INTP's and Mental Health

[Johnny]

Threads discussing familial discord, depression, mental disorders, and such exist here in a number that, frankly, astounds me. It wasn't until I read about Asperger's Syndrome that it became clear to me - there seems to be some confusion about the description of the INTP personality type offered by Myers-Briggs and certain social or psychological disorders. This is very unusual to me, both because Myers-Briggs makes an effort to assert that they are revealing the strengths and weaknesses for their personality types, both to empower a person and show where one can improve where such improvement may not be self-evident, and because I'm not very familiar with the worlds of psychology and psychiatry.

What's the deal? I know I am not common, and people have offered to me that they consider me to be atypical, but I don't consider myself in need of help, nor has it been suggested to me that I seek professional help or medical treatment for any psychological disorder. And I am certainly not callous to the feelings or needs of myself or others, though I may be reluctant to deal with them or able to see them at all times.

So what's our spread on perceived mental health, fellow INTP'ers?

[Vagabond]

Mentally healthy, psychologically hmm... getting there.

[HairlessBluetick]

Undecided.

[Melody]

I am healthy, I ... well...

It is as if I am waiting for something and its non-arriving is making me feel sick. That's really weird. O_O I wonder what it is I am waiting for. *goes off to write a Socratic dialogue*

[HairlessBluetick]

I am healthy, I ... well...

It is as if I am waiting for something and its non-arriving is making me feel sick. That's really weird. O_O I wonder what it is I am waiting for. *goes off to write a Socratic dialogue*

I feel like that sometimes.

[Jkrs]

Somewhere in the middle. So far it's nothing I can't deal with on my own, though.

[shaytana]

I am healthy, I ... well...

It is as if I am waiting for something and its non-arriving is making me feel sick. That's really weird. O_O I wonder what it is I am waiting for. *goes off to write a Socratic dialogue*

Yes.

[flan2dave]

I am healthy, I ... well...

It is as if I am waiting for something and its non-arriving is making me feel sick. That's really weird. O_O I wonder what it is I am waiting for. *goes off to write a Socratic dialogue*

Yeah, and it's like that something is over a very steep and slippery hill. I can sprint up it, get a momentary gaze at that elusive something, but inevitabely I'll come stumbling back down. If I try to get up slowly, it will feel like I'm getting nowhere and I'm just putting myself through drudgery. It's not depression or anything, but still...

[int]

I am what I am. I haven't broken any major laws yet so I guess it's healthy.

[Odyssey]

I am healthy, I ... well...

It is as if I am waiting for something and its non-arriving is making me feel sick. That's really weird. O_O I wonder what it is I am waiting for. *goes off to write a Socratic dialogue*

If you're school-age, you're waiting for school to start.

OR you're waiting for yourself to show up, waiting for "more" out of life. I recognize that feeling from those strange off-times when I'm not doing anything much proactive in my life. Once I get back 'on the ball' and begin directing my life again, I don't feel like I'm waiting for anything.

~Odyssey

PS: Oh yeah, and I think I'm healthy mentally and psychology. I have a good family and haven't experienced any big traumas, so I see no reason to be depressed or anything.

[nobarcode]

Compared to what, exactly? B)

[int]

I like that reply. B)

[Melody]

I was thinking strongfully, and I believe I am waiting for school to end. Me feels something has to be reasoned with and adjusted, because requiring things to constantly change will leave me depressed forever. Unless I can go from being a software architect to a ... hmmm... not bad... One of my professors at my school is probably INTP, and this guy has been everyfreakingwhere. He's worked for NASA, for example. >_> He's been a lot of things in many other places. That doesn't sound like such a bad life. lol He is critical of the school's curriculum and said that he was trying to get the school to fix it. He said it was important because if we applied to work at NASA, the hiring guys would say, "This is [my professor's] student...Probably very good. Hire 'em." But then once we go hired, we would vandalize his name.
:rofl:

[Johnny]

Compared to what, exactly? B)

That's entirely up to you. B)

[cloakable]

I'm sane... it's the rest of the world thats crazy :ph34r:

[Jkrs]

"Show me a sane man, and I will cure him for you." - Carl Gustayv Jung

[nobarcode]

Heh..comfort the disturbed and disturb the comfortable.

[Crazy]

I am insane and in good mental health

[Johnny]

So far, this is coming out to be around a 60/40 split with 22 responses. This is not anything like I imagined.

[Johnny]

Yes, self image is what I am asking of people with respect to mental health, and it is also how I voted.

[giftedmadness@hotmail.com]

Speaking of mental health, I posted an essay I wrote in college on my website today. (Link below in my signature). The essay is titled, "An Introduction to Insanity". It's actually a collection of journal entries, actual emails, and recreated events that happened to me.

Thanks
GM

[Crazy]

The term "mental health" is subjective as well, unless you're actually talking about blood and oxygen levels, and amount of damaged/faulty tissue. I would call that "brain" health.

[nobarcode]

I still don't have enough information to vote, so I have not. :D

[Vagabond]

I still don't have enough information to vote, so I have not. :D
Can we vote for you..?

:D

[paladinoflunaria]

Melody wrote:

I am healthy, I ... well...

It is as if I am waiting for something and its non-arriving is making me feel sick. That's really weird. O_O I wonder what it is I am waiting for. *goes off to write a Socratic dialogue*

That's a pretty good summary. I would say that the INTP (and similar ones) personality type is confused with mental illnesses, that's all.

[Johnny]

I still don't have enough information to vote, so I have not. :D
Not a problem. Voting is not compulsory. :D

[MasterMerk]

I believe myself to be perfectly healthy in the mental department.

[Melody]

I would say that the INTP (and similar ones) personality type is confused with mental illnesses, that's all.
I am confused about this with myself because I have tics (minor neck twitches.) They are quite psychological, too. For example, when I am playing Samurai Showdown (a fighting game) and I am hit in an unexpected manner, my neck twitches. The more unexpected it is, the farther my neck travels. When I hit an enemy, sometimes my neck twitches as well. I think it has both to do with whether a hit is expected or not and the particular sound that occurs with it (Pavlov's dogs, and the game has a difficult learning curve.)

Anyway, I'm confused and now I don't feel like caring about it.

