Organizing block vote: Rajah.

[puzzled-observer]

Rajah's been online and has not participated in much, if any, discussion at all. There's no reason someone could do this (as a towny) and expect to win.
Rajah must, therefore, be mafia. I'm fairly confident in this.
What say you?

Edit: I have to go to bed. Vote to kill Rajah!!!!

[Madrigal]

While she is on the suspect list I posted, does this mean you're not voting for Works?!

I think we may have a candidate for each voter this time. :blink:

Thing is I wanted to go after a noise machine this time, which I made a whole essay to justify. Yes it's suspicious the Mafia has not killed her yet and that her participation has been low (if existent at all?), she hasn't even voted - but can we afford to go after someone who is only guilty by omission right now? I would try to take down a noisy Mafia and then think about the ones lurking in the shadows. The noisy ones have been engaging us, I've said this many times, I think they're more dangerous - and more obvious - than someone like Rajah for the moment. Are you suggesting we kill Rajah on this round?

edit: Shit.

[Works]

We're pretty fractured right now. It's just like building consensus in a real mob!

I'm going to wait to see what LR's opinion is on this and hopefully she still doesn't want to kill me.

If not, I shall rise again!

[ApeTheDog]

Stop calling for a block vote without reasons. Ultimately we should NEVER have just one person we're voting for. The mafia is going to try to call for a block vote for an innocent person - especially now that they've observed that tactic in the last game. It wouldn't look suspicious at all anymore and they have all the information.

I find *highly* suspicious the people who just want to get everybody to vote for someone based on absolutely no solid reason, immediately as the turn starts. Rajah hasn't done anything suspicious - she just was mafia in the last game. I suspect the ones calling for her death - happynoodleboy being the one I'm singling out first to test my theory. I'll change my vote if another train starts and somebody else is being voted for in a block. But the most stupid thing we can do is all vote for rajah.

The mafia has 6 people who are all manipulating us to pick who they've decided. We CANNOT unite behind just one person.

[puzzled-observer]

Stop calling for a block vote without reasons. Ultimately we should NEVER have just one person we're voting for. The mafia is going to try to call for a block vote for an innocent person - especially now that they've observed that tactic in the last game. It wouldn't look suspicious at all anymore and they have all the information.

I find *highly* suspicious the people who just want to get everybody to vote for someone based on absolutely no solid reason, immediately as the turn starts. Rajah hasn't done anything suspicious - she just was mafia in the last game. I suspect the ones calling for her death - happynoodleboy being the one I'm singling out first to test my theory. I'll change my vote if another train starts and somebody else is being voted for in a block. But the most stupid thing we can do is all vote for rajah.

The mafia has 6 people who are all manipulating us to pick who they've decided. We CANNOT unite behind just one person.
It wasn't immediate and it wasn't without good reason.

If the townies don't collaborate, the 6 mafia have a huge voting advantage.

[ApeTheDog]

If the townies collaborate AROUND the 6 mafia the townies have a huge voting disadvantage.

What good reasons? Can you, obviously being quite certain of her guilt, summarize then a little here?

[Etherealsage]

I've given good counterarguments for each point, you can't have absolute certainty here.

[puzzled-observer]

1. Not participating in discussion can in no way benefit the townies. Therefore, those who are able and choose not to participate in discussion are very likely mafia.
2. Rajah was online yesterday and did not participate at all.
3. MGB a known mafia member defended her
4. The other prime suspects that i was considering are not very convincing. (that is: 2ds, Works, madrigal, LR)

Therefore, rajah is the best choice.

[Rajah]

1. Not participating in discussion can in no way benefit the townies. Therefore, those who are able and choose not to participate in discussion are very likely mafia.
2. Rajah was online yesterday and did not participate at all.
3. MGB a known mafia member defended her
4. The other prime suspects that i was considering are not very convincing. (that is: 2ds, Works, madrigal, LR)

Therefore, rajah is the best choice.
Aren't I participating, A LOT, right now?

