Abolish the official rules

[garak]

They are pretty common sense and I think it is unnecessary for us to put them in writing. People always say "isn't xyz against the rules?" and no one ever really enforces them strictly.

INTPs don't need rules. They are silly. Let's get rid of them.

[garak]

Alright, WHO VOTED NO?!

[Vagabond]

Me. ;P

[ppc]

I agree lets eat puppies - I don't see a reason we shouldn't.

Wait what? I thought we were voting on eating puppies?

[ppc]

Me. ;P

How dare you.

[garak]

Seriously though, I'd like to hear arguments for keeping the rules. I see no good reasons.

1. we don't need them -- we're mostly mature adults
2. even if we do occasionally devolve into idiots, no one ever whips out the rules and deals out punishment anyways
3. the rules are obvious and common sense

[Vagabond]

How dare you. I am a daring person.

garak: Normally I would agree. The rules got there after um... incidents... I don't think they oppress anyone really, but they are something to use in case new trouble arrives...

[MacGuffin]

The rules exist to deny trolls the classic defense: "No one said I couldn't post that!"

[heeroyuy]

The rules exist so people can't say the admins act unilaterally and remove content for no good reason. We can say "hey, you can't post that, see the rules." We talked about this before.

[misutii]

i think rather than a constant set of rules moderators should simply improvise on the spot and if someone gets angry about their post being taken down well i think it's comedic and it leads to entertaining arguments

[heeroyuy]

And if you do that, I think that most of the admins won't agree. The problem is that without rules, people blame us for CENSORING everything when in reality we'd be doing the same as if we had the rules. Therefore the rules stay.

[garak]

Why do admins need written justification if they only act in a sensible manner?

How does an excuse help a troll at all?

[garak]

And if you do that, I think that most of the admins won't agree. The problem is that without rules, people blame us for CENSORING everything when in reality we'd be doing the same as if we had the rules. Therefore the rules stay.
Then I call you a wimp. If you delete something then it obviously must be pretty damn bad, and the person arguing would just look like a retard.

[misutii]

And if you do that, I think that most of the admins won't agree. The problem is that without rules, people blame us for CENSORING everything when in reality we'd be doing the same as if we had the rules. Therefore the rules stay.

but i want a tyrannical figurehead of absolutism -_-
+462340943 points if (s)he dresses like Louis XIV

[file cabinet]

for the most part, the intp's here don't seem to have an actual need for the rules.. we can point to the rules when there is a problem if the need arises.. think of it as a necessary evil.

[SensEye]

The rules are not doing any harm, so why remove them?

[Crazy]

Even though INTP's a: are anti-authoritarian and have a tendancy to break rules anyway, and b: don't usually need them because we generally stay within sensible parameters without being told what they are, you also must realize that this is NOT an INTP exclusive site, and the forums are open to the general public. Any idiot can get on here and post (look at me for example :) ) so, in conclusion, we need the rules to keep everyone else in line when they visit our site.

[CreativeChaos]

The rules exist so people can't say the admins act unilaterally and remove content for no good reason. We can say "hey, you can't post that, see the rules." We talked about this before.

Yeah, this was talked to death before. No one need worry. If you do something against the "rules" you will be warned. So?

Then the admins can say exactly what you are doing and then just stop it, or post a "AM I breaking the rules?" poll, or whatever. Geeze!

Let them stay!

No, I didn't vote.

[Clara]

i think ... if someone gets angry about their post being taken down well i think it's comedic and it leads to entertaining arguments
Lovely. Thanks for pointing out, vividly, that we don't all share the same tastes, in "entertainment. <_< Note : I'm here -- by choice -- which means, I accept that everyone gets to express themselves however they see fit ( within the rules, as they stand ). However, there are quite a few people I would have liked to have had the opportunity to get to know a little better, who left before the rules got put into writing.

By the way, there are always rules. Writing them down means that everyone can see exactly what they are. And this actually protects those who step close to the limits... because, in an excess of irritation on the part of others, unwritten rules could be redefined to "include you** out."

