Intelligence, Wisdom, and Charisma

[paladinoflunaria]

Definitions could get hairy, so...


Intelligence determines how well you learn and reason. Wisdom describes a person's willpower, common sense, perception, and intuition. While Intelligence represents one's ability to analyze information, wisdom represents being in tune with and aware of one's surroundings. An "absent-minded professor" has high intelligence but low wisdom. A simpleton (low intelligence) might still have great insight (high wisdom). Charisma measures a person's force of personality, persuasiveness, personal magnetism, ability to lead, and physical attractiveness. Charisma represents actual strength of personality, not merely how one is perceived by others in a social setting.

Somewhat vague, I suppose, but it will do.


A person with high intelligence is curious, knowledgeable, and prone to use big words. A person with high intelligence but low wisdom may be smart but absentminded, or knowledgeably but lacking in common sense. A person with high intelligence but low charisma may be a know-it-all or a reclusive scholar. A person with a high intelligence but lacking in both wisdom and charisma may put his foot in his mouth often. A person with low intelligence mispronounces and misuses words, has trouble following directions, or fails to get the joke.

A person with high wisdom may be sensible, serene, "in tune," alert, or centered. A person with high wisdom but low intelligence may be alert, but simple. A person with high wisdom but low charisma knows enough to speak carefully, and may become an advisor rather than a leader. The wise person lacking in both intelligence and charisma is both uncouth and unsophisticated. A person with low wisdom may be rash, imprudent, irresponsible, or "out of it."

A person with high charisma may be attractive, striking, personable, and confident. A person with high charisma but low intelligence can usually pass himself off as knowledgeable, at least until a true expert shows up. A charismatic person with low wisdom may be popular, but he doesn't know who his real friends are. A charismatic person lacking in both intelligence and wisdom is likely to be shallow and unaware of others' feelings. A person with low charisma may be reserved, gruff, rude, fawning, or simply nondescript.

Which two attributes are most important to the INTP? What about other personality types? Are there better ways to define these attributes?

I'd say that INTPs have moderate-to-high in all three attributes, but mostly intelligence and wisdom (Ti and Ne).

[Crazy]

Intelligence and wisdom. An INTP may have high charisma, but it is not all that important. Especially the more introverted ones.

[MasterMerk]

Intelligence first, Wisdom close second.

Charisma is a may or may not have thing with INTPs, I believe.

[jittus rye]

What functions give high levels of charisma? Intuition/Percieving combination?

[Johnny]

I'd consider extraversion as the most important indicator of charisma, so the INTP would possess average to below-average charisma. It's a toss-up for wisdom and intelligence. I understand so far that INTP's preference for Ti is just that - a preference. I'm not sure it's also necessary to claim that Ti is the strongest function as well. Maybe Ne is the strongest, though it is not so well favored...

On that note, maybe extraversion is not so easy to identify with real charisma either...

[paladinoflunaria]

On that note, maybe extraversion is not so easy to identify with real charisma either...

One with charisma can seem as one without charisma. One without charisma can't seem as one with charisma. It is possible to be introverted and have charisma.

I think that intellegence, then wisdom, makes the most sense.

This begs the question: Who is able to manipulate people? See the poll.

[antireconciler]

It's strange how, to some extent, each can compensate for others.

I'm more introverted than not, and don't have high chrisma because I have little use for it. I'm repeled by situations that make use of it.

I find wisdom most important to me, and intellegence second, but I'm more Nine than Five, barely INTP, and find limited use for either system.

Wisdom's a strange one, though. Claim you have it or don't and you don't.

[Miss Padfoot]

I definitely have more intelligence than wisdom or charisma. I have hardly any charisma, especially when communicating with large groups. I can be very likeable one-on-one, but only to a certain kind of person, and that kind of person usually appreciates my intelligence.

I don't think that alertness and insight (both of which you called wisdom) are all that related. Insight sounds like more of an Ne thing, but alertness seems more Se.

[Birdsnest]

Charismatic people must want to be noticed. That is the opposite of me, I really don't like being noticed.