[antireconciler]

If everything in my life became stable and I felt that I had reached a state mentally that was not changing and seemed highly stable, I would be VERY concerned about my mental health. To a point, the more crap I have to deal with that seems to drag me down and throw me around, the more confident I am in my mental health. Even beyond that point where I start losing it, I'm deep down still loving the challenge I'm not quite able to rise to, and I can, as far as I know, always draw on this. Life is perpetually fun in a sense.

[Salad]

i wish i were slightly less sane. seems exciting.

but alas, i am perfectly mentally healthy despite my efforts to the contrary. that anticipation thing sounds familiar. it doesn't make me sick. just an eager anticipation, joyously awaiting something important.

i also tick. it's my right shoulder. it's almost like whiplash. i used to attribute it to getting chills from the cold, but i get it when it's warm now too. something about inactivity and mental relaxation, maybe. i like it though.

[Miss Padfoot]

I think I'm fairly healthy. I mean, yes I have some "familial discord" as you put it, but number one it could be worse, number two I only have problems with one-third of my family, and number three I'm fine as long as I'm avoiding them.

I don't think that the INTP personality type is inherently "disordered," but I do think that we might have a higher rate of mental disorders than the population as a whole. This is probably because we have to live every day in a society that favors ESTJs (at least American society seems to; I don't know about European or Asian).

[Strephonade]

Shouldn't that be 'caucasoids'?

Not that it makes much of a difference to your intended point.

[Miss Padfoot]

Really? That's fascinating! I suspect, however, that it's more of a society thing. You can act like an extravert and be an introvert, and probably vice versa. I bet Asian society simply doesn't expect people to be as loud as American society does. I bet Americans learn to be extraverted and some Asians learn to be introverted.

But I could be wrong.

[Miss Padfoot]

Wow! Fascinating. Ashkenazi Jews are uncommonly intelligent, and Asians are good in spatial scores. I can believe that.

It's fascinating what they said about blacks: that they have lower IQs on average; and that journalists who readily accept the advantages of Ashkenazi Jews and Mongoloids try to come up with arguments against the reliability of lower IQ scores in blacks.

[antireconciler]

Might not all be genetic ... read about the Flynn Effect at http://pespmc1.vub.ac.be/FLYNNEFF.html

[paladinoflunaria]

Melody wrote:


paladinoflunaria wrote:

I would say that the INTP (and similar ones) personality type is confused with mental illnesses, that's all.

I am confused about this with myself because I have tics (minor neck twitches.) They are quite psychological, too. For example, when I am playing Samurai Showdown (a fighting game) and I am hit in an unexpected manner, my neck twitches. The more unexpected it is, the farther my neck travels. When I hit an enemy, sometimes my neck twitches as well. I think it has both to do with whether a hit is expected or not and the particular sound that occurs with it (Pavlov's dogs, and the game has a difficult learning curve.)

Anyway, I'm confused and now I don't feel like caring about it.

Holy crap! I have a twitch as well. It seems as though it is a weaker form of Fe. I've managed, over the past couple years, to kill much of my Fe (even by INTP standards). Recently, I've begun to twitch my neck, arms, and sometimes legs whenever I think of something emotionally unpleasant. Perhaps I'm not far from killing it, or at least I'm partially there and the twitching is one of Fe's defense mechanisms.

You can't hold out forever, Fe! ARGHLEZAR!

[Melody]

Blacks having lower IQ's? >_> Drive into Chicago, you'll see why.

I've thought about the twitch being a way for something to escape. I...

whatever *runs around*

[paladinoflunaria]

Melody wrote:

Blacks having lower IQ's? >_> Drive into Chicago, you'll see why.


Seriously. I think it is completely cultural. Perhaps some areas simply have bad gene pools, but I'd say it's essentially cultural.

[Melody]

Yep, yep. By the way, Miss Padfoot, I know you didn't say you agreed with it. :D It's just that I have seen things like this referenced in other places.

[jittus rye]

Of course people that come from neighborhoods that thrive off of ignorance are going to tend to be more ignorant and underdeveloped.

[INTrPosr]

Blacks having lower IQ's? >_> Drive into Chicago, you'll see why. I've thought about the twitch being a way for something to escape. I...whatever *runs around*
The main reason that IQ test were ditched. They are culturally biased. IQ test have no bearing on intellect.

[INTrPosr]

Whether one considers themself mentally healthy is unfortunately subjective. How would you know and from what reference point would you make such a claim? I would think that anyone strongly denying the assertion, is ........ well in denial. I consider psychological health the same. As for my mental health, I would say it's average and psychologically in need of balance within myself.

[Clara]

:) (... means, I do, of course)

Because some of you are spending extra family time this week... and some of those you love might be stressed with making that all happen... so this is a reminder to translate whatever happens into appreciation - that these are people who love you "anyway" - in the face of differences, misunderstanding, and aggravation - and so it's pretty special. (They're not trying to "drive you crazy," just as you aren't, to them!)

A hug, or a gentle pat, say more than words - and words of appreciation are never amiss.

:hug: to everyone felling stressed - take care of yourselves, you hear? ;)

[tragula]

There is a seeming overlap between some of the traits for INTP and those describing Schizoid disorder. (I found this just from looking at Google.) But Schizoids show "fits of childish rage" and are unintersted in people, they don't "avoid" them out of shyness or frustration. So hopefully most people hanging out in a forum are self screened to not be Schizoids. If there really is such a thing! Psychiatrists and their labels. I think a lot of INTP have gotten so used to being labeled "not normal" by everyone that perhaps it begins to stick after a while.

I have known some people who I thought were like me, but turned out to be sort of dead inside. It was quite astonishing to realize that.

The question of whether introversion generally can be seen as "dysfunctional" is an interesting one, and bears further thought/discussion.

[last_caress]

I'm crazy.

[ohnoaninfp]

Nope.

[Nighthawk]

Blacks having lower IQ's? >_> Drive into Chicago, you'll see why.



Seriously. I think it is completely cultural. Perhaps some areas simply have bad gene pools, but I'd say it's essentially cultural.

Dr. Richard Herrnstein presents some fascinating (and controversial) research in this area in his book "The Bell Curve." Whether you agree or disagree, it's a real eye-opener.

[Sackanaka]

Is this a poll on differences in operational definitions or self-esteem?

[SheepDog]

Is this a poll on differences in operational definitions or self-esteem?
maybe.

