Are you serving in the US Armed Forces?

[mancroft]

Are you serving in the Armed Forces? - A special message from RestoreTheRepublic.com

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wphcVB_gCD0

WATCH

[Deckard]

Nice MIDI.

[mgb]

I wonder how many times Gary's mom interrupted filming to make sure no one was hungry?

[avolkiteshvara]

No, but I watched GI Jane.

[Nighthawk]

I think Gary should put on a uniform and practice what he preaches.

[Neville]

Neither of their suits fit.

[Dawn Run]

That video was stupid.


Anyway Im still joining the marines when im 18.

[CEOofRawness]

Hmm... disobey a lawful order, get prosecuted under the Uniform Code of Military Justice (UCMJ), and possibly get discharged with an other than honorable characterization of service, which makes it VERY difficult to find a job (not a good thing with the way the economy is going).

While I agree with the video to some extent, I think I'll pass on this one.

edit: By the way, the maximum punishment for disobeying an order during war-time is the death penalty. While very unlikely, I doubt anyone is willing to die over some douchebags on a youtube video.

[MoneyJungle]

I already did my brig time for disobeying a direct order (not inspired by a man in a youtube video). It was the worst mistake I could have possibly made and makes my life difficult to this day.

[Dawn Run]

I already did my brig time for disobeying a direct order (not inspired by a man in a youtube video). It was the worst mistake I could have possibly made and makes my life difficult to this day.

What did you do? Why did you disobey the order?

[CEOofRawness]

I already did my brig time for disobeying a direct order (not inspired by a man in a youtube video). It was the worst mistake I could have possibly made and makes my life difficult to this day.

That's harsh.

What kind of discharge did you get?

[MoneyJungle]

OTH. Sucks to no end. Absolutely my fault, but definitely a blemish that I will carry with me officially for the rest of my life. I was three years into a four year contract and it would've been better for my record had I never served and I just stayed at home smoking weed.

I don't want to get into specifics of what I did because it is embarrassing and stupid, but I learned a lot about picking my battles.

[Dawn Run]

OTH. Sucks to no end. Absolutely my fault, but definitely a blemish that I will carry with me officially for the rest of my life. I was three years into a four year contract and it would've been better for my record had I never served and I just stayed at home smoking weed.

I don't want to get into specifics of what I did because it is embarrassing and stupid, but I learned a lot about picking my battles.

What branch did you serve in? What did you do there?

[mgb]

That video was stupid.


Anyway Im still joining the marines when im 18.

God, that explains so much.

[Nighthawk]

OTH. Sucks to no end. Absolutely my fault, but definitely a blemish that I will carry with me officially for the rest of my life. I was three years into a four year contract and it would've been better for my record had I never served and I just stayed at home smoking weed.

I don't want to get into specifics of what I did because it is embarrassing and stupid, but I learned a lot about picking my battles.

I can definitely relate. I would have done stockade time if it had not been for more sympathetic superiors at certain points in my career. I got in to a full out screaming match with one superior officer, refusing to do what he told me ... not because it was unlawful, but because it made no sense to me. I told another colonel to his face that when he could speak to me like a human being, then I would work for him. Once again, I got off lucky there. Not even a reprimand. Could have easily gone the other way though.

I'm sorry that this blemish has followed you around. OTH is a bitch, from what I understand. I could easily have been there as well. I guess I just got lucky. Hang in there.

[CEOofRawness]

I can definitely relate. I would have done stockade time if it had not been for more sympathetic superiors at certain points in my career. I got in to a full out screaming match with one superior officer, refusing to do what he told me ... not because it was unlawful, but because it made no sense to me. I told another colonel to his face that when he could speak to me like a human being, then I would work for him. Once again, I got off lucky there. Not even a reprimand. Could have easily gone the other way though.

I'm sorry that this blemish has followed you around. OTH is a bitch, from what I understand. I could easily have been there as well. I guess I just got lucky. Hang in there.

I always say that if it made any sense, we wouldn't be in the Army.

I guess that's the biggest problem an INTP has in the military: having to follow orders that don't make sense to them. If an INTP isn't convinced to do something, their motivation hits rock bottom. I honestly don't know how you did it for so long. I think I would've shot myself in the head (or someone else) at some point.

