Conspiracy Theory Ideas

[Ellipsis]

This Thread is for original conspiracies dealing with current events no moon landing, JFK assignation ones please.

The Convenient Finical Crisis

Two months before the United States votes for president there is suddenly a finical crisis that is likely to make the US government the largest homeowner in the country. Not only that it is also giving out BILLIONS in "loans" to needy companies, who just happen to have one or two lobbyists in the wings. I am unsure if this is happening to help the Obama campaign by making the Republicans look bad or else there to give him more power once he takes over. Time will tell... :ph34r:

[Ferrus]

JFK assignation ones please.
I'm pretty sure there was more than one.

[kendoiwan]

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/25/us/politics/25voting.html?th&emc=th

How to steal an election the 3rd time around

[C.J.Woolf]

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/25/us/politics/25voting.html?th&emc=th

How to steal an election the 3rd time around
The Republicans have always done vote suppression. This is just a new tactic.

But only a close election can be stolen.

[kendoiwan]

The Republicans have always done vote suppression. This is just a new tactic.

But only a close election can be stolen.

Enough people are in denial about that fact for me to consider it a conspiracy:ph34r:

If you can artificially keep peoples votes from counting you can make it closer than it would've otherwise been...

[stopharian]

This thread is just a conspiracy by ellipsis to try and move our attention away from his involvement in the faked moon landing and the connected assassination of JFK

[Skeety]

You argue voter suppression and quote the NY Slimes. I think the truth lies with the dead people of St. Louis, Chicago, Philadelphia and Detroit that manage to crawl out of their graves every four years and somehow cast a vote for whichever democrat is running for President.

[Dark Razor]

This Thread is for original conspiracies dealing with current events no moon landing, JFK assignation ones please.

The Convenient Finical Crisis

Two months before the United States votes for president there is suddenly a finical crisis that is likely to make the US government the largest homeowner in the country. Not only that it is also giving out BILLIONS in "loans" to needy companies, who just happen to have one or two lobbyists in the wings. I am unsure if this is happening to help the Obama campaign by making the Republicans look bad or else there to give him more power once he takes over. Time will tell... :ph34r:

There isn't "suddenly" a financial crisis. The crisis has been very predictably developing over the last several years, and has been ongoing since at least the summer of '07. The bailout happens to rescue the US from total economic collapse equal to or worse than the Great Depression, not to help someone's election campaign.

[purveyor of truth]

There isn't "suddenly" a financial crisis. The crisis has been very predictably developing over the last several years, and has been ongoing since at least the summer of '07. The bailout happens to rescue the US from total economic collapse equal to or worse than the Great Depression, not to help someone's election campaign.

It could easily be argued that this was engineered.

[Dark Razor]

It could easily be argued that this was engineered.

Engineered by whom and how and for what purpose?

[purveyor of truth]

Engineered by whom and how and for what purpose?

The aliens so they can build more spaceships

[Dark Razor]

The aliens so they can build more spaceships

How precisely will it help them to build more spaceships?

[purveyor of truth]

How precisely will it help them to build more spaceships?

They take our american dollars and buy well-made cheap chinese flying saucer parts.

[Chunes]

Give me a break. If you want to steal an election you don't trigger a financial meltdown, you just fudge the votes. Why make a big, overt mess of it that leaves you open to analysis? And Dark Razor, why do you buy into what the media say about it? You're just regurgitating their propaganda.

[C.J.Woolf]

How precisely will it help them to build more spaceships?
They use lots and lots of soiled underpants?

3. PROFIT!

[purveyor of truth]

Give me a break. If you want to steal an election you don't trigger a financial meltdown, you just fudge the votes. Why make a big, overt mess of it that leaves you open to analysis? And Dark Razor, why do you buy into what the media say about it? You're just regurgitating their propaganda.

Could be because they saw the writing on the wall, not going to win this election so lets rob the US economy on the way out.

[purveyor of truth]

They use lots and lots of soiled underpants?

No, your collection has no value to anyone else.

[Dark Razor]

Give me a break. If you want to steal an election you don't trigger a financial meltdown, you just fudge the votes. Why make a big, overt mess of it that leaves you open to analysis? And Dark Razor, why do you buy into what the media say about it? You're just regurgitating their propaganda.

In which way am I doing that, and what is the correct way of looking at it?

[Chunes]

Until we have proof of intention there is no correct way to look at it. Yet I still find it highly unlikely that this $700,000,000,000 transfer of wealth is as innocent as saving the economy. I'd be surprised if the architects of this plan expected it to revive the economy. I suppose it might be a little clearer if Paulson showed up in a ski mask, frantically waved a gun around, and shouted "give me all your money!" (And what's more McCain and Obama are arguing over who gets to drive the getaway car!)

I would like to think that most people are smart enough to know that allocating 700 billion dollars of debt-money to buy bad assets accomplishes nothing. In fact, it accomplishes less than nothing. (In fact, the bill as-presently-worded would allow Paulson to buy whatever he wishes with no oversight, not just a specific kind of thing.)