[EternalCynic]

Depends on which day you catch me on, but I put "No," because I can. :)

[glassmoon]

It wasn't until I read about Asperger's Syndrome that it became clear to me - there seems to be some confusion about the description of the INTP personality type offered by Myers-Briggs and certain social or psychological disorders.

hi everybody
I found this very interesting point which I have linked myself when reading about Asperger's Syndrome. Some have suggested that Albert Einstein, one of the most famous INTp's, had AS. Anyway when reading the INTp's profile I can't not see that they share many traits, especially with the weak Feeling side.

by the way, was Vladimir Horowitz an INTp? its just something i had in my mind for a while...

Diagnostic Criteria For Asperger's Disorder: http://www.udel.edu/bkirby/asperger/aswhatisit.html

I found many similarities between AS and INTp's, like:

They may become isolated from society.
They may be completely unaware of how to express their inner world to others in a meaningful way.
They may not recognize basic social principles, such as appropriate dress and general behavior. (Quotes from http://www.personalitypage.com/INTP_per.html)

[Biff_Loman]

Have you met anyone with Asperger's? During my practice teaching experience, I had one student with the condition.

Trust me: I don't have it, no matter what it sounds like on paper.

[melancholeric]

My mother once thought I had it. but then she is an ESFJ, for whom your typical INTP behaviour is plain incomprehensible. And mental health professionals ruled that out immediately when she suggested that.

[glassmoon]

Have you met anyone with Asperger's?
I haven't met one but eventhough there are many points which make INTp seem close to it. Anyway it seems that INTP's aren't very social? for example, all the carreres suggested in http://www.personalitypage.com/INTP_car.html aren't social:

Scientists - especially Physics, Chemistry
Photographers
Strategic Planners
Mathematicians
University Professors
Computer Programmers, Systems Analysts, Computer Animation and Computer Specialists
Technical Writers
Engineers
Lawyers / Attorneys
Judges
Forensic Research
Forestry and Park Rangers

[glassmoon]

hi again,
I found these two links that might be close to what was discussed in here earlier:
http://www.star.qmul.ac.uk/~rmh/addNP.html
http://borntoexplore.org/debate.htm

[jyakulis]

hi again,
I found these two links that might be close to what was discussed in here earlier:
http://www.star.qmul.ac.uk/~rmh/addNP.html
http://borntoexplore.org/debate.htm


Heh interesting. I thought taking on a buncha tasks at work was me being more J like, but it says on there that's P behavior.

[MonChat]

MonChat is nuts.

[purple13]

My mother once thought I had it. but then she is an ESFJ, for whom your typical INTP behaviour is plain incomprehensible. And mental health professionals ruled that out immediately when she suggested that.

melan, your avatar is adorable!!

[melancholeric]

I'll change it after Xmas.

[purple13]

I already saved it.

[melancholeric]

Do you realize it is copyrighted?

[purple13]

Do I have your permission, if I promise not to make any money off it?
Oh, I should have asked first, where are my manners.

[melancholeric]

I only want you to apologize and delete the file.
This has gone way offtopic now.
Back on topic, i have add, some symptoms of lysdexia, have history of prolonged clinical depression that actually required hospitalization some years ago, hmm that's about it.

[Claverhouse]

I've copied the avatars of the last three speakers. And virtually any picture I see on the web at random. Had I but world enough and I time I'd copy every photo of a cat or chick off the entire internet.

Actually I'd delegate it to a devoted team of researchers, but you get the idea.



Claverhouse :ph34r:

[purple13]

I'm sorry. * file deleted *

[melancholeric]

I appreciate that. Also, I changed my avatar.
Could we FINALLY get back on topic? Please?

Btw, Claverhouse, wouldn't you run out of disk space fairly quickly?

[purple13]

Btw, Claverhouse, wouldn't you run out of disk space fairly quickly?

That question is off-topic. Please stick to the topic.

[melancholeric]

That question is off-topic. Please stick to the topic.
Sorry. I am distracted - look a bird - quite easily, due to my aforementioned ADD.

(Finally back on topic.)

[Garyincinci]

I'm completely Mentally Healthy. No I'm not. Yes I am. NO I'M NOT. YES! I AM!!

[glassmoon]

I found this website which deals further with the ADD debate: http://www.network54.com/Forum/thread?forumid=99039&messageid=1021732576&lp=1022009821

interesting claims, but I haven't got to read it throughly:

Jane>>>>>
<Snip> What percentage of people in the other 10 types ARE considered ADHD? <Paste>

Hold on to your socks Jane, this is probably going to shock you.

In the comparative research I've been doing over all these years, and have subsequently played into my research paper.

Out of all the preliminary test and control groups we have investigated. All of the statistics have shown that Sensate types (S) tend to be your farmer types. Whereas your hunter types tend to be Intuitive (N) types. In the matter of AD/HD diagnosis, those people that have been diagnosed as AD/HD in your Sensate groups (S), are the results of comorbities with preexisting medical, nutritional, psychological, and physiological problems.

The AD/HD symptoms and behaviors they exhibit are the results of these physiological/psychological problems they already have, that mimic and/or produce the same behavioral and symptom anomalies of the DSM-IV criteria for AD/HD diagnosis.

These types of people only make up a very small minority of the AD/HD population. Statistically speaking, they only account for a measly 10% to 20% of the overall AD/HD diagnosed masses.

[Phenylethylene]

I voted 'No'.

I have frequently and consistently tested as an INTP throughout the years. I am very confident of my T -- even in my earliest memories I recall purposefully and diligently assimilating knowledge. The various INTP profiles describe me astonishingly well. I also seem to experience environmental and primarily emotional tendancies of an HSP. I have been emotionally sensitive for as long as I can rember and can tend to read how people are feeling very naturally. When I was young (elementary school), my emotions were often very raw and visible - particularly sadness. As I have gotten older, I have developed a nack for controlling the outward appearance of my emotionality -- to the point that even when I am sure that everyone must know what I am feeling because the sense is so internally strong that I must be letting some slip out, others have said that they were completely unaware that I was feeling anything at all. My ability to empathize seems strange to me; I can rarely control it -- it doesn't always happen (sometimes only occasionally), but when it does I have to hope that I will enjoy the ride. I find that often I empathize more in 3rd person, as an observer, than when in direct contact with an idividual or situation. In direct contact situations, usually Ti kicks in at which point there is no room for empathy. I'm either trying to objectively fix someone's problems or focusing on mirroring because, unless I am very comforatable with a person, I don't really have a natural instinct on how to behave on my own.