Can anyone give an example of a celebrity with a lot of charisma?

[paladinoflunaria]

Miss Padfoot wrote:

I don't think that alertness and insight (both of which you called wisdom) are all that related. Insight sounds like more of an Ne thing, but alertness seems more Se.

I know what you mean. I guess wisdom is essentially perception, so it can be through Sensing or Intuition. I would guess that more intelligent types have the insight-wisdom and possibly alertness-wisdom, while a dumb person is more likely to have alertness-wisdom, and they may have neither.

Charisma isn't the desire for attention, it's just how one affects others, as well as strength of personality. I'd say INTPs probably have some charisma, because as a rare type, one has to be fairly strong in his personality. If people think you're weird, there's some charisma going on, as you inadvertently affect other people- get them to notice you.

[antireconciler]

I'd say INTPs probably have some charisma, because as a rare type, one has to be fairly strong in his personality. If people think you're weird, there's some charisma going on, as you inadvertently affect other people- get them to notice you.

That's clever. I think charisma has more to do with an ability to build rapport with people you talk to. This means they have to be able to identify with you. If they think you are weird, it is somewhat opposite. Charisma is, perhaps, your ability to mirror people, an almost lack of solid differentiated identity, or weakness of personality.

[Crazy]

I'd say INTPs probably have some charisma, because as a rare type, one has to be fairly strong in his personality. If people think you're weird, there's some charisma going on, as you inadvertently affect other people- get them to notice you.

That's clever. I think charisma has more to do with an ability to build rapport with people you talk to. This means they have to be able to identify with you. If they think you are weird, it is somewhat opposite. Charisma is, perhaps, your ability to mirror people, an almost lack of solid differentiated identity, or weakness of personality.

That all depends on the kind of wierdness. If it is wierd, but some quality that the person would like to have themselves, that can be charasmatic.

[Birdsnest]

Went to get a definition of the word charisma:

Charisma n : a personal attractiveness that enables you to influence others
cha•ris•ma n. pl. cha•ris•ma•ta (-m -t )
1. a. A rare personal quality attributed to leaders who arouse fervent popular devotion and enthusiasm. b. Personal magnetism or charm: a television news program famed for the charisma of its anchors.

2. Christianity. An extraordinary power, such as the ability to perform miracles, granted by the Holy Spirit.

[Greek kharisma, divine favor, from kharizesthai, to favor, from kharis, favor. See gher-2 in Indo-European Roots.]

I think it depends on where I am and the type of people I am around. I do not have influence on people in South Georgia. I did have it in California, where people were more like myself. I noticed I had a LOT of charisma in Dallas when I visited, but not much in Seattle this summer. So I think its something that feeds on an energy of you get from others. Or, is it self generated regardless of reciprocity? I feel much more charisma when I am greeted nicely by others.

If I have any charisma here where I am in, its a very quiet charisma. I do have high intelligence but my lack of charisma in this location works more against me than for me.

Sorry, I may be totally off the point, maybe I find charisma to be elusive if I ever had it to begin with.

[Johnny]

...maybe I find charisma to be elusive...

I agree with this. Charisma seems to be a circumstantial thing. Osama Bin Ladin is reputed to be a very charismatic person, with many people watching him and appearing to listen intently to his every word, but the camera's vision is arranged for this impression. Take also the example of Saddam Hussein, his appearance and demeanor when he was captured as opposed to his appearance before our invasion - then defiant, strong, apparently unshakeable. We could perhaps cite virtually any US President here as well.

I didn't know that charisma and Christ had a connection. I think that says much about the nature of charisma as we understand it...

[Miss Padfoot]

"Charisma n : a personal attractiveness that enables you to influence others"
"1. a. A rare personal quality attributed to leaders who arouse fervent popular devotion and enthusiasm."
I think that answers our questions. If someone is weird in a way that alienates others, that's not attractive and it doesn't arouse devotion or enthusiasm. Therefore it's not charismatic.

I agree with Johnny, who said extraversion is the most important factor in charisma. It just makes sense. An introvert may be likeable and persuasive, but he can't get people to follow him on the merit of his personality alone.