At first I thought about doing 20 years in, retiring at 42, 43, and being good for the rest of my life. But it's really not worth 20 years of misery. If I'm complaining this much and I'm in the National Guard, I can't even begin to fathom what active duty would be like.

Like I said before: not following orders is just too much trouble for what it's worth. It's easy to make a video trying to convince soldiers to do so, but the ones that follow through are gonna end up fucked over and isolated. I'm sure those jackasses in the youtube video aren't gonna help them out, either.

[Nighthawk]

I always say that if it made any sense, we wouldn't be in the Army.


Very accurate. I've never seen more nonsense in one place. I remember one time during a training exercise, it took us so long (over 10 hours) to give our operations order briefing that the opposing force overran our entire unit and wiped us all out. Afterwards, during the debriefing, we were told that our operations order briefing was picture perfect ... among the best they had ever seen. Uh ... hello ... we took so long that we all got killed. That was one of the first major cracks in my military idealism.



I guess that's the biggest problem an INTP has in the military: having to follow orders that don't make sense to them. If an INTP isn't convinced to do something, their motivation hits rock bottom. I honestly don't know how you did it for so long. I think I would've shot myself in the head (or someone else) at some point.


My motivation frequently was at rock bottom. I drank a lot, womanized a lot, and snuck off a lot to do my own thing ... usually drink and womanize. I mistakenly thought that it would get better if I just stuck it out. I considered a branch transfer to military intelligence or to try becomming a professor at one of the academies. None of that came to fruition. Command was a decent job, but there was still a ton of politics and back stabbing involved with it. The rest of the jobs all sucked ass. I often wish I'd come to my senses earlier in life.



At first I thought about doing 20 years in, retiring at 42, 43, and being good for the rest of my life. But it's really not worth 20 years of misery. If I'm complaining this much and I'm in the National Guard, I can't even begin to fathom what active duty would be like.


Twenty years and out at 41 was my goal as well. Obviously, I didn't make it. Twenty years is an eternity to be stuck in such a system. I think it would have warped me permanently, if it didn't do that already. I used to keep a calendar where I would mark a green X if the day went well, and a red X if is did not go well. The calendar was almost exclusively red.



Like I said before: not following orders is just too much trouble for what it's worth. It's easy to make a video trying to convince soldiers to do so, but the ones that follow through are gonna end up fucked over and isolated. I'm sure those jackasses in the youtube video aren't gonna help them out, either.

I agree. Disobeying orders can bring a world of hurt upon you in a system where they basically own you like a slave. There is no other option except what they want you to do. I'm just glad I was never placed in a position where my superior wanted me to do something illegal ... except for that one asshole who wanted me to falsify documents, which I refused. He made my life hell for about a year after that. When I got out of the military, it was like a huge load had been lifted from my shoulders ... even though I had no clue what I was going to do.

[CEOofRawness]

So Nighthawk, how long were you in for?

I joined 7 NOV 2005 and currently get out in 2013 from the guard, unless I continue in the ROTC, in which I would then get out in 2016. I'm beginning to think it isn't worth the extra 3 years, but my unit is getting deployed in 2010. Don't know the details of the deployment, so I'm gonna wait it out for another month or two before I decide whether to drop ROTC.

From what I've heard, my unit is getting deployed to Kuwait; it's a logistics (HQ's) unit, and last time they were there all they did was resupply incoming troops.

Has being an officer really benefited you in your civilian life/career?

edit: Is it worth the extra 3 years?

[Nighthawk]

So Nighthawk, how long were you in for?


I was in for 13 years and some months ... 1979-1992 Four years of that was officer school though.



I joined 7 NOV 2005 and currently get out in 2013 from the guard, unless I continue in the ROTC, in which I would then get out in 2016. I'm beginning to think it isn't worth the extra 3 years, but my unit is getting deployed in 2010. Don't know the details of the deployment, so I'm gonna wait it out for another month or two before I decide whether to drop ROTC.

From what I've heard, my unit is getting deployed to Kuwait; it's a logistics (HQ's) unit, and last time they were there all they did was resupply incoming troops.