[Dark Razor]

Until we have proof of intention there is no correct way to look at it. Yet I still find it highly unlikely that this $700,000,000,000 transfer of wealth is as innocent as saving the economy. I'd be surprised if the architects of this plan expected it to revive the economy. I suppose it might be a little clearer if Paulson showed up in a ski mask, frantically waved a gun around, and shouted "give me all your money!" (And what's more McCain and Obama are arguing over who gets to drive the getaway car!)

I would like to think that most people are smart enough to know that allocating 700 billion dollars of debt-money to buy bad assets accomplishes nothing. In fact, it accomplishes less than nothing.

I do think that the economy is actually in danger of collapsing and that the rich elite is screaming for the government to save their skins, and I also expect that the bailout will likely prove ineffective. Of course it also represents a transfer of wealth to the top and serves to eliminate the need for personal responsibility for the acting persons. Though since the concept of the "corporate person" was invented the rich have never been bothered with responsibility for their own actions, it's the small buisnes owners who go into personal bankruptcy, the CEO never does.

The bailout is necessitated by the structure of the economic system, it's basically "you bail us out or you go down with us"

Im not actually in favor of the bailout and if I were to decide about it I would let it fail to accelarate the economic collapse and to destroy the system I despise so much.

But, if I look at the situation then I see that the causes for the crisis are systemic, of course the system was set up in such a way as to ensure that the money always flows to the top, the entire financial market is essentially one big robber-baron party. I do think though that this is probably all there is, the system is designed to always benefit the haves over the have nots and it grants the haves latent, all pervasive political influence and the possibility to shape events, but I don't think that any large, risky event would be manufactured deliberately, I think of this influence more in terms of a permanent shift of the odds in favour of the bank.

Also the current US elections are a pretty insignificant event if you look at the big picture. There is an election every four years, so why should this one be special? Additionally, since you only have two parties each party gets to be in power some time so there is no real reason for serious competition. And if you want to manipulate the elections, just bribe Diebold, no need to engineer an all encompassing financial meltdown.

[dscotese]

Engineered by whom and how and for what purpose?

Well, who benefits? That'd be who engineered it. For what purpose? Move $700B from the pockets of 300 million people into the pockets of, I dunno, 100,000? Money is useful, no?

Anyway, $700B is peanuts. Trillions will be lost. They're just trying to figure out how to maximize the amount that will be taken from the taxpayers.

I actually look at national borders as corral fences, and we are the livestock. It's Thomas Paine's fault for pointing out that slavery is a bad idea because now, instead of just telling us we're slaves and we better do what we're told or they'll beat us, they have to create reasons to make us believe that we have to do what we're told, and that it isn't because they are immoral assholes. Legal tender laws, eminent domain, the regulation of cannabis... Slavery has become an art. The Neo's and Leonitis's among us have to start defying the powers that be. We'll all die, but we might be able to show a few people that slavery is not inevitable. Besides, it could be fun. I'll be there as soon as my kids are a bit older.

[Chunes]

I do think that the economy is actually in danger of collapsing and that the rich elite is screaming for the government to save their skins, and I also expect that the bailout will likely prove ineffective. Of course it also represents a transfer of wealth to the top and serves to eliminate the need for personal responsibility for the acting persons. Though since the concept of the "corporate person" was invented the rich have never been bothered with responsibility for their own actions, it's the small buisnes owners who go into personal bankruptcy, the CEO never does.

The bailout is necessitated by the structure of the economic system, it's basically "you bail us out or you go down with us"

Im not actually in favor of the bailout and if I were to decide about it I would let it fail to accelarate the economic collapse and to destroy the system I despise so much.

But, if I look at the situation then I see that the causes for the crisis are systemic, of course the system was set up in such a way as to ensure that the money always flows to the top, the entire financial market is essentially one big robber-baron party. I do think though that this is probably all there is, the system is designed to always benefit the haves over the have nots and it grants the haves latent, all pervasive political influence and the possibility to shape events, but I don't think that any large, risky event would be manufactured deliberately, I think of this influence more in terms of a permanent shift of the odds in favour of the bank.

Also the current US elections are a pretty insignificant event if you look at the big picture. There is an election every four years, so why should this one be special? Additionally, since you only have two parties each party gets to be in power some time so there is no real reason for serious competition. And if you want to manipulate the elections, just bribe Diebold, no need to engineer an all encompassing financial meltdown.

Well then, I think we both agree. I still don't think the elites expect the bailout to work. They just need the extra month or two while we prod up the stock market's corpse to move their assets out of the country and a wad of money to do it with.

[Dark Razor]

Well, who benefits? That'd be who engineered it. For what purpose? Move $700B from the pockets of 300 million people into the pockets of, I dunno, 100,000? Money is useful, no?

Anyway, $700B is peanuts. Trillions will be lost. They're just trying to figure out how to maximize the amount that will be taken from the taxpayers.

