where to put your money

[drdolittle]

One of the giant brains in congress finally suggested it. They suggested that 401k plans be used to minimize the tax shortfall. It was just an off the cuff suggestion with no details worked out yet but seemed to say they would either discourage 401k investment so as to get the taxes that are being deferred immediately. There was even a suggestion that people be "offered" a plan to change their stocks into T bills, something that would likely be mandtory shortly thereafter. Now seems as good a time as any to pay the 10%, the income tax and take money out of the 401k plan. I think it's probably best to get it out of the Patriot acted, warrentless searching and wiretapping, homeland securitized United States (I was born here and will always love this land but one has to be prudent). My question is where to take the money. Switzerland maybe, the rest of europe is as toast as we, China seems to lack respect for life or liberty... Maybe South America.
Anyone with vast international travels or an understanding of foreign governments, please weigh in.

[Ferrus]

In other words, the US government is offering forced loans? Good god I thought those died with 18th century France.

[Ghost-Girl]

Where to put your money
You saying I should reconsider my mattress stuffing?

[avolkiteshvara]

Take your money out and invest in boxes of Capt'n Crunch. Those never go down in value.

[2hype]

Buy Forever stamps!

[digitalentropy]

Comic books. As long as they're not *current Marvel you're good.

[thod]

My choice would be stay out fo shares. If you must have them then stick to companies with must have products. Utilities such as water and electricity. Drug makers, since people cant stop taking medications etc

I would put 10% into gold, I am a gold bug. Cash is going to be king, yet holding USD is a big risk. I tend to favor JPY and CHF so move part of your savings into other currencies, what you gain on one you lose on the other.

[mancroft]

Gold.

[Autumn]

Uhmmm btw, how does one buy gold? And where?
I mean I'm imaging pure gold, not in the form of jewels. Or did you mean jewels?

[garak]

Uhmmm btw, how does one buy gold? And where?
I mean I'm imaging pure gold, not in the form of jewels. Or did you mean jewels?

You should buy gold bullion coins like krugerrands. In the US you can just go to a gold dealer but I'm guessing it differs in other countries depending upon the law. In the US for a few decades after the great depression, it was illegal to own physical gold.

[Nomadic]

I use goldmoney.com - you buy gold off the company, and they store it for you in a vault in London or Switzerland for a nominal fee. You can buy and sell instantly over the internet.

Owning kruggerrands in your home is certainly worthwhile if you think we're going to end up with such a bad economy that paper currency becomes worthless. Emergency funds in a real crisis. I guess gold is pretty useful in Zimbabwe for instance and, in the absence of a stable currency refugees would probably find it useful to pay their way somewhere safe.

But I don't see it as economical to own the physical coins in your own home now. Reason is that you've probably got to pay for delivery fees, consider somewhere secure to store it, insurance in case of fire or theft etc.

Plus it's much harder to sell the physical stuff quickly. Gold also loses some value once it leaves the hands of reputable dealers, due to concerns about fraud.

[Ferrus]

Also, beware that gold could easily lose its value in the long run too. Lots of people lost good money on the unreasonable assumption that the price of houses would always increase, don't fall into the same trap with gold. Keep watching the signals and get inside advice so you can prepare early if possible.

Me? I'd invest it in government bonds here. The government hasn't repudiated them in the 400 years it has issued them, and certainly under even worse situations (massive wars and financial collapses) than what is currently being experienced. Plus the interest rate is a little higher of late.

[digitalentropy]

The problem with gold is the way the price fluctuates on a day-to-day basis. It's so expensive right now (compared to silver), my boss only makes gold jewelry as special order, because no one is buying it.

[Nomadic]

Over the past year, gold started at $750 per ounce. Climbed to $1000 by March, dropped to $850 by April, climbed to $970 again in July, dropped all the way down to $750 in August, recently shot back up to over $900, but is now back down to $840 or so.

It's true it's a volatile market, but many markets are. It's a question of doing your research and go with your judgement to buy when you see value, and equally to sell when you see value. I thought deeply about selling when it hit $1000/oz. I thought it was either going to see a rush to sell or a rush to buy. I was kicking myself when I called it wrong, but my position was still healthily in profit even when it plummeted.

In less than three years, my gold holding has increased in value by 45%. When I cash some in, it's tax free (in the UK at least). I'm holding for a while longer though. Gold is gold - it will always have intrinsic value. I certainly trust its value a lot more than paper currency at the moment

Although, for all I know, gold might now stagnate or drop for months or years on end...

[eyebyte_atWork]

I like gooooold!


http://forums.intpcentral.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=6866&stc=1&d=1223999641

[MadamI'madaM]

toilet paper

just make sure it's at least moderately softer than the dollar and you're set

[MountainHiker]

If things go really bad the best investment you can make is in your health and fitness. Get the Lasik surgery done now. Get any other health and medical needs tended to now.

