidency...

Let's see her unscripted handling fastballs without evading the facts...

[Toonia]

I'll concede your point that she must have some level of competence:mellow:

But she said nothing of consequence in that particular clip.
There were plenty of questions left unanswered in the clip. I don't think it made a completely strong case for her as governor let alone VP. Actually my main point is that it isn't necessary to create a strawman argument against her. She doesn't have to be completely incompetent to not be the right choice for VP, or to lack the skills needed for the job. I'm also trying to be careful in my evaluation of her because most of my info comes from clips of her incompetence, including her poking fun at opponents in an unreasonable manner.

[Ferrus]

susinctly
Read: oversimplification and knee-jerk rhetoric.

[Limey]

If you add one letter to her last name, it would be "Nilfap" backwards.
NIL FAP!
OMFG!!!!!!11!!1!!one

what the voting public (especially in the mid-west) wants to know is - just how large are the potential VP nominees boobs.

[kendoiwan]

http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/la-oe-steinem4-2008sep04,0,7541303.story?track=ntothtml

[MountainHiker]

Wrong - the brand of "conservatism" I subscribe to ACTALLY wants smaller gov't - PERIOD. Stict constitutionalists, actually. Maybe listen to Dennis Prager once in a while - oh but that means having to engage a bigot.

Well, I guess you will remain insular with your philosophy.

T.

I've heard this one before. I'm not saying YOU are this way, but most constitutionalists I've encountered thus far lean toward this bizarre idea that the Founding Fathers actually meant this to be a Christian-based government with the Bible as a basic foundational centerpiece. They usually spout all of the small government stuff while getting conveniently quiet about mixing church and state.

Are you anti-Federal Reserve too? Going back to gold-backed money is Constitutional. However, I'd bet money that ANY candidate who endorsed such an idea would have a terrible accident and a more suitable, pro-Fed person would take their place.

I can appreciate most arguments about a smaller federal government, especially the regulatory, policing and military actions and spending on these activities. However, by the tone of your posts I can see you're as personally charming as most constitutionalists I've encountered in the past. Anyone who doesn't see things your way, or listen to your radio guru and agree, is somehow philosophically challenged and stupid. Yet such criteria does not apply to you if you similarly do the same exact thing with the ideas and philosophy of someone else. It's like you guys are all stamped from the same mold. What you guys really need to learn is how to unclench.

Now, you can either show I am building a straw man here and am wrong, or you will prove my past experiences in dealing with guys like you as correct. I'll bet on the latter. Yours is a very predictable personality type. Please prove me wrong and make my poor, unchallenged, inadequately educated mind work to come up with a new model to explain guys like you. Here's your chance to stick it to a lesser mind.

[zero]

If you add one letter to her last name, it would be "Nilfap" backwards.
NIL FAP!
OMFG!!!!!!11!!1!!one

what the voting public (especially in the mid-west) wants to know is - just how large are the potential VP nominees boobs.

:highfive:

[pangolin]

The way I see it, a lot of INTPs are highly socially permissive, and generally left ecnomically, with the large caveat that the government must be lean and efficient, yet still with a highly regulated economy.

This.

[MountainHiker]

The way I see it, a lot of INTPs are highly socially permissive, and generally left ecnomically, with the large caveat that the government must be lean and efficient, yet still with a highly regulated economy.

Yes, I agree. This defines my political ideology quite well. Now, since everything politically must be labeled, what label applies to this ideology?

[Toonia]

http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/la-oe-steinem4-2008sep04,0,7541303.story?track=ntothtml
Her political positions are disturbing. If it was McCain's hope to win over Hilary supporters, he made a strange choice in Palin. Is it possible that it was assumed women would switch support to her simply because she is a woman? If anything, I would expect women to hold her more accountable for her positions on women's issues because of her gender.

I have a few people to whom i plan to forward that link.

[zago]

:banghead: My head is about to explode. :stupid: All this Sarah Palin business is killing me.
Her resume consists of running a town of under 9000 as mayor, and governing a state of 600,000, poorly as I understand it.

When you here the republican talking heads pitch her, they sell her life story.
But the moment anyone takes a critical look at her life story, people say "hands off" that's off limits.

:mad: :mad: :banghead: :mad: :banghead: :banghead:

It isn't hard to avoid. I gave up TV this year and now I know fuck-all about any of this shit. Doesn't bother me in the slightest. I couldn't give a fuck who gets elected, really.

[Limey]

Her political positions are disturbing. If it was McCain's hope to win over Hilary supporters, he made a strange choice in Palin. Is it possible that it was assumed women would switch support to her simply because she is a woman? If anything, I would expect women to hold her more accountable for her positions on women's issues because of her gender.

I have a few people to whom i plan to forward that link.

This will probably come down to Ohioan women, whom I don't doubt will be voting for a vagina over a manifesto.

[Chunes]

Yes, I agree. This defines my political ideology quite well. Now, since everything politically must be labeled, what label applies to this ideology?

The problem is that 'economically left' gets lumped with more taxes and larger government, when that doesn't have to be the case. I think a lot of us are for smaller government (judging by how many of us like Ron Paul) but still want a well-regulated economy. The closest label I can think of would be social-libertarian technocracy, perhaps. (Technocracy because such a setup would require a very efficient regulation system.)

[C.J.Woolf]

Her political positions are disturbing. If it was McCain's hope to win over Hilary supporters, he made a strange choice in Palin.
Pardon me while I quote myself:


This blog post from 2005 put it into perspective: The Crazification Factor (http://kfmonkey.blogspot.com/2005/10/lunch-discussions-145-crazification.html)

Roughly 27% of the electorate will vote for a candidate who eats the flesh of the living, provided he has an (R) after his name. That's Bush's remaining base. Add another 23.1% to that, by hook or by crook, and the Republicans win. But Palin was picked to keep the 27% motivated to vote. Now they must defend some increasingly indefensible candidates and policies.

I'm hoping the Palin pick is the beginning of the end of the con.
Palin is all about base consolidation; everything else is secondary. The Christian Right had been lukewarm about McCain but they love Palin. Of course they'll take whatever they can get, but I get the feeling that the idea of Palin picking off Hillary supporters is just media speculation.

Speaking of media speculation -- she's accomplishing one of her secondary missions right now by taking the media's attention away from Obama, and more importantly away from McCain,who is not a good campaigner. Look for the McCain campaign to try and change the subject a lot. Their record and the issues are against them.

[MountainHiker]

The problem is that 'economically left' gets lumped with more taxes and larger government, when that doesn't have to be the case.

I know exactly what you mean. As soon you you insult a Republican they figure you're an ultra left-wing, socialist, communist, big taxes, big government fanatic. Bush has shown that you don't have to raise taxes to have everything...hell, just leave it all to the next guy and the next generation! That's been the story of his life.




Palin is all about base consolidation; everything else is secondary. The Christian Right had been lukewarm about McCain but they love Palin. Of course they'll take whatever they can get, but I get the feeling that the idea of Palin picking off Hillary supporters is just media speculation.

Speaking of media speculation -- she's accomplishing one of her secondary missions right now by taking the media's attention away from Obama, and more importantly away from McCain,who is not a good campaigner. Look for the McCain campaign to try and change the subject a lot. Their record and the issues are against them.

I read that the last time you posted. Good stuff! I think you're right. I knew they had to get some kind of Bible thumper in there with McCain to keep the religious wackos in the fold. I figured they'd use Huckleberry, but they found a woman to play against Obama's race.

We've become a terrible joke as a nation. Let's repeat Rome all over again as I'd just as soon vote a horse in as president as any of these "God's will" religious nuts anxiously awaiting their Rapture. I'm really ready to just drop out of the economy and society all together, but they'll never let you as long as they can milk a tax dollar from your hide.

[starla]

Palin is all about base consolidation; everything else is secondary. The Christian Right had been lukewarm about McCain but they love Palin. Of course they'll take whatever they can get, but I get the feeling that the idea of Palin picking off Hillary supporters is just media speculation.

Speaking of media speculation -- she's accomplishing one of her secondary missions right now by taking the media's attention away from Obama, and more importantly away from McCain,who is not a good campaigner. Look for the McCain campaign to try and change the subject a lot. Their record and the issues are against them.

Yep, I agree. I also think McCain was trying to appease the Christian Right without completely bending over and picking some well-known nutjob who would scare away more centrist voters. At least if nobody knows what she stands for, they won't be scared off by it. I think he had no idea how much media attention she'd get, though. Nice job on that front.

I have to say, I was underwhelmed by the Biden pick. I can't figure out if he was supposed to bring something to the table, or if Obama is egotistical enough to want someone who has no possibility of garnering enough attention to overshadow him. I'm leaning towards the latter.

Anyway, all Palin has done for me is make certain I'll vote for Obama instead of staying home in November. She seems nice enough and genuine enough, and her lack of experience doesn't bother me so much, but her political positions are mostly everything I'm against.

[C.J.Woolf]

I have to say, I was underwhelmed by the Biden pick. I can't figure out if he was supposed to bring something to the table, or if Obama is egotistical enough to want someone who has no possibility of garnering enough attention to overshadow him. I'm leaning towards the latter.
From what I read, Obama picked Biden more for personal than political reasons. That is, Obama likes him and they work together well.

McCain wanted to pick Sen. Joe Lieberman or former Gov. Tom Ridge of Pennsylvania, but they're both pro-choice and there would have been a Christian Right revolt over it. So for McCain the political won out over the personal.

Looking at it this way, I think Obama has balls to pick the man who he thinks would be a better Vice President over someone who might help his campaign more. But then Obama has made a lot of ballsy moves in his campaign, such as putting significant resources into red states. He intends to win this thing big and on his own terms.

[walfin]

Good for y'all I'm not an American. I actually agree with her on quite a bit of stuff.

[kendoiwan]

Her political positions are disturbing. If it was McCain's hope to win over Hilary supporters, he made a strange choice in Palin. Is it possible that it was assumed women would switch support to her simply because she is a woman? If anything, I would expect women to hold her more accountable for her positions on women's issues because of her gender.

I have a few people to whom i plan to forward that link.
The latest polls show a 20 point swing in white women voters:stupid: :stupid: :stupid:

It isn't hard to avoid. I gave up TV this year and now I know fuck-all about any of this shit. Doesn't bother me in the slightest. I couldn't give a fuck who gets elected, really.

I'm not signing up for apathy and social isolation. Thanks but no thanks.:happpy:


Good for y'all I'm not an American. I actually agree with her on quite a bit of stuff.

For instance<_<


It’s interesting to know that women, who are supposed to be the fairer and more emotionally grounded sex, are willing to fuck over the whole entire country because their candidate didn’t win. They seriously think that if they skip the general election out of spite, then 4 - 8 more years of John McBush will somehow be Barack Obama’s fault instead of their own. I imagine these same women refuse to feed their infants and, when they die of starvation, they shrug their shoulders and tell the jury “hey…that nigga shoulda hit up a Hunan or somethin’.”

http://stuffblackpeoplehate.com/

This quote more or less sums up how I feel about women voters at present...

[Platoxia]

Hell I'm waiting for them to stop handling her with kid gloves and allow her to interview. It's easy to appear competent when no one can question what it is you're saying. Ask W.


Sorry - you cannot speak like this and fit your description - she is scary-intelligent, well spoken and thoughtful.


Let's see her unscripted handling fastballs without evading the facts...

September 9, 2008:

From the Huffington Post...