[ApeTheDog]

Can you show me where mgb defended rajah?

That would be incriminating, yes.

[Rajah]

Can you show me where mgb defended rajah?

That would be incriminating, yes.
He didn't! He came into the discussion thread and posted something, apparently before realizing he was killed. That has nothing to do with me.

[ApeTheDog]

Rajah: That's why I'm asking to see the post. It's one thing to spin information up, it's another to show facts.

[puzzled-observer]

Can you show me where mgb defended rajah?

That would be incriminating, yes.
http://forums.intpcentral.com/showthread.php?t=33952
It's in that thread towards the bottom where rajah suddenly burst into self defense (actually started talking) because she realized being quiet wasn't working anymore.

Just do a search for mgb, he only said 1 or two things in there anyway.

[HappyNoodleBoy]

http://forums.intpcentral.com/showpost.php?p=1050409&postcount=82

He is supporting Rajah's claims. Which is enough to solidify suspicions on her since we know he is mafia. Why would he come out to defend a townie on a basically irrelevant claim of "I had real life shit to do" unless thats important to the mafia's agenda. Both Eye in TiPi and Rajah are both using the same excuse.

[Rajah]

He actually didn't say anything at all. I went back and reread it. He just "heh"d at my post, and then commented about himself.

Why are you guys trumping this up? In concert?

[puzzled-observer]

He actually didn't say anything at all. I went back and reread it. He just "heh"d at my post, and then commented about himself.

Why are you guys trumping this up? In concert?

He was deflecting pressure away from you.

[Rajah]

He was deflecting pressure away from you.For about three seconds I didn't think you were mafia.

[ApeTheDog]

He made those posts AN HOUR AFTER HE WAS DEAD.

He claims not to have known yet, but I'm not sure about that. Wouldn't he have gotten a PM from Oso?

It would be incriminating if he was still pretending to be a townie. Defending somebody after he has been unmasked is very suspect. His allegiance doesn't lie with the townies.

As it looks to me now, this fits entirely into the tactic I believe the mafia would use:
1. Try to influence blockvotes against innocents. (Jughead)
2. Kill off the moderators first. (Ivy)

Not a valid reason, to me, at all. Smells highly like a tactic they came up with.

[Works]

Been rereading the posts, Rajah may be a mistake... Who is everyone's second choice?

2d is mine.

djm and eye would also be ok.

Happynoodleboy and puzzled have just recently started posting which makes it hard to figure them out, but so has Rajah.

Come on LR, make the damn deadline!

[puzzled-observer]

He made those posts AN HOUR AFTER HE WAS DEAD.

He claims not to have known yet, but I'm not sure about that. Wouldn't he have gotten a PM from Oso?

It would be incriminating if he was still pretending to be a townie. Defending somebody after he has been unmasked is very suspect. His allegiance doesn't lie with the townies.

As it looks to me now, this fits entirely into the tactic I believe the mafia would use:
1. Try to influence blockvotes against innocents. (Jughead)
2. Kill off the moderators first. (Ivy)

Not a valid reason, to me, at all. Smells highly like a tactic they came up with.

No, see, because they didn't kill rajah in their 2nd turn. That's why rajah as a mod stands out. Why haven't they killed her? The answer is because she IS them.

[Etherealsage]

Wouldn't it be easy to incriminate her by not killing her? This is also speculation that Ivy was killed for being a mod.

[puzzled-observer]

Been rereading the posts, Rajah may be a mistake... Who is everyone's second choice?

2d is mine.

djm and eye would also be ok.

Happynoodleboy and puzzled have just recently started posting which makes it hard to figure them out, but so has Rajah.

Come on LR, make the damn deadline!
The difference is, Rajah only posted the minute after we got majority to have her lynched. Maybe it was a coincidence. I happen to think not.