The Peak Oil folks have covered these topics over and over again. Here's a link to a decent forum if you're interested: http://www.peakoil.com/forum8.html

Here's a list I've found on various websites that someone from Serbia (? I believe, but I might be wrong) once wrote during their war troubles and it seems reasonable:

Top 100 Items to Disappear First During a National Emergency

1. Generators (Good ones cost dearly. Gas storage, risky. Noisy...target of thieves; maintenance etc.)
2. Water Filters/Purifiers
3. Portable Toilets
4. Seasoned Firewood. Wood takes about 6 - 12 months to become dried, for home uses.
5. Lamp Oil, Wicks, Lamps (First Choice: Buy CLEAR oil. If scarce, stockpile ANY!)
6. Coleman Fuel. Impossible to stockpile too much.
7. Guns, Ammunition, Pepper Spray, Knives, Clubs, Bats & Slingshots.
8. Hand-can openers, & hand egg beaters, whisks.
9. Honey/Syrups/white, brown sugar
10. Rice - Beans - Wheat
11. Vegetable Oil (for cooking) Without it food burns/must be boiled etc.,)
12. Charcoal, Lighter Fluid (Will become scarce suddenly)
13. Water Containers (Urgent Item to obtain.) Any size. Small: HARD CLEAR PLASTIC ONLY - note - food grade if for drinking.
16. Propane Cylinders (Urgent: Definite shortages will occur.)
17. Survival Guide Book.
18. Mantles: Aladdin, Coleman, etc. (Without this item, longer-term lighting is difficult.)
19. Baby Supplies: Diapers/formula. ointments/aspirin, etc.
20. Washboards, Mop Bucket w/wringer (for Laundry)
21. Cookstoves (Propane, Coleman & Kerosene)
22. Vitamins
23. Propane Cylinder Handle-Holder (Urgent: Small canister use is dangerous without this item)
24. Feminine Hygiene/Haircare/Skin products.
25. Thermal underwear (Tops & Bottoms)
26. Bow saws, axes and hatchets, Wedges (also, honing oil)
27. Aluminum Foil Reg. & Heavy Duty (Great Cooking and Barter Item)
28. Gasoline Containers (Plastic & Metal)
29. Garbage Bags (Impossible To Have Too Many).
30. Toilet Paper, Kleenex, Paper Towels
31. Milk - Powdered & Condensed (Shake Liquid every 3 to 4 months)
32. Garden Seeds (Non-Hybrid) (A MUST)
33. Clothes pins/line/hangers (A MUST)
34. Coleman's Pump Repair Kit
35. Tuna Fish (in oil)
36. Fire Extinguishers (or..large box of Baking Soda in every room)
37. First aid kits
38. Batteries (all sizes...buy furthest-out for Expiration Dates)
39. Garlic, spices & vinegar, baking supplies
40. Big Dogs (and plenty of dog food)
41. Flour, yeast & salt
42. Matches. {"Strike Anywhere" preferred.) Boxed, wooden matches will go first
43. Writing paper/pads/pencils, solar calculators
44. Insulated ice chests (good for keeping items from freezing in Wintertime.)
45. Workboots, belts, Levis & durable shirts
46. Flashlights/LIGHTSTICKS & torches, "No. 76 Dietz" Lanterns
47. Journals, Diaries & Scrapbooks (jot down ideas, feelings, experience; Historic Times)
48. Garbage cans Plastic (great for storage, water, transporting - if with wheels)
49. Men's Hygiene: Shampoo, Toothbrush/paste, Mouthwash/floss, nail clippers, etc
50. Cast iron cookware (sturdy, efficient)
51. Fishing supplies/tools
52. Mosquito coils/repellent, sprays/creams
53. Duct Tape
54. Tarps/stakes/twine/nails/rope/spikes
55. Candles
56. Laundry Detergent (liquid)
57. Backpacks, Duffel Bags
58. Garden tools & supplies
59. Scissors, fabrics & sewing supplies
60. Canned Fruits, Veggies, Soups, stews, etc.
61. Bleach (plain, NOT scented: 4 to 6% sodium hypochlorite)
62. Canning supplies, (Jars/lids/wax)
63. Knives & Sharpening tools: files, stones, steel
64. Bicycles...Tires/tubes/pumps/chains, etc
65. Sleeping Bags & blankets/pillows/mats
66. Carbon Monoxide Alarm (battery powered)
67. Board Games, Cards, Dice
68. d-con Rat poison, MOUSE PRUFE II, Roach Killer
69. Mousetraps, Ant traps & cockroach magnets
70. Paper plates/cups/utensils (stock up, folks)
71. Baby wipes, oils, waterless & Antibacterial soap (saves a lot of water)
72. Rain gear, rubberized boots, etc.
73. Shaving supplies (razors & creams, talc, after shave)
74. Hand pumps & siphons (for water and for fuels)
75. Soysauce, vinegar, bullions/gravy/soupbase
76. Reading glasses
77. Chocolate/Cocoa/Tang/Punch (water enhancers)
78. "Survival-in-a-Can"
79. Woolen clothing, scarves/ear-muffs/mittens
80. Boy Scout Handbook, / also Leaders Catalog
81. Roll-on Window Insulation Kit (MANCO)
82. Graham crackers, saltines, pretzels, Trail mix/Jerky
83. Popcorn, Peanut Butter, Nuts
84. Socks, Underwear, T-shirts, etc. (extras)
85. Lumber (all types)
86. Wagons & carts (for transport to and from)
87. Cots & Inflatable mattress's
88. Gloves: Work/warming/gardening, etc.
89. Lantern Hangers
90. Screen Patches, glue, nails, screws,, nuts & bolts
91. Teas
92. Coffee
93. Cigarettes
94. Wine/Liquors (for bribes, medicinal, etc,)
95. Paraffin wax
96. Glue, nails, nuts, bolts, screws, etc.
97. Chewing gum/candies
98. Atomizers (for cooling/bathing)
99. Hats & cotton neckerchiefs
100. Livestock

