as God is my witness.....

[Helios]

....I can't seem to care what you people believe. Which bothers me! I really wish I wanted to add something here, but for the life of me to seems totally pointless. My own belief structure while evolving, is fairly developed already. I am much more concerned about its detachment from the reality of my life than telling you about it.Besides, I doubt anything anyone says here impacts much beyond the obvious inflammatory manner.


Hmm maybe it is just INTP arrogance? I think I have no knowledge to gain, and doubt anyone is gonna listen to me, so I have no interest. Well I must have some interest or I wouldn't have spent the time typing this shit out, but you get my point...........I hope.

[Serotonin]

I get it...... in death, members of Project Mayhem have a name. His name is Robert Polson. :p

No really, I do. We attach ourselves too readily to our own thought structures and aren't willing enough to listen to others without prejudice i.e. our own logical filter. It didn't really take me until a couple of years ago to find an equilibrium between being firm about what I know and a willingness to listen to other people's point of view.

Bullshit you have no knowledge to gain. Read about genetics, anthropology, 19th century Russian literature, car mechanics, psychology of parent/child separation.... the list is endless.
Then come back and tell me your belief structure is fairly developed.

I guess the solution is to say: I know what I know, I don't know what I don't know, and that goes for everyone else in this world. If we can find some common ground then fantastic. The best way to find common ground is to fill your mind with knowledge and experience. The road is still long, and it's in front of you dude...

[Helios]

Bullshit you have no knowledge to gain. Read about genetics, anthropology, 19th century Russian literature, car mechanics, psychology of parent/child separation.... the list is endless.
Then come back and tell me your belief structure is fairly developed.




Damn I was afraid of this, I should have refined my point a bit more.

Refraining from dancing around the point this time I was speaking strictly of the Philo/spirituality forum, which excludes the above sujects.

[songbird36]

One doesn't know anything until the day one dies Helios.

And even then, one's *lack* of knowledge and understanding is infinite.

[Miss Anthropic]

....I can't seem to care what you people believe. Which bothers me! I really wish I wanted to add something here, but for the life of me to seems totally pointless. My own belief structure while evolving, is fairly developed already. I am much more concerned about its detachment from the reality of my life than telling you about it.Besides, I doubt anything anyone says here impacts much beyond the obvious inflammatory manner.


Hmm maybe it is just INTP arrogance? I think I have no knowledge to gain, and doubt anyone is gonna listen to me, so I have no interest. Well I must have some interest or I wouldn't have spent the time typing this shit out, but you get my point...........I hope.
And you are typing this because.......Do you think the rest of us care? It is INTP arrogance and we are all here cozily experiencing it as we type to see ourselves think.

[Helios]

And you are typing this because.......Do you think the rest of us care? It is INTP arrogance and we are all here cozily experiencing it as we type to see ourselves think.


Damn! Caught me!

[meshou]

I don't see anything wrong with saying what strangers on the internet say is not likely to change my opinion on anything. I won't limit that to philosophy or religion.

There's a certain amount of open you have to be that's not available here that I'd have to be to get to any of my fundamental beliefs. They're not secret, just the way it works.

What's wrong with someone saying that somewhat shallow expressions of ideas which don't matter to him aren't likely to change his life? Opinions that don't matter to me aren't having huge impacts on the lives of people I don't know? Oh noes! Whatever shall I do!

Uuuh... yeah. *pat-pat* There there, Helios. I think I'll live if my opinions don't matter. Really.

[Helios]

Hmmm forgive me 'cause I should be asleep, but I think this is all my fault, perhaps the truth is a I resent the fact that most things here devolve into the clash of the atheists and fundamentalists, hence I have imposed a sour grapes attitude on the whole thing, or maybe I should try to go to sleep again.

[misutii]

must make something matter. . . but nothing ever does
fuck the broken slide let's go on the swings, but they're broken too

[Architectonic]

Hmmm forgive me 'cause I should be asleep, but I think this is all my fault, perhaps the truth is a I resent the fact that most things here devolve into the clash of the atheists and fundamentalists, hence I have imposed a sour grapes attitude on the whole thing, or maybe I should try to go to sleep again.