[Rajah]

No, see, because they didn't kill rajah in their 2nd turn. That's why rajah as a mod stands out. Why haven't they killed him? The answer is because he IS them.You're mafia!

[puzzled-observer]

Wouldn't it be easy to incriminate her by not killing her? This is also speculation that Ivy was killed for being a mod.
She incriminates herself by not having participated until she was nominated for the chopping block.

[Oso Mocoso]

He claims not to have known yet, but I'm not sure about that. Wouldn't he have gotten a PM from Oso?

No. I do tend to PM players who have been eliminated but I post to the Mafia subforum before doing so. He didn't find out he was dead until he clicked on Oh Canada although from the thread title he probably should have guessed what was up when he saw it.

[Works]

Ugh, for all I can tell now, you're all suspect. Who is everyone's second choice for the lynching. We have one hour.

[Rajah]

No. I do tend to PM players who have been eliminated but I post to the Mafia subforum before doing so. He didn't find out he was dead until he clicked on Oh Canada although from the thread title he probably should have guessed what was up when he saw it.FWIW, I didn't even notice this thread until I posted about 50 times in the discussion thread and vote thread.

[puzzled-observer]

Ugh, for all I can tell now, you're all suspect. Who is everyone's second choice for the lynching. We have one hour.

Keep in mind, works, if rajah is mafia, most of the people defending her are also mafia. Not all, but probably most.

[ApeTheDog]

Ugh, for all I can tell now, you're all suspect. Who is everyone's second choice for the lynching. We have one hour.

Happynoodleboy

[Etherealsage]

Ugh, for all I can tell now, you're all suspect. Who is everyone's second choice for the lynching. We have one hour.
2ds and LR are tied for second.

[Works]

Keep in mind, works, if rajah is mafia, most of the people defending her are also mafia. Not all, but probably most.

Frankly, I just want to hear people's first and second choice, cross reference them against each other. That might reveal something.

Rajah and 2ds are my top two for this round.

Djm and eye would also do.

[puzzled-observer]

Well, as you may know, I was between voting for works an rajah last night. I suspect if You're(works) mafia, then LR will be too. But if rajah is, then neither you or lr is mafia-- At least, within a reasonable probability.

Being that I'm much more suspicious of rajah than I am of you or LR at the moment, and the fact that there's only 1 of rajah and 2 of you, it's much more helpful to me for rajah to be killed.

[Etherealsage]

I'm sticking with 2ds until near the end. I'd rather lynch him, but I'll join Rajah's opposition because 2ds is the only one I think is mafia, and Rajah's opposition (HNB is the candidate at this point?) is suspect, more suspect than her anyway, given the facts.

[ApeTheDog]

puzzled-observer is the anti-rajah candidate at the moment. Anyone who believes rajah is innocent should vote for him. Anyone who believes Rajah is guilty should vote for her, obviously. Anything else will be a wasted vote and it's too late to change tactics.

[puzzled-observer]

puzzled-observer is the anti-rajah candidate at the moment. Anyone who believes rajah is innocent should vote for him. Anyone who believes Rajah is guilty should vote for her, obviously. Anything else will be a wasted vote and it's too late to change tactics.

Suspicion of guilt is not the only factor here... I don't know how many times I need to say this. Evaluation of which candidate will produce the most data is, in many respects, more important than guilt this early in the game.

[ApeTheDog]

We have already killed one innocent person. We can't vote for another innocent.

For arguments sake, because it's too late to change tactics or votes... who would produce most data then according to you? What are you even talking about?

[puzzled-observer]

We have already killed one innocent person. We can't vote for another innocent.

For arguments sake, because it's too late to change tactics or votes... who would produce most data then according to you? What are you even talking about?

If the mafia are organizing against rajah, as you say. It narrows down more subjects for us to choose from than does killing me. In the long run, it makes it easier for the townies. And that's assuming he's innocent. If he's guilty, then some (most?) of the people who rose up to protect him are guilty as well.