INTPc Noob Subforum

[CheeZ]

I've been debating an idea and I'd like some input from you fine folks.

Think of it as something like a kiddie pool. A place for noobs to become acclimated with the idea of a forum in general, and a forum full of INTPs specifically, before they're open to abuse by more senior members. Something like a freshman dorm.

Freshman dorms invariably hear the same conversations year after year. But it's a process that holds considerable value to those who are allowed to experience it.

So then, create a subforum open only to members who joined in a given year. Past years won't matter, so start with 2009. Only members who joined in 2009 may post in the subforum. Nobody else, with exception to madmins (and maybe a few other, special designates), may post there. Mostly in an effort to keep the old-hats from shitting all over new members.

Then in 2010, close and lock the 2009 subforum and create a new one for that year's noobs. And let it be a place where noobs can talk about all the same old shit. Prove God and the like. The subforum will also serve as encapsulated reminder they can look back at to see just how noobley they were.

One reason for the subforum is to provide a safe area for noobs to explore ideas. Most people finding this forum for the first time have never interacted with so many INTPs before. Some have never knowingly met another INTP. Even familiar topics take new lives in INTPc. So let them adjust with skin in the game.

Some people are more self-confident than others and the risk of ridicule around here is ever-present. Perhaps a little help in building up the new blood wouldn't be out of line.

Maybe the subforum could be stocked with some warm-up threads or something. Get their opinions on certain things. Offer up the most tired, rehashed thread topics and let the noobs run wild.

I'm sure this is long enough already, so I'll open it up for feedback.
Thoughts?

[Etherealsage]

I see a problem in locking 09 in January, due to the new December recruits. Other than that, fine idea.

[CheeZ]

Maybe go even further and make it mandatory for the first 10 posts with an optional mod-granted early release.

EDIT: I withdraw this suggestion

[melancholeric]

Hmh, I can see how that'd lead to n00bs only talking to each other and that could create some cliques between them, and this is exactly what this place needs: more cliques. And I'm not sure if I'm joking.

And what about sock puppets?

[Etherealsage]

Maybe go even further and make it mandatory for the first 10 posts with an optional mod-granted early release.
Meh, this I disagree with 'cause I started posting right away, not even an intro thread, and it worked well for me.

[SensEye]

At one point we had a class of '04, '05, '06' etc. which would serve the same purpose I suppose, the current year always being the noob year.

However, I just looked and these sub-fora no longer seem to exist. It's possible the madmins explained the why's and where'fors at the time of deletion, but since I just now noticed they are gone, obviously I missed it.

One might conclude that whatever reasoning was behind the demise of the yearly forums might apply to your suggestion as well, so I wouldn't be shocked if it falls on deaf ears.

[CheeZ]

Meh, this I disagree with 'cause I started posting right away, not even an intro thread, and it worked well for me.

Not everybody is immediately comfortable.


At one point we had a class of '04, '05, '06' etc. which would serve the same purpose I suppose, the current year always being the noob year.

However, I just looked and these sub-fora no longer seem to exist. It's possible the madmins explained the why's and where'fors at the time of deletion, but since I just now noticed they are gone, obviously I missed it.

One might conclude that whatever reasoning was behind the demise of the yearly forums might apply to your suggestion as well, so I wouldn't be shocked if it falls on deaf ears.

There's a difference. The previous incarnation allowed members of '04 to post in the '04 subforum and all subsequent years. '05 members were excluded from '04 but could post in all newer subforums, and so on.

[OrionzRevenge]

There's a difference. The previous incarnation allowed members of '04 to post in the '04 subforum and all subsequent years. '05 members were excluded from '04 but could post in all newer subforums, and so on.

^^^That was my take on it as well.

I think it is a good idea... in fact I have said as much in Ellipsis' Thread
http://forums.intpcentral.com/showpost.php?p=1052391&postcount=41

...
Ok, so I want to throw another idea out there and see how fast it returns to slap me in the face.

We have exclusion zone Forums for The Class ##.
If the software will allow... How 'bout a Forum limited to newbies as per post???

Someplace where they are less likely to be told there threads are redundant or their post are silly.

Its almost a universal SOP in IRL for an organization to provide the under-class with a means to gel as a peer group. It promotes that sense of belonging that is hard to come by otherwise.

I even had a Name in mind I used in the Fake Mayflow Trial Reports as an organization name:

Radio Free n00bia

[CheeZ]

Hmm. Maybe a poll would be appropriate.

EDIT: Apparently I can no longer make one.

[Etherealsage]

Not everybody is immediately comfortable.
I simply believe they should be given the choice to post where they please.