I actually look at national borders as corral fences, and we are the livestock. It's Thomas Paine's fault for pointing out that slavery is a bad idea because now, instead of just telling us we're slaves and we better do what we're told or they'll beat us, they have to create reasons to make us believe that we have to do what we're told, and that it isn't because they are immoral assholes. Legal tender laws, eminent domain, the regulation of cannabis... Slavery has become an art. The Neo's and Leonitis's among us have to start defying the powers that be. We'll all die, but we might be able to show a few people that slavery is not inevitable. Besides, it could be fun. I'll be there as soon as my kids are a bit older.

I wouldn't disagree with your points about slavery, but I do find it hard to believe that the financial crisis was engineered delibaretely, this is so because I recognize that the causes for the crisis are systemic, and you would need to manipulate a whole lot of factors and people to even change the direction the system is going, and you still could not be sure of a reliable outcome. It seems to me that the crisis happend accidentially, but is now opportunistically used by those who see the possibility to profit from it.


Well then, I think we both agree. I still don't think the elites expect the bailout to work. They just need the extra month or two while we prod up the stock market's corpse to move their assets out of the country and a wad of money to do it with.

:highfive:

[ryan_m_parr]

Supposedly the President has Executive power to hold onto office, past his term in the event of an economic disaster. Though that may not occur, it is a frightening possibility. Our Constitution has been worked out in such a way that it could easily turn into a Dystopia, of a Dictatorship, overnight.

[Dark Razor]

Supposedly the President has Executive power to hold onto office, past his term in the event of an economic disaster. Though that may not occur, it is a frightening possibility. Our Constitution has been worked out in such a way that it could easily turn into a Dystopia, of a Dictatorship, overnight.

Check out the FEMA executive orders (http://www.theforbiddenknowledge.com/hardtruth/fema_executive_orders.htm) they contain all you need to know. Though you may also want to read the USA Patriot Act and the Military Commisions Act of 2006.

[MacGuffin]

Supposedly the President has Executive power to hold onto office, past his term in the event of an economic disaster. Though that may not occur, it is a frightening possibility. Our Constitution has been worked out in such a way that it could easily turn into a Dystopia, of a Dictatorship, overnight.

Supposedly the President has Executive power to transform into a bat and fly into the rooms of young virgins at night and suck their blood.

[Dark Razor]

Supposedly the President has Executive power to transform into a bat and fly into the rooms of young virgins at night and suck their blood.

Now you killed the thread.

[Ferrus]

George Bush and Dick Cheney are actually long separated twins, albeit the latter suffered a horrific disfigurement is an incident involving a jedi knight and force lightning.

[MacGuffin]

Now you killed the thread.

Just the way we planned it in the modbox! :highfive:

[outmywindow]

Just the way we planned it in the modbox! :highfive:
Shhhhh!!!!!

[MacGuffin]

Shhhhh!!!!!

These simpletons won't believe the truth!

[outmywindow]

These simpletons won't believe the truth!
True, especially if we feed them a false theory to fixate on. Let them think it came from underground channels, when in fact it was generated and disseminated by the very organization they are trying so pitifully to rebel against.

Give them just enough freedom to think they have freewill. Give them just enough suspicion to think they're alert and aware. Give them just enough determination to distract them while we slip the fetters around their wrists.

[dscotese]

I wouldn't disagree with your points about slavery, but I do find it hard to believe that the financial crisis was engineered delibaretely, this is so because I recognize that the causes for the crisis are systemic, and you would need to manipulate a whole lot of factors and people to even change the direction the system is going, and you still could not be sure of a reliable outcome. It seems to me that the crisis happend accidentially, but is now opportunistically used by those who see the possibility to profit from it.


The crisis was engineered. The engineering started at the latest in the 1700s when King George and the other royalty around Europe realized that people were becoming more sentient. Maybe it started millenia before Christ. There is Constantine and his bible-building Council of Nicea.

Be privileged for a while - I mean, just imagine that you have... I dunno, some kind of assumed right to make people do what you want. You might be able to get yourself to the point where you see that those who are NOT in your position are just like livestock. How do you deal with them? Study Macchiavelli, study psychology, economics, figure out how things work. In the position of privilege, once you recognize it, your love for your kind (friends, children, children's friends, friends' children) will motivate you to figure out how to maintain that privilege even as those without it recognize it for what it is (as Thomas Paine did).

I didn't mean the crisis that "appeared suddenly" during this 21st century. Larry Burkett wrote a book about it called "The Coming Economic Earthquake" in 1991, I think. Murray Rothbard kind of nailed the bastards when he proposed that the intent of government is not to make things good for people, but to maintain enough control over them to remain in a position of privilege.

Because of our increased awareness, it is now relatively easy to switch over to the side of evil - become a well-paid government contractor/employee. They had to open it to others or lose it (thanks to Mr. Paine, and maybe Jesus too). But if you're smart enough to be aware of what you're doing, you sacrifice your identity as a decent human being. Most people are not, and so there is a large swath of "privileged" humans who are contributing to the problem (you get job security, a little authority, some misplaced respect, access to money that the payer wants to spend rather than keep, in order justify a budget for next year). Even Warren Buffet encourages people to work hard so they can pay their taxes and help solve the country's financial woes.