** not "you" -- someone; but it doesn't sound the same, that way.

[booyalab]

The rules exist so people can't say the admins act unilaterally and remove content for no good reason. We can say "hey, you can't post that, see the rules." We talked about this before.
that's funny..because I dont remember having any say in what the rules would be.. :thelook:

(aka, the rules were a unilateral admin decision)

I've thought from the beginning that the rules are retarded and irrelevant
but I suppose I should just go along with them since my opinion doesn't matter :)

[tragula]

I think perhaps it's time to move the rules to the FAQ section or somewhere else a little less conspicous, and not sticky them above every section! They are just a bit in your face right now. Out of sight out of mind... until you need them.

[booyalab]

They are pretty common sense and I think it is unnecessary for us to put them in writing. People always say "isn't xyz against the rules?" and no one ever really enforces them strictly.

INTPs don't need rules. They are silly. Let's get rid of them.

why did it take so long for someone to make a thread about this?

Did you JUST NOW realize you dont like them?

[Crazy]

that's funny..because I dont remember having any say in what the rules would be.. :thelook:

(aka, the rules were a unilateral admin decision)

I think the rules are retarded and irrelevant
but I suppose I should just go along with them since my opinion doesn't matter :)
There may have been a reason for that. Who wants thier rules written by a Nazi Dominatrix?

(I wouldn't know cause I wasn't here yet)

[booyalab]

There may have been a reason for that. Who wants thier rules written by a Nazi Dominatrix?

(I wouldn't know cause I wasn't here yet)

lol......I dont think that I should have had say in the matter, necessarily, (my contribution would be along the lines of "thou shalt say whatever the fuck ye wanteth, but beware the inevitable wrath of collectively angry forum members")
I just wanted to point out that he was contradicting himself.

[Crazy]

lol......I dont think that I should have had say in the matter, necessarily, (my contribution would be along the lines of "thou shalt say whatever the fuck ye wanteth, but beware the inevitable wrath of collectively angry forum members")
I just wanted to point out that he was contradicting himself.
I understood, but I couldn't resist.

[booyalab]

I understood, but I couldn't resist.

now that I think about it...rules written by a nazi dominatrix might be an improvement on the current ones. (more interesting..at least) Except I'd have to dye my hair blonde.

[Crazy]

They say blondes have more fun!:devil:

[booyalab]

They say blondes have more fun!:devil:
if they're aryan blondes they also have genetic eccentricities, whoopdy doo!

[songbird36]

Seriously though, I'd like to hear arguments for keeping the rules. I see no good reasons.

1. we don't need them -- we're mostly mature adults
2. even if we do occasionally devolve into idiots, no one ever whips out the rules and deals out punishment anyways
3. the rules are obvious and common sense

So if someone is being constantly attacked or insulted by another (and I'm speaking hypothetically here), are you saying that situation should be allowed to continue unchecked until the object of the attacks is driven away?

[tragula]

I think people are suggesting that it revert back to a system of pack loyalties, where people form into gangs and rival gangs and duke it out for cold raw power that stirs up the bloodlust.

The advantages of that system is that it rewards people who spend a lot of time here. People who kiss up to admins. And people who just like being part of the INTP mafia.

As I have said, I do prefer rules, but the above IS another way to go...

[Edmond Zedo]

Most of those who voted for rules probably aren't INTP. Div, any help with that?

Songbird should be banned due to probable advanced mental illness and a definite tendency to post (!). Otherwise, just obvious trolls looking for attention.

[songbird36]

Songbird should be banned due to probable advanced mental illness and a definite tendency to post (!). Otherwise, just obvious trolls looking for attention.

QED.

[Edmond Zedo]

QED.
FYI, I don't know what that means.

[songbird36]

Look it up. It's Latin and it means "my point has been amply demonstrated".

Case closed.

[mgb]

Look it up. It's Latin and it means "my point has been amply demonstrated".

Case closed.

I thought we were speaking in hypotheticals here?

[songbird36]

I thought we were speaking in hypotheticals here?

Oh well this conversation is happening across a number of threads.

You had to be there I guess.

[mgb]

Oh well this conversation is happening across a number of threads.

You had to be there I guess.