"Speaking before voters in Colorado Springs, the Republican vice presidential nominee claimed that lending giants Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac had "gotten too big and too expensive to the taxpayers." The companies, as McClatchy reported, "aren't taxpayer funded but operate as private companies. The takeover may result in a taxpayer bailout during reorganization."


Yeah, she's reeeeeaaaaal smart...and well informed on current affairs as well.

From History News Network:

"Fannie Mae was created in 1938 as part of Franklin Delano Roosevelt's New Deal. The collapse of the national housing market in the wake of the Great Depression discouraged private lenders from investing in home loans. Fannie Mae was established in order to provide local banks with federal money to finance home mortgages in an attempt to raise levels of home ownership and the availability of affordable housing. "

...

"In 1968, due to fiscal pressures created by the Vietnam War, Lyndon B. Johnson privatized Fannie Mae in order to remove it from the national budget. At this point, Fannie Mae began operating as a GSE (govt. sponsored entity), generating profits for stock holders while enjoying the benefits of exemption from taxation and oversight as well as implied government backing."

Fannie hasn't been a government funded program since 1968. Even though Johnson was a Dem., this is exactly the problem with the Republicans wanting to privatize everything.

A well run government organization that is created to help the citizens follow the "American Dream" as a hedge against the Free Market's affects of maximizing profits at all costs shows potential to make a profit (it actually did make a profit as a government funded program) and all the wealthy want a piece of it. They don't give a damn about the organization fulfilling its purpose of helping people buy homes, they only want to maximize the profits and ultimately destroy the organization's ability to fulfill the reason it was created in the first place.

In this case, the greed associated with maximizing profits led to ignorant policies that created the housing bubble and ultimately it burst just as all bubbles in the market place do.

So, if you think being "economically conservative" is a good thing you better get the definition right. The Republican's views of conservative economics is Reaganomics, which means the trickle down affect, which means privatizing everything, which means "let them eat cake". Bush Sr. got it right before he got it wrong...voodoo economics is what it is.

[MountainHiker]

McCain / Palin presented their BS in the right place: Colorado Springs. It has more far right conservative religious nut cases per capita than almost anyplace else in the county, hell maybe even the world. In the Springs a Republican candidate could stomp baby humans and animals to death onstage while eating live, uncooked human flesh, but if he/she talks about god, Jesus and protecting fetuses while doing so the crowd will be having religious experiences that lead to fainting.

C.J. Woolf got it right. They picked Palin to keep the religious nutcase base on board. The Republican leadership is better at directing brain dead zombies than George Romero!

[Denzien]

The Republican leadership is better at directing brain dead zombies than George Romero!

I could say the same about the Democrats and their pandering to poor families by offering up my tax dollars to encourage more breeding.

[Limey]

I could say the same about the Democrats and their pandering to poor families by offering up my tax dollars to encourage more breeding.

And what about those Mexicans? and BLACKS!

[MountainHiker]

I could say the same about the Democrats and their pandering to poor families by offering up my tax dollars to encourage more breeding.

And here I thought the Dems were the party that killed all babies with abortion according the religious zealots! Or, do the Dems tax to pay for the breeding, then tax to pay for the abortion once bred? Now I'm confused.

You are correct, the Dems do have their share of brain dead zombies too, but I live around a whole lot of absolutely insane, right-wing, brain-dead nutcases so I find that variety much more irritating and dangerous. After all, their atrocities are sanctioned by Gawd himself so they are righteous!

It's really funny that the myth of Republicans creating smaller government and taxing less and spending less still persists after Reagan and Bush the Lesser. Although, I guess these two actually didn't tax, they just borrowed and spent so that the next guy, or next generation, would have to pay for it. The reality is Republican presidents have spent more money beginning with Reagan: http://www.libertyunbound.com/archive/2004_11/bradford-spending.html. Sure, the Dems are part of the problem, but Republicans blame only Dems.

If the Repugs actually did spend less in reality all of the conservative talking heads who keep their audiences brainwashed (Rush, Shawn Hannity, etc...) would reference this actual data during EVERY broadcast. They don't have it, so they just go with that same old, same old anecdotal stuff knowing their audience will never ever do any research themselves to find any actual truth. Instead, when conservatives can actually be honest with themselves, they have to admit that Republicans really aren't all that much better when it comes to government size and spending: http://www.theconservativevoice.com/article/12478.html

Here's another good article on the history of the Republican party and how it doesn't really live up to the myth: http://www.lewrockwell.com/gregory/gregory40.html

As long as you're voting for either a Dem or Repug you're essentially voting for the same party. The choice is between the good cop or the bad cop. Considering the Republican's consistent willingness to mix religion and militarism I find them more despicable and dangerous.

I won't even go into the freedom-loving Republican party's obsession with keeping the Patriot Act imposed on the citizenry.

Fascism has arrived in America and it came just as predicted: wrapped in the flag, waving the cross, talking low taxes and preaching free markets. The bad news is it probably gets worse from here.

[C.J.Woolf]

As long as you're voting for either a Dem or Repug you're essentially voting for the same party.
Gotta quibble with you there. While both major parties are beholden to big business, they throw their bones in entirely different directions. The GOP throw their bones to neocons and theocons, and the Dems throw theirs more to women, minorities, and the middle class.


I could say the same about the Democrats and their pandering to poor families by offering up my tax dollars to encourage more breeding.
It's interesting where people direct their outrage.

"A banker can steal more money with a pen than a hundred bank robbers can steal with guns." Welfare cheats are pretty low on my outrage list simply because they do less damage.

[MountainHiker]

Gotta quibble with you there. While both major parties are beholden to big business, they throw their bones in entirely different directions. The GOP throw their bones to neocons and theocons, and the Dems throw theirs more to women, minorities, and the middle class.

I'll give you that. You are good to bounce my political ramblings off of as you help me clarify my thoughts. Thanks! You have good insights on this topic and I enjoy hearing them. Keep it up.

[Chunes]

C.J. Woolf got it right. They picked Palin to keep the religious nutcase base on board.

And white women.

[kendoiwan]

And white women.

I want to believe it so bad when all the talking heads say "if they think women are just going to vote for her because she's a women they better think again"... I'm praying that 20 point bounce is temporary...

[Luminith]

Just wait until the VP debates, I'll start worrying if it remains the same 20 point bounce after that.

[Limey]

I want to believe it so bad when all the talking heads say "if they think women are just going to vote for her because she's a women they better think again"... I'm praying that 20 point bounce is temporary...

Just because he chose a sistah, over a "naice" white girl, I don't see why the Chapelle-esque "black team" see it all necessary to go ahead and just claim his membership as a foregone conclusion. The way I see it, the man is a bonafide Caucafro, free-agent, whose mother liked mayonnaise.

[zero]

Just because he chose a sistah, over a "naice" white girl, I don't see why the Chapelle-esque "black team" see it all necessary to go ahead and just claim his membership as a foregone conclusion. The way I see it, the man is a bonafide Caucafro, free-agent, whose mother liked mayonnaise.

OMG, there are so many kick -ass references in that...roflmao

[kendoiwan]

Just because he chose a sistah, over a "naice" white girl, I don't see why the Chapelle-esque "black team" see it all necessary to go ahead and just claim his membership as a foregone conclusion. The way I see it, the man is a bonafide Caucafro, free-agent, whose mother liked mayonnaise.

I have not a clue what you're talking about:mellow:

[zero]

^^these are references to the Chappelle show and undercover brother...there may be more in there...

[kendoiwan]

^^these are references to the Chappelle show and undercover brother...there may be more in there...

Yeah, I get that, but... *sighs* I hope he's just kidding me is all I have to say about that.

[Limey]

I have not a clue what you're talking about:mellow:


The Asian team were good enough to cede Tiger Woods in trade for the Wu-Tang clan. But I don't see whitey giving up Obama so easily, we're going to need Oprah or the deal is off.

[kendoiwan]

If you get Obama, you take back Mariah Carey, Bill Clinton, give up Colin Powell, Condi Rice, Justin Timberlake and Robin Thicke and we'll think about it... Maybe

[Limey]

If you get Obama, you take back Mariah Carey, Bill Clinton, give up Colin Powell, Condi Rice, Justin Timberlake and Robin Thicke and we'll think about it... Maybe

Shit, that's a hard bargain - you are a worthy negotiator and delegate, sir.

EDIT: we cannot call a deal as long as Omarosa, of apprentice fame is still in play.

[kendoiwan]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080909/ap_on_el_pr/palin_playing_it_safe


But none of the candidates in this race has been so shielded from the media, so protected from any spontaneous situation, and Palin's unvarying remarks give the impression that she and her message are being tightly controlled. As before her convention speech, McCain's campaign is briefing Palin for her first TV interview

[kendoiwan]

Shit, that's a hard bargain - you are a worthy negotiator and delegate, sir.

EDIT: we cannot call a deal as long as Omarosa, of apprentice fame is still in play.

Who the hell wants her?:sadbanana:

[Limey]

Who the hell wants her?:sadbanana:

Stalemate it is, then.

[Nunki]

Reuters is reporting that there has been a 20-point shift toward McCain among white women. I wish I could say I'm shocked that Americans are dumb enough to vote for someone because they've got boobs.

[Limey]

Wow, I just saw a McCain ad claiming that Palin put a stop to the Bridge to nowhere in Alaska - while she did stop the bridge build at the last minute, the truth is that she campaigned in favor of that bridge and only flip-flopped when the greater public of the US saw it as Alaska taking more than it gave and the negative pork barreling image of a bridge to nowhere.

The federal government paid for the Bridge which isn't going to be built and they haven't given the money back. The money, before it was paid, in-fact was earmarked for rebuilding after Katrina and the Senator for Alaska threatened to quit if it was diverted.

The island to be serviced only has 50 inhabitants and there's an airport - they should just buy them all a nice boat each and return the change - better still, pay to relocate them all and build a new airport on the connected state mainland.

Connecting the bridge stop with preventing waste is a real liberal use of the truth.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/4/4b/Palin_nowhere.jpg

[C.J.Woolf]

Actually, I don't hold Palin's pork lobbying against her. She was looking out for her constituents, as were Alaska's members of Congress. Everyone in the US plays that game; the Alaskans are just the best at it. Until the rules are changed for everybody, anybody who doesn't pork-barrel loses out relative to those who do. Don't hate the player, hate the game, as the saying goes.

Now, lying about being against the Bridge to Nowhere? Dumb.

[Nunki]

I'm having a little difficulty understanding how Obama (supposedly) comparing Palin to a pig is sexism. I never knew that calling someone a name that has nothing to do with gender is nevertheless an insult to the target's sex. By that standard, everyone on the planet is a sexist. Or maybe we can be realistic and draw the line at, oh I don't know, maybe refusal to support equal pay, a la McCain?

[kendoiwan]

She can call herself a pitbull but he can't call her a pig...

[Ferrus]

I'm having a little difficulty understanding how Obama (supposedly) comparing Palin to a pig is sexism. I never knew that calling someone a name that has nothing to do with gender is nevertheless an insult to the target's sex. By that standard, everyone on the planet is a sexist. Or maybe we can be realistic and draw the line at, oh I don't know, maybe refusal to support equal pay, a la McCain?
You mean Palin would get paid less than Cheney?

[C.J.Woolf]

I'm having a little difficulty understanding how Obama (supposedly) comparing Palin to a pig is sexism.
ARRRGGGGHHH! He didn't compare Palin to a pig. McCain's campaign did. They're playing the media again.