[avolkiteshvara]

Uhmmm btw, how does one buy gold? And where?
I mean I'm imaging pure gold, not in the form of jewels. Or did you mean jewels?

At the gold mine of course.......duhh.

[MountainHiker]

Uhmmm btw, how does one buy gold? And where?
I mean I'm imaging pure gold, not in the form of jewels. Or did you mean jewels?

Decent coin stores sell it. However, expect to pay a premium over spot price. There's a lot of debate right now over the COMEX spot price that you will see listed on financial websites and the actual street price of gold. Many folks are accusing COMEX of keeping paper gold prices low to keep up the facade that the economy isn't as back as expected. So, while the financial websites might list gold as $845 or so, you are going to pay at least $900 and possible much more for actual physical coins. I am hearing that silver and gold bullion are drying up so you might want to get moving if you plan to buy.

This is just what I've heard. I bought my metals a few years ago and am just sitting on them.

[pioneer_167]

The best investment is land. There are very few situations when the value of land will drop significantly.

[garak]

Plus it's much harder to sell the physical stuff quickly.
Wha? You can just walk to your local gold dealer and hand it over. Easy. Although I guess it's not as fast as clicking a button on a computer.



So, while the financial websites might list gold as $845 or so, you are going to pay at least $900 and possible much more for actual physical coins. I am hearing that silver and gold bullion are drying up so you might want to get moving if you plan to buy.

Looks like the difference between buy/sell prices for a 1oz coin is only around $20 right now. I'm not sure how much this gap fluctuates but I don't think I've ever seen it as high as you say ($50-ish).

Seems true that coins are drying up. These guys have even taken all gold coin "sell" prices off their page, except for gold eagles and maple leafs (I know this to be unusual for them): http://www.ajpm.com/htbin/gold.cgi

I just don't understand why the prices aren't shooting up if the coins are supposedly hard to come by. I guess bullion coins are a small part of the overall gold market?

[MountainHiker]

Looks like the difference between buy/sell prices for a 1oz coin is only around $20 right now. I'm not sure how much this gap fluctuates but I don't think I've ever seen it as high as you say ($50-ish).

My mistake. I was going off of quotes from folks posting on websites. Many were complaining of paying high fees over spot. I haven't stopped in to buy gold in a while. Thanks for the info.

As for land being the best investment, gold doesn't require you to pay property taxes and you can hide it. Yes, land is good, but the government can easily confiscate it from you either physically, or by raising the taxes so high you can't pay them. Don't expect the government's ideology concerning private property to remain intact.

I don't know what the absolute best investment is, except living the best life you can. They can't take that away from you. Yes they can physically kill you, but you've still lived well to that point. After contemplating this question for some time in years past, that's about the best answer I came up with. It's what I'm striving for these days.

[jyakulis]

I just don't understand why the prices aren't shooting up if the coins are supposedly hard to come by. I guess bullion coins are a small part of the overall gold market?

this is a good article:
http://seekingalpha.com/article/91357-the-disconnect-between-supply-and-demand-in-gold-silver-markets?source=yahoo

There is a huge demand for both gold and silver right now in India and North America. North American shops are completely bare of silver. Indian shops are empty of both silver and gold. Even the Indian banks don't have any gold or silver. The big western bullion banks, based in New York and London, control both the gold and silver trade. Reports from India are that they are refusing to extend Indian bank lines of credit, forcing the small banks to deliver to clients, collect money, and pay down lines of credit, before being allowed to take delivery of another gold or silver shipment. This is very abnormal. Normally, if a banker’s bank knows that its customer-bank has firm orders, it would extend the smaller bank a bigger line of credit. Not now.