Guess so.

[Edmond Zedo]

Look it up. It's Latin and it means "my point has been amply demonstrated".

Case closed.
I said probable advanced mental illness.

[songbird36]

That wasn't my point. You know what it is.

And perhaps you will ponder it while I am visiting my psychiatrist this afternoon for some more Lithium.

Learn to read yourself better, and perhaps we'll all be better off.

[Edmond Zedo]

And perhaps you will ponder it while I am visiting my psychiatrist this afternoon for some more Lithium.
Tell him it's ineffective!

[Utopmk]

Without them, and with time, this would start to seem alot more like a nerdy name calling match.


Woah -new idea for the playground..

[Edmond Zedo]

Without them, and with time, this would start to seem alot more like a nerdy name calling match.


Woah -new idea for the playground..
It's worse as is. You can't even call someone a fool for saying the most foolish thing in the world. They may never know they are a fool.

[Claverhouse]

Well, their choice of headgear might give them a clue.

:)



Claverhouse :ph34r:

[ Not that rules apply to certain of us ubermensch anyway. Beyond Good or Evil... ]

[Edmond Zedo]

I wear this hat because it fools people.

[Serotonin]

The rules are there to keep any wandering SJs in line, lest they let their inferior Ne out of the bag. Inferior Ne is one of the most cringeworthy things to witness.

[cjs55]

I witness it all the time from my ISTJ friend, and you are right, it's not pretty. Unfortunately he seems to be forced to let it out around me since that's the realm I'm often thinking in, and it's just miserable for all involved...

[Claverhouse]

The rules exist to deny trolls the classic defense: "No one said I couldn't post that!"
Actually, trolls don't get defences: I just set the goats on them.


Claverhouse :ph34r:

[Utopmk]

[ Not that rules apply to certain of us ubermensch anyway. Beyond Good or Evil... ]
8O

----------------------------------------------------------------------
Before there were rules, there was Universal. I think the old way of dealing with unwanted forum content by sharing pictures of his genitalia while commenting on the wrinkles and the funny shape of it was cruel and unusual.

[songbird36]

Ubermensch eh? That's a big claim to make Claver.

I gather Zedo and I are Untermenschen then?

And don't knock this feud - it's cheap tawdry entertainment for the bored masses on here, and better than reality TV.

[garak]

We're making a comeback! 53%! Look out!

[songbird36]

I haven't exercised my casting vote yet.

And I can tell you right now, it won't be for the "Lord of the Flies" option..

[Utopmk]

Does no one recognize this member?

[Serotonin]

I witness it all the time from my ISTJ friend, and you are right, it's not pretty. Unfortunately he seems to be forced to let it out around me since that's the realm I'm often thinking in, and it's just miserable for all involved...

Usually they are just terrible puns. Or lewd sexual innuendo. The worst thing about it is that they themselves find it terribly amusing, and are kind of pissed off when we don't.

p.s. for fuck's sake utompk

[Utopmk]

p.s. for fuck's sake utompk

Tell me about it. This is how we used to get rid of trolls. :blink:

p.s. That thing doesn't belong to me. Don't ask why I saved it.

[cjs55]

For my friend, it usually takes the form of a heated argument about intuitive remarks which he is totally fucking clueless about. Its actually fairly serious.

And indeed, for fuck's sake.

[songbird36]

p.s. for fuck's sake utompk

Oh come on Utopmk is the only sane and sensible male on this site (present company excluded).

His post has added a whole new dimension to this debate.

I now want a pic of Zedo's one to see whether it's as big as his ego.

[cjs55]

I think they may be inversely correlated, at least occasionally...

[mgb]

I now want a pic of Zedo's one to see whether it's as big as his ego.

Yeah, that's why you want it.

edit: Just so you know, it's going to print out flat.

[Utopmk]

That was only the thumbnail...

It took alot of work from a fellow conspirator to get it.

Would you like to see the high res version?

[Star]

Does no one recognize this member?

Rate thread:
***** Excellent [x]

[booyalab]

Oh come on Utopmk is the only sane and sensible male on this site (present company excluded).