Yesterday, [Obama] appeared to be attempting to counter his rivals "claim to the mantle of change when he said of Republican policy: “You can put lipstick on a pig, but it's still a pig."
Note: Republican policy, not Palin. You fell into the trap of taking McCain's distortion at face value instead of reading the actual quote and its context. Look for this a llot in the next two months, because McCain and Palin have little else to run on.

[avolkiteshvara]

but i've got vpilf fever!


Nice(Borat voice)!

[Arouet]

A few days before Obama was to name his running mate, I sent the following email to six or seven people: "It HAS to be Hillary--and that will PROBABLY be checkmate. If it's anyone else, he's a Fool."

Due primarily to the economy (and especially in light of the current volatility of the stock market), this is probably still Obama's election to lose. That said, I stand by my original statement.

I'm trying to say the following as diplomatically as possible, but I must confess I'm finding it difficult, so let me put it this way, from someone who was until recently a registered Democrat and who is now an Independent: Some of you are far too emotional to be helpful political consultants because you lack the necessary detachment to enjoy this as one might a chess game (though with higher stakes, admittedly). Some of you--again, I emphasize SOME of you--seem quite incapable of OBJECTIVELY ANALYZING STRATEGY.

Now, would Palin have been MY first choice, personally? No. Long before this interminable process even got under way, I already had my president, Rudy Giuliani. (You see, I'm as bad a Republican as I was a Democrat. I'm rather liberal on a couple of social issues, and no one detests Bush more than I do; it's just not possible. On the other hand, though I doubt that McCain's social policies will be SIGNIFICANTLY different from Bush's OR Obama's--if you doubt this, I suggest you take a closer look at Bush (for instance, on illegal immigration, to cite but one example)--all the evidence suggests to me that McCain MIGHT be more fiscally responsible than either Bush or Obama. And because, unlike so many of you, I'm "hard-wired" to take very seriously the threat of Islamic Fascism--as well as Putin's recent flexing of biceps, a test of American and European resolve--I couldn't possibly vote for Obama, whose naivete on the international front I regard frankly as somewhat puzzling, especially given his intelligence. My fear, which he does little to assuage, is simply that he has NOT THOUGHT THROUGH his position on too many of these issues).

Summing up (I'm laughing here, sensing a digession's coming) before moving on to Palin: Obama seems like a decent man; but this is a choice between The Old Soldier and The Professor--and back in the 1990's or somewhere down the road, Obama might be fine--but this is NOT that Moment in History. It must sound counter-intuitive to many of you, I know; but if you look back, it's rarely The Old Soldier who gets us into wars. It's the man who lacks experience; and who, perhaps for this reason, lacks confidence; and who's trying to prove to the world (or perhaps to his father, in the case of Bush--although another man might be trying to prove something to his wife) that he's a Tough Guy.

McCain doesn't have to prove to ANYBODY that he's a "tough guy." And though this is mere speculation, I'm not convinced he's being COMPLETELY honest when he now says that he would have gone into Iraq--but he's "stucK," politically--and has already bucked his party too many times, and lost. (It wasn't many years ago, as some of you may know, that rumor was he was considering becoming a Democrat. One thing I know for sure, though: He antagonized his entire party by saying, practically from the outset, that we needed more boots on the ground in Iraq--and militarily, he was correct.)

I'm still not optimistic about achieving anything resembling a western-style democracy there. I think we're essentially "managing the damage." But if we can successfully stabilze the situation in Iraq and disrupt terrorist operations nearby and elsewhere, History may judge this recent adventure quite differently from the way in which many of you currently see it. Because like it or not, it is History that decides--not the media--not you--not me.

Now, finally, re Palin: All right, we've established that you don't like her; in fact, you hate her--but this is not the question, is it. We understand that you heard her acceptance speech and became apoplectic--and for good reason: This "gal" is from the Heartland of America. Her frontier twang; her PTA hair; her facial expressions and physical gestures: All attest to it. And her sense of comedic timing was absolutely perfect. As the line went in the New York Post: "Barack Obama, meet your nightmare."

Granted, she has yet to be tested, so there's still Hope. But if you underestimate her, you're as big a Fool as Obama was for not selecting Hillary (one of those times he probably should've ignored Michelle's advice). And btw, you really must listen to Hillary on the campagin trail; she's refrained completely from attacking Palin in any serious way. And my guess, which is hardly original, is that she and Bill will confine their campaign comments to "Party" and "platform" and not to "character" or "candidates' qualifications," and for good reason. She wasn't even considered for Veep--and wasn't exactly treated graciously by the Obama campaign--and she knows her best shot is four years from now because whoever wins this time is going to inherit a veritable shitload of problems. And if Obama loses, Hillary will be more than happy to take on either Mac OR Sarah.

Palin may stumble here and there, and she must guard against strident religiosity. But make no mistake about it: This is one cool customer. I may be projecting--or mistaken--but I don't think so. She has a trait we share--a certain "detachment from the proceedings." I see this in her, and it's useful in a debate: She has No Fear.

And though it may not be enough for McCain to win the election--as said, the economy, when it's in trouble, is ALWAYS issue number one--anyone who thinks, after listening to her acceptance speech, that she was not a strategically brilliant pick needs a course in Politcs 101. How can anyone not understand that she changed completely the "narrative" of this campaign.

Fact: When you talk about her lack of experience, you now merely invite unconscious comparisons between McCain's and Obama's. (Strike One)

Fact: In choosing Biden, Obama tacitly acknowledged that the perception of him as lacking in experience, especially in foregin policy, is true. (Strike Two.)

Fact: The "Candidate of Change" went with another Old White Guy and Washington Insider--and didn't even vet the ONE WOMAN who, in my opinion, kicked his butt in every debate that wasn't a pre-arranged, party-healing love-fest. (I'm sorry, but Really Stupid. Sometimes, you should listen to your wife--but not when she's angry, unless it's at you.)

Fact: Like it or not, the Democrats have been on the wrong side of The Country when it comes to "Drill Here, Drill Now"--and Palin's from the very state that allows them to keep this issue and its relation to the economy front and center in the next sixty days.

Fact: The more you keep insinuating that she's White Trash, the more you keep reminding Typical American Voters that they, too--unlike Barack and Michelle--did NOT attend Ivy League Schools. You remind the average voter that the Democratic Party is run by people who consider themselves Intellectually Superior to EVERYBODY.

Fact: When you scream about her hunting and her membership in the NRA, you simply remind voters that Democrats regard all Americans who own guns as small-town, small-minded idiots, who, "out of bitterness, cling to their guns and religion." (News Flash: I graduated from a college one of the Obamas attended. It happens that I'm not a hunter, and I have issues with the NRA. I also keep a loaded Glock in the drawer of my night-stand, and I'm a light sleeper: Make My Day.)

Fact: When you belittle her Church and Religion (never smart, imo; you'd be safer doing this with a Mormon)--and btw, if you're a Dem, you should really take a glance sometime at the inaugural address of John F. Kennedy--you only invite comparisons with Reverend Wright. (Did you know that black kids can't learn from books? Really, you should read this man. He's truly one of the Great Minds of our time. Great guy to pick as your Father Figure--and there are others like him, which fact Bill Cosby and other courageous and educated black men and women would probably tell you. And Booker T. Washington knew about them, too--about these "civic leaders" and "preachers" who are really nothing more than Race Hustlers; who tell their congregations that all the problems of Urban America are caused by White Racism. Some of these characters may actually be living in a Time-Warp, circa 1967--but one thing on which you can always rely: By telling their followers pleasing falshoods and keeping them locked up in 1967, they sell their own people down the river--and then drive home to their mansions in their limousines.

Fact: The addition of Biden just might make this The Most Arrogant Ticket in the History of Democratic Party.

And by the way--and I don't want to embarrass anyone by naming names; it's not my style; and you were (I think) only repeating comments you'd heard from the COMPLETELY objective cognoscenti of the mainstream media:

Palin's recent comment about the Fred & Fan bail-out was not a gaffe. If you actually read her statement, she in no way implied that she these were funded by taxpayers. But there is absolutely no question that this bail-out is going to COST us taxpayers a FORTUNE.

I have a strategy for hitting Palin, btw--but I've absolutely no intention of sharing it with you.

I'm addressing only a few of you here, but let me offer you some advice re politics: It's a Great Big World out there. And some of you will find, as you grow older, that there are very decent, intelligent people who disagree with you. We have, we'll have to say, "different priorities"--and we're not all quite "wired" the same way, are we.

For reasons too complicated to explain, I, too, fear the State--and our Government. And I don't need a primer in political propaganda; I could write one.

But I've seen the face of religious fundamentalism in my own country, and I ask myself: What if such people had absolutely nothing...believed that The Great Satan (described in their holiest book as "The Great Tempter"--which we are, Money & Sex) was running the World and had to be destroyed?

What would the "face of religious fundamentalism" actually look like in a culture that, unlike our own, had never even been TOUCHED by The Enlightenment? (And please do not confuse Islam--between roughly 800 and 900 CE--with The Enlightenment.)

The Arabs and Iranians are a brilliant people--from cultures whose historical achievements are most impressive. But my reading has convinced me that there are in this world somewhere between 75,000 and 150,000 people willing to blow themselves up IN ORDER TO KILL US. Bush is an idiot; check, we got that. But Obama's laughing remark that "Iran can't hurt us because Iran is just a tiny little country" is one of several statements he's made that I regard as so patently absurd, I wouldn't even try to explain what he was thinking. To tell you the absolute truth, it surprises me; he's obviously an intelligent man; I therefore must conclude that he and I simply have a very DIFFERENT view of The World.

I, too, fear the State. I have "problems with Authority." It's in my Past--and in my DNA. (If my wife were reading this, her big eyes would get even bigger and she'd say: "'Problems with Authority'? Is THAT what you call it?! Oh my GOD!!!)

But there are Moments in History when we must decide: Which and Whom do we fear more--our own government with its Puppet-Presidents--or the threat that lies we hope beyond (and not within) our borders--in the minds of suicide bombers, who are eager to meet their virgins--young men who sit around describing their virgins in graphic detail.

Fine: Sit down and talk to them; I am for this. But trust me, this will not be a long discussion.

You must choose...between the perceived threat from religious fundamentalism in our country--and your perception of the threat religious fundamentalism poses from elsewhere.

I am, at heart, a New Yorker. Maybe, for me, that made my decision much easier.

We just see The World very differently--that's all.

[Nunki]

I didn't fall into the trap; that's why I used the word "supposedly." The reason I didn't go into the question of whether McCain/Palin have distorted the quote (which I think they have) is because that wasn't directly related to my point. My point was simply to ridicule the claim that name-calling automatically constitutes sexism.


You mean Palin would get paid less than Cheney? I'm referring to the fact that McCain was opposed to a bill that would have required women to receive equal pay for equal work. I don't know what McCain's intent with that position was, but what I do know is that it looks a great deal more like sexism than talk about lipstick on pigs.

On a related note, I just heard a video clip of McCain using the exact same phrase in reference to Hillary Clinton's position on health care. If I were the Democrats, I'd be distributing that clip left and right. It makes McCain look more than a little like a cheap, dishonest hypocrite.

[C.J.Woolf]

I didn't fall into the trap; that's why I used the word "supposedly." The reason I didn't go into the question of whether McCain/Palin have distorted the quote (which I think they have) is because that wasn't directly related to my point. My point was simply to ridicule the claim that name-calling automatically constitutes sexism.
Please pardon my misunderstanding.