By refusing to extend lines of credit, the big bullion banks are essentially rationing a very thin supply. Most physical silver, for example, is being reserved for industrial and fabrication use, and investors are simply not able to get any, without waiting for months. Investor oriented shops are bare, and the U.S. Mint has suspended coin production. All available supply seems to be reserved for industrial users. You cannot substitute paper claims for real silver, in industrial use, because paper doesn’t have the physical properties of silver. So, it seems that all available supply is being diverted to industrial users, and, to a lesser extent, aside from the squeeze on lines of credit, also to jewelry fabricators. But, investors are left out in the cold. They can accept paper claims, or nothing. The most interesting mistake that the manipulators have made is in not supplying the U.S. Mint, which has run out of silver, proving that there is a severe shortage.

Meanwhile, by refusing to extend Indian bank lines of credit, Indian jewelry demand for both gold and silver is being stymied. India is not being allowed to drain away precious metals, in the amounts that are warranted, given the low prices and the numbers of unfilled orders that are sitting on desks in India. World bullion banks, in other words, are managing deliveries of physical gold and silver to artificially reduce the quantities delivered, under the excuse that the “Indians have run down their credit lines.”

The happiest fact of bullion bankers’ lives is that western markets are, with the exception of some fabrication and industrial demand, almost 90% paper based. The huge COMEX futures market almost never sees an ounce of real silver or gold ever change hands. It is all paper, shuffled back and forth. These paper markets are being flooded with paper based "claims" to alleged gold and silver, supposedly being held in big bank vaults in London and New York City. The market is overwhelmed with paper claims, and the big bullion banks (maybe, with the Federal Reserve providing the money?) are paying big bucks to secondary derivatives dealers to get them to lease this artificially created “gold and silver.” In a normal market, one who leases a thing of value must pay for it. But, now, derivatives dealers are being paid to lease both gold and silver. Then again, it may not be a thing of value, if it is fake…

That being said, the paper claims may have a lot of value, whether or not they are fake. Derivatives dealers can write futures contracts, options, etc., according to CFTC rules, because paper "claims" to vault-stored silver and gold can be used as the legally mandated "cover" for futures contracts. To understand the nature of paper claims, we must travel back in time, for a moment, to a class action against Morgan Stanley (MS). According to the complaint, Morgan Stanley claimed that it bought physical silver, on behalf of various clients, and was storing it, in safe-keeping, in its vault in New York. Allegedly, Morgan Stanley defrauded its clients from Feb. 19, 1986, and Jan. 10, 2007. According to the complaint, it never bought any silver, but, all the while, continued to charge clients big fees for storing the imaginary metal. Morgan Stanley is one of the biggest investment banks in the world. It is one of the major players in precious metals. Yet, according to the lawsuit, the paper claims to vaulted silver it issued to clients was nothing more than a lie. One of Morgan Stanley’s defenses, interestingly enough, was that everything it did simply followed “standard industry practices.” For more information, see here.

Apparently, it is standard Wall Street industry practice to send people monthly statements promising that the firm is storing physical precious metals in a vault, charge for the storage, but really never buy or store any real metal. Morgan Stanley eventually settled the case for many millions of dollars in damages, rather than going to trial. That tends to indicate that they were guilty, as charged. I believe, with good reason, as you shall soon see, that most of the paper claims to silver and gold, now floating about, and collapsing prices, are cousins to the Morgan Stanley silver claims.

Logic tells us that the so-called metal must be imaginary, and I will soon tell you why. Yet, for some reason, in spite of class actions like the one described above, no one demands to see it. The majority assumes that banks, like Morgan Stanley, are honest, and would not issue fake paper claims. But, if they did it before, they are probably doing it again. That could be the key to precious metal market manipulation.

If you are a huge bank, with hundreds of billions of dollars worth of short positions, and you know the price is going to explode, you can do one of two things. You can be honest, like most individual and institutional short sellers must be, and cover your short position by buying back at market prices even though you may take losses to do so. Or, you can be dishonest. The majority of banks and hedge funds don’t have the option of being dishonest, even if they want to be.

However, what if you happen to be a primary dealer of the Federal Reserve, or the ECB, or the Bank of England, or all three? If you are, then you happen to have overwhelming knowledge and control of the marketplace, because your divisions are deeply enmeshed in the global financial trading system, and your powerful computers allow you to analyze all markets in a matter of minutes or even seconds. You have an ownership stake in all the big markets like the New York Stock Exchange, Nasdaq, COMEX, NYMEX, and the London Metals Exchange.

Unlike a small or medium sized institutional investor, you are in a position to be dishonest, if you choose to be, and in a position to profit from your dishonesty. Because all orders flow, at one point or another, through your firm or one of a handful of other big wire houses, you will know where the stop-loss triggers of non-affiliated long and short sellers are. With this in hand, you are ready to manipulate any market, especially small commodity markets like gold and silver.