It isn't our fault. Most of us, though we never have to prove it, are smart enough to deal with the result of a complete financial meltdown. We would figure out how to trade. We are humans with remarkable brains. It's a shame that we've been taught not to use them.

[C.J.Woolf]

Supposedly the President has Executive power to transform into a bat and fly into the rooms of young virgins at night and suck their blood.
We agreed you would say it was the Vice President! :mad:

[Ferrus]

It isn't our fault. Most of us, though we never have to prove it, are smart enough to deal with the result of a complete financial meltdown. We would figure out how to trade. We are humans with remarkable brains. It's a shame that we've been taught not to use them.
The only problem now is, we are too many, and too dependant on specialists, natural resources and mass capitalisation to retain a psychologically comfortable standard of living.

[dscotese]

The only problem now is, we are too many, and too dependant on specialists, natural resources and mass capitalisation to retain a psychologically comfortable standard of living.

There's actually not a whole lot that would change if the Federal government stopped interfering. The big businesses that are currently benefitting (or about to benefit) from government support would find and pay individual companies to provide that support and charge their customers for the cost. The small businesses that are benefitting form it will cease to exist (YAY!), and the individuals who are will learn a lesson they should've learned a long time ago.

I think the problem is that we don't have any faith in ourselves. School and religion and authorities have done a good job destroying self-assuredness.

[eyebyte_atWork]

Does not matter who is elected - the battle between republicans and democrats is done to keep our attention off the real subjects. It matters not who is in office - they all run under the same agenda.

[dscotese]

I forgot to explain the details of the engineering.

Many millenia ago, they went up a mountain for several weeks and came back with carved stone tablets. They said God did it and that they were just sitting around the whole time. Then, in 300 AD, they created a book that was "from God" (and is, in fact, the primary source for the story about the tablets). The book was only accessible to the "priests" who would tell people what God wanted. Then, about 700 years later, they said God needed us to kill each other. In the 1770s, Thomas Paine pointed out that the whole system was based on beliefs that each of us developed individually, and that we should be free to exercise those beliefs, and that each of us should have the ultimate say in what we do with our lives. This pissed them off so much that they tried to kill their own colonists (for not paying them enough to support their military efforts to make sure the colonists kept paying them to support other military efforts). But the colonists won. Then, in 1913, they created a central bank, having realized that to control a nation, you need only control its money. This basically means that there's a bank that can only go bankrupt if the country ceases to exist. In 1933, they said we weren't allowed to own gold any more. Having been trained to follow their stupid demands, most of us sold our gold. In 1971, they said they would stop honoring their promise to redeem their IOUs for gold. In 1975, they said we could own gold again, but they still wouldn't redeem their IOUs. How many "stupid policy errors" do we have to get to before we realize that it was engineered?

[Ellipsis]

Does not matter who is elected - the battle between republicans and democrats is done to keep our attention off the real subjects. It matters not who is in office - they all run under the same agenda.

I keeps us off the trail of the Aliens.

The US really has to fix that Alien loving system...the rest of the world has protections in place to prevent ABSOLUTE political takeover by the Aliens.

[Chunes]

dscotese, big thumbs up. When you decide to take action and if you ever need a partner, look me up.

[Thevenin]

Back to the OP. My theory about conspiracies is that they are largely theoretical, that is, virtually nonexistent. They are exciting to think about and provide good plots for novels. But in reality, it is so impossible to keep a secret that involves more than one person, why would anyone believe that a complex process such as rigging an election could ever remain, if it could even start out, a secret? Everything leaks, sooner or later. If a "conspiracy" never leaks out, it was probably never a conspiracy to begin with.

INTP's supposedly like data. The data relating to the current crisis have been around for quite some time. There are $14 Trillion worth of real estate mortgages currently in the US. For some reason, Paulson et al. figured that 5% of these mortgages are bad bets and, thus, have asked for an infusion of $700 Billion of tax payers' money to prop up these supposedly bad bets. Is this the solution to the problem? I don't know and neither do you or anyone else, for that matter.

[kendoiwan]

Back to the OP. My theory about conspiracies is that they are largely theoretical, that is, virtually nonexistent. They are exciting to think about and provide good plots for novels. But in reality, it is so impossible to keep a secret that involves more than one person, why would anyone believe that a complex process such as rigging an election could ever remain, if it could even start out, a secret? Everything leaks, sooner or later. If a "conspiracy" never leaks out, it was probably never a conspiracy to begin with

I beg to differ. Back when everyone was talking about the coming of a paperless society, ID chips put under the skin, the existence of the Bilderburgs, the coming of martial law and various other "conspiracys" nobody believe it. Fast forward to now and The Real ID act is law, there are chips in our passports, chips in our money, civil liberties eroded and continuing to be eroded, credit and debit rapidly moving to replace paper money, The Bilderburgs went from denying they exist, to admitting they exist and just denying they have any agenda and influence, etc.