[meanlittlechimp]

Sure are a lot of INTP Lefties. I'm a moderate, but I just don't see the appeal of big government, huge social programs and high taxes.

Unless I'm completely misinformed. :shrug:

I think you're misinformed.

Palin's Alaska has the highest tax rate and the highest spend rate in the US. Clinton left a balanced budget and the Republicans have caused the highest debt since WWII and the largest income distribution gap since the Great Depression.

The republicans are far from small government. Just the interest rate on the debt far outstrips our combined expenditures on education AND welfare. Fixating on welfare programs that make a tiny fraction of government spending is more than a bit myopic, in the big picture.

MBNA re-wrote the lending laws (which helped cause the sub-prime fiasco) after Bush got elected (because they were by far his biggest campaign contributor). You didn't hear me wrong, MBNA lobbyists actually WROTE the new amendments as soon Bush was in the White house.

We just bailed out Freddie Mac/Fannie May etc, making them an extension of the US government. Nationalizing the largest financial institutions in the country is NOT small government. You don't get small government by borrowing massive amounts of money in a faltering economy to start unjust wars, we can't afford.

[C.J.Woolf]

Palin's Alaska has the highest tax rate...
Much as I like to bash Republicans, I have to say that Alaska is a unique case. Alaska has the highest tax rate, but those taxes are paid by oil companies. Alaskans like their high taxes because they don't have to pay them. In fact, they are given a cut of the oil tax money. Think of high taxes on hotels and rental cars, which are popular because they mostly fall on out-of-staters, multiply them, and you get the oil tax. Alaska is America's Saudi Arabia.

Most red states have relatively low state taxes, and they have inadequate public services to go with them.

[SensEye]

What disturbes me is ever since the Palin circus began, how much discussion has there been about Bush's (and by extention the Republican) record over the last 8 years?

I know, it's crazy talk, but one would think it might be relevant when considering who to elect.

[Limey]

What disturbes me is ever since the Palin circus began, how much discussion has there been about Bush's (and by extention the Repiblican) record over the last 8 years?

I know, it's crazy talk, but one would think it might be relevant when considering who to elect.

I noticed that. I think the McCain camp have a collective set of balls on them to talk of "change".

[Ferrus]

I know, it's crazy talk, but one would think it might be relevant when considering who to elect.
This is why you should elect parties, not personalities. Just saying.

[C.J.Woolf]

This is why you should elect parties, not personalities. Just saying.
Actually, Republicans did run as a party for years. It's what got them into power. They can't do that so much now that their reputation is shit, but they still have a reliable base who vote for the party.

[Ferrus]

Actually, Republicans did run as a party for years. It's what got them into power. They can't do that so much now that their reputation is shit, but they still have a reliable base who vote for the party.
True, perhaps my point was more the comparison of the presidential system as opposed to the more parliamentary systems that are used in most countries in Europe with the exception of France.

[meanlittlechimp]

What disturbes me is ever since the Palin circus began, how much discussion has there been about Bush's (and by extention the Repiblican) record over the last 8 years?

I know, it's crazy talk, but one would think it might be relevant when considering who to elect.

What disturbs me is that when this bible thumping twat got announced; she helped swing the popular vote over to McCain and put slightly them ahead in the polls.

Christ my country is retarded.

[MountainHiker]

Christ my country is retarded.

Retarded for certain! And in a scary sort of way too. They've been so subjected to marketing and commercialism that politics is just one more TV show like American Idol:


Oh, Gidget Palin sounded really bad, but she wore a dress that showed off her rack nicely. I hope Simon isn't too hard on her! Does he know she hunts moose too? And has a crapload of kids? Oh...pins and needles awaiting Simon's decision!!!

You mix together low IQs, Christianity (is that redundant?), guns, NASCAR, racism, and a general sense of being better than everybody else in the world, and you get middle America. Yee Haw!

Not to sound arrogant, but I accepted most of my fellow countrymen as morons years ago. The problem is they keep driving on my roads like idiots, get in my way everywhere, pass dumbass laws I have to abide by and their leaders are killing us with debt! There really is no justice in this world, and that's one reason I don't believe in a god. There's no way a so much more superior intellect would allow these morons to go forward. He would have stopped this experiment long ago and hid in shame from the other Gods. "Oh, my humanity experiment? Yeah, it went bad and I had to kill off the whole petri dish. I would advise against trying that experiment yourself, it'll just turn to shit." /rant

Sorry got a little carried away there. Gross stupidity does that to me.

[C.J.Woolf]

True, perhaps my point was more the comparison of the presidential system as opposed to the more parliamentary systems that are used in most countries in Europe with the exception of France.
Yes, I do envy the parliamentary system. But it isn't just the presidential system that makes presidential elections the shallow popularity contests they are today. It's also the rise of the primary system and the decline of the power of the party leadership to choose the nominees. Those notorious smoke-filled rooms weren't all bad.

[Anonymous]

What annoys me almost as much as Palin herself is people mispronouncing her name. I even had someone calling her "Lapin" for a while there. I shit you not.

[C.J.Woolf]

What annoys me almost as much as Palin herself is people mispronouncing her name.
In a small way, Monty Python made me a better citizen by teaching me how to pronounce Palin's name long before she went into politics.

[ryan_m_parr]

What annoys me almost as much as Palin herself is people mispronouncing her name. I even had someone calling her "Lapin" for a while there. I shit you not.

Maybe they believed she suffers from lycanthropy, or some lupine superstition. We are heading for the Dark Ages, after all.

[jittus rye]

clinton gets a free pass due to tech bubble.

[jittus rye]

She can call herself a pitbull but he can't call her a pig...

although the full clip of obama suggests he wasn't talking about her, hypothetically if he was you might cry sexism due to the fact that he used lipstick in a sense that marginalized women whereas palin used it in a sense that embraced womanhood. Animals are tangential.

[Shoot!]

Uhm. About the 'lipstick on a pig' thing. Supposedly it's an old euphemism for trying to make something pretty shitty seem more attractive (Case in point, putting Palin on the ticket). He was comparing McCain's campaign stragety/fundamentals to a pig, not Palin.

[jittus rye]

Uhm. About the 'lipstick on a pig' thing. Supposedly it's an old euphemism for trying to make something pretty shitty seem more attractive (Case in point, putting Palin on the ticket). He was comparing McCain's campaign stragety/fundamentals to a pig, not Palin.

hence the hypothetical

[Limey]

He should have said, "Mutton dressed as Lamb", "A pig in a poke", "Couldn't stop a pig in an alley", "loose like sleeve of wizard (5!)".

[Zephyrus055]

A few days before Obama was to name his running mate, I sent the following email to six or seven people: "It HAS to be Hillary--and that will PROBABLY be checkmate. If it's anyone else, he's a Fool."

You sir, are smart.

However, Hillary was not a wise choice. She's a political realist and is everything Obama is not, and moreover she is his arch enemy. Obama's books even bash the Clintons for their political cunning.

If Obama selected Hillary, he would have threatened his platform of "change" completely. Furthermore, Obama was supported by several factions of the Democratic party who were opposed to the power of the Clintons, who wanted to see their power reduced. There's no way he would have selected her given the polarization and his supporters.

[Arouet]

I recognize their "strategic motivation" for having done so, but I don't care much for the McCain campaign's having run with this--if it was in fact the campaign proper that's responsible; I detest equally all attempts to play the "race card" or the "gender card." This is what Democrats do, and why they lost me. Whenever you disagree with them, you're a "racist," a "sexist," a "xenophobe." The purpose of such comments is to end debate, not further it. I suppose this must work with some people; for various reasons, I couldn't possibly care less. (I was called so many names--and by adults, at such a young age--even by my own father--"communist," "traitor," etc.--I developed a kind of immunity. --I did once threaten a cop, though. Pretty funny; I guess he took me for a pacifist.)

Obama strikes me as a gentleman, and I therefore take him at his word that he was not referring to Palin--and I didn't hear it that way at all. Unfortunately, however, when you hear the full audio, you realize that the crowd to which he was speaking took it as EXACTLY that. You hear mostly women shrieking with extended glee (which does not, unfortunately for Obama, reflect particualrly well on his supporters). It's tragicomic that we've reached the stage of "feminist consciousness" in which a large number of women would actually go wild in the mistaken belief that their Knight in Shining Armor had referred to another woman as a pig.

The strategy was probably nothing more than a warning shot across the bow of the Obama camp: "You're not playing with Hillary THIS time. WE don't NEED your votes. And if you keep playing the Race Card, we'll play the Gender Card--so cut the bullshit."

But either way, I still don't like it. Anything, no matter how P.C., that stifles Free Speech and debate is bad for The Republic.

[Zephyrus055]

I recognize their "strategic motivation" for having done so, but I don't care much for the McCain campaign's having run with this--if it was in fact the campaign proper that's responsible; I detest equally all attempts to play the "race card" or the "gender card." This is what Democrats do, and why they lost me. Whenever you disagree with them, you're a "racist," a "sexist," a "xenophobe." The purpose of such comments is to end debate, not further it. I suppose this must work with some people; for various reasons, I couldn't possibly care less. (I was called so many names--and by adults, at such a young age--even by my own father--"communist," "traitor," etc.--I developed a kind of immunity. --I did once threaten a cop, though. Pretty funny; I guess he took me for a pacifist.)
Yeah, it is annoying how people throw words around like that just to ridicule, while not trying to understand another's view point.


But either way, I still don't like it. Anything, no matter how P.C., that stifles Free Speech and debate is bad for The Republic.
Very true. I think it goes to show how far we have to go as a society before we can enjoy a kind of political freedom independent from a plutocracy.

[jittus rye]

I wouldn't put it past Obama to use this reference intentionally in a fashion where it makes sense in context but could be interpreted as anti-Palin. This gives the media something else to talk about that is less damaging to Obama due to it being more trivial than other things, and because he can easily deny it due to the context.

[C.J.Woolf]

I wouldn't put it past Obama to use this reference intentionally in a fashion where it makes sense in context but could be interpreted as anti-Palin. This gives the media something else to talk about that is less damaging to Obama due to it being more trivial than other things, and because he can easily deny it due to the context.
I can believe this because I see Obama needling McCain all the time, trying to provoke an overreaction from that touchy and hot-tempered man. On the other hand, the Obama campaign's primary message is "McCain = more of the same," and McCain manufacturing multiple trivial but different controversies distracts from it. No sense in helping McCain do that.

I think if Obama does it right, voters will have a stong sense of deja vu from 2004 (and maybe 2000 as well), and we all know how well that turned out.

P.S. One think I really like about Obama is his ability to say "Fuck you" with a smile. We need more Democrats like that.

[Ferrus]

I think if Obama does it right, voters will have a stong sense of deja vu from 2004 (and maybe 2000 as well), and we all know how well that turned out.
Although a good percentage of the American population clearly don't.

[C.J.Woolf]

Although a good percentage of the American population clearly don't.
Really. In a rational country any Republican would lose to any Democrat by a landslide, but that's the partisan in me talking. (I'm realistic enough to know that Democrats aren't together enough to win elections -- yet; rather, Republicans lose them.)