The first thing you need to do is issue large numbers of false paper claims to allegedly stored gold and silver in your vault. This gold and silver really doesn’t exist, but it doesn’t matter because you are a big prestigious bank, and no one questions you when you say it is in your vault. You offer these claims for “lease” to any secondary dealer willing to take you up on it. You don’t want to sell them outright, because then you might eventually be faced with a demand for the real metal, as Morgan Stanley was. You don’t actually have enough real metal to cover these claims, so, you want to make sure that the operation takes place in a limited time frame. That’s why you “lease” the claims for a term of months. If you find that small dealers are afraid to lease such claims, you encourage them by subsidizing the leases with a negative interest rate. In other words, you pay them to accept your alleged gold and silver.

This is exactly what is happening in the precious metals market, right now. Gold and, especially, silver leases are being subsidized. As of a week ago, if you are a dealer, and you lease gold or silver, from the bullion banks, incredibly enough, THEY WILL PAY YOU! At the end of this article, I have attached a chart, showing the current negative lease rates for the various metals. Dealers who lease claims to fake metal, are able to issue futures contracts and other derivatives. The fact that they hold contractual claims to metal means they will have fulfilled the “cover” requirement imposed by their federal regulator, CFTC. The CFTC has never bothered to audit a vault to see if the gold or silver is really there, so you’ve got nothing to worry about. You’re a big bank! You say it is there. Everyone believes you, just like Morgan Stanley’s customers believed them. You might even be Morgan Stanley.

At any rate, you initially issue a lot of claims to fake metal, and so many futures contracts are written, in a very short time period, that they flood the market on exchanges like COMEX and the London Metals Exchange, where almost all the transactions are on paper, and real metal rarely changes hands. Meanwhile, if you are the big bullion bank, you know what you are doing. You issue just enough subsidized precious metal paper to automatically trigger stop-loss orders. The price starts going down as the sell orders are filled. That triggers yet more stop-loss orders, and the process becomes one of dominos, falling one after another, until the price collapses. If the operation is successful, and the collapse is big enough, market confidence is destroyed, on a wide scale.

The destruction of market sentiment won’t last forever. You can’t fool all the people all of the time. But, temporarily, having been burned badly, investors refuse to buy. Buying may still be happening on the real market, as it is, in both America and India, in gold shops. True physical metal will still be in severe shortage, so the metal will disappear quickly, as the price goes down below where true market forces should be bringing it to reach equilibrium between supply and demand. But, real market buyers look to the COMEX and the London Metals Exchange, because they think they are honest exchanges, even though they may not be.

Prices on those exchanges will determine prices charged in shops, and when the price goes down deeply, there isn’t enough product to go around, because everyone buys it. In other words, supply and demand go into disequilibrium, there isn’t enough supply to meet the demand at such low price points, so delays in delivery, as well as outright shortages result. That is what is happening, right now, in the physical gold and silver market. Not only to retail investors, but, also, even to the U.S. Mint, which has suspended production of gold coins, and is rationing silver coins.

At any rate, when market confidence is damaged sufficiently, we can move in. We unwind our new short positions in the futures market, by buying back huge number of long positions at very low prices on the COMEX. We also unwind an exponentially larger number of positions inside the shadow world of "dark pools", which are little known secretive private exchanges, controlled by the big banks. It ended up costing us some money, but not a lot compared to the money we’ve avoided losing. We’ve paid subsidies on the leases, but we’ve never actually had to buy the gold or silver, because there isn’t any available, and none in our vault. This is the way that a group of big bullion banks could induce a price collapse to unwind hundreds of billions of dollars worth of potential losses, or position themselves to go long on hundreds of billions of dollars worth of potential profits.

Contrary to the pundits at CNBC, Bloomberg, etc., the price of gold really has nothing to do with the value of the dollar or the value of oil. It doesn’t matter what the dollar is worth, in relation to euros, pounds sterling or Zimbabwee money. It only matters what supply and demand factors exist for gold. Yes, the demand will fall a bit if the price goes up, for example, in euros, because the euro has depreciated. But, what really counts is not what the euro, yen or dollar price is, but, rather, whether or not there is enough demand to soak up the available supply.

Gold is priced in dollars, but, so long as people holding either dollars, euros, yen, yuan or Zimbabwean money, are willing to pay whatever price gold is selling for, in an honest market, the price should rise. Obviously, enough people are willing to pay for gold and silver, at the previous $978 and $19.50 per troy ounce price, because the U.S. Mint could not source enough metal at those price, and had to suspend coin production.

This proves that people are more than willing to fork over, in whatever currency they are using, the previous prices for gold and silver, in such quantities, that a shortage was already existing, before the price collapse, especially in the silver market. It is true that people in poorer countries like India, might have back on their consumption.

