Sad.

[Avengardh]

http://www.comcast.net/news/index.jsp?cat=GENERAL&fn=/2005/03/22/87588.html

Someone told me it was a bad link....so, therefore, here are the basics:




10 Dead in Minn. Teen Rampage, Police Say

By JOSHUA FREED, Associated Press Writer

Mon Mar 21, 11:23 PM
UPDATED -3 HOURS -13 MINUTES AGO

BEMIDJI, Minn. - A high school student went on a shooting rampage on an Indian reservation Monday, killing his grandparents at their home and then seven people at his school, grinning and waving as he fired, authorities and witnesses said. The suspect apparently killed himself after exchanging gunfire with police.

It was the nation's worst school shooting since the Columbine massacre in 1999 that killed 13 people.

[Shai Gar]

not really.

[CapnEnnui]

Kids!
I don't know what's wrong with these kids today!
Kids!
Who can understand anything they say?

[Shai Gar]

i am better than your kids

[ApeTheDog]

Yes, it's sad. I've noticed that the amount of hate in society has gone up a lot, and I think the blame for that lies in the rapidly increasing individualism of everybody in society. Many people now are thinking they should only take care of themselves and that they can learn everything they need from books and movies, rather than from other people. I think this is the cause of the hatred in the world - selfishness almost automatically leads to less empathy for other people, since that would require you to care for them as well as yourself, and that leads to being unreasonable. Which leads to hatred. Which, in my opinion, leads to violent outbursts such as this.

I don't think that this type of thing could have happened in the society of 1000 years ago, even if they had had guns then. Hmm. In fact. It doesn't happen in scandinavia and many other countries right now, which is even more relevant.

[nBT]

yeah sad. bored. or no attention given to at home. or wrong references given at home (like mtv, lol) or too strict parenting. or joey found a gun in daddy's drawer.

aint it the defenition of youth to invent life? they are now inventing death, and it works. im a little confused how the hell they gotten so egoistic, unable to see others. its not that these killers are introverts.

[Lee]

I don't think that this type of thing could have happened in the society of 1000 years ago, even if they had had guns then. Hmm. In fact. It doesn't happen in scandinavia and many other countries right now, which is even more relevant.
:huh: You only need to skim over a few pages in almost any history book to realise thats a mistaken belief you have there, people were far more brutal in our past than they are now, especially when taken in the context of population size. Statistically you are far less likely to be murdered now than almost any other time in history.

[PonderBee]

Certainly there were cries for help from the boy that commited this shooting.
The boy was living with his grandparents - who were found dead from gun shot injuries. Reportedly, his father committed suicide less than 1 year ago. His mother is lingering in a nursing home with severe brain damage from a relatively recent trauma (? carr accident I think). The guns used belong to the boy's grandfather, a police officer. Witnesses are saying that this kid was shunned and bullied by the majority of his peers. There are approximately 300 students enrolled in this high school.
My question is when will "society" begin to use simple math in order to identify, reach out to and support such children in need before they reach the point of no return?

[Architectonic]

I agree with Lee, although it is rather hard to say if you actually are less likely to be murdered today, this is also highly dependent on the society that you live in.

Unfortunately the reality is that people have had certain instincts that lead to selfishness (which lead to the many violent crimes over thousands of years) for a very long period of time and it may take a long period of time for this to change, if it even does.



My question is when will "society" begin to use simple math in order to identify, reach out to and support such children in need before they reach the point of no return?

I certainly will hope so, but it is very unfortunate that many people can only learn from their own experiences and not from the experiences of others.

[Shai Gar]

was bullied? and he killed people?

i blame the government.. no seriously, they try and support family values and support leading by example. well the government is killing people all the time who bully other people

why not kill a few bullies. the government does it

[Trolsk]

My question is when will "society" begin to use simple math in order to identify, reach out to and support such children in need before they reach the point of no return?
They wont; there is no simple solution, and these cases are rare. Other peoples' misfortunes matters less when society grows, and bullying will go on indefinitely.

[ApeTheDog]

:huh: You only need to skim over a few pages in almost any history book to realise thats a mistaken belief you have there, people were far more brutal in our past than they are now, especially when taken in the context of population size. Statistically you are far less likely to be murdered now than almost any other time in history.

You're probably right. I think this is a special type of violence that never existed in the past - killing your peers out of sheer rage and bitterness and then commiting suicide - and the reason why I think it never existed back then was because people have always needed friends and peers, and would not have cut into their own flesh like this.

They would be violent to strangers, or for motives of power, or just out of xenophobia - sure... but not to their own friends.

See. I don't mean to say that times were less violent back then. you're absolutely right about that. Just that the violence was different - not meaningless. Not against your own group.

That's just an opinion, though. I haven't done any research on this. It's just based on what little I know of the past, and on the principle that the more you (feel like you may) need other people's support, the less you will cause them such harm as to lose it. (As far as I can tell, these are probably the only times in which people do not feel like they need other people to survive)

[Architectonic]

I admire your credulity, but in reality, humans have always been rather violent. I do mean the same type of violence as you - meaningless violence, even against your own group.