Wow, I didn't know they scheduled deployments out that far. A shitty deployment can be a real morale buster ... but Kuwait doesn't sound too bad. As you stated, they have mostly resupply and support bases there. The main opponent to overcome there is boredom. In what type of guard unit are you serving? The paradigm used to be that guard were mostly combat units, while reserves were mostly support units. Does that still hold true?



Has being an officer really benefited you in your civilian life/career?

edit: Is it worth the extra 3 years?

I have to say yes, it has been of benefit to me. The leadership, people skills, and follow-through training alone is worth it, in my opinion. Then you get to practice it all at a young age with a captive audience. I was in charge of 16 people at age 22, and it only got bigger over time. There are very few places where you can get that kind of experience. It's great on a resume if you want to go into management ... and even if you don't, it still pays dividends by proving that you can suck it up and still function well. It has always served me well.

I believe it is worth the extra 3 years, particularly if you will be able to deploy in 2010 as an officer. The quality of life is a bit better, plus you are a bit more in control of things. If you ever get a chance to get a command, then you are the lord of your domain ... a virtual ruler in your little slice of the world.

If you decide you want to go for 20 and possible retirement, you can still do that by serving as a recruiting officer for West Point. It is volunteer only (no pay, at first), but incredibly easy and they won't deploy you anywhere. It takes up very little of your time. Every year you serve counts as one year towards retirement. Get your 20 full (counting the years you already served in the guard), and you get a retirement check at age 65. Not a big one, but it might help. You also get free medical, unless they take away that benefit by then.

Best of luck with your decision. It's definitely a double-edged sword. Benefits and detractors.

[CEOofRawness]

They schedule deployments pretty far out in the reserve component since people also have civilian jobs and go to school, so it gives them time to get their shit together before they deploy.

I believe you're right about there being mostly combat units in the guard, but my unit is the HQ unit for the rest of the guard units in my area. When a guard unit in this region needs supplies they go through us. It's an Area Support Group unit; a HQ logistics unit like I mentioned earlier.

As it stands now I'll be getting out of the guard at the age of 26, and 29 if I become an officer (I graduate next spring). I just really don't like the Army at all. I despise having to go to drill or any sort of training whatsoever.

You spent 4 years in officer school? Do you mean the military college you went to, or the schools like BOLC I,II,III, plus shit like the captain career course, etc? What was your branch and how long was the training for that branch?

[Nighthawk]

They schedule deployments pretty far out in the reserve component since people also have civilian jobs and go to school, so it gives them time to get their shit together before they deploy.


That makes sense. Glad to see they are doing something right ;)



I believe you're right about there being mostly combat units in the guard, but my unit is the HQ unit for the rest of the guard units in my area. When a guard unit in this region needs supplies they go through us. It's an Area Support Group unit; a HQ logistics unit like I mentioned earlier.


I served as a logistics officer in an infantry brigade HQ in Germany for about a year. We coordinated supplies and transporation for the three combat battalions in the brigade. It was one of the best times I had in the military, primarily because the unit was 40% female, and many of them liked to party as much as I did at that point in my life. When we went on field exercises, it was like a frat party ... whenever we could get away from our superiors.



As it stands now I'll be getting out of the guard at the age of 26, and 29 if I become an officer (I graduate next spring). I just really don't like the Army at all. I despise having to go to drill or any sort of training whatsoever.


I believe I was 30 when I got out ... or rather, was forced out. I don't know how long I might have stayed otherwise. I definitely had a love-hate relationship with the Army. I despised getting up for work most mornings, but loved some of the camaraderie in the units. That camaraderie does not exist in the civilian world ... at least nowhere that I have found.



You spent 4 years in officer school? Do you mean the military college you went to, or the schools like BOLC I,II,III, plus shit like the captain career course, etc? What was your branch and how long was the training for that branch?

The 4 years were at a military academy. My branch was armor/armored cavalry. We had some familiarization training in all the branches at the academy, a lot of tactical training, and some branch specific training our senior years after we chose our branches. Then I attended the Armor Officer Basic Course for a few months before reporting to my first unit as new lieutenant. After my first tour of duty, I attended the Armor Officer Advanced Course (now the Captain's Career Course, I believe) for a few months ... followed by the Cavalry Leader's Course. All the rest of my training was in the units, and consisted of a lot of gunnery and small unit tactical exercises.