Usually when stong emotions creep up (particularly in the recollection of memories -- anywhere from childhood to very recent history situations), an internal struggle for control begins with T -- this is were my sanity takes a seat in the back and I just have to hope I don't start arguing with or laughing to myself outloud in public until T can gain the upper hand. So far, so good -- mostly.

This unbridled emotionality seems more prominent and frequent when there is an incongruency in my daily habits with my INTPness. For instance, I am fairly miserable at work -- I am feeling pressured to perform tasks that I do not enjoy; many of these involve switching my P out for J, something I am loathe to do. The more I force myself to try to do these tasks, the more my INTPness resists. This translates into a whole host of issues -- mostly involving competency and responsiblity, which in turn produces a constant feeling of guilt while I get little to no work done. Even when the workday is over, the guilt remains -- leaving a playground of goodies for emotion to come play with.

So, no -- at the moment, I do not feel particularly healthy but I do know why at least.

[Miss Anthropic]

I'm not even going to quote here because I get to post directly after Phenyl, but, yeah, I know exactly what you are talking about. Well said... and all that inner conflict at work results in ackward people interactions, more guilt. For me, knowing about the personality type has made my life easier just because of being aware, and not the only one, or that I'm just defective.

[ObstinateBane]

If everything in my life became stable and I felt that I had reached a state mentally that was not changing and seemed highly stable, I would be VERY concerned about my mental health. To a point, the more crap I have to deal with that seems to drag me down and throw me around, the more confident I am in my mental health. Even beyond that point where I start losing it, I'm deep down still loving the challenge I'm not quite able to rise to, and I can, as far as I know, always draw on this. Life is perpetually fun in a sense. - antireconciler

This summed it up for me. But ya I'm naked as a Jay {no no no stupid stupid stupid} I'm loony as a bluehair in the florida sun.

[Irish Wolf]

As an Aspie, as well as INTP, I don't know if I can be considered mentally healthy or not. Mine is not an extreme case, after all, and I think I've adapted well enough to normal society (other than the frequent changes of employment, because I can never seem to quite grasp all of the unwritten, unspoken rules around me); however, there is still that fundamental disconnect with most of my "peers". My emotional responses never seem appropriate by societal standards, nor do I understand why most folk are set off by the things that upset them.

On the other hand, I haven't had any daydreams about throwing people through windows in years, so I guess that's a good thing...

[jread]

I am not mentally healthy and I have the prescription bottle to prove it ;)

[silencio]

I use to think I'm insane until I found out I am an INTP.
Now I think we all are. After all if it affects 1% of the population it will probably be classed as an illness.

[eyebyte_atWork]

Yes - I believe I am.

[Conan]

i dont know, ask my shrink

[attila_the_hunny]

I don't think I am mentally unsound, but that's because I'm pretty much always lived as if I were in a war. The few who have come to know me well over the years will disagree. That's because they're wrong.

[Helios]

i am as stable as a sub saharan multi-ethnic republic. today i am more like nigeria, corrupt and dangerous, but workable. other times however i am more like the former Zaire,total chaos, complete with a massive case of emotional ebola.

but you people already know i am fucking nuts!

[StarkReflection]

At the age of 13 or possibly before that i was diagnosed with Non Typical Aspergeus Syndrome, i am currently 17 and the past few years have been living away from my family ina school for the mentaly disabled in Wales.

My Disabiltie as some call it acts as Double Edged sword, i am very glad that i have it as it allows me to view the world in a very diffrent manner than most and i am content with who i am currently, but it does have its downsides...if you take the time to realise them.

If given the choice and more so if it was even possible...i would never rid myself of this gift.

[MacGuffin]

At the age of 13 or possibly before that i was diagnosed with Non Typical Aspergeus Syndrome, i am currently 17 and the past few years have been living away from my family ina school for the mentaly disabled in Wales.

My Disabiltie as some call it acts as Double Edged sword, i am very glad that i have it as it allows me to view the world in a very diffrent manner than most and i am content with who i am currently, but it does have its downsides...if you take the time to realise them.

If given the choice and more so if it was even possible...i would never rid myself of this gift.Welcome! Are there any disadvantages that you see?

[StarkReflection]

Hrmm, yeah there probably is but whether or not they would be a Disadvantage is subjective.

A good example would be that you tend to pick up most on the Detail rarther than the main Plot in most things, i have a hightend sensitivity to Atmospheric situations and iv'e become something of a Nihilst over time...well either that or just very Skeptical coupled with a Habit of reducing Values to naught, and then there is the part of becoming very involved or even obsessed with complex subjects.

It is also quite difficult to compare as i have lived with Aspergeus my whole life so i do not know what it is like to walk any other path so i can not a comparison.

But i do know from reading that Autism/Aspergeus have a difficult time in Social situations, i myself am not very social but compared to others in my situation i am quite "able".

[panda]

Aspergeus [...] But i do know from reading that Autism/Aspergeus have a difficult time in Social situations
Sorry to derail this thread... but isn't it "Asperger's"?

[StarkReflection]

Yeah that is the correct spelling for it :blush:

[Voice_Of_The_People]

I think I may suffer from a severe case of split personalities.

[Hexchild]

Sorry to derail this thread... but isn't it "Asperger's"?

Actually I think it's "Aspberger's". But then, I'm starting to grow unsure of it since loads of Internet resources say otherwise.

[Claverhouse]

Oh damn: not that old Hapsburg versus Hapsburg thing. Didn't the 1989 - 95 war over this single issue between tens of thousands of British High Schoolchildren teach us nothing ? There was extensive vicious street-fighting a la Stalingrad in our cities and the steady pom-pom of mortars issuing their deadly rain kept the countryside awake all night.

Haven't enough people died already ?



Claverhouse :ph34r:

[Zephyrus055]

I think I'm insane. Over the years, my ethical standards have increasingly become more and more bankrupt in favor of ruthless pragmatism. I'm also experimenting with people to maximize my appeal to them. I also pursue a life of egocentrism. This is also what my ethics revolve around.

I am also attempting to devise a system to easily predict the behavior of humans. I'm using this as a means to maximize my appeal to people.

Of course, I'm too lazy to do some of this, and my progress hasn't been as I expected. But... I'm still doing much better! I have like three notebook pages that draft out my human relations theory, after about a month of trying hard to concentrate.