But the 2006 Congressional elections give me hope. A lot of Democrats won in Republiican-leaning districts (including ex-majority whip Tom DeLay's), and the media were taken by surprise. Democrats have won most of the special elections since then, including the one for ex-Speaker of the House Dennis Hastert's seat. There is a growing silent majority that is pissed off at Republican corruption and misrule, even in "red" America. Obama is in effect acting as a nationwide community organizer, setting up field offices and hiring staff to get voters registered and to the polls. Party identification is trending more and more Democratic, and I've a hunch the opinion polls are lagging on this. Obama is making a lot of red states competitive this year, and he might pick off a few right under McCain's and the media's nose. If he does this and defends all the states Kerry won in 2004, he wins. If he flips Florida and Ohio besides, he wins big.

[Ferrus]

I think now as the final lap is being run it will come down to Obama's ability to appeal to the people you spoke of, against McCain using Palin's capacity to fish out the religious right to vote en masse.

[Arouet]

Limey: funny. Zephyrus: I've read you before--always with interest, and this time, as well.

Jittus Rye: Interesting; I'll have to think about that. And I suppose that any such thoughts would emerge from my (idiosyncratic?) "Obama Context," which is as follows:

To be completely honest (which for me is almost always a mistake), whenever I hear Obama, I envision that Child who'd been abandoned not only by two fathers but by his mother. I am therefore left to conclude that his need for adoration must be very great--perhaps too great--and that he so basks in the loving adoration of the mob, he bathes (and is thus baptized) by the sparkling waters of his own rhetoric (which sometimes lifts him and then goes over his head). This would explain, not only how an otherwise intelligent man could so often lose track of what it is he's actually saying, but also provides a context for what is really his greatest gift: He's extremely adept at telling every group EXACTLY what it wants to hear, and very convincingly. He is a "natural" and even "pathological" liar because his need for love is so great, AT THAT MOMENT, he truly BELIEVES whatever it is he's saying.

All this is of course Just Bullshit to the Twenty- and Thirty-Something secular humanists (who've now been Saved), but isn't this part of Obama's great appeal to the Unconscious, as well as to the young and to those Idealistic Feeling Types? Through Obama, we Atone for our Original (American) Sin--except that he's half white and has no Slave Blood whatsoever. And will therefore perhaps spend part of his life trying to prove--to Michelle?--that he's "black"?

I am persuaded that a significant number of Obama supporters are not in fact voting for "a President" at all: "WE are the ONES we've been WAITING for!"

If this isn't messianic, I don't know what is. You know, "We are One in Christ." Obama is Living Proof that Black & White can live together in Peace & Harmony--as they do in Him.

And he IS what ALL of us want for so many of these young "fatherless" black guys (as well as for the thugs) to grow up and to BE: an educated and decent man; a man who loves and RESPECTS the mother of his children--and who loves his children enough to live in the same house with them.

In a way, I feel sorry for Obama because he is a flawed and tragic figure. But I am troubled because I can't be sure how deeply these flaws have been cut. This was a Man in Search of a Father: A mixed-race guy--with a WHITE MOTHER--went looking for a Father--and found REVEREND WRIGHT?! And yet, somehow, The Mesmerized cannot connect the dots.

Regarding the Sin of Slavery or of bigotry, I have none for which to atone. I am electing neither a Messiah nor a Role Model for Wayward Black Youth. (Form study-groups; go to the library; take home books.)

I am electing not merely (merely!) the President of the United States of America--and not merely (!) the commander in chief (of our armed forces)--I am electing the Leader of the Free World.

I wonder how many people over forty...could actually look me straight in the eye and tell me that they REALLY believe that Barack Obama is ready.

They won't; most glance away. They'll talk about Bush, McBush, Iraq, gay rights, and Choice. And this is your right, of course; I would not trivialize ANY of these concerns.

But once you've hit forty--which many of you cannot now even imagine!--most of you wouldn't even be able to look me in the eye and tell me that you really believe Barack Obama is ready to be President.

Listen, I'm not saying that McCain will be the next Harry S. Truman.

(Who?)

[kendoiwan]

:shock: Everyone is entitled to their own beliefs I suppose...

[kendoiwan]

I wonder how many people over forty...could actually look me straight in the eye and tell me that they REALLY believe that Barack Obama is ready.

They won't; most glance away. They'll talk about Bush, McBush, Iraq, gay rights, and Choice. And this is your right, of course; I would not trivialize ANY of these concerns.

But once you've hit forty--which many of you cannot now even imagine!--most of you wouldn't even be able to look me in the eye and tell me that you really believe Barack Obama is ready to be President.

Listen, I'm not saying that McCain will be the next Harry S. Truman.

(Who?)

I just watched Palins interview... Who are you looking in the eye and telling you think SHE's ready? She believes she is. (Funny how much of a non-issue this would be if McCain weren't ancient...)

[Limey]

I thought that defer to Lincoln on the Religious fundie Iraq speech backtrack was pretty amusing, she even started using the interviewer's name (plead)

God has a plan

My first born FIRST BORN!
(if she loved him so much, she wouldn't have named him after a snowmobile component).

[kendoiwan]

I thought that defer to Lincoln on the Religious fundie Iraq speech backtrack was pretty amusing, she even started using the interviewer's name (plead)

God has a plan

My first born FIRST BORN!
(if she loved him so much, she wouldn't have named him after a snowmobile component).

I guess this is were I'm supposed to click on the rep button instead of just doing this:

:rofl:

[manza]

But once you've hit forty--which many of you cannot now even imagine!--most of you wouldn't even be able to look me in the eye and tell me that you really believe Barack Obama is ready to be President.

And once you hit seventy, you will be too busy worrying about incontinence and trying to remember to take your Alzheimer's meds to look ME in the eye and tell ME that you really believe John McCain is capable of being president. If you've got enough teeth left to spit the words out, that is.

And once he's dead, the cunt's in the office. She's even younger than Obama.

[C.J.Woolf]

I wonder how many people over forty...could actually look me straight in the eye and tell me that they REALLY believe that Barack Obama is ready.
I am one year older than Obama. I will look you in the eye and tell you that he is the best candidate left in this race, and that is all that matters now. McCain would continue running the country into a ditch.

Question: In 2000, did you do a similar amateur psychoanalysis of George W. Bush (aka Oedipus Tex) and discount him like you discount Obama? If you didn't, then your words carry a lot less weight with me.

[Thevenin]

I choose the Harvard Law Review alum over the one who was close to the bottom of his class at Annapolis. Add Palin and the choice is even clearer.

Hasn't the moron--I mean Bush--already shown us the folly and failure of an ignorant and stupid President?

[MountainHiker]

Question: In 2000, did you do a similar amateur psychoanalysis of George W. Bush (aka Oedipus Tex) and discount him like you discount Obama? If you didn't, then your words carry a lot less weight with me.

That's the same question I ask the Bushites when they bring up experience. Funny how it really matters all of the sudden. Their lame argument comes back something like: "in case you missed it, we live in a post 911 world." Yes, and we live in that world because your idiot was running the show at the time. Well, at least Cheney was as behind the scenes. (and yes I've followed 911 truth for years now but I'm just trying to make a succinct point here...can he do it?)

As for experience itself, let's take a look at McCain's experience. He seems to have quite a bit of average to below average accomplishments for someone in his social strata. Yeah, okay, he sat in a POW prison for a few years. I've yet to understand why this in itself provides a superior edge. He's been a lackluster senator. While I haven't poured over his voting record, he seems to be a standard issue company man for the Republicans so this whole maverick persona he's trying to sell just makes me want to puke.

While I'm not exactly thrilled about Obama, there's no question in my mind that he's the lesser of the evils. After Bush I'd vote for a horse, a cow, a chicken over a republican.

[kendoiwan]

So all morning they've been replaying the interview right, and the more I here that woman talk the more I expect her to say "dontcha know" at the end of her sentences!!!! Futhermore I recall just two weeks ago McCain stressing there is no place for "on the job training", she answers questions like a beauty queen bullshitting her way through a job interview!!!!! :rant:

Tell me this is all a bad dream, this CAN'T be happening!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[RottenApple]

Tell me this is all a bad dream, this CAN'T be happening!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

it is .... and they're winning.

The rest of the world is going to collectively give up on your country if they get this.

funny aside : my girlfriend says that McCain and Palin remind her of Chucky and the Bride of Chucky.

[kendoiwan]

it is .... and they're winning.

The rest of the world is going to collectively give up on your country if they get this.

funny aside : my girlfriend says that McCain and Palin remind her of Chucky and the Bride of Chucky.

The rest of the world? I'M going to give up on my country if they get this, dontcha know.:mellow:

"They're our next door neighbors, and we can actually SEE Russia from Alaska"

So what if it's some buttfuck Island that no one on either side occupies. That's like the mayor of Detriot running for president and using this line for his foreign policy cred: "We can actually SEE Cananda from Detriot" :stupid: :stupid: :stupid: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead:

[RottenApple]

The rest of the world? I'M going to give up on my country if they get this, dontcha know.:mellow:

"They're our next door neighbors, and we can actually SEE Russia from Alaska"

So what if it's some buttfuck Island that no one on either side occupies. That's like the mayor of Detriot running for president and using this line for his foreign policy cred: "We can actually SEE Cananda from Detriot" :stupid: :stupid: :stupid: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead:

ha ha... I feel for you man.

Take comfort in the fact that the most profound effect of this outcome will be felt by people outside of your country. You'll be fine.

My prediction is that McCain's election will set the dominoes in motion to cause WWIII. .... or something fairly similar.

[kendoiwan]

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/12/opinion/12krugman.html?th&emc=th


But I can’t think of any precedent, at least in America, for the blizzard of lies since the Republican convention. The Bush campaign’s lies in 2000 were artful — you needed some grasp of arithmetic to realize that you were being conned. This year, however, the McCain campaign keeps making assertions that anyone with an Internet connection can disprove in a minute, and repeating these assertions over and over again.

If I say it enough times it MUST be true!

[C.J.Woolf]

"They're our next door neighbors, and we can actually SEE Russia from Alaska"
I get a lot less agitated when I stop paying attention to what they say -- that is to say, the content of what they say -- because it's all variations on "The dog ate my homework" or "Look! The neighbor's roof is on fire!" They say whatever they think will get them out their current trouble.

Good column by Krugman, by the way. He's about the only national pundit who was right about Bush from the beginning.

[kendoiwan]

I get a lot less agitated when I stop paying attention to what they say -- that is to say, the content of what they say -- because it's all variations on "The dog ate my homework" or "Look! The neighbor's roof is on fire!" They say whatever they think will get them out their current trouble.

Good column by Krugman, by the way. He's about the only national pundit who was right about Bush from the beginning.

I get that, that's not what bothers me. It's all the people who actually take it seriously!!!! :rant: You have to watch cspan one morning and listen to the people calling in who eat up every word of it. Like the drilling bullshit for instance. :banghead: :banghead: :banghead:

[C.J.Woolf]

I get that, that's not what bothers me. It's all the people who actually take it seriously!!!!
I hear ya.

I figure there are two kinds of people swallowing this. First, there are the dittohead lemmings who will follow the Republican leadership off a cliff. They're the clique, if you will. Second, there are those who go with who they think are the in-crowd. They're the clique-followers. They ride the bandwagon.

Both crowds are rather pathetic, but at least the second will flip the moment the Republcans cease to been seen as the in-crowd. Don't know when that will happen, though.

[kendoiwan]

I hear ya.

I figure there are two kinds of people swallowing this. First, there are the dittohead lemmings who will follow the Republican leadership off a cliff. They're the clique, if you will. Second, there are those who go with who they think are the in-crowd. They're the clique-followers. They ride the bandwagon.