[digesthisickness]

I simply believe they should be given the choice to post where they please.

i missed the part where he suggested they be sequestered.

[CheeZ]

^^^That was my take on it as well.

I think it is a good idea... in fact I have said as much in Ellipsis' Thread
http://forums.intpcentral.com/showpost.php?p=1052391&postcount=41

oK
Thanks MacG,
Also, I enjoyed reading of your Pro-Newbie motivations as per the Blog Restrictions debate.

Ok, so I want to throw another idea out there and see how fast it returns to slap me in the face.

We have exclusion zone Forums for The Class ##.
If the software will allow... How 'bout a Forum limited to newbies as per post???

Someplace where they are less likely to be told there threads are redundant or their post are silly.

Its almost a universal SOP in IRL for an organization to provide the under-class with a means to gel as a peer group. It promotes that sense of belonging that is hard to come by otherwise.



I even had a Name in mind I used in the Fake Mayflow Trial Reports as an organization name:

Radio Free n00bia

It seems the idea is percolating in more than one subconscious.

[CheeZ]

i missed the part where he suggested they be sequestered.


Maybe go even further and make it mandatory for the first 10 posts with an optional mod-granted early release.

It came later. This idea would also serve as a bit of quality control and an opportunity for noobs to get some positive feedback and encouragement or suggestions on how to unfuck themselves.

[digesthisickness]

It came later. This idea would also serve as a bit of quality control and an opportunity for noobs to get some positive feedback and encouragement or suggestions on how to unfuck themselves.

ah, i see.

personally, i'd rather them have the choice.

[Oso Mocoso]

It came later. This idea would also serve as a bit of quality control and an opportunity for noobs to get some positive feedback and encouragement or suggestions on how to unfuck themselves.

Nah, leave the newbs free-range. They're happier that way.

[digesthisickness]

indeed. it's more 'honest'.

[CheeZ]

Ok, I'll withdraw that part of the suggestion. What are your thoughts on the rest of the idea?

[digesthisickness]

seems like a fine enough idea. can't really see how it would hurt anything.

let those who love them help them, and those that don't love them/don't care get a possible relief.

[CheeZ]

Hmh, I can see how that'd lead to n00bs only talking to each other and that could create some cliques between them, and this is exactly what this place needs: more cliques. And I'm not sure if I'm joking.

And what about sock puppets?

I think there's something valuable to be gained from camaraderie. A support network could be useful. Will it turn into cliques? Maybe. The potential for people to do stupid shit is always present.

Make a sock puppet to talk about god in the noob subforum with noobs? I suppose it's possible, but even if it happened, what's the harm?

[edge walker]

I see a problem in locking 09 in January, due to the new December recruits. Other than that, fine idea.
If the permissions were set so that only '09ers could ever post in the '09 newbie forum, then that problem is easy to solve by simply not locking the forum until eg. April '10.

[carbon cold]

Don't we have enough reasons for people to divide themselves?

Divide to conquer.

I'll be indifferent about it. More segregation doesn't seem like the direction this forum wants to go in - it could very well be the direction it needs to, however. Try your luck.

[melancholeric]

I think there's something valuable to be gained from camaraderie. A support network could be useful. Will it turn into cliques? Maybe. The potential for people to do stupid shit is always present.

Make a sock puppet to talk about god in the noob subforum with noobs? I suppose it's possible, but even if it happened, what's the harm?

I think clique wasn't exactly the right word. More "circle of friends" or something. Or support network. And I personally think they have always been an inherent aspect of this site and actually somewhat necessary. But obviously some people don't see it that way (see the n00bs and trolls thread, there was some discussion about it).

[CheeZ]

Don't we have enough reasons for people to divide themselves?

Divide to conquer.

I'll be indifferent about it. More segregation doesn't seem like the direction this forum wants to go in - it could very well be the direction it needs to, however. Try your luck.

The idea isn't one of a segregated area so much as a protected noob habitat. A place for them to get used to being here before threads like this (http://forums.intpcentral.com/showthread.php?t=36078) happen.

[Rhu]

Can we call it "The Kiddie Pool" and describe it as smelling like pee?

[Etherealsage]

The idea isn't one of a segregated area so much as a protected noob habitat. A place for them to get used to being here before threads like this (http://forums.intpcentral.com/showthread.php?t=36078) happen.
I was wondering if anyone else had noticed.

[carbon cold]

The idea isn't one of a segregated area so much as a protected noob habitat. A place for them to get used to being here before threads like this (http://forums.intpcentral.com/showthread.php?t=36078) happen.

First -

I understand it isn't the intent to segregate but more exclusive cuts will do so indirectly.