BTW I don't understand your statement about rigging elections, are you denying that elections can and have been rigged or suggesting something else?

[C.J.Woolf]

INTP's supposedly like data. The data relating to the current crisis have been around for quite some time. There are $14 Trillion worth of real estate mortgages currently in the US. For some reason, Paulson et al. figured that 5% of these mortgages are bad bets and, thus, have asked for an infusion of $700 Billion of tax payers' money to prop up these supposedly bad bets. Is this the solution to the problem? I don't know and neither do you or anyone else, for that matter.
The $700B figure works if:

1. The percentage of bad bets is correct and

2. The bad bets didn't artificially inflate the market value of the good bets.

But then I might be talking out of my ass. And Secretary Paulson might be talking out of his ass.

[Thevenin]

I beg to differ. Back when everyone was talking about the coming of a paperless society, ID chips put under the skin, the existence of the Bilderburgs, the coming of martial law and various other "conspiracys" nobody believe it. Fast forward to now and The Real ID act is law, there are chips in our passports, chips in our money, civil liberties eroded and continuing to be eroded, credit and debit rapidly moving to replace paper money, The Bilderburgs went from denying they exist, to admitting they exist and just denying they have any agenda and influence, etc.

BTW I don't understand your statement about rigging elections, are you denying that elections can and have been rigged or suggesting something else?

Because powerful and influential people get together at an annual conference to impress each other doesn't mean that they are conspiring. And I don't see how the existence of chips in passports or ID chips under the skin, etc. constitute a conspiracy. This violates the Occam's razor principle. More likely, these developments are a natural, if undesirable, result of technological capability mixed with excessive fear of terrorists and terrorism promulgated by the Moron and his administration.

There are just too many obnoxious, aggressive reporters and writers out there knocking themselves out to get the jump on, or beat, their obnoxious, aggressive competitors. So, according to my theory, to label something a "conspiracy" shouldn't be one's first hypothesis. It should be the last.

Sure, elections have been rigged, just think the Daley machine in Chicago or Boss Tweed and Tammany Hall in NYC. But, these are well known and were well known at the time and, thus, violate the surreptitious, covert or secret nature by which a conspiracy is defined. Even if they were secret at the time, they eventually were found out, and only then could be labeled conspiracies, which was my point. Thus, according to my theory, if an event is never found out to have been caused by conspiracy, choose another explanation first. In my experience, when people jump to the conclusion that a conspiracy has occurred, it is usually based on emotion and not logic based on data.

[kendoiwan]

Because powerful and influential people get together at an annual conference to impress each other doesn't mean that they are conspiring. And I don't see how the existence of chips in passports or ID chips under the skin, etc. constitute a conspiracy. This violates the Occam's razor principle. More likely, these developments are a natural, if undesirable, result of technological capability mixed with excessive fear of terrorists and terrorism promulgated by the Moron and his administration.

There are just too many obnoxious, aggressive reporters and writers out there knocking themselves out to get the jump on, or beat, their obnoxious, aggressive competitors. So, according to my theory, to label something a "conspiracy" shouldn't be one's first hypothesis. It should be the last.

Sure, elections have been rigged, just think the Daley machine in Chicago or Boss Tweed and Tammany Hall in NYC. But, these are well known and were well known at the time and, thus, violate the surreptitious, covert or secret nature by which a conspiracy is defined. Even if they were secret at the time, they eventually were found out, and only then could be labeled conspiracies, which was my point. Thus, according to my theory, if an event is never found out to have been caused by conspiracy, choose another explanation first. In my experience, when people jump to the conclusion that a conspiracy has occurred, it is usually based on emotion and not logic based on data.


I would agree with you if they weren't being denied at the time of the original assertions and still being denied to this day. It seems to me that you're arguing that Fait accompli means something can't be a conspiracy?

[Thevenin]

My point is that you can label an event a conspiracy when you have data that prove it to have been so. Absent those data, there are usually better explanations for an event than a conspiracy. That is because secrets are hard to keep.

Most often, what you see is what you get. For example, the current loss of individual liberties in the US is more likely a result of overreaction to excessive fear on the part of Bush (i.e., Cheney) and his minions rather than conspiracy. This is unsurprising considering their authoritarian personalities. A fearful authoritarian is, indeed, dangerous. A "fearful authoritarian" is probably an oxymoron if not a moron.

[kendoiwan]

My point is that you can label an event a conspiracy when you have data that prove it to have been so. Absent those data, there are usually better explanations for an event than a conspiracy. That is because secrets are hard to keep.

Most often, what you see is what you get. For example, the current loss of individual liberties in the US is more likely a result of overreaction to excessive fear on the part of Bush (i.e., Cheney) and his minions rather than conspiracy. This is unsurprising considering their authoritarian personalities. A fearful authoritarian is, indeed, dangerous. A "fearful authoritarian" is probably an oxymoron if not a moron.