His post has added a whole new dimension to this debate.

I now want a pic of Zedo's one to see whether it's as big as his ego.

it's appropriately sized

[Division56]

Does no one recognize this member?

W00t, w00t, universal.

[songbird36]

it's appropriately sized

i.e fucking munty.

Thanks for the clarification. He can keep it zipped away..

:lol:

[garak]

Rate thread:
***** Excellent [x]
:rofl: :rofl:

edit: FIFTY FIVE PERCENT!

[garak]

why did it take so long for someone to make a thread about this?

Did you JUST NOW realize you dont like them?
No, I had pretty much just forgotten about them. Something (don't remember what) reminded me of them, and I just got a spontaneous urge to get rid of something I disliked.

[Helios]

I didn't know we had rules, frankly didn't care, I was gonna vote against them, just outta principle, but after reviewing the thread I think I don't care.

[CosmicDust]

INTPs don't need rules. They are silly. Let's get rid of them.
Two problems with this statement:
(a) not everyone here is an INTP
(b) overgeneralization - some INTPs might actually need rules, or at least prefer them. (I voted to keep the rules so people can use them for troll control...there's probably a reason why people make up rules. But I might not need the rules here because they're kind of common-sense stuff that's included in what my superego has already internalized.)

[Avengardh]

No.

[SensEye]

The problem is that without rules, people blame us for CENSORING everything when in reality we'd be doing the same as if we had the rules. Therefore the rules stay.I think the above renders this entire thread moot.

Our young code monkey appears to have grown a backbone and is slowly becoming a tyrant proper. Brings a tear to my eye. *sniff*

[waxwing]

Uhhm. Yeah. Section C-13....the part about...

Honestly, I never read the rules.

I guess, though, that they may be necessary for those with ulterior motives.

Let me go read the rules now so I can start breaking them.

[Division56]

Everything is better on holiday.

[CreativeChaos]

I would vote number two. I remember when and why they were made, and I agree they are needed just in case, that rare event comes along. It was a sad and dark day for this place. We can't see it happening again.

And yes, I will mention his name. Edwin. There. I said it. I liked him. I do not think he should have been banned. You guys didn't understand him. Especially if he was an INFP as some of you have claimed. Now that you know, I suggest letting him back in, if he ever wants to. Maybe he's over at the INFP spot under another name. Maybe he's at the N spot under another name. I hope so. AND I don't think he should be kept from the N spot.

(Gee, that just reminded me of the G spot). :blush:

[Claverhouse]

I would vote number two. I remember when and why they were made, and I agree they are needed just in case, that rare event comes along. It was a sad and dark day for this place. We can't see it happening again.
It wasn't that bad. Feelers...


And yes, I will mention his name. Edwin. There. I said it. I liked him. I do not think he should have been banned. You guys didn't understand him.
He wasn't that hard to work out, not like the supremely intelligent Universal who was a dark horse indeed ( compared with some people ). And yes, he should have been banned. I didn't even faintly dislike him however.


Especially if he was an INFP as some of you have claimed.
Some here, ( not me ) think that's sufficient reason.


Now that you know, I suggest letting him back in, if he ever wants to. Maybe he's over at the INFP spot under another name. Maybe he's at the N spot under another name. I hope so. AND I don't think he should be kept from the N spot.
I hope so too, ( I don't visit there ). And now we know what ?

Anyone got Universal's number ? Since the Egyptians have told the Pope to apologise for the crusades...



Claverhouse :ph34r:

[songbird36]

Anyone got Universal's number ? Since the Egyptians have told the Pope to apologise for the crusades...
Claverhouse :ph34r:

Isn't a photo of his dick enough for you?

[garak]

I would vote number two. I remember when and why they were made, and I agree they are needed just in case, that rare event comes along. It was a sad and dark day for this place. We can't see it happening again.

And yes, I will mention his name. Edwin.
Who needs rules to ban an annoying little jerk? How exactly do the rules make any difference in such a situation? The only thing I can come up with is that the admins were too afraid to stand up for their position.

[songbird36]

Someone being "annoying" isn't enough of a reason to ban them.