Second -

I don't really understand the strange vein of optimism here: every single person who falls within our limited scope of accepted letter groups should find a home here!

Why? It doesn't work in any other situation. I read you stand a five percent chance of being born in the United States - despite being one of the exclusive I still think most Americans should burn alive, preferably at a great distance so I can be spared all possible moments of interaction. I found no sentimental home here. Either way, whatever. I hope you don't mind I'm going to use this thread to address a few things.

A lot of newbie discussion here. I probably am a particularly heavy contributor to the problem in some of the views and I'm not sorry in the slightest. The majority of newbies that catch my attention are welcomed politely or even by gods, in a friendly fashion. In fact, that's looked to be true for everyone else here, too.

It makes me giggle a bit. We let them die as martyrs, that's the falling of our regime. 1984 infected my brain too much.

What is really the problem? So some people who hang out at TypoC don't like us. Oh well. Fuck them. I'm not really inclined to TypoC so I do myself an easy favor and don't go there.

"I wouldn't have stayed if I caught what the current newbies do."

Yes, you're absolutely right, and had you behaved as the current newbies do, no one would have wanted you to do so.

Do we let out a few good ones? Yah, it's pretty likely. It's not an organized process here, there is no real collective systematic elimination. Groups only form from the smell of blood - otherwise, they have no concern in the matter prior.

I guess, probably know, that my view is largely biased by pessimism and misanthropy. I don't believe people are all that fucking grand by the batches but I am aware that it is a reflection of my subjective experiences and opinions. I could have just ran into a bad bunch or maybe I've been looking at things all the wrong way. I'm not sorry about this either. I'm perfectly fine finding ninety-eight percent of the population inane even if you aren't fine with me doing it. Thing is, I don't seem to be especially unique for that here.

Fuck what it should be. I should love life and people, but no. I should welcome every soul with open arms with no preconceived notions, but no. They don't work. Filters exist because they do. Should everyone behave exactly as the archetype INTP upon joining or be trashed? No, but if they did behave that way, being trashed wouldn't be a problem. People should be allowed to be who they are, always, INTP, ESFP, whatever. Be you.

And you aren't going to like everyone.

People really should be less judgmental of corruption.

[nonperson]

That's an awfully long post for you Carbon, are you well?

[carbon cold]

That's an awfully long post for you Carbon, are you well?

It's not, and no, I'm probably not. Is this length better?

Oh, to anonymous commenter: .. asking me questions when I don't really have a thread to put them in is kind of difficult.

As for the why:

Because it has to exist for any comparative measurement to be made for the "pure". It serves purpose.

[nonperson]

It's not, and no, I'm probably not. Is this length better?

Yes. Variations in expected norms worry me.

[SensEye]

There's a difference. The previous incarnation allowed members of '04 to post in the '04 subforum and all subsequent years. '05 members were excluded from '04 but could post in all newer subforums, and so on.You're right, I forgot about that. It's a bit of moot point however since those forums are no among the living.

I think I'd prefer to leave the noobs free range. Crevice is getting beat up on his thread mainly because he isn't making much sense. That should be a punishable offence be you noob or old fart.

[A Schnitzel]

This seems like a useless idea. People will get along or they won't.
I know that if I just joined the forum and saw a subforum like that, I would ignore it. People join a forum largely for its particular personalities, the regular members who give a forum its flavour. What is being discussed is largely secondary. For example, when noobs create intro threads, they want responses from established members so as to feel accepted by the community. Responses from other people with 0 posts wouldn't make a person feel very much more welcome.

[Etherealsage]

People join a forum largely for its particular personalities, the regular members who give a forum its flavour. What is being discussed is largely secondary.
I'm here solely for discussion (usually lurking now), because I don't get the opportunity to talk about these types of subjects in regular life for one reason or another, and who is here is barely a concern so long as discussion is decent (if someone wants to be a friend, they can drop me a pm or offer their IM, otherwise, it doesn't matter at all).

[CheeZ]

This seems like a useless idea. People will get along or they won't.
I know that if I just joined the forum and saw a subforum like that, I would ignore it. People join a forum largely for its particular personalities, the regular members who give a forum its flavour. What is being discussed is largely secondary. For example, when noobs create intro threads, they want responses from established members so as to feel accepted by the community. Responses from other people with 0 posts wouldn't make a person feel very much more welcome.

I was exactly the opposite. I joined this forum because of the ideas being discussed. The people discussing them made no difference to me.

While I think this idea has the ancillary benefit of offering some protection, it has a secondary purpose. That is to provide a place for noob topics to be discussed. People complain all the time about "another god thread." If there was a place for these conversations to take place, noobs could debate their eyes out and not bother anybody who wasn't specifically looking.