Both crowds are rather pathetic, but at least the second will flip the moment the Republcans cease to been seen as the in-crowd. Don't know when that will happen, though.

And that's my problem, I actually expect people to weigh the facts and draw rational conculsions. Stupid I know...

[djm]

The rest of the world is going to collectively give up on your country if they get this.

Most of it already has.

[MountainHiker]

And that's my problem, I actually expect people to weigh the facts and draw rational conculsions. Stupid I know...

Yeah, I trip myself up with that one all the time too. I always forget that a lot of folks will make a decision based on if they wear a flag lapel pin, which sports team they might like, or if they can talk down to their level easily...y'all.

The one positive I can see of McCain winning is he can then clean up his buddy's mess. From what I've been able to glean, the only way this economy has been propped up is a compliant media, an ignorant populace and the PPT essentially nationalizing the markets behind the scenes. This house of cards won't last much longer and it would be fitting for it to land in McCain's lap. Although he'll probably do what Republicans do to stimulate the economy: start a war.

Have I mentioned how much I hate these guys?

http://www.thewashingtonnote.com/archives/mccain%20bush%20hug%20twn.jpg

[SensEye]

And that's my problem, I actually expect people to weigh the facts and draw rational conculsions. Stupid I know...I have the same problem. This election is driving me crazy, and I'm not even American.

Canadians are not all that much better when it comes to non-issue b.s. come election time, but the general attitude has always pretty much been, if you badly screw up during your term in office, it's "throw the bums out" and let the other guys try. If you really badly screw up, your party really gets decimated. This sends the one message politicians care about - power. If they mess up, they lose power, possibly for quite some time.

In my mind, the Bush administration is the worst ever in the history of America. I don't see how anyone could argue otherwise. It would serve the Republicans right if they were absolutely decimated in the upcoming election. Maybe they would think, hey, we better not run another idiot like Bush in the future, or let guys like Rove and Cheney pull the strings, it's bad for the health of the party.

But no! It looks very much like the Republican's might win, or at the very least, lose in a close call.

[JBHunt]

But no! It looks very much like the Republican's might win, or at the very least, lose in a close call.
Don't panic. Marty McFly knew that Goldie Wilson will one day be the mayor of Hill Valley.

[Ferrus]

I have the same problem. This election is driving me crazy, and I'm not even American.

Canadians are not all that much better when it comes to non-issue b.s. come election time, but the general attitude has always pretty much been, if you badly screw up during your term in office, it's "throw the bums out" and let the other guys try. If you really badly screw up, your party really gets decimated. This sends the one message politicians care about - power. If they mess up, they lose power, possibly for quite some time.

In my mind, the Bush administration is the worst ever in the history of America. I don't see how anyone could argue otherwise. It would serve the Republicans right if they were absolutely decimated in the upcoming election. Maybe they would think, hey, we better not run another idiot like Bush in the future, or let guys like Rove and Cheney pull the strings, it's bad for the health of the party.

But no! It looks very much like the Republican's might win, or at the very least, lose in a close call.
Mind you, only Canada has, of all the major first world countries I know, decimated a major political party within living memory.

Here the last time a party was destroyed (the Liberals), was waaaay back in 1921.

[kendoiwan]

Mind you, only Canada has, of all the major first world countries I know, decimated a major political party within living memory.

Here the last time a party was destroyed (the Liberals), was waaaay back in 1921.


Go Cananda. I love the parlimentary system of gov't btw.

FYI I utterly enjoy watching the Prime Ministers minutes every week... Gotta love you Brits. So fucking lively. I wish Bush had to answer question on a weekly basis. Or any president for that matter.

[g_vartan]

Ok, I am so over Palin now :rolleyes2: Yes, please make it stop.

There's buzz re: Obama replacing Biden with Hilary....not likely to happen but man I would so want to watch them go at it :banana:

[C.J.Woolf]

There's buzz re: Obama replacing Biden with Hilary....not likely to happen but man I would so want to watch them go at it :banana:
This got me to thinking... perhaps our campaigns would be saner if there was a parallel fictional campaign to satisfy our need for drama, like a real-time West Wing.

[g_vartan]

This got me to thinking... perhaps our campaigns would be saner if there was a parallel fictional campaign to satisfy our need for drama, like a real-time West Wing.

Why settle for a fictional one when the real one is already oh so entertaining.... watergate....reagan shooting...bush 1 & 2.... bill + hillary + bill's women....Gore / Bush 2000 race....Palin being picked as McCain's VP....even hollywood can't make this sht up :p

[C.J.Woolf]

Why settle for a fictional one when the real one is already oh so entertaining.... even hollywood can't make this sht up :p
Go down that road far enough and we'll be electing an actor for president... :ph34r:

[walfin]

Go down that road far enough and we'll be electing an actor for president...

Wouldn't be the first time.

[M.L.Fay]

I've spend the last 1.5 hours reading this thread - in Germany we only get the "easy" news so it's been quite interesting and illuminating.

I think it's fascinating how important this election is, not only for the Us, but for the world.

I'd vote for Obama (If I still were to believe in Democracy) because I think that the potential for (positive - based on my values) change outweighs the stability that McCain seems to stand for.

I think "hope" has a very strong (and form my point of view, positive) influence on the manifestation of (social) reality.

[kendoiwan]

An excerpt of an "editorial" in response to rapper Juelz Santana saying he'd like to bone Sarah Palin to derail McCains campaign.


Thanks for the wet dream plan, Juelz. Clearly this polar bear bitch is smear-proof, though. If she can have a pregnant teen daughter, a touchdown baby for said pregnant teen daughter, Planet Terror action photos and the shakings of a sold state plane, nothing as minuscule as an affair with the igloo cleaner some Harlem rapster is going to dampen support from the Republican Party.

It may get Juelz a Chilly Willy nut, but thatta ’bout it. Once a Republican supports you, that ass is D4L. Them niggas is more loyal than the fuckin’ Corleone Family. They’ll defend the most bass ackward candidate, so long as (s)he got that (R) behind their name when they speak on C-SPAN. Their motto has always been “It’s wrong until we do it. Then it’s some American shit.”

[Limey]

An excerpt of an "editorial" in response to rapper Juelz Santana saying he'd like to bone Sarah Palin to derail McCains campaign.

Heh, he wants to use his Chocolate/Mocha womb broom in her Igloo.
It's like the movie, Maid in manhattan, except, instead of a love interest housekeeper, it's a euphemism for Jukki Jukki in da pum pum, so no, not really like the movie at all....

[kendoiwan]

I'm a little confused. Let me see if I have this straight.....

If you grow up in Hawaii, raised by your grandparents, you’re 'exotic, different.'

If you grow up in Alaska eating mooseburgers, it’s a quintessential American story.

If your name is Barack you’re a radical, unpatriotic Muslim.

If you name your kids Willow, Trig and Track, you’re a maverick.

If you graduate from Harvard law School, you are unstable.

But if you attend 5 different small colleges before graduating, you ' re well grounded.

If you spend 3 years as a brilliant community organizer, become the first black President of the Harvard Law Review, create a voter registration drive that registers 150,000 new voters, spend 12 years as a Constitutional Law professor, spend 8 years as a State Senator representing a district with over 750,000 people, become chairman of the state Senate’s Health and Human Services committee, spend 4 years in the United States Senate representing a state of 13 million people while sponsoring 131 bills and serving on the Foreign Affairs, Environment and Public Works and Veteran ' s Affairs committees, you don ' t have any real leadership experience.

If your total resume is: local weather girl, 4 years on the city council and 6 years as the mayor of a town with less than 7,000 people, 20 months as the governor of a state with only 650,000 people, then you 're really qualified to become the country ' s second highest ranking executive and next in line behind a man in his eighth decade.

If you have been married to the same woman for 19 years while raising 2 daughters, all within Protestant churches, you’re not a real Christian.

If you cheated on your first wife with a rich heiress, and then left your disfigured wife and married the heiress the next month, you’re a true Christian.

If you teach responsible, age appropriate sex education, including the proper use of birth control, you are eroding the fiber of society.

If, while governor, you staunchly advocate abstinence only, with no other option in sex education in your state’s school system, while your unwed teen daughter ends up pregnant, you ' re very responsible.

If your wife is a Harvard graduate lawyer who gave up a position in a prestigious law firm to work for the betterment of her inner city community, then gave that up to raise a family, your family’s values don’t represent America’s.

If your husband is nicknamed 'First Dude', with at least one DWI conviction and no college education, who didn’t register to vote until age 25 and once was a member of a group that advocated the secession of Alaska from the USA, your family is extremely admirable.

OK, much clearer now.

Couldn't say who the author is, but it's making the forwarded email rounds...

[Rincon]

As usual, the choices aren't particularly appetizing, but it's sure as hell time for a change...



http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=Tw49mm-CmNo&feature=related *edit: youtube tags didn't work*

(including the lyrics because they're awesome)

It's not the right time to be sober
Now the idiots have taken over
Spreading like a social cancer
Is there an answer?

Mensa Membership exceeding
Tell me why and how are all these stupid people breeding
Watson, it's really elementry
The industrial revolution has flipped a bitch on evolution
The benevolent and wise are being thwarted, ostracized
What a bummer
The world keeps getting dumber
Insensitivity is standard, and faith is being fancied over reason

Darwin's rolling over in his coffin
The fittest are surviving much less often
Now everything seems to be reversing
and it's worsening
Someone flopped a steamer in the gene pool
Now angry mob mentality is no longer the exception
It's the rule
and I'm starting to feel a lot like Charlton Heston
Stranded on a primate planet
Apes and orangutans that ran it to the ground
Were generals and the armies that obeyed them
Followers following fables
Philosiphies that enable them to rule without regard

There's no point for democracy when ignorance is celebrated
Political scientists get the same one vote as some Arkansas inbred
Majority rule don't work in mental institutions
Somtimes the smallest softest voice carries the grand biggest solutions

So what are we left with?
A nation of God fearing pregnant nationlists
Who feel it's their duty to populate the homeland
Pass on traditions, how to get ahead religions
and prosperity via simpleton culture

The idiots are taking over

[kendoiwan]

:rocker: Thank you for that

[Luminith]

I can't decide if it's politics or theatre anymore, it definitely is entertaining though - in a satire/horror/dramedy sort of way.

[kendoiwan]

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/20/opinion/20blow.html?th&emc=th

[Bradtv]

God Bless Jon Stewart and Stephen Colbert, they always say what everyone else is either oblivious to, or don't have the balls to say. Can't wait to see what Bill Mahr is going do with this.

I'm watching the repeats of last nights Daily Show, he's running the before and after clips of all the republicans crying foul about Palin, and contrasting what they themselves said about Hillary and Jamie Lyn Spears...

I still want it to stop, but this makes it hurt a little less...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wQK1al91drs

Clearly not circulated enough, but quite a good laugh.

Offering her as a vice president is a joke. It was clearly a tactic to pull votes from Hilary supporters (He already got Christian pools due to straight party Republican Voters - my parents and entire extended family included).



Q: You say you're sure she has experience, but again I'm just asking for an example. What experience does she have in the field of national security?


McCain: Energy. She knows more about energy than probably anyone else in the United States of America. She represe-- is a governor of the state that 20&#37; of America's energy supply comes from there. And you all know that energy is a critical and vital national security issue.


Palin claims Alaska "produces nearly 20 percent of the U.S. domestic supply of energy." That's not true.