I also attended a personnel officer course and maintenance officer course, to cover some of the ancillary duties I had in between serving with the line units. Overall, I'd say I spent about 10%-15% of my time in schools/courses.

[MoneyJungle]

I guess I just got lucky. Hang in there.

I got to the point where I viewed senior enlisted and officers as those lucky enough not to have been busted, because it seemed like noboby was following the letter of the law. I only trusted E4 and below and E5/E6 with over fifteen years in by the end. I didn't realize this was a form of bigotry until after I got out. I just didn't trust anyone who gave a shit.

[30footsmurf]

I served in the marines 5 years, went to Iraq and all. This guy is crazy if he thinks this is going to work. Having a few military folks refuse orders is one thing, but his goals will only be realized when Americans decide to claim their rights for themselves. Our citizens are mostly stupid pussies, and thats why these a holes are able to do what they want. I barely care at this point. I'm fairly certain things will continue to get worse until people loose their cable tv and McDonalds closes. We're simply too comfy to care as a whole.

[Nighthawk]

I got to the point where I viewed senior enlisted and officers as those lucky enough not to have been busted, because it seemed like noboby was following the letter of the law. I only trusted E4 and below and E5/E6 with over fifteen years in by the end. I didn't realize this was a form of bigotry until after I got out. I just didn't trust anyone who gave a shit.

Luck and astute politics do have a lot to do with it. I sucked at the latter and eventually ran out of the former ... so I was cashiered as a captain. As for not trusting anybody who gave a shit, we had a saying in one of my units ... "An ambitious officer is like a brazen prostitute. They make everybody in the room uncomfortable."

[Nighthawk]

I served in the marines 5 years, went to Iraq and all. This guy is crazy if he thinks this is going to work. Having a few military folks refuse orders is one thing, but his goals will only be realized when Americans decide to claim their rights for themselves. Our citizens are mostly stupid pussies, and thats why these a holes are able to do what they want. I barely care at this point. I'm fairly certain things will continue to get worse until people loose their cable tv and McDonalds closes. We're simply too comfy to care as a whole.

Amen, brother.

[CEOofRawness]

I have no luck and suck at astute politics as well.

The main reason I'm considering becoming an officer is that I'll have a decent-paying, guaranteed job in case the economy completely goes under. No matter how much it sucks, it still beats the bread line.

[Nighthawk]

The main reason I'm considering becoming an officer is that I'll have a decent-paying, guaranteed job in case the economy completely goes under. No matter how much it sucks, it still beats the bread line.

That's true. I remember being virtually bullet proof in down economies.

[CEOofRawness]

That's true. I remember being virtually bullet proof in down economies.

I have a friend that would rather starve in a gutter than join the military. While I can understand where he's coming from, I'm not sure if that's the way to go about it either.

If the shit really hit the fan, I think I'd do the minimum time on active possible in order to recuperate. I don't think I'd fair too well on active. <_<

[Nighthawk]

I have a friend that would rather starve in a gutter than join the military. While I can understand where he's coming from, I'm not sure if that's the way to go about it either.

If the shit really hit the fan, I think I'd do the minimum time on active possible in order to recuperate. I don't think I'd fair too well on active. <_<

Unfortunately ... or perhaps fortunately ... I'm to old for active duty. I guess I'll have to weather the storm in Corporate Amerika.

[CEOofRawness]

Unfortunately ... or perhaps fortunately ... I'm to old for active duty. I guess I'll have to weather the storm in Corporate Amerika.

At least you don't have a choice. Right now my choices are either A) finish ROTC and ETS in 2016 or B) leave ROTC and possibly get deployed for god knows how long (year perhaps?) in early 2010 (supposedly in January), but ETS in 2013.

I think I'd rather be in your shoes :mellow:

[Nighthawk]

At least you don't have a choice. Right now my choices are either A) finish ROTC and ETS in 2016 or B) leave ROTC and possibly get deployed for god knows how long (year perhaps?) in early 2010 (supposedly in January), but ETS in 2013.

I think I'd rather be in your shoes :mellow:

I hear you. I did breath a substantial sigh of relief when they finally took my name off the reserve roster. My wife was on pins and needles the whole time, afraid that I'd get deployed again. Any thoughts yet on which option you'll take?