But by it's very nature it's difficult to have the data. All you have is the trend or event itself. For instance on face value 9/11 was what it was, but when you go digging you find things that point in another direction. But to actually have said evidence to prove it, you need a whistle blower. That is the very reason it is and was difficult to prosecute the mob, it's hard to prove a conspiracy...

[Thevenin]

But by it's very nature it's difficult to have the data. All you have is the trend or event itself. For instance on face value 9/11 was what it was, but when you go digging you find things that point in another direction. But to actually have said evidence to prove it, you need a whistle blower. That is the very reason it is and was difficult to prosecute the mob, it's hard to prove a conspiracy...

I understand what you're getting at. OTOH, the data that have been uncovered about 9/11 explain, with the least assumptions, 9/11 most simply as being planned and financed by Bin Laden and al Quaeda. A few here and many in the Middle East have instead invented a conspiracy theory about 9/11 being caused by the US and/or Israel. To me, this is a ridiculous contrivance based on emotion and not fact.

[kendoiwan]

I understand what you're getting at. OTOH, the data that have been uncovered about 9/11 explain, with the least assumptions, 9/11 most simply as being planned and financed by Bin Laden and al Quaeda. A few here and many in the Middle East have instead invented a conspiracy theory about 9/11 being caused by the US and/or Israel. To me, this is a ridiculous contrivance based on emotion and not fact.

But not to me. Our military wing is fully capable of such a thing i.e. "Operation Northwoods". If Kennedy would've signed off on it, we'dve had a terrorist incident caused by the "Cubans". So in my mind if it's possible the question becomes "is it likely" and looking at the cast of characters we're dealing with and their particular track records in the context of the big picture (those with power and agendas being willing to do anything to preserve one and advance the other) it's not much of a stretch. So on and etc...

[Ferrus]

The notion that Al Quaeda was some giant, ultra-well organised group with massive bunkers in the mountains of Afghanistan was however false. Largely connected to earlier incidents and FBI manipulations - to get certain punishments on certain members of those who bombed the WTC they needed to prove they were a criminal organisation, plus exaggerated confessions from a turncoat with an axe to grind, which were later seized upon by the neo-conservatives as political golddust to further their aims.

Check out 'The Power of Nightmares'. Quite an excellent analysis all round.

http://www.ufppc.org/content/view/3394/

http://www.archive.org/details/ThePowerOfNightmares

[Thevenin]

I guess my bottom line is I want data upon which to work my logic. When data are unavailable, I'm willing to have no opinion and keep the question open. Speculation, however, is useful because it motivates the collection of data. But, speculation should not be allowed to morph into a conclusion. Thus, speculation is best expressed as a question (e.g., hypothesis) that is either answered with current data or remains unanswered until additional data are collected and available.

[dscotese]

Back to the OP. My theory about conspiracies is that they are largely theoretical, that is, virtually nonexistent. They are exciting to think about and provide good plots for novels. But in reality, it is so impossible to keep a secret that involves more than one person, why would anyone believe that a complex process such as rigging an election could ever remain, if it could even start out, a secret? Everything leaks, sooner or later. If a "conspiracy" never leaks out, it was probably never a conspiracy to begin with.

I guess my bottom line is I want data upon which to work my logic. When data are unavailable, I'm willing to have no opinion and keep the question open. Speculation, however, is useful because it motivates the collection of data. But, speculation should not be allowed to morph into a conclusion. Thus, speculation is best expressed as a question (e.g., hypothesis) that is either answered with current data or remains unanswered until additional data are collected and available.

It is so refreshing to see someone actually change, however slightly. Congratulations on being one of the few capable of it (though I suspect that capability is rampant on this INTP board. Go us!!)

Conspiracy Theory is theoretical. So is our model of the atom. This doesn't indicate non-existence. It indicates that it has not been adequately disproven to be ruled out. It's also not a conclusion. In any case, I find it useful to have a working conclusion, and mine often lies with a conspiracy theory, especially when things go horribly wrong without any help from mother nature. Humans are capable creatures. Try conspiring with someone and you'll see how easy it is. Then imagine that you have $1B to play with. Finally, pretend that everyone else is just livestock.

Ok, so when you talked about data and keeping secrets and all that, I thought of the boar being hunted by the wolves who, we know, conspire to trap the boar. The boar simply is not intelligent enough to recognize that the wolves are working together. Had it a concept of luck, it would conclude, as it was being eaten, that it's very unlucky.

I share your skepticism, and I keep an eye out for any explanation for all the strange things which, in my mind, are best explained by the conspiracy theories. Strange things include:

the magic bullet
the ever increasing tax burden even while technology advances at an ever faster rate
the heat signature in the WTC rubble
the photo showing a demolition-style cleanly cut steel beam support in the background
Heavy criticism of the 9/11 commission report
Bush's refusal to let Ms Rice testify to the commission under oath

... as well as the following facts:

short selling stabilizes prices, helps identify unproductive businesses, and encourages paying dividends (which also stabilizes prices), but they banned it anyway.
WTC 7's collapse was ignored completely at first
Three buildings fell on the same day into their own footprints.
video footage from security cameras all around the WTC has been kept from the public
I myself sometimes avoid pointing out truth that ought to be spoken because I fear for my well being.
Trillions of dollars have been transferred through taxation from private citizens with no connection to the government into the hands of people heavily involved with the government as a result of 9/11, in the "War on Terror."
Every sector of the economy has had bubbles and meltdowns except the military-industrial complex.