[Eileen]

Wow, so some other kid who lives in my town killed his grandparents because of crack-cocaine this week... Sad indeed.

[jimkopelli]

I'm waiting for them to try and pin it on videogames again.

[Lee]

I'm waiting for them to try and pin it on videogames again.
It's always Doom, why Doom? why do the news companies always show Doom? hardly anybody really plays it anymore... I wan't them to try and pin it on Animal Crossing or Ico.

[Avengardh]

I'm tired of people blaming shit for what happens.

Some lady was completely blaming the Columbine kids' parents, I think the kids were responsible, sure, the environment had to do something with it, but damn it, the kids did it, they knew what the hell they were doing.

I was a freshman when that happened, and yeah, I went to a Jefferson County High School, and after that we had to wear IDs at all times and there were parents at each exit, as well as chains on the doors.

How the hell those chains were going to save us, beats me.
I agree, this has happened throughout history, and it won't surprise me when a copycat does something like this again.

What annoys me is when people start wearing things such as "We are Columbine" and shit like that when they weren't even there.
I wasn't there, and I am not Columbine, it affected me sure, this did too.

Social degradation is a fact, oh, and by sad I meant the human race ^_-.

[Lee]

I'm tired of people blaming shit for what happens.

Some lady was completely blaming the Columbine kids' parents, I think the kids were responsible, sure, the environment had to do something with it, but damn it, the kids did it, they knew what the hell they were doing.

Apparently more recent studies show that on average only about 5% of a persons personality is accounted for by parental influence, I found that suprisingly low, but it came from what seems a fairly trustworthy source*

*How the Mind Works - Steven Pinker (I recommend this :) )

[booyalab]

The Red Lake reservation is one of the poorest areas in the country and they have a horrible crime rate. I dont think most of the people I've talked to that have lived there or are familiar with the area are very surprised.

[Dman]

I'm waiting for them to try and pin it on videogames again.

That's ridiculous. Everyone knows it's directly due to that devil music, "rock and roll".

[ppc]

Wow, so some other kid who lives in my town killed his grandparents because of crack-cocaine this week... Sad indeed.

How can someone kill someone because of crack cocaine? Did his grandparents steal his crack cocaine?

[nBT]

maybe society is to blame, and that is never the work of one person
hmm what about child rearing in librarys and swimming pools

[Hamro]

compared to how many children who die in africa everyday, this is just pointless ramble. those are the real issues. WAIT! i forgot this was a whitetrash middleclassed disabled person in america. suddenly everyone cares. why? id say put her to death. what is the point if she cant even breathe on her on, when it has gone on for so long?

[MacGuffin]

compared to how many children who die in africa everyday, this is just pointless ramble. those are the real issues. WAIT! i forgot this was a whitetrash middleclassed disabled person in america. suddenly everyone cares. why? id say put her to death. what is the point if she cant even breathe on her on, when it has gone on for so long?:huh: You on the wrong thread or something?

Oh wait, you just got the most recent headline from the link. Helpful tip: read the thread first!

[Hamro]

:huh: You on the wrong thread or something?

Oh wait, you just got the most recent headline from the link. Helpful tip: read the thread first!

my defense is that i was lazy

[Avengardh]

Apparently more recent studies show that on average only about 5% of a persons personality is accounted for by parental influence, I found that suprisingly low, but it came from what seems a fairly trustworthy source*

*How the Mind Works - Steven Pinker (I recommend this :) )
Heh, I will quote this next time my mother says anything about me turning out the way I did because of them.

Hamro: There is a small summary on the first page of this thread.

[Dman]

:huh: You on the wrong thread or something?

Oh wait, you just got the most recent headline from the link. Helpful tip: read the thread first!

made it more interesting for a minute there

[Hamro]

i just clicked the link but didnt bother reading. its still not sad in comparison to how many other deaths occur in poor countries

[Network Alchemy]

i agree with hamro and eminem ~and look where its at middle america now its a tragedy now its so sad to see ~ an upper class city having this happening~ unless people begin crying about ghetto violence as well i feel i do not need to care about violence at any point in the strata

[CoHo]

I don't know if I'd call Red Lake an upper class city... err.. it has a poverty ratio of something like 40%

[Miss Anthropic]

:huh: You only need to skim over a few pages in almost any history book to realise thats a mistaken belief you have there, people were far more brutal in our past than they are now, especially when taken in the context of population size. Statistically you are far less likely to be murdered now than almost any other time in history.
Thanks for bringing that up Lee...Additionally the media we enjoy today that brings us up-to-the-minute information from all over the world spreads negative news in a way that never has been possible before radio/television and now the internet. We are aware of nearly every tragic event that occurs and it shapes our views of the world, ie; we are led to believe that today is the most tragic violent time in the history of the world. I firmly believe that humanity is essentially no better or worse than it ever was. The difference is today we are aware of virtually all the violent acts that occur. Bottom line: Humans are cruel to each other.