[carbon cold]

Without [corruption], good would simply be classified as normal, and anything abnormal would simply have inherently negative connotations.

I have to admit that before this moment I had not realized how ingrained and assumed obvious my holding that the bold is already true. All things normal are good things. The abnormal are bad, burned at the stake. The unknown is the frightening shadow.

Connotations cease to exist without counterexamples. Nothing is good when nothing is bad, nothing is negative when nothing is positive. Sentiment is measured in terms of preference and ordinal payoffs. The proverbial yin and yang, bare aside a conceptual form.

[Hustler]

I don't like this idea at all, because fuck n00bs. I like the idea of a n00b subforum if said subforum were used like a gladiatorial arena, where the n00bs battled each other until one emerged as worthy of joining the rest of the forum.

[carbon cold]

The problem with classifying it that way now is that corruption is normal. Anyway, the connotation would exist because good would be normal and normal would be good, anything counter would serve as its own counterexample. Not enough space, damn.

Ah. I see our problem. When I'm talking about corruption and good, I'm talking about them as I see them: entirely fancy to standardization which can change at any given moment.

The corruption is the reason why the society fails to reach its utopia and is the galvanizing point, but it's only seen as corruption (for instance, hedonism has been glorified on both sides) from the basis of normal/good and abnormal/bad.

I wouldn't disagree that corruption is normal, at all, actually, but I'd argue that the notion/standard used (the concept held by majority) continue to incorporate the conformist good idea. It's not normal to do this behavior, therefor it is bad. People stay in love with ideas from the past longer than they do each other.

I don't have much ground here, however. It's based on my limited observations and inferences, which as I've said, can be easily fraud, so I'd rather not argue it.

Must run off to the movies now~ person, this isn't really related to thread and continued replying here (as I lack somewhere else) is just OT stuff. If you want to continue, you'll have to PM me. Otherwise, it's been fun. Ta-ta.

[Delilah]

I don't like this idea at all, because fuck n00bs. I like the idea of a n00b subforum if said subforum were used like a gladiatorial arena, where the n00bs battled each other until one emerged as worthy of joining the rest of the forum.

I vote for this option.

[nonperson]

I don't like this idea at all, because fuck n00bs. I like the idea of a n00b subforum if said subforum were used like a gladiatorial arena, where the n00bs battled each other until one emerged as worthy of joining the rest of the forum.

Yes. And I think anybody with over 6,000 posts should submit to Carrousel.

http://www.transparencynow.com/Logan/kelfront.jpg

[lpethe]

I was exactly the opposite. I joined this forum because of the ideas being discussed. The people discussing them made no difference to me.

While I think this idea has the ancillary benefit of offering some protection, it has a secondary purpose. That is to provide a place for noob topics to be discussed. People complain all the time about "another god thread." If there was a place for these conversations to take place, noobs could debate their eyes out and not bother anybody who wasn't specifically looking.


I think this is significant. It can be overwhelming or tedious to read through 20 pages of a thread often spanning years just to get caught up on what has already been said on a subject. Then if you did have something to add, you would be resurrecting a dead topic. Start your own thread and you get redirected to the old one. Obviously the conversation was interesting at one point, but they weren't here for that so can't contribute ever. Even if what they had to say would have been interesting back then. It's as if all the popular topics have been explored by established members so are off limits to new members. What does that leave to discuss?

[Ghost-Girl]

Can we call it "The Kiddie Pool" and describe it as smelling like pee?
Is this your only criteria for letting it happen?

For the record, I don't really like the idea. It seems like division where it's not needed.

[Rhu]

Is this your only criteria for letting it happen?
Bribery and other methods of persuasion may also be acceptable. Like if somehow this forum could catch every thread arguing the existence or nonexistence of god or gods? I'd create the forum and throw together the permissions at once.

[CheeZ]

Like if somehow this forum could catch every thread arguing the existence or nonexistence of god or gods? I'd create the forum and throw together the permissions at once.

What's preventing this?

[nonperson]

What's preventing this?

It's an east coast control freak thing. Some warm milk and his med's and he will forget all about it........

[Rhu]

What's preventing this?
A locked subforum called "Oh, God." would be more amusing, I think.

[Ghost-Girl]

Bribery and other methods of persuasion may also be acceptable. Like if somehow this forum could catch every thread arguing the existence or nonexistence of god or gods? I'd create the forum and throw together the permissions at once.
Can't we just throw them into purgatory? Why do we need another crap heap?


A locked subforum called "Oh, God." would be more amusing, I think.
Actually, I