Perhaps you should have been more specific in the first place. :)

[Forloren]

Hmmm forgive me 'cause I should be asleep, but I think this is all my fault, perhaps the truth is a I resent the fact that most things here devolve into the clash of the atheists and fundamentalists, hence I have imposed a sour grapes attitude on the whole thing, or maybe I should try to go to sleep again.
Maybe I am not understanding what you are saying, but I'm the first to admit that I don't know much about anything. I am neither an atheist nor a fundamentalist. However, I enjoy knowing the views of each. Once I filter out all the BS they use, you are left with two differing views of the same topic, and it's easier to analize something when you have different ways to look at it. When you think outside the box, anything may be possible.

-Forloren

[s]

.....


Hmm maybe it is just INTP arrogance? I think I have no knowledge to gain, and doubt anyone is gonna listen to me, so I have no interest. Well I must have some interest or I wouldn't have spent the time typing this shit out, but you get my point...........I hope.


I could never in a thousand lifetimes learn enough to satisfy my brain's thirst.

s, INTP

[MacGuffin]

I could never in a thousand lifetimes learn enough to satisfy my brain's thirst.

s, INTP
Give it some alcohol. That'll shut it up.

[s]

Give it some alcohol. That'll shut it up.


[previously in pm]

Div: "Only together can we turn s to the Dark Side of the Force."

MacGuffin: "As you wish."

[Sir Isaac Lime]

Give it some alcohol. That'll shut it up.

Or give it some marijuana and watch it spin out of control.

[ApeTheDog]

Or give it some edible panties and watch it not know how to behave around you anymore.

[meshou]

Or give it some edible panties and watch it not know how to behave around you anymore.I think I love you.

[Jacque]

Well I must have some interest or I wouldn't have spent the time typing this shit out, but you get my point...........I hope.

Misery loves company???

[Helios]

I could never in a thousand lifetimes learn enough to satisfy my brain's thirst.

s, INTP



No, I said I was only lamenting the fact that I found little of value in this part of the forum, some how that has been misunderstood as me saying I have nothing left to learn. I made no claim of being all knowing folks, just was briefly dismayed with the spirituality forum, and my own spirituality as well, no doubt that was really the core issue and not the forum.

Can't one be abstract, lost, and confused around here?! :rant:

[meshou]

No, I said I was only lamenting the fact that I found little of value in this part of the forum, some how that has been misunderstood as me saying I have nothing left to learn. I made no claim of being all knowing folks, just was briefly dismayed with the spirituality forum, and my own spirituality as well, no doubt that was really the core issue and not the forum.

Can't one be abstract, lost, and confused around here?! :rant:Hey, the spirituality forum kinda does suck. No disagreement here.

It becomes easily polarized. Everyone's expressing their opinion in a way that leaves them guarded against attack. Nothing extremely deep gets said or discussed because the antagonism prevents discussion from going much beyond the basics.

We're all devil's advocates here. One on one, that works. Fifty people all nipping at each other? Naw.

It does suck that there's not much fulfillment to be found with communing with those you relate strongly to if you want that. Your dismay is natural. It may be there's not much here to learn.

This may get me some flack, but try an INFP forum or community when talking about spirituality. They may be similar enough to be useful to you, and they tend to be extremely big on accepting other's ideas, and talking about them on their merits even if they disagree. You might find them useful for idea generating.

Or not. Whatever.

[Sackanaka]

I think it is possible to give a well-made thread on philosophy and spirituality. It's just the nonchalant apathy that doesn't quite give a shit. That said, yeah I do dislike the lack of new insights.
Be the next Kiekegaard or Nietzche or whoever! Save us all, Helios!
(cuz I already tried and died)

[Helios]

Save us all, Helios!
(cuz I already tried and died)



No, Sackanaka, it was your very valiant attempt that really started all this in the first place. Sometimes your not hungry till ya smell something cookin'

[ApeTheDog]

I think I love you. Yes, unfortunately it is not mutual, because I don't love myself at all.

[Xenophon]

This is interesting, because the Philosophy & Spirituality section of the forum is the only section that I find interesting at all. Sure, it is nearly impossible to change someone else's philsophical and spiritual views, but why would anybody want to do that? I post in this forum for two reasons:

1) So that I can actually put some of the stuff that I think about so much into words, I find that trying to express my ideas really helps me gain a better understanding of them.