[Shipper]

I spent nearly four hours last night analyzing the past events of my life, searching for potential psychological stimuli that could have triggered my manic depression in Junior High School.

So no, I do not consider myself entirely mentally healthy.

Keeping in line with the colloquial definition of "mental health," I find it relevant to mention that my philosophies have changed drastically over the past few years, and I have gravitated towards a rather extreme doctrine utilitarian pragmatism, an interesting dichotomy with the idealistic passion of my childhood.

[Llewellyn]

I guess mental health is defined as:

-not minding
-wanting

With respect to this I'm only just getting there. I mean I've always had a pretty good discipline (as for college and in jobs), but just now - in the social turmoil in the street - I'm shaking that off me (actively, at home) and feel restoring and to 'want' again. This just happened this afternoon, after I had returned from a small Christmas shopping I had to do.

[Paperhouse]

By identifying with a certain 4 letter personality profile that gives weight to your own traits, you automatically stagnate growth and stifle reality. Many of you are in thought loops in which you prove yourself by your own twisted logic. I bet many of you are latent schizophrenics.

I often wonder how many of you have read any of Jung's work besides Psychological Types.

I used to be a typical "INTP" type figure throughout high school and up until this summer. I thought the discovery of my "type" was a profound event in my life. Finally, a system in which puts everything into neat little boxes just like I have been doing my entire life, and loops back and justifies me doing so. Once you identify with your type to the extent to which you define other people by their own "types" you are putting yourself in a theoretical dream world that has nothing at all to do with reality.

In high school I was a typical asocial nerd who took pleasure in dismantling the environment around me with a few friends (at an all boys catholic school) through absurdist humor spread about, various pranks, and generally hating everything around me. I had always felt the same way my entire life, though this period was a time of release. There was always something not quite "right" since I was s child. One of my earliest memories in Pre-school was sitting in a room with like-aged kids trying and failing to relate to them. I enjoyed activities with my siblings like video games, elaborate fantasies, building with blocks, and reading.

I'm betting many of you can relate to this description, perhaps it will hold your interest.

Going back to me not being quite "right" ever. The visible aspects of this was my perpetual frown on my face, my tendency to pace around nervously, and towards paranoid ideation's. I remember not jumping into a pool during swimming lessons when there was my instructor there present about to catch me. Everything seemed to be more intense to me that for average people; even within my own family.

[MuseedesBeauxArts]

I bet many of you are latent schizophrenics.

Why, yes. How did you know?!

[Paperhouse]

By identifying with a certain 4 letter personality profile that gives weight to your own traits, you automatically stagnate growth and stifle reality. Many of you are in thought loops in which you prove yourself by your own twisted logic. I bet many of you are latent schizophrenics.

I often wonder how many of you have read any of Jung's work besides Psychological Types.

I used to be a typical "INTP" type figure throughout high school and up until this summer. I thought the discovery of my "type" was a profound event in my life. Finally, a system in which puts everything into neat little boxes just like I have been doing my entire life, and loops back and justifies me doing so. Once you identify with your type to the extent to which you define other people by their own "types" you are putting yourself in a theoretical dream world that has nothing at all to do with reality.

In high school I was a typical asocial nerd who took pleasure in dismantling the environment around me with a few friends (at an all boys catholic school) through absurdist humor spread about, various pranks, and generally hating everything around me. I had always felt the same way my entire life, though this period was a time of release. There was always something not quite "right" since I was s child. One of my earliest memories in Pre-school was sitting in a room with like-aged kids trying and failing to relate to them. I enjoyed activities with my siblings like video games, elaborate fantasies, building with blocks, and reading.

I'm betting many of you can relate to this description, perhaps it will hold your interest.

Going back to me not being quite "right" ever. The visible aspects of this was my perpetual frown on my face, my tendency to pace around nervously, and towards paranoid ideation's. I remember not jumping into a pool during swimming lessons when there was my instructor there present about to catch me. Everything seemed to be more intense to me that for average people; even within my own family.

On to the next part-- trust me, I do have a conclusion to all of this. After high school, I went to a college with the typical "INTP" attitude of wanting to do everything. I switched majors from Chemistry, to CIS, to Journalism and my academic advisor would often ask if there was anything bothering me because of my persistent frown and indecisiveness. But I KNEW there was nothing wrong because it was the world that was wrong; after all I was an "INTP" this is how I WAS and there was other people out there just like me. Anything anyone said to me would be faced with a fierce logic that I used at my will ever since I was a child. And now I was certain that I was just "smarter than everybody" because I was always computing something in my head, and everyone else wasn't, and that made me an INTP...Everyone around me was dumb because they didn't share my same interests in philosophy, intense music collecting, obscure comedy shows. My isolation and paranoid thinking grew and grew until it hit a breaking point to where I thought marijuana would be the cure to all of my ills. In one way it was, but not in a way that I anticipated.

This Feburary I smoked pot that I believed to be laced with PCP afterwards because it gave me an intense out of body experience and a dissolution of time and space to the point to where I fell on the ground, lost my ego and felt pain for an eternity. I figured this must be hell so I pleaded to God to let me out, and as soon as I did this, I was conscious again. But there was a problem... I was an atheist...


On to the next part-- trust me, I do have a conclusion to all of this. After high school, I went to a college with the typical "INTP" attitude of wanting to do everything. I switched majors from Chemistry, to CIS, to Journalism and my academic advisor would often ask if there was anything bothering me because of my persistent frown and indecisiveness. But I KNEW there was nothing wrong because it was the world that was wrong; after all I was an "INTP" this is how I WAS and there was other people out there just like me. Anything anyone said to me would be faced with a fierce logic that I used at my will ever since I was a child. And now I was certain that I was just "smarter than everybody" because I was always computing something in my head, and everyone else wasn't, and that made me an INTP...Everyone around me was dumb because they didn't share my same interests in philosophy, intense music collecting, obscure comedy shows. My isolation and paranoid thinking grew and grew until it hit a breaking point to where I thought marijuana would be the cure to all of my ills. In one way it was, but not in a way that I anticipated.

This Feburary I smoked pot that I believed to be laced with PCP afterwards because it gave me an intense out of body experience and a dissolution of time and space to the point to where I fell on the ground, lost my ego and felt pain for an eternity. I figured this must be hell so I pleaded to God to let me out, and as soon as I did this, I was conscious again. But there was a problem... I was an atheist...