Damn it. Now I depressed. I better go put my gun in the safe. My kids still need me. I'm kidding.

[kendoiwan]

PZxacn4zkYc

[kendoiwan]

http://www.geocities.com/area51/Shadowlands/6583/project079.html

[kendoiwan]

XAiVO-UU2QI
:mellow:

[jyakulis]

XAiVO-UU2QI
:mellow:

Man you think that's crazy. bill cooper was talking about rfid chips like 15 years ago. He was an ex navy intelligence officer and at one point Bill Clinton called him: ". . . the most dangerous radio host in America". Anyway, you can read his book for free here. It's awesome.

http://www.conspiracyresearch.org/forums/index.php?act=attach&type=post&id=470

He also was a key figure in starting the militia movement in the 90's after waco. These guys don't seem so crazy anymore lol.

obOFZY77tnQ

JNs8t13y8lM

JxXcDqOKj-Y

zpIsOpRm_LI

oc9OjyQAxpQ

Hah, listen to the guy to the guy at 6:45 talking about the national debt and hyperinflation. That sounds familiar.

[jyakulis]

Because powerful and influential people get together at an annual conference to impress each other doesn't mean that they are conspiring. And I don't see how the existence of chips in passports or ID chips under the skin, etc. constitute a conspiracy. This violates the Occam's razor principle. More likely, these developments are a natural, if undesirable, result of technological capability mixed with excessive fear of terrorists and terrorism promulgated by the Moron and his administration.



this guy thinks otherwise:

'We are grateful to the Washington Post, The New York Times, Time Magazine, and other great publications whose directors have attended our meetings and respected their promises of discretion for almost forty years....It would have been impossible for us to develop our plan for the world if we had been subject to the bright lights of publicity during these years....The supranational sovereignty of an intellectual elite and world bankers ... is surely preferable to the national autodetermination practiced in the past centuries.'" ~David Rockefeller

[kendoiwan]

http://www.financialsense.com/editorials/droke/2008/0519.html


According to the Australia.TO newspaper, as reported in the May 2008 Last Trumpet Newsletter (LTM), several congressmen were so incensed about what was discussed behind those doors that they were compelled to leak the contents of the meeting. Following is what is rumored to have been discussed: Imminent collapse of the U.S. economy by September 2008; imminent collapse of the U.S. Government finances by February 2009; possibility of civil war within the U.S. resulting from the collapse; detainment of “insurgent U.S. citizens” in anticipation of their moving against the government; the potential for violent action taken by citizens against members of Congress due to the collapses; the merger of the U.S. economy with those of Canada and Mexico as a solution to the collapse; the introduction of a new tri-national currency called the “AMERO” as another economic solution.

[ryan_m_parr]

http://www.financialsense.com/editorials/droke/2008/0519.html

It is indeed a very real possibility.

It doesn't mean that if things don't go exactly as planned, that this wasn't exactly what was being discussed, though most certainly many of the major events under Bush Jr. are exactly what has been leaked out at some point or another. In other words, many things are premeditated.

Many of the Bush Executives have notable service in either the Pentagon or the CIA. Many of the conspiracy theories and questionable associations to secret societies aren't as far fetched as some like to believe.

[Chunes]

http://www.financialsense.com/editorials/droke/2008/0519.html

Awesome! I am soooo looking forward to this shit.:banana:

[Dark Razor]

http://www.financialsense.com/editorials/droke/2008/0519.html

This website (http://www.leap2020.eu/GEAB-in-English_r25.html?PHPSESSID=ac821f3bda66b5a7f4b8fba881783f37) also looks potentially interesting, they have been predicting collapse of the US for some time now, though the site is only partially available without subsciption.

[kendoiwan]

http://www.globalgrey.com/quotes-conspiracy.html

[kendoiwan]

8n-nT-luFIw

[Ferrus]

'According to the Australia.TO newspaper... possibility of civil war within the U.S. resulting from the collapse'

'Crickey!'

[kendoiwan]

http://www.cbn.com/cbnnews/news/041210a.aspx

[ryan_m_parr]

http://www.cbn.com/cbnnews/news/041210a.aspx

Wonders, if there have been $20 floating around with RFID (which I'm still doubtful of,) is it possible they could have been used to test out a monitoring system, in the event that such a thing as VeriChip becomes introduced?

[kendoiwan]

Wonders, if there have been $20 floating around with RFID (which I'm still doubtful of,) is it possible they could have been used to test out a monitoring system, in the event that such a thing as VeriChip becomes introduced?

No need. They're already in passports, all drivers licenses to be issued after January, I believe, you won't be allow on a plane without it. It's in alot of debit and credit cards too. No escaping it really. But it aint going under my skin voluntarily...