2) Because I am not at all satisfied with my philosophical outlook on life, and often there will be some sort of sticking point that will make me rethink many of the things that I had long since figured out.

I find that I have to pick and choose which threads I will actually read though, as I generally think very long and hard before I write anything, and I find if I make more than 2-3 posts in a day it really takes up a lot of my time.

[J.L. des Alpins]

My own belief structure while evolving, is fairly developed already.
Because I am not at all satisfied with my philosophical outlook on life…Is there one specific school of thoughts (religion, philosophy, system of belief) that you feel matches best your understanding of yourself and the world around you?

I, for instance, and as my signature suggests, am a “Sartrian Existentialist”, for whatever it’s worth. Sartre’s philosophy and literature has been instrumental in my development of an understanding of who I am and how to take control of some ‘darker side’ of my thinking (like anger, keeping grudges, seeking revenge).

There is most probably no one system that matches you perfectly, but it could give us a point of reference for exploration and exchange.

JL

[Xenophon]

The thing is that every time I read about some new philosophy I try to work it in. I am strong believer in Leibnitz's idea: Philosophers are generally right in what they affirm, but generally wrong in what they oppose. If I really had to choose one though, I would say that taoism fits my beliefs the closest, but mostly because it is very broad, and leaves much open to personal interpretation.

[J.L. des Alpins]

The thing is that every time I read about some new philosophy I try to work it in. I am strong believer in Leibnitz's idea: Philosophers are generally right in what they affirm, but generally wrong in what they oppose. If I really had to choose one though, I would say that taoism fits my beliefs the closest, but mostly because it is very broad, and leaves much open to personal interpretation.Philosophies have a way to contradict themselves, to refute one another, to reinterpret what an earlier one says, in effect, to confuse the hell of common mortals who are peeking at them. Attempting to understand it all is, for all practical purpose, futile. [Jay Stevenson gives a good general overview though with his book The Complete Idiot's Guide to Philosophy (2nd Edition).]


http://www.intpcentral.com/uploads/JL.IdiotPhilo.r1.gif

To make philosophy work for you, you have to, at one point, cease your lateral exploration, pick one specific school of thoughts, then dive into in with all your mind and soul.

You seem to have a preference for the rationalist Leibniz (“God has chosen to make actual the best of all possible worlds”) and the syncretist Lao Tzu’s Tao (From an observation of the visible manifestation of the Absolute Tao, it is possible to intuit the existence of an ultimate substratum that is the source of all things). One common thing between the two is the suggestion of a transcendental force (‘God’ and ‘Tao’) that maintains order in the world.

As you explore deeper, it is important that you find ‘solutions’ to some of the issues you are dealing with in your life. (Otherwise, what’s the point of studying philosophy?) It could be issues of any kind. As you find more and more solutions, the philosophy you have chosen becomes more valuable to you.

No philosophy yet can fix all problems, but they all can help in some ways.

An example that applies to me. At one time years ago I was faced with the decision to either keep my stable, well-paying job, or start a business. For months I have been weighting pros and cons of both sides. I had reached a deadlock. I was mortified. I could not logically resolve ‘who I am’ vs. ‘who I want to be’.

Sartre’s philosophy gave me the guidance I needed. It says that “you are not what you are, and you are what you are not”. Without going through ten pages of explanation, this means that everything you have done that makes you what you are is in the past and is immutable. Everything you can possibly do today must then be something new, different. Thus the sum of all your possibilities is what makes you as a being (according to phenomenology), which is everything that you are not (yet). All ‘you’ in ‘your past’, being immutable, is not you anymore and cannot ever be you again.

With this understanding, the decision I had to make for my career became obvious. I knew that at that moment, I was ‘not an entrepreneur’, thus if I start my business I thought I would fail. Yet, I wanted to run my own business. So, if I am not what I am, then I am not ‘not an entrepreneur’, that is, entrepreneurship is one of my possibilities. I jumped on the opportunity and I have been happy ever since.

(What a long post. We are in the Philosophy forum however, so I suppose it is OK.)

Do you have a personal issue, which you would like to explore with philosophy?

JL