[antireconciler]

I'd say INTPs probably have some charisma, because as a rare type, one has to be fairly strong in his personality. If people think you're weird, there's some charisma going on, as you inadvertently affect other people- get them to notice you.

That's clever. I think charisma has more to do with an ability to build rapport with people you talk to. This means they have to be able to identify with you. If they think you are weird, it is somewhat opposite. Charisma is, perhaps, your ability to mirror people, an almost lack of solid differentiated identity, or weakness of personality.

That all depends on the kind of wierdness. If it is wierd, but some quality that the person would like to have themselves, that can be charasmatic.

As we are, we are all charismatic to someone. Charisma, as a skill, is based off our ability to be charismatic to those increasingly different in personality from those who would find us charismatic as we are, exclusive of charisma itself.

[paladinoflunaria]

You guys get wound up in too many specific scenarios. Enigma is an attractive thing, sometimes. I'd say all famous leaders have some "weird" things about them. Either way, just because you have charisma doesn't mean you have to be a leader.

I'll jump on the stupid wagon and cite an example.

I'm a senior in high school. Today was my first day and I have an independent study: English class. In this class I sit in with the AP English class. I took AP English last year, and I am using IS as a way to take another English class, sense I've taken the most advanced class the school has to offer. But I digress.

My teacher wants me to lead discussions for half of the class, because the class is too big to do a small discussion in just one group. When she told me this, people immediately said, "I want to be in his group." Just because I am an introvert doesn't mean that I'm repulsive, or even disagreeable. I want to get away from people, but people want to come to me. I don't have to like it, but that's the way it is. I haven't conversed with these people very much in the entirety of my life, and yet there's still something there. It makes me an even stronger introvert, too, which makes things worse. Ah well.

Edit: By the way, I'm not leading discussions just because I'm experienced. I'm leading discussions on things the AP English class didn't do last year. I didn't suggest this to the teacher, the teacher suggested this idea for me.

[paladinoflunaria]

There's something strange about it, too. I seem to attract girls somewhat well (at least smarter ones, and not even smart ones sometimes), even "pretty" ones. I've also never dated a girl (or anything remotely close) in my life. I'm not gorgeous, but I'm not ugly either. It can't be my acne, because I've had this attractive-thing all my life, and my acne has been non-existent until this year. What the hell?! I hate people.

[jittus rye]

I think it is because we're so different, they can't help but want to get it on with something good.

[jimkopelli]

Remember those chicks at Pummill Relays? You ladies man, you. I, personally have a problem with stalkers occasionally. But the thing is, it's only annoying if you let it be. I don't mind the attention, sometimes it can be flattering, even... in moderation.

[paladinoflunaria]

Jimkopelli wrote:

Remember those chicks at Pummill Relays? You ladies man, you. I, personally have a problem with stalkers occasionally. But the thing is, it's only annoying if you let it be. I don't mind the attention, sometimes it can be flattering, even... in moderation.

I was watching tv :ph34r: a few nights ago. I watched "Family Guy." It was the episode in which the dog (Brian) is dating a girl and he is discussing opera. She obviously has no clue and is shallow, and she attempts to BS her way through the conversation. Nice try, but Brian sees through (of course). So he gets up and leaves. Later Lois asks him about his date, and he says his dates wouldn't be so bad if he could date a girl that wasn't an idiot.

Granted I'm curious and want to experiment, I feel the same way as Brian did. I suppose I might be coaxed into trying most things at least once, but I have extreme doubts as to whether such relationships will be satiable. Ultimately I realize that no relationship can give me what I want, but stupid Fe and the desire to empathize and have intimacy comes into play.

I'll kill ye yet, Fe.

[antireconciler]

I'll kill ye yet, Fe.

Such feeling.

... because self-rejection brings us happiness and self-acceptance ... or something. :huh:

[allendobkin]

I prefer not to define myself in the terms of a DnD Character Sheet!

[Dengarm]

I agree that Intelligence is the most important, but I think Wisdom (as origionally defined) is the most admerable.

P.S. Go d20 stat definitions!