[ryan_m_parr]

No need. They're already in passports, all drivers licenses to be issued after January, I believe, you won't be allow on a plane without it. It's in alot of debit and credit cards too. No escaping it really. But it aint going under my skin voluntarily...


IF there is a conspiracy that legitimately agrees with the theory/hypothesis, that any entities willing to comprise of secretive action overtly, directed at the people's perception of religious lore and mythology, primarily acts upon the symbolic level of interest. That if they are indeed trying to mimic the events interpreted by religious radicals, and persuade those that the "end is near" any "Mark of the Beast" would just as well be an implied suggested meaning used to round up those that aren't compliant, and to assume anyone "paranoid" of the possibility they are being watched, could just as well be rounded up and sent to a psychiatric facility or something (I don't relate to this possibility, nor have I ever been, though that is probably what would happen, even if there were some truth to the advancement of technology.)

Perhaps this Verichip could be exploited using monitoring tactics, similar to Minority Report

[kendoiwan]

IF there is a conspiracy that legitimately agrees with the theory/hypothesis, that any entities willing to comprise of secretive action overtly, directed at the people's perception of religious lore and mythology, primarily acts upon the symbolic level of interest. That if they are indeed trying to mimic the events interpreted by religious radicals, and persuade those that the "end is near" any "Mark of the Beast" would just as well be an implied suggested meaning used to round up those that aren't compliant, and to assume anyone "paranoid" of the possibility they are being watched, could just as well be rounded up and sent to a psychiatric facility or something (I don't relate to this possibility, nor have I ever been, though that is probably what would happen, even if there were some truth to the advancement of technology.)

Perhaps this Verichip could be exploited using monitoring tactics, similar to Minority Report

Over my cold dead body:mellow:

[purveyor of truth]

Over my cold dead body:mellow:

Same here but I aint goin down alone. It'll cost em.

[kendoiwan]

Same here but I aint goin down alone. It'll cost em.

plenty of us out there feel the same. Fact. :highfive:

[dubbeltop]

Conspiracy Theory Ideas

Televisions...mmmh ....

[dscotese]

Obfuscation RFID (Orfid), a company I will form in the future, provides RFID and Verichip duplication services. There will be a one-time fee associated with reverse engineering the device, after which copies can be made for a few dollars each. Orfid will obviously have to be a black market operation, but that hasn't stopped Cannabis, Poppy, and Coca dealers. In fact, their businesses are booming! I hope I get some of the people here to help me out with it.

[kendoiwan]

Obfuscation RFID (Orfid), a company I will form in the future, provides RFID and Verichip duplication services. There will be a one-time fee associated with reverse engineering the device, after which copies can be made for a few dollars each. Orfid will obviously have to be a black market operation, but that hasn't stopped Cannabis, Poppy, and Coca dealers. In fact, their businesses are booming! I hope I get some of the people here to help me out with it.

:ph34r:

[kuranes]

http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/sideshow/rfk-assassin-sirhan-sirhan-alleges-conspiracy-theory-seeks-160638113.html

[D33P7HR047]

http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/sideshow/rfk-assassin-sirhan-sirhan-alleges-conspiracy-theory-seeks-160638113.html

Holy crap; didn't expect to see this.

[kuranes]

Holy crap; didn't expect to see this.When I saw that you had posted in the thread ( not long after I did ) I assumed you were going to try to tie ACORN to this, too, heh........

I remember the story ( told to a news feature guy years later ) of one guy there, who was a brief witness, and was being interviewed. He said that, after he told police what he saw, there was one aggressive guy who kept contradicting him, and saying "No, don't you remember seeing so and so instead ?" and so he said they wouldn't let him go ( as night turned into day ) until he finally relented and said the version they wanted to hear. I can't remember who he was. A waiter or busboy perhaps ......

You can use burundanga ( zombie dust ) to to put people into a state like Sirhan claims he was in.

[Roger Mexico]

Oh, necro thread. I was gonna be all "Heyyyyy, POT's back!"

Now that I'm here, I do have something I'd like the conspiracy types here to chew on for me:


I'll have to post a link later, but I read in my local paper that Norwegian prosecutors may be declining to prosecute Hans Anders Breivik (who bombed a government office and then went on a shooting spree at a summer camp run by the ruling Labor party) and are instead likely to recommend psychological treatment rather than prison.

To me, this either proves that every stereotype of Scandinavia as ultra-progressive is true, or suggests funny business. (Unless they're running scared of some right-wing terrorist network of whose existence I am at this moment unaware.)

Now, keep in mind that, IIRC, the guy did claim to be affiliated with the Knights Templar.

So, basically, WTF?

[Roger Mexico]

Oh, come on, people. Who doesn't love conspiracy theories?

Sirhan Sirhan's lawyers are making new arguments that he was "Hypno-Programmed" (http://news.yahoo.com/could-robert-f-kennedys-assassin-hypno-programmed-171004430.html).

That's alternately amusing or genuinely interesting, depending on your perspective, right?