Alaska did produce 14 percent of all the oil from U.S. wells last year, but that's a far cry from all the "energy" produced in the U.S.

Alaska's share of domestic energy production was 3.5 percent, according to the official figures kept by the U.S. Energy Information Administration.

And if by "supply" Palin meant all the energy consumed in the U.S., and not just produced here, then Alaska's production accounted for only 2.4 percent.

It's always the other idiot's fault that things aren't going so well... but someone has to put them in office in the first place. Same ol Karl Rove tactics to keep the nation in the shitter.

[Ferrus]

Has anyone mentioned this:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/robert-f-kennedy-jr/governor-palins-reading-l_b_126478.html

[kendoiwan]

Has anyone mentioned this:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/robert-f-kennedy-jr/governor-palins-reading-l_b_126478.html

White racist are fine on this side of the pond...:mellow:

[Kirai]

I've spend the last 1.5 hours reading this thread - in Germany we only get the "easy" news so it's been quite interesting and illuminating.

Yes, I've been following this debate for months, despite that Romania (where I live) is currently in a campaign too. It's amusing how the results of some elections an ocean away will affect us more than the local ones...

...well, if McCain wins, it won't be very 'amusing'.

[How come he has christian support with the name Cain of all things?!]

[Limey]

I'd love to see some evidence that the last child is really hers and not the daughter's (15 yr old pregnancy?)

Palin didn't announce until seven months pregnant and never showed (she looked like a moose with the first child) I read (uncorroborated) that the daughter had mono and was out of school (and public) for 5 months.

[kendoiwan]

http://www.pbs.org/now/polls/poll-435.html

It's a poll asking whether or not people think she's qualified... more people voted yes than no... scary...

[V Profane]

Sam Harris on Sarah Palin and Elitism (http://www.newsweek.com/id/160080/page/1)


Let me confess that I was genuinely unnerved by Sarah Palin's performance at the Republican convention. Given her audience and the needs of the moment, I believe Governor Palin's speech was the most effective political communication I have ever witnessed. Here, finally, was a performer who—being maternal, wounded, righteous and sexy—could stride past the frontal cortex of every American and plant a three-inch heel directly on that limbic circuit that ceaselessly intones "God and country." If anyone could make Christian theocracy smell like apple pie, Sarah Palin could.

[Arachne]

Can she possibly be this clueless? This is bordering on self-parody.

Palin on Foreign Policy (http://www.cbsnews.com/video/watch/?id=4478156n)

[kendoiwan]

:dont:

[kendoiwan]

XjkCrfylq-E

Letterman for President!!!

[kendoiwan]

So basically McCain can't prepare for a debate and handle an economic crisis... but yet someone thought he could run a country... Damn and I thought the Bush camp was stupid!

Ah the wisdom of the common man

[V Profane]

The scariest thing about Sarah Palin isn't how unqualified she is - it's what her candidacy says about America (http://www.smirkingchimp.com/thread/17504)


It was like watching Gidget address the Reichstag.

[kendoiwan]

I stared at her open-mouthed. In that moment, the rank cynicism of the whole sorry deal was laid bare. Here's the thing about Americans. You can send their kids off by the thousands to get their balls blown off in foreign lands for no reason at all, saddle them with billions in debt year after congressional year while they spend their winters cheerfully watching game shows and football, pull the rug out from under their mortgages, and leave them living off their credit cards and their Wal-Mart salaries while you move their jobs to China and Bangalore.

And none of it matters, so long as you remember a few months before Election Day to offer them a two-bit caricature culled from some cutting-room-floor episode of Roseanne as part of your presidential ticket. And if she's a good enough likeness of a loudmouthed middle-American archetype, as Sarah Palin is, John Q. Public will drop his giant-size bag of Doritos in gratitude, wipe the Sizzlin' Picante dust from his lips and rush to the booth to vote for her. Not because it makes sense, or because it has a chance of improving his life or anyone else's, but simply because it appeals to the low-humming narcissism that substitutes for his personality, because the image on TV reminds him of the mean, brainless slob he sees in the mirror every morning.

I wish I could say something in rebutal...:mellow:

[SensEye]

I wish I could say something in rebutal...:mellow:At this sorry point all we have left is the humor.

I did not see Palin's complete interview with Couric, but I saw this snippet.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WmILZMz_d2c

Watch it first, then watch this SNL parody.

http://www.nbc.com/Saturday_Night_Live/video/clips/couric-palin-open/704042/

You will laugh your ass off.

[kendoiwan]

At this sorry point all we have left is the humor.

I did not see Palin's complete interview with Couric, but I saw this snippet.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WmILZMz_d2c

Watch it first, then watch this SNL parody.

http://www.nbc.com/Saturday_Night_Live/video/clips/couric-palin-open/704042/

You will laugh your ass off.

I didn't laugh... To busy crying... If I didn't know it wasn't her, I wouldn't know it wasn't her...:wahmbulance: :boohoo:

Can I come crash at your place while I get my Canadian citizenship in order?

[Limey]

The scariest thing about Sarah Palin isn't how unqualified she is - it's what her candidacy says about America (http://www.smirkingchimp.com/thread/17504)

I had to quote it again for its trufiness.
I couldn't drive my car down the street, out of my cul-de-sac without hitting several of these glazed eye having, ultra conservative no-matter-what, southern Republican baptists.
They look normal on the outside, (when they focus on an object before them, training their eyes) they can even achieve level 2 small talk, but they cannot help directing the level of conversation down the slippery slope of "god has a plan-ism".

Don't get me wrong, I'll still take these two clicks above retard types over a chav, hoodie, pikey or gippo, but it's not at least those people are deliberately fuck ups, like some kind of mis-informed anarchist

[MacGuffin]

Sarah Palin's secret lover - revealed (http://www.nationalenquirer.com/national_enquirer_world_exclusive_sarah_palins_secret_lover_revealed/celebrity/65481)!

[V Profane]

Don't get me wrong, I'll still take these two clicks above retard types over a chav, hoodie, pikey or gippo, but it's not at least those people are deliberately fuck ups, like some kind of mis-informed anarchist

At least chavs, hoodies, pikeys and gippos don't vote.

[kendoiwan]

This chick is scary...everyone should see these interviews over an over again... Do you solomly swear to brush up on everything you need to know once you get into office and to maintain a C average or be impeached?

=))

[Meliora]

God, I love her accent.

But other than that...meeeh...

[Sarcastikus]

http://www.pbs.org/now/polls/poll-435.html

It's a poll asking whether or not people think she's qualified... more people voted yes than no... scary...

I just checked it (and voted). It's now tied, 49&#37;. Some people must have finally woke up!

[kendoiwan]

Wow... She just talked around the first two question completely, she made no attempt to answer the questions... :mellow:

[kendoiwan]

Wow if the American people cannot see she is full of shit by now... 15 minutes into this thing...

[kendoiwan]

I :wub: Biden

[Anonymous]

Wow if the American people cannot see she is full of shit by now... 15 minutes into this thing...

I'm sure the same people who read Family Circus just love her.

[kendoiwan]

I'm sure the same people who read Family Circus just love her.

She's like a robot who only knows what she's been programmed to say and any question on a topic she has no data for you just goes back to the programming:mellow:

How's the weather?

John McCain is a Maverick.

How are you feelng today?

I was the governor of Alaska.

[starla]

You can tell she has no idea what the hell she is talking about. People here are stupid though.

[Limey]

It's NUCLEAR, not fucking NUKULAR!
Bush is the same fucking retarded way!

It's Iran (short vowel I) not I-ran.

[kendoiwan]

:shock: Q: "Was the Bush administrations policy on Israel an abject failure?" A: "No. But(Insert inane subject change that makes no attempt to defend the claim)"
How can she get away with this? Tim Russert is doing airels in his grave...

[starla]

Jesus, is her whole strategy just to sound as folksy as possible?

[Eli]

Jesus, is her whole strategy just to sound as folksy as possible?

Doggone it, I think it is!

[Anonymous]

I'm never using the word "folks" again.

[kendoiwan]

:wtf: :wacko: is there a vomit smilie? :vomit: No,crap...

[C.J.Woolf]

:wtf: :wacko: is there a vomit smilie? :vomit: No,crap...
There is :sick:, which I like to think of as the "booyalabicon". There is also :rolleyes2: .

I liked the times she tried to twist Obama's procedural votes in the Senate ("He voted against funding the troops in Iraq"; "He voted to raise taxes a jillion times") and Biden replied that McCain had voted the same way. (Actually, I was mildly surprised at that. McCain hardly ever votes in the Senate anymore.) The Republicans pulled the same bullshit on Kerry in 2004, but this time they have a Senator running too. I guess Palin missed the memo.

[Limey]

I :wub: Biden

If I had a vagina, I'd have flicked it. As it stands, Palin is a MILK (Kick, in the mouth).


Jesus, is her whole strategy just to sound as folksy as possible?

I'm reminded of that southpark episode where the coffee shop owner (tweek's dad) kept doing his sales spiel.
That comfy pair of slippers, the first crisp air of autumn, a stroll in a dusky park.

Every person that says they feel "energized" or that she's "real" needs a REAL, ENERGIZED punch between the eyes.

[C.J.Woolf]

Every person that says they feel "energized" or that she's "real" needs a REAL, ENERGIZED punch between the eyes.
Palin is identity politics in action. Just like Bush, only she's not phony-folksy.

Maybe I'm weird (for an American), but I don't want a President or Vice President who is just like me. I know my limitations.

[avolkiteshvara]

Jesus, is her whole strategy just to sound as folksy as possible?

This reminds me of when Bush was asked "what famous from history do you admire the most" and he answered with........Jesus.

A common strategy seem to be lowering the bar so even a mediocre performance is met with appluase and approval.

If her and Bush fucked they would have down-syndrome babies.

[Rhu]

http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5hXjFO32po31jdmsir85Ap5CKly7gD93ECGKG0

[purveyor of truth]

If her and Bush fucked they would have down-syndrome babies.

Sarah Palin? I'm trying really hard to follow this

[kendoiwan]

Sarah Palin? I'm trying really hard to follow this

:stupid: :stupid: :stupid:

So I'm listening to people calling into CSpan and a lady from San Diego goes "Sarah Palin won the debate because he... (wait for it) Shook her hand and it's ethically wrong for a man to shake a womans hand!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:mellow: :mad: :rant:

P.S. I pissed at how the media is spinning this thing too. Where's the Liberal mainstream media I keep hearing about?:mellow:

[Works]

:stupid: :stupid: :stupid:

So I'm listening to people calling into CSpan and a lady from San Diego goes "Sarah Palin won the debate because he... (wait for it) Shook her hand and it's ethically wrong for a man to shake a womans hand!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:mellow: :mad: :rant:

P.S. I pissed at how the media is spinning this thing too. Where's the Liberal mainstream media I keep hearing about?:mellow:

There's some truth to the fact that the media is liberal in that individual reporters tend to lean left; however, most newspaper owners and people who have the newspapers direct financial concerns in mind tend to be conservative.

That also colors the commentary.

[kendoiwan]

There's some truth to the fact that the media is liberal in that individual reporters tend to lean left; however, most newspaper owners and people who have the newspapers direct financial concerns in mind tend to be conservative.

That also colors the commentary.

I care not what their personal leanings are, when reporting on the "issues" they ALWAYS bend over backwards to be "fair" even when such fairness is utter madness. Just once I'd like to see a Poppa Bear moment out of these guys...