But, while they were cutting back, demand and consumption of gold in North America, including Canada and the USA, was soaring. For example, before it suspended production of bullion coins, due to shortages, the U.S. Mint’s statistics show that it was printing 2.5 times as many gold coins, and almost 4 times as many silver bullion coins, this year, compared to last year. Gold and silver bullion, in bar form, was also flying off North American retail shelves.

Bottom line: Enough people were buying, when the price was high, to exhaust the supply. Basic economics says that, in a free market, this means the price must rise.

But we don’t live in a world of free markets. Instead, we are living in an Orwellian 1984 double-speak world. Welcome to the world of Fed/PPT, where 2+2=5, blue is yellow, and black is white. All things are as they say they are, rather than as they really must be. Welcome to the world of a controlled business media, where the pundits will do anything and say everything to convince you to forget your math, and your eyesight. No, they tell you. It really isn’t so. What you’re seeing isn’t the way it is. Believe, instead, what we tell you. We can do it! We have special skills. There is a new world order. We can make 2+2=5. Just give us your money, and we’ll show you how!

But, let’s return to reality. Right now, virtually no North American precious metals dealer can give you a firm delivery date on large quantities of silver. They have no stock to sell. This means demand is robust. On Friday, as the COMEX gold price was collapsing, the U.S. Mint suspended gold bullion coin production because it cannot source enough gold bullion! That could not happen if bullion banks were selling claims to real physical metal into the marketplace. Indeed, the Mint began rationing silver bullion coins two months ago, when it started having trouble sourcing silver bullion. Word from the Perth Mint in Australia is that it is taking weeks or months to take physical delivery of gold and silver, even though investors are already supposed to own that metal. Supposedly, it is simply being kept in the Mint's vault for safe storage. But, it is getting harder to take it out of “storage”. Meanwhile, as previously stated, Indian gold and silver dealers, wholesalers and banks all have empty vaults. None of this can happen if demand is down, and supply is abundant.

We have a disconnect between reality markets and fantasy markets. The COMEX and London Metals Exchange are fantasy markets controlled by the big bullion banks. They must be engaged in market manipulation, because nothing can explain a big price collapse, in the midst of widespread shortages and robust demand. A group of big financial institutions, deeply enmeshed in the global trading system, and heavily involved in the gold and silver market, must be deliberately inducing temporary panic, for their own purposes. These malevolent characters will eventually be able to buy back their short positions at low prices, and, possibly, also, even collect a significant long position. The process is a continuing one, and hasn’t stopped yet. On Friday, for example, the subsidy for leasing gold and silver was raised to very high levels.

It is obvious what they are doing. More important, however, is why? What does it mean? Well, the PPT bank executives are generally “people in the know” about financial events, before they actually happen, sue to close relations with regulators like the Federal Reserve, and FDIC. They folks are so desperate to cover short positions, that they are willing to spend a billion or so dollars, subsidize precious metal leases, to collapse the market, and destroy investor confidence. But, why? We know that the Federal Reserve, like other central banks, sees gold as a rival to the dollar. But, that’s not enough, because they’ve never attacked precious metals with such ferocity as now, and, if the Fed were directly involved, they could probably supply real metal.

If something terrible is about to happen in the financial world, the losses that big banks would take on their precious metal short positions would put most of them into bankruptcy. Remember the words of Warren Buffett. Derivatives are the financial world’s weapons of mass destruction. Precious metals futures short positions are highly leveraged transactions that could cost hundreds of billions if the price of gold were to suddenly explode.

We can guess that the main players here are big powerful Wall Street and/or High Street investment banks who work closely with the Federal Reserve, the ECB, and the Bank of England. These people are privy to the information needed to carry out a massive manipulation as described above. No one else is. Since most of the collapse happens on the COMEX, we can assume that most of the manipulation is being done by New York based investment banks.

Wall Street’s investment banks control most of the world's gold and silver markets. They are also entrenched in the overall mesh of all financial markets. Making matters worse, because of the 1987 President’s Executive Order on Working Markets, they are authorized to work together, and in conjunction with the U.S. Treasury and the Federal Reserve, to manipulate markets without fear of criminal prosecution. They know exactly where the stop-loss orders are, and how much flooding of paper claims for gold and silver would be needed to trigger them. They are, therefore, perfectly positioned to carry out the nefarious scheme I have outlines. The ultimate aim, of course, would be to destroy investor confidence, by collapsing the price for a few weeks. This would allow them to unload their own exposure at a very low cost, while the majority of market participants are temporarily shell-shocked, and in retreat.

As noted above, they are not using real gold or silver to do this. That implies that this particular attack on gold was not authorized by the Federal Reserve. They’ve never had any real silver and have used paper claims for years to manipulate that market. But, gold has often been supplied out of the U.S. hoards at Fort Knox, West Point, or the NY Fed. I suspect all three have had their gold hoard so heavily loaned and swapped out, that there is little or no physical gold left to play with. That’s why the Federal Reserve has been pushing for the IMF gold sales. The vaults are probably already filled with IOUs from the likes of Goldman Sachs, JP Morgan, etc. Perhaps, that is why the Treasury Department lists total U.S. gold holdings as "gold and gold swaps", and refuses to disclose details how much consists of real gold and how much consists of swap IOUs (loaned out gold). But, anyway, the lack of physical gold probably implies that the Federal Reserve is not involved directly, because they probably still have enough to flood the market for a week or two.