After this I thought nothing of it really, until it happened AGAIN. I smoked some weed in April I knew wasn't laced at all, and I got the same dissociation paired with existentialist thoughts such as "who am I, where am I?" I called my best friend up on the phone and described to him what was happening to me, my friend being a catholic told me that I needed God. At this point I would like to point out that I was a catholic too until around age 14-15, when I stopped believing in God entirely. Thinking of God DID pull me out of this and I filled with an intense feeling that I could only describe as "the presence of God". This understandably confused the living FUCK out of me, because I now had two worldviews that conflicted. Since my thought process has always been to examine everything by logical comparison, I began to delve into existentialist philosophy, my childhood, religion, in the course of a month. By the end of the month I concluded that nothing was real, and everything was merely a dream and suffered a mental breakdown to which I was hospitalized for.

When I was in the hospital I was surrounded by alcoholics, depressives, and bi-polar people. When I told the nurses what I was in for and there presumed assessment of me based on the way I acted, they told me that every once in a while they get people like me in there, and that I would probably be put on mild anti psychotics for the rest of my life and become a genius professor. This troubled me greatly, because everything that I was labeled or labeled myself I had to live up, because after all people thought there was some truth to it. This also ties in with the INTP "Chameleon effect" which I will analyze in depth later.

I was eventually released from the hospital on a heavy dose of anti-psychotics and prozac--my diagnosis was a loose and hesitant "bi polar disorder" because more often than not I was perfectly sane but just very much introverted as I had been my entire life.

Upon my release I was still majorly confused on what exactly happened to me during the month of May. There had to be an explanation to al of this, there had to be an explanation to life.


After this I thought nothing of it really, until it happened AGAIN. I smoked some weed in April I knew wasn't laced at all, and I got the same dissociation paired with existentialist thoughts such as "who am I, where am I?" I called my best friend up on the phone and described to him what was happening to me, my friend being a catholic told me that I needed God. At this point I would like to point out that I was a catholic too until around age 14-15, when I stopped believing in God entirely. Thinking of God DID pull me out of this and I filled with an intense feeling that I could only describe as "the presence of God". This understandably confused the living FUCK out of me, because I now had two worldviews that conflicted. Since my thought process has always been to examine everything by logical comparison, I began to delve into existentialist philosophy, my childhood, religion, in the course of a month. By the end of the month I concluded that nothing was real, and everything was merely a dream and suffered a mental breakdown to which I was hospitalized for.

When I was in the hospital I was surrounded by alcoholics, depressives, and bi-polar people. When I told the nurses what I was in for and there presumed assessment of me based on the way I acted, they told me that every once in a while they get people like me in there, and that I would probably be put on mild anti psychotics for the rest of my life and become a genius professor. This troubled me greatly, because everything that I was labeled or labeled myself I had to live up, because after all people thought there was some truth to it. This also ties in with the INTP "Chameleon effect" which I will analyze in depth later.

I was eventually released from the hospital on a heavy dose of anti-psychotics and prozac--my diagnosis was a loose and hesitant "bi polar disorder" because more often than not I was perfectly sane but just very much introverted as I had been my entire life.

Upon my release I was still majorly confused on what exactly happened to me during the month of May. There had to be an explanation to al of this, there had to be an explanation to life.
I was still on a quest to find "myself" in the summer and I decided the drugs must go in this process of self discovery. After many twists of the arm of my father and my psychatrist, I was taken off the anti psychotics but left on prozac. Now I could finnally be myself I thought. But what did "myself" mean? Why could I never decide on one thing? Why did I want to be everything all at once? Why was everything deflected with harsh logic and I enjoyed nothing? There had to be an explanation to life. I had to continue on with these questions or I would feel dissociated from my body with a floating sensation. Any piece to the puzzle that didn't fit had an immediate psychological and physical affect upon me. I delved into existentialist philosophy again; I read Sartre's Nausea which explained my condition of dissociation and obsessive questioning to a frightening degree. I felt as if I was going around in circles and my thoughts at this time probably resembled those of of disorganized schizophrenic-- but I continued to hold my job and a few friends. I spent all of my time reading Camus, Sartre and Kierkegaard.


I was still on a quest to find "myself" in the summer and I decided the drugs must go in this process of self discovery. After many twists of the arm of my father and my psychatrist, I was taken off the anti psychotics but left on prozac. Now I could finnally be myself I thought. But what did "myself" mean? Why could I never decide on one thing? Why did I want to be everything all at once? Why was everything deflected with harsh logic and I enjoyed nothing? There had to be an explanation to life. I had to continue on with these questions or I would feel dissociated from my body with a floating sensation. Any piece to the puzzle that didn't fit had an immediate psychological and physical affect upon me. I delved into existentialist philosophy again; I read Sartre's Nausea which explained my condition of dissociation and obsessive questioning to a frightening degree. I felt as if I was going around in circles and my thoughts at this time probably resembled those of of disorganized schizophrenic-- but I continued to hold my job and a few friends. I spent all of my time reading Camus, Sartre and Kierkegaard.

Many of my attempts at synthesis between these philosophies can be read on a blog I started with an internet friend in the summer here:-http://anythingandevery.blogspot.com/

I was spinning around in circles, until I found the almighty JUNG. In reading an introductory book by him I realized that I had come up with many of his theories independently. Most of them have to do with the exploration of the "true self" and of religious imagery and thought. Suddenly things made sense. I had a framework from which to build on now. From the end of the summer on, I read most of his work and it made much sense. You see, one of my main issues of the time was that I would read something, anything, and begin to look at the world in those terms because I could see how they made sense. I had no grounding. My grounding was logic. From Jung I learned that "reason alone does not suffice", that there is something called the "self" that is the union of opposites in an individual that comes from the realization of unconscious contents in your psyche. The soul is real-- it is your psyche which works in essentially the same way with all humans.


Many of my attempts at synthesis between these philosophies can be read on a blog I started with an internet friend in the summer here:-http://anythingandevery.blogspot.com/

I was spinning around in circles, until I found the almighty JUNG. In reading an introductory book by him I realized that I had come up with many of his theories independently. Most of them have to do with the exploration of the "true self" and of religious imagery and thought. Suddenly things made sense. I had a framework from which to build on now. From the end of the summer on, I read most of his work and it made much sense. You see, one of my main issues of the time was that I would read something, anything, and begin to look at the world in those terms because I could see how they made sense. I had no grounding. My grounding was logic. From Jung I learned that "reason alone does not suffice", that there is something called the "self" that is the union of opposites in an individual that comes from the realization of unconscious contents in your psyche. The soul is real-- it is your psyche which works in essentially the same way with all humans.