[C.J.Woolf]

I care not what their personal leanings are, when reporting on the "issues" they ALWAYS bend over backwards to be "fair" even when such fairness is utter madness. Just once I'd like to see a Poppa Bear moment out of these guys...
Yes. The Right works the media refs hard. Whenever a reporter writes something they don't like, they fire some manufactured outrage at him/her whether or not the story is true. Especially if it's true, I think. ("Reality has a well-known liberal bias." -- Stephen Colbert) That makes for a whipped media and the "he said, she said" that passes for journalism these days. They will not call a lie a lie (until very recently); they will only report on the other side calling out lies.


Unrelated -- this from a blog:

Dear Palin/McCain: If you have to continually remind everyone you're a maverick ... you ain't one.
Kinda like cool, no?

[Toonia]

I was thankful that Palin was able to give on some level an appearance of debating, although it was the strangest interchange I have ever witnessed between two candidates. It was clear she had prepared note cards with pre-set answers which she used whether or not they applied to the given question. I was glad that was allowed and she finished her sentences and gave an appearance of debating because I don't know if the morale of the country could take viewing another broken system

I was amazed at the reaction after the debate with some commentators suggesting she won. Pat Buchanan was so infatuated I thought he might wet his pants. I always had significant reservations about Hilary, but I miss aspects of her when viewing Palin's flirty big eyes, cutesy nose wrinkles, and folksy chat which assumes no need for the letter "G". That persona is great for flirting privately or *maybe* giving a PTA speech, but the current situations in the world are too serious. I find that presentation to be patronizing, offensive, and downright demoralizing. Her scatterbrained delivery of ideas suggests an empty head focused on image delivery using tactics that work best in beauty pageants.

[2hype]

If she was ugly she'd be ridiculed for that too. I wonder if people could have taken her seriously if she was attractive AND qualified.

I thought Biden was great.

[iksikaksi]

Does anybody here have a clue how Obama intends to solve the economical problem if elected? I dont like the Bush administration but so far the only thing I've heard from the democrats are criticisms towards the Bush administration but no clear plans on how to solve the future problems. The only thing I hear is we "we need to change," and "we are a great nation." No compromise of any kind is heard out of their part.

[Toonia]

If she was ugly she'd be ridiculed for that too. I wonder if people could have taken her seriously if she was attractive AND qualified.

I thought Biden was great.
It isn't about level of attractiveness, but the manner in which it is communicated. It is an asset to be pleasant to look at when communicating through the media. It is the cutesy delivery that I take issue with, not degree of attractiveness. Women in professional settings who are attractive can deal with that image in a variety of ways, and the approach they choose suggests their strongest attribute. There are many flirtatious mannerisms for women which are submissive by nature. Those attributes can elicit positive reactions from men, but for the wrong reasons.

[Limey]

We heard Biden in the debate cover McCain's plans for privatized healthcare - here it is from the Horse's (or Squirrel's) mouth:

http://www.dumpalink.com/videos/Mccain_on_wal-mart_healthcare-22b8.html

[MacGuffin]

Baby named Sarah McCain Palin (http://www.wbir.com/news/local/story.aspx?storyid=66550&catid=2)


A new father has secretly named his baby girl Sarah McCain Palin after the Republican ticket for president and vice president.

Mark Ciptak of Elizabethton put that name on the documents for the girl's birth certificate, ignoring the name Ava Grace, which he and his wife had picked earlier.

:banana:

[ryan_m_parr]

Baby named Sarah McCain Palin (http://www.wbir.com/news/local/story.aspx?storyid=66550&catid=2)


That is going to become one disturbed baby. . . "Mommy, was I adopted?" And if they do get elected, I imagine after awhile, "No honey; it was an accident. . . I'm very, very, very sorry."

Not to mention the visuals that come to mind with the name. . . Pretty gross.

[SensEye]

"I took one for the cause," he said. "I can't give a lot of financial support for the (McCain/Palin) campaign. I do have a sign up in my yard, but I can do very little." Poor guy doesn't give himself enough credit. Having a low IQ is enough. It's the core of the support for the McCain/Palin ticket. A public demonstration that will haunt his daughter for years is not really required.

[C.J.Woolf]

Poor guy doesn't give himself enough credit. Having a low IQ is enough. It's the core of the support for the McCain/Palin ticket. A public demonstration that will haunt his daughter for years is not really required.
She's destined to become a Democrat, if only to piss off the old man.

[Ferrus]

Poor guy doesn't give himself enough credit. Having a low IQ is enough. It's the core of the support for the McCain/Palin ticket. A public demonstration that will haunt his daughter for years is not really required.
Good job intelligence is inheritable then.

[CEOofRawness]

:banghead: My head is about to explode. :stupid: All this Sarah Palin business is killing me.
Her resume consists of running a town of under 9000 as mayor, and governing a state of 600,000, poorly as I understand it.

When you here the republican talking heads pitch her, they sell her life story.
But the moment anyone takes a critical look at her life story, people say "hands off" that's off limits.

:mad: :mad: :banghead: :mad: :banghead: :banghead:

If honesty and logic were introduced into politics, the whole system will collapse. The whole system is a gimmick; this year's election has become a carnival with all sorts of oddities to entertain the mainstream audience.

But don't blame politics or politicians. They are the way they are because they do what they need to do to win (that's what life is all about in America, right?). When they say some downright outrageous shit, it's because they know that their sales pitches will come across certain "six pack Joes" that they know will vote for them when they hear their talking points.

Politicians realized a long time ago that the average American is stupid, so they revolve their entire campaign around the average American. It's that painstakingly simple, really. So once again, don't blame the politicians, blame "six pack Joe" who doesn't have enough sense (or desire) to research the candidates a bit and base their vote on the better candidate.

And I would say that we should have some sort of test to determine whether or not people understand the candidates' stances on the issues (or even an IQ test for the real cynical), but knowing how things are run in this country, that test would be corrupted in no time.

Personally, I wouldn't vote for either candidate (although Obama seems to be the lesser of two evils). The democratic and republican parties have invested millions of dollars (including some private investors) into these candidates, and we all know there is no free lunch. Our democracy (which is really a republic, not a democracy, FYI) is nothing more than smoke and mirrors set up by the big boys that really run the country. Are all politicians are corrupt? No. But how many politicians do you know have been successful by playing Mr. Nice Guy (John Kerry, anyone)?

Stand back and see the system for what it is. Then come to gripes that you can do very little about it, and avoid all this unnecessary stress.

[Sarcastikus]

I just got this in my email. Move the mouse around and click where appropriate. Give the globe a few spins and save the red phone on the desk for last!

http://www.palinaspresident.us/

[Andantino]

What a horrible thought. Ugh.

[Curtis24]

Judging by her Alaskan administration, it would not be her, but her husband, calling the shots. Which is even scarier than if she was the one doing it.

[CEOofRawness]

I just got this in my email. Move the mouse around and click where appropriate. Give the globe a few spins and save the red phone on the desk for last!

http://www.palinaspresident.us/

That, my friend, was actually entertaining.

:theclap: bravo! :theclap:

[aelan]

*rofl* I like her Bloomberg machine with the scrolling tickers of Depression ^, Fear ^, NASDAQ v.

[elfsprin]

I just got this in my email. Move the mouse around and click where appropriate. Give the globe a few spins and save the red phone on the desk for last!

http://www.palinaspresident.us/

you beat me! i was just on my way here to post that link. nice.

[purveyor of truth]

In case you missed yesterdays news, Sarah Palin thinks the vice president is in charge of the senate. I mean like tells them what to do.

[NoahFence]

In case you missed yesterdays news, Sarah Palin thinks the vice president is in charge of the senate. I mean like tells them what to do.

Well it was true for Dick...but probably not because of his Vice Presidency.

[g_vartan]

I guess to be a female maverick one has to spend $150K on clothes/hair/make-up. After all one has to be fierce *meow*

Good job on connecting with the 'real america'....

http://www.addictinggames.com/sarahpalindressup.html

[manza]

http://imagebot.org/debate.jpg

[Limey]

oh snap, no they di' `int!
They went there.

[Archvile]

[img]

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: Look at Binden's smile!

.

[CEOofRawness]

=))

That was so wrong...

[MacGuffin]

Zomg, that was so wrong...





...I laughed for a minute.

[tinribz]

Did anyone already post this vid:

http://richarddawkins.net/article,3274,n,n


Where does a lot of that earmark money end up anyway? [snip] You've heard about some of these pet projects they really don't make a whole lot of sense and sometimes these dollars go to projects that have little or nothing to do with the public good. Things like fruit fly research in Paris, France. I kid you not.

It's getting beyond the ridiculous now.

[ryan_m_parr]

Sarah Palin and the BS

Source (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/michael-seitzman/sarah-palin-the-right-to_b_124991.html)

And this was neat:
http://i34.tinypic.com/iz87ee.jpg

[Limey]

She's on TV now and can't help but append "n' stuff" on the end of all of her sentences for her.

Try it - it's fun and enjoyable

[MountainHiker]

I can't put my finger on it but I find this woman extremely irritating in every way. The thought of her being a media darling as VP makes me want to vomit violently. If there is any decency in this world, by tomorrow she will be a footnote in history and a Trivial Pursuit question. Please go away Sarah and never come back.

[MacGuffin]

I keep wanting to retitle this thread "Make it rain".

http://hiphopdom.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2007/08/lil-wayne-makes-it-rain.jpg

[kendoiwan]

:rofl:

[Architectonic]

I still don't understand why certain media commentators claimed she is hot, when she isn't anything special.

But I guess that isn't a problem now that she is doomed to obscurity.

[Limey]

I still don't understand why certain media commentators claimed she is hot, when she isn't anything special.

But I guess that isn't a problem now that she is doomed to obscurity.

Compared to Lizzie Birdsworth and half the shielas from Prisoner, I think she's [was] fair dinkum.

http://www.prisoner-cellblockh.co.uk/dvd/graphics/lizzie.jpg

[nobarcode]

Still, I personally wonder and research what deals are being made obscured by the distraction that is Sarah Palin. :mellow:

:ph34r:

[gunslingerfry]

Well now it can officially stop. The end.

[Arouet]

With the fiscal crisis and then the debates, I knew that McCain was finished. He ran the most inept campaign I've ever witnessed.

She would not have been MY first choice, and she's no intellectual. But she's not quite the idiot that some of you, with the media's help, believe she is.

She was BADLY "mishandled" by the McCain campaign.

Don't be so sure that you've seen the last of Sarah Palin.

[nobarcode]

In which context will what stop? I'm being curious.

[MadamI'madaM]

With the fiscal crisis and then the debates, I knew that McCain was finished. He ran the most inept campaign I've ever witnessed.

She would not have been MY first choice, and she's no intellectual. But she's not quite the idiot that some of you, with the media's help, believe she is.

She was BADLY "mishandled" by the McCain campaign.

Don't be so sure that you've seen the last of Sarah Palin.

McCain was a fall guy and Sara was his prop.

That poor woman dumb bitch is ruined for the presidency.

Sadly, she'll probably be elected somewhere else better than Alaska now.

[Architectonic]

Compared to Lizzie Birdsworth and half the shielas from Prisoner

LOL, that is not much of a comparison.

The producers of that show searched long and hard for decent actors that were butch or ugly enough to be on that show.

[gunslingerfry]

In which context will what stop? I'm being curious.

I have no clue. My take on it is, whatever was continuing and wouldn't stop has now stopped because nobody cares about Palin anymore.