I presume he did way more than that.

[garak]

Someone being "annoying" isn't enough of a reason to ban them.

I presume he did way more than that.
Correct, he was also a jerk.

http://www.intpcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2149
"You sound such a prick"
"You're far too dumb."
"Being the male slut you are ..."
"... I don't pay much attention to chauvinistic pigs, like yourself."

IIRC there was much worse stuff, but searching is exhausting.

[ppc]

Who needs rules to ban an annoying little jerk? How exactly do the rules make any difference in such a situation? The only thing I can come up with is that the admins were too afraid to stand up for their position.

You don't need a reason to kick someone out of your house - so why do you need one for your website?

[mgb]

I would vote number two. I remember when and why they were made, and I agree they are needed just in case, that rare event comes along. It was a sad and dark day for this place. We can't see it happening again.

And yes, I will mention his name. Edwin. There. I said it. I liked him. I do not think he should have been banned. You guys didn't understand him. Especially if he was an INFP as some of you have claimed. Now that you know, I suggest letting him back in, if he ever wants to. Maybe he's over at the INFP spot under another name. Maybe he's at the N spot under another name. I hope so. AND I don't think he should be kept from the N spot.

(Gee, that just reminded me of the G spot). :blush:

He claimed to be an INFP.

[mgb]

Someone being "annoying" isn't enough of a reason to ban them.

I presume he did way more than that.

Should be...

*waits for obvious comeback*

[Geoff]

You don't need a reason to kick someone out of your house - so why do you need one for your website?

The website is different to a house. it has an open door, you dont require an invite to enter. The website is more like, say, a museum or library (or some such public building). Anyone can come in, but rules allow a modicum of control in a public environment.

-Geoff

[songbird36]

Agreed.

[ppc]

The website is different to a house. it has an open door, you dont require an invite to enter. The website is more like, say, a museum or library (or some such public building). Anyone can come in, but rules allow a modicum of control in a public environment.

-Geoff

Except that websites such as these do not operate in the public domain they exist in the private domain in the public. Kind of like a private art museum.

[Geoff]

Agreed in as much as this means that they do not *require* rules. However rules are advisable in a private art museum if you want to keep a modicum of sensibility with the users.

-Geoff

[ppc]

Agreed in as much as this means that they do not *require* rules. However rules are advisable in a private art museum if you want to keep a modicum of sensibility with the users.

-Geoff

Tell me do you need to have that warning lable on your knives that say "Caution may be sharp"?

If someone does need that kind of a label/rule do you even want them around to begin with?

[Geoff]

Tell me do you need to have that warning lable on your knives that say "Caution may be sharp"?

If someone does need that kind of a label/rule do you even want them around to begin with?

Well, that is an extreme end of the scale to take the point on. It is never easy in any social dynamic between setting the balance between wishing to allow everyone to just rub along (and use common sense) as you are suggesting, and how to deal with those occasions when people do not.

Rules give a framework in a social setting to allow the users to understand what is expected. They should, where desirable, be as flexible and open as possible. I would not envisage any need for more than a general set of guidelines. The rules then at least allow people to expect punishment if they act in an unacceptable way.

Can I ask you a question on the other end of the scale? Would you allow child pornography to be freely available and swapped with the guests in your house? Even if you do not have knives with safety warnings.

The point is, where do you draw the line.

-Geoff

[ppc]

Well child pornography is not something I am ok with and it is illegal and I am on probation so haha no! I draw the line where I want to is what it comes down to because it is my house/website and what I say goes. I do agree a general set of guidelines are nice to have if you just want to give an idea of what people should expect seeing how you will be dealing with "the public"

[Clara]

Who "belongs" ???

Because, if this is going to be yet another : "let the bullies have it then, if they want it, and *we'll* just go elsewhere..."

WHAT ?!? Just each of us, quietly quit in disgust, one by one ?

What about : There are forums -- grouping, loosely, what might be of interest to INTPs-and-those-interested-in-talking-with-or-about-INTPs ... I'm currently very angry with the attitude, "Well, if you don't like it, leave" AND EVEN MORE SO, the attitude, "Well, the only reasonable reaction is ..."