But, it’s not cheap to manipulate markets. It will probably cost over a billion dollars to subsidize the negative lease rates. The only logical reason to spend such a huge amount of money, is if you are going to get an even bigger benefit from doing so. They must be very worried about losing far more. Once again, that implies that some VERY bad economic news is about to be released. Skeptical? How much worse can the economy get? It can get much worse! So, what’s in store? A series of huge bank failures, maybe? IndyMac collapsed two weeks ago. Are we going to see the collapse of Washington Mutual (WM)? National City Bank (NCC)? Someone else?

I don’t know. But, I do know this. The FDIC will not have enough cash to make good on its insurance pledges, if they fail. The FDIC only has $37 billion left in its trust fund, after paying off IndyMac depositors. Between its two major divisions, WaMu has total deposits of about $204 billion. National City has about $101 billion. Could FDIC turn to the Federal Reserve for a quick loan? Not a chance! The Fed has its own problems. It has already polluted its balance sheet with some $450 billion in low value and absolutely worthless mortgage paper that its client banks wanted to get rid of.

Depositors might wait months for their money, while Congress is petitioned to approve the sale of more Treasury bills. This delay would be likely to cause other depositors to make a run on other banks, creating a domino effect. Then, more banks might fail. More bank failures will require yet more dollars, and cause more delays in making depositors whole. At the very least, the sudden issuance of $300 billion new dollars would stimulate massive inflation. Under such circumstances, gold could be expected to explode to the $2 - $3,000 per troy ounce range, within a matter of a few weeks or months.

also: http://www.cnbc.com/id/15840232?video=880574352&play=1

[Ferrus]

If things go really bad the best investment you can make is in your health and fitness. Get the Lasik surgery done now. Get any other health and medical needs tended to now.
Well if it gets that bad gold will be worthless, except to throw at peoples head.

As for the Lasik eye surgery - a far cheaper and more efficient method will be to buy spare glasses and lens. Especially considering that the surgey has to be repeated throughout life anyway, you may as well accept your short sightedness like every other generation before you has, including those who were hunter gatherers. Indeed in those conditions mild short-sightedness isn't much of a handicap anyway, as the ability to see in detail as a hunter is only needed a short distances, with the main distance seeing limited to animals whose basic form is visible anyway. Which is almost certainly why it didn't die out.

[MountainHiker]

Well if it gets that bad gold will be worthless, except to throw at peoples head.

As for the Lasik eye surgery - a far cheaper and more efficient method will be to buy spare glasses and lens. Especially considering that the surgey has to be repeated throughout life anyway, you may as well accept your short sightedness like every other generation before you has, including those who were hunter gatherers. Indeed in those conditions mild short-sightedness isn't much of a handicap anyway, as the ability to see in detail as a hunter is only needed a short distances, with the main distance seeing limited to animals whose basic form is visible anyway. Which is almost certainly why it didn't die out.

True on the eyesight thing, but I'm 47 and that would have made me an old-timer in hunting and gathering level societies. Don't most folks in those societies die early?

I'm hoping we don't disintegrate to those levels and things like gold and silver and books don't become meaningless. That's a long way to fall from here. If we do fall that far a lot of people are going to vanish and most others will have a really, really hard time if they did survive. I'm not sure much but the experience itself can prepare most any of us for such a drastic change in living.

[Ferrus]

True on the eyesight thing, but I'm 47 and that would have made me an old-timer in hunting and gathering level societies. Don't most folks in those societies die early?
Yes, but not for want of decent eye-sight one the whole.

[TryIt]

We have a disconnect between reality markets and fantasy markets. The COMEX and London Metals Exchange are fantasy markets controlled by the big bullion banks.

I have to agree with your article. Kitco metals and BullionDirect are both running out of stuff to sell. Why is that? Because the price is too low, in the public's view. It's the Crimex phenomenon.

Kitco does have 1000 oz silver bars. That's about the only silver I know of that is available near the spot price. Gold doesn't have quite the shortage problem. I think even palladium and platinum are harder to find near spot than gold judging by the dealer inventories (sold out at those I check) and scanning ebay.

I'm bullish on all the precious metals, and I own some of each...I think a lot of people are simply sick of the current banking system and the fiat currencies. It's not hard to see why.

[Limey]

Top 100 Items to Disappear First During a National Emergency...

That was like INTJ porn.
Thanks!

[A Schnitzel]

That was like INTJ porn.
Thanks!

Uh-oh!

The wife's not getting any tonight.