Because much of what Jung wrote is intuitive, I immediatley grasped it and took it as my own for comparison, and since a lot of his work focuses on the immediate experience of the individual, I was able to break free of logical terms and begin to synthesize things for MYSELF for the first time in a long while. When I first made the discovery of my true self, I felt essentially the same way as I did when I was a child. "INTP's" are notorious for there "feelings" of places, well I felt as if everything in me was one, that all of my positive traits were at the fore front, and a universal feeling of peace that I hadn't felt since I was a child.

Jung also offered explanations of psychosis that differ from the modern "chemical imbalance" tripe that is the norm today. Through his readings I gained an idea of how mental illnesses work, and their relationship to intelligence.

Simply put, your personality and "self" are micorcosomos of the world and your place in it. You refelct yourself off the world and in turn, any knowledge gained by you becomes knowledge of your self. This is what Jung called the Individuation process. Highly analytical folks like the people here tend to be very insecure about the world and hence themselves because we see everything in terms of systems that WE CREATE, and subsequently DESTROY when new information comes across. The way in which bi-polar people think is by comparing themselves to the world and building up self's that don't correspond with reality, then deconstructing them without any real knowledge gained. I am willing to bet that a lot of "INTP's" are clinically bi-polar due to this mode of thought. The way the schizophrenics think is by sectioning off different parts of their personality due to a theory they have about the world, the sectioning off splinters the personality and hence the subject's worldview. What most people don't realize is that everything in the psyche is perserved, but we can delegate some of it to the unconscious realm.. where it still exists, and wrecks havoc on the total personality in the form of indecisiveness, disorganization, and other nasty phenomenon.


Because much of what Jung wrote is intuitive, I immediatley grasped it and took it as my own for comparison, and since a lot of his work focuses on the immediate experience of the individual, I was able to break free of logical terms and begin to synthesize things for MYSELF for the first time in a long while. When I first made the discovery of my true self, I felt essentially the same way as I did when I was a child. "INTP's" are notorious for there "feelings" of places, well I felt as if everything in me was one, that all of my positive traits were at the fore front, and a universal feeling of peace that I hadn't felt since I was a child.

Jung also offered explanations of psychosis that differ from the modern "chemical imbalance" tripe that is the norm today. Through his readings I gained an idea of how mental illnesses work, and their relationship to intelligence.

Simply put, your personality and "self" are micorcosomos of the world and your place in it. You refelct yourself off the world and in turn, any knowledge gained by you becomes knowledge of your self. This is what Jung called the Individuation process. Highly analytical folks like the people here tend to be very insecure about the world and hence themselves because we see everything in terms of systems that WE CREATE, and subsequently DESTROY when new information comes across. The way in which bi-polar people think is by comparing themselves to the world and building up self's that don't correspond with reality, then deconstructing them without any real knowledge gained. I am willing to bet that a lot of "INTP's" are clinically bi-polar due to this mode of thought. The way the schizophrenics think is by sectioning off different parts of their personality due to a theory they have about the world, the sectioning off splinters the personality and hence the subject's worldview. What most people don't realize is that everything in the psyche is perserved, but we can delegate some of it to the unconscious realm.. where it still exists, and wrecks havoc on the total personality in the form of indecisiveness, disorganization, and other nasty phenomenon.

I am willing to bet that a lot of "INTP's" are nearly schizophrenic or at least Schizoid. Another way in which danger is bread in "INTP" thought is by assigning to fix variable to things in a system. This is not refelctive of reality; reality is ever changing. The systems that INTP's build up need to be constantly updated because they no longer fit after a duration and put the subject in a box, or as my friend describes it "a circus tent" of fixed variables. There is infinite potential for individuation and personal growth, there is always something to be learned. However, by putting certain things into an enclosed system can be very detrimental to mental health. As Jung put it, "reason alone does not suffice". Some things can only be expressed symbolically, which is the attempt of myths, archetypes, and religion to express.


I am willing to bet that a lot of "INTP's" are nearly schizophrenic or at least Schizoid. Another way in which danger is bread in "INTP" thought is by assigning to fix variable to things in a system. This is not refelctive of reality; reality is ever changing. The systems that INTP's build up need to be constantly updated because they no longer fit after a duration and put the subject in a box, or as my friend describes it "a circus tent" of fixed variables. There is infinite potential for individuation and personal growth, there is always something to be learned. However, by putting certain things into an enclosed system can be very detrimental to mental health. As Jung put it, "reason alone does not suffice". Some things can only be expressed symbolically, which is the attempt of myths, archetypes, and religion to express.

As I grew and grew as a person these last few months, I finally got what I always wanted: a girlfriend who was interested in the subjects as me: philosophy, music, film, books of all sorts, and even had a band that was recording in a real studio in Hollywood. We immediatley fell in love; a concept I didn't know existed before. The cummulation of the events in which we met had me getting kicked out of my house due to an extremley conservative dad discovering his son with a naked girl in his bed, me living with her for a month or so, and me totaling me car in route to her place from my work.

She broke up with me yesterday because I was inadvertetnly triggering her PTSD brought on by an abusive father she had who also was a genius professor... whenever we got into arguments she said that I would "sound like her dad reincarnate" and she had flashbacks. I love her, so I agreed to break up with her yesterday, Christmas.


As I grew and grew as a person these last few months, I finally got what I always wanted: a girlfriend who was interested in the subjects as me: philosophy, music, film, books of all sorts, and even had a band that was recording in a real studio in Hollywood. We immediatley fell in love; a concept I didn't know existed before. The cummulation of the events in which we met had me getting kicked out of my house due to an extremley conservative dad discovering his son with a naked girl in his bed, me living with her for a month or so, and me totaling me car in route to her place from my work.

She broke up with me yesterday because I was inadvertetnly triggering her PTSD brought on by an abusive father she had who also was a genius professor... whenever we got into arguments she said that I would "sound like her dad reincarnate" and she had flashbacks. I love her, so I agreed to break up with her yesterday, Christmas.

I suppose the reason why I am here posting this today is because I wanted to share my soul searching and findings with a bunch of people that may find this to be encouraging; Jung's work need not be a prison from which you need to break free from, it can be a liberator of the spirit.