*no, posting a series of expletives wouldn't make me "feel better" -- wake up, I'm not addressing EMOTIONS here -- oh, but yes, I'm one of those strange INTPs who claims her emotions*

[Geoff]

Who "belongs" ???

Because, if this is going to be yet another : "let the bullies have it then, if they want it, and *we'll* just go elsewhere..."

WHAT ?!? Just each of us, quietly quit in disgust, one by one ?

What about : There are forums -- grouping, loosely, what might be of interest to INTPs-and-those-interested-in-talking-with-or-about-INTPs ... I'm currently very angry with the attitude, "Well, if you don't like it, leave" AND EVEN MORE SO, the attitude, "Well, the only reasonable reaction is ..."

*no, posting a series of expletives wouldn't make me "feel better" -- wake up, I'm not addressing EMOTIONS here -- oh, but yes, I'm one of those strange INTPs who claims her emotions*

Right on, sister.

-Geoff

[Edmond Zedo]

Who "belongs" ???

Because, if this is going to be yet another : "let the bullies have it then, if they want it, and *we'll* just go elsewhere..."

WHAT ?!? Just each of us, quietly quit in disgust, one by one ?

What about : There are forums -- grouping, loosely, what might be of interest to INTPs-and-those-interested-in-talking-with-or-about-INTPs ... I'm currently very angry with the attitude, "Well, if you don't like it, leave" AND EVEN MORE SO, the attitude, "Well, the only reasonable reaction is ..."

*no, posting a series of expletives wouldn't make me "feel better" -- wake up, I'm not addressing EMOTIONS here -- oh, but yes, I'm one of those strange INTPs who claims her emotions*
Normally I would say something snide in response. But you happen to catch me when I'm in a good mood.

[Clara]

So, we follow "mood," in determining what's right ?

I am not saying that it's *wrong* that our emotions play a part in how we act. Or that we can even "decide" that, anyway... Yup, I agree, it's easier to act according to what we know is *better* when we're not feeling strongly antagonistic.

Here's something to think about : we all step over lines... often enough. What, you think I don't. *pausing, briefly, to chuckle...* It's like Santa, my littles : I don't know, all too often, if it's better to let you believe until you put it together on your own, or to tell you now, so you won't keep arguing with your friends, making memories you may later regret.... NTs are a bitterly proud bunch ... and, if anyone has insight, feel free to PM me.

:cheers:
edit, because this isn't worth a whole post : those who don't want to understand will probably persist in misunderstanding. The need to have rules written down, so that when someone steps beyond the limits of acceptable behavior, it can be pointed out : what, and where -- seems obvious to me.
There's a quote, somewhere, about exploring the limits of what is possible, by going just beyond that. INTPish, no ?
*Emotionally speaking : ya'll can believe whatever you want about my type preference... Ya'll can be aghast, if you want to, that someone can have written the above post, sober... So what ? That's another reason for rules : it's not a popularity contest.*

[Edmond Zedo]

So, we follow "mood," in determining what's right ?

I am not saying that it's *wrong* that our emotions play a part in how we act. Or that we can even "decide" that, anyway... Yup, I agree, it's easier to act according to what we know is *better* when we're not feeling strongly antagonistic.

Here's something to think about : we all step over lines... often enough. What, you think I don't. *pausing, briefly, to chuckle...* It's like Santa, my littles : I don't know, all too often, if it's better to let you believe until you put it together on your own, or to tell you now, so you won't keep arguing with your friends, making memories you may later regret.... NTs are a bitterly proud bunch ... and, if anyone has insight, feel free to PM me.

:cheers:
Songbird is not gone yet, so I'm not in a good mood anymore. I think your keyboard may be broken, because nothing substantial can be extracted from that post (among others). It just doesn't say anything. I'm sure you meant to, but "Damn."

[Lee]

Songbird is not gone yet, so I'm not in a good mood anymore. I think your keyboard may be broken, because nothing substantial can be extracted from that post (among others). It just doesn't say anything. I'm sure you meant to, but "Damn."
The emoticon says all that needs to be said.