[Curtis24]

Under the mattress.

[Ptah]

"Invest" in a large private stock of non-perishable food and weaponry (including lots of ammunition). Time permitting, martial arts training and a mountain cabin near a deep, natural cave.

[Limey]

"Invest" in a large private stock of non-perishable food and weaponry (including lots of ammunition). Time permitting, martial arts training and a mountain cabin near a deep, natural cave.

Is "invest" another masturbation euphemism?
You can't have too many, that's what grandma says.

[garak]

Is "invest" another masturbation euphemism?
You can't have too many, that's what grandma says.

Has "INTJ" always been in your avatar?

[Ptah]

Is "invest" another masturbation euphemism?
You can't have too many, that's what grandma says.

Heh. While my usage of the term "invest" is not as you suggest, that is not to say that I left sexual gratification out of the equation. Implicit in the investment suggest I made before was magazine-form porn and/or a willing partner of the preferred gender, although one requires additional drawing from the food resources and the other does not...

[Limey]

Heh. While my usage of the term "invest" is not as you suggest, that is not to say that I left sexual gratification out of the equation. Implicit in the investment suggest I made before was magazine-form porn and/or a willing partner of the preferred gender, although one requires additional drawing from the food resources and the other does not...

That's why I became a little disillusioned with the 100 list above. In a real disaster, (potentially without power) hand cream and old skool printed porn will command a premium, even the classic stuff with the big hair and multi color striped leg warmers, (Olivia Newton John "Physical" themed/spandex et al).


Has "INTJ" always been in your avatar?

No, it used to read, "evil empire" - FWIW, I also vaingloriously digitally altered the young man.

[garak]

No, it used to read, "evil empire" - FWIW, I also vaingloriously digitally altered the young man.
Ok. I just wanted to make sure I wasn't THAT oblivious.

[Autumn]

I found out that one can buy gold bullions at the pawn office here.
Guess what, they are out of it right now so I'm late.

That phantom gold article didn't help to brighten my picture of the future...

IMO (physical) gold is very practical during an economical crisis. Sure it's value fluctuates but it'll never fall to zero - unlike paper money. It's portable hideable dividable and generally accepted as means of exchange.

[jyakulis]

I found out that one can buy gold bullions at the pawn office here.
Guess what, they are out of it right now so I'm late.

That phantom gold article didn't help to brighten my picture of the future...

IMO (physical) gold is very practical during an economical crisis. Sure it's value fluctuates but it'll never fall to zero - unlike paper money. It's portable hideable dividable and generally accepted as means of exchange.

Look to break it down simply you got an 850 billion dollar bailout package (bloomberg reports in reality up to 5 trillion), 3 days prior to the bill you have the fed pumping 680 billion in, then another 500 billion a week later, you got a trillion dollar a year military ependitures, entitlements that are going to go out of control, and then the feds just dolled out another 750 billion to partially nationalize banks. On top of all of this the US is losing it's world reserve currency status, which means we can't export inflation over seas anymore. In short our currency is completely fucked. Despite whatever the paper values say in the short term it's pretty much irrelevant because it doesn't take a rocket scientist to see that we'll EVENTUALLY have rampant inflation.

I like junk silver to have around the house. US coins pre 1964 had 90% silver in them: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kennedy_half_dollar

Silver content: 11.25 g (0.3617 troy oz) they are probably worth about 5 dollars a piece now roughly.

That's probably your best option for just spending. For storing wealth you want something like gold. Silver takes up too much space. The platinum spot price is only 100 bucks over gold but good luck finding any. You will be hard pressed.

[Autumn]

Sry, I meant that my view of the future is pessimistic.

I'm not in a situation to stack up gold. All I have is a ~2000EUR emergency reserve. I thought about converting a small portion (say 400EUR) into gold, but it's only self-delusion as it wouldn't protect me from anything anywayz...

[Archvile]

it wouldn't protect me from anything anywayz...
That's why I'd prefer Ptah's idea. (stockpiling necessities)

.

[Limey]

That's why I'd prefer Ptah's idea. (stockpiling necessities)

.

One simply needs a disaster recovery pickax
to tunnel into Ptah's booty, or any other hoarders booty/cache.

[omnirook]

Ireland. Switzerland. Anywhere where the government allows deposits w/o requiring that income be reported to the depositor's nation of origin. Also - cash. Keep a sizable amount on hand. Yes, it's not easy to secure cash, so be creative.

Most important: learn to spend CASH. Get out of the habit of charging/debiting - ie, creating an electronic record of your purchases, your spending habits. This information IS being compiled, and there is no telling how it will be used against you. We do everything in CASH. If a charge card is required, we use a company card and reimburse the company. We do not belong to any of the discount "clubs" - those are nothing but information gathering put across as a way of getting sales. Psst - most "sales" are BULLSHIT. Learn to shop for the items that you like and use. You wind up SAVING that way.