My main point is that "INTPs" lack self knowledge which is a pre-requisite for comparison and life in the real world.

[JohnClay]

I've been to hospital 4 times (I think the most recent time was 2 years ago) and have been diagnosed with Schizo-Affective Disorder (formerly biploar disorder) I am currently relatively mentally healthy but voted that I'm not.

[Llewellyn]

I often wonder how many of you have read any of Jung's work besides Psychological Types.


Which one do you recommend?



Once you identify with your type to the extent to which you define other people by their own "types" you are putting yourself in a theoretical dream world that has nothing at all to do with reality.


I'm slighty 'tended' to make things worse. I have a pretty calm life (well, externally), learning a lot. Resocializing even, as I see it, stabilizing my subconscious. But, indeed I am working hard to prevent the identifying you describe, especially with how I see others. Also logically, it holds no sense (if that is English), cause if MBTI were valid, everything (essential in life) would start from that (and not end at that, it would never be leading). I do have a tendency to put myself in a less advantageous situation, from which I have to work myself out.

[Paperhouse]

Which one do you recommend?


.

The Undiscovered Self and Man and His Symbols, for starters.

[bethanygm]

Yeah, and it's like that something is over a very steep and slippery hill. I can sprint up it, get a momentary gaze at that elusive something, but inevitabely I'll come stumbling back down. If I try to get up slowly, it will feel like I'm getting nowhere and I'm just putting myself through drudgery. It's not depression or anything, but still...

Holy crap.


It's an elusive feeling, though. I don't always feel like that. Sometimes it's just numb and normal and that never feels right, either.

[bethanygm]

I was thinking strongfully, and I believe I am waiting for school to end. Me feels something has to be reasoned with and adjusted, because requiring things to constantly change will leave me depressed forever. Unless I can go from being a software architect to a ... hmmm... not bad... One of my professors at my school is probably INTP, and this guy has been everyfreakingwhere. He's worked for NASA, for example. &gt;_&gt; He's been a lot of things in many other places. That doesn't sound like such a bad life. lol He is critical of the school's curriculum and said that he was trying to get the school to fix it. He said it was important because if we applied to work at NASA, the hiring guys would say, "This is [my professor's] student...Probably very good. Hire 'em." But then once we go hired, we would vandalize his name.
:rofl:

lol that sounds very INTP. hahah:theclap:

[Llewellyn]

The Undiscovered Self and Man and His Symbols, for starters.

I've found Psychological Types helpful in putting me in my place. But I soon gave that up... Until I watched three episodes of Wallace & Gromit this afternoon. This kinda gave a similar effect and offered a nice conclusion of the holiday.

Your story is impressive. I don't think I'm too logical. I don't feel the need to explain all and everything, though I am tempted to keep (re)thinking forever. But what you say in seeing the world in the light of something you just read sounds recognizeable for me. I agree on your main point too. I'll keep your story in reach and am going to check if the works of Jung you mention are something.

[Llewellyn]

When I told the nurses what I was in for and there presumed assessment of me based on the way I acted, they told me that every once in a while they get people like me in there, and that I would probably be put on mild anti psychotics for the rest of my life and become a genius professor. This troubled me greatly, because everything that I was labeled or labeled myself I had to live up, because after all people thought there was some truth to it. This also ties in with the INTP "Chameleon effect" which I will analyze in depth later.


Do you mean you were seen for all kinds of things you weren't aware of?
I look forward to your analysis.



I was eventually released from the hospital on a heavy dose of anti-psychotics and prozac--my diagnosis was a loose and hesitant "bi polar disorder" because more often than not I was perfectly sane but just very much introverted as I had been my entire life.


What I think is that an "INTP" (well, we are stuck with the name...) almost never truly has one of these mentioned mental conditions but has a little bit of each (actually chameleons them??). The main concern here could be that it is easy for us to stick to this single thing ('thinking') while we neglect so much more that there is.

Edit: I do think this is all a legitimate quest. It is important to see it all as a positive process. This you seem to do, and, people aren't really bothering it, right?

[notjeffgoldblum]

vague definition is vague

[Ferrus]

Well, no. But it's not so bad that I'm not functional.

[Wingman]

I know I am mentally unhealthy. Despite the fact I only have a few insecurities. My reason for believing myself to be mentally unhealthy is that I cannot handle happiness. I need conflict. Because of my 'problem solving', if there is no drama no problems, I can't exist. Worse is that I am depressed because I am alone. Although I've spend the majority of my life single, therefore I am used to it, it still hurts from time to time. The only things in life keeping me going is my pride and my desire to fulfill my dreams.

[Pearlrose]

I'm not as insane as my mind thinks it wants me to be, but I'm attempting to develope a mental illness and/or personality disorder. Why? you ask. Simply to see if I can.

[Polyskepsis]

I'm almost insane by societal standards.

[Notsweetynice]

Unless you are actually certifiably nuts I think it is important to think of yourself as mentally healthy...If you don't then you end up like a pseudo SJ, never really self-actualizing and having a pathetic self-concept. You could also end up like too many people I know on 'meds' who think they are finally 'happy', but really seem strange and empty. Their smiles and eyes seem very off.

[teleforce]

i usually consider myself healthy, so i'll say yes.

[Perseus]

All Judgers are liable to consider INTPs weird = mentally disordered if their reaction is contrary to what is expected in society. Or if someone simply does not like them in the mental health quack kery (Psi Cops).

[Digital Future]

I have been clinically insane twice in my life. The fact I was religious did not help matters. It prevented me from thinking rationally and made me believe some external force was responsible for all the shit that was going on in my life. I got obsessed with good an evil and thought the devil himself was coming for me (lost a family member).

I’m an atheist now which should help matters.

I guess I'm one of the lucky ones that made it back out of insanity (twice). Not everyone is successful.

[ChristopherL]

Intp's exist at emotional puberty.

The can either become sociopaths(the purest form of human existence) or (pacifists, the most brainwashed of all stereotypes.)

Instead usually they just kind of sit in a sort of existential decision paralysis.

I do not believe that types are innate and unchangeable, I think in fact that psychosis, schizophrenia, bipolar disorder, etc etc are simply the psyche trying to reconstitute itself into a form more amenable to the world in which we live.
"Disorders" like Avoidant and Schizoid are simply the result of the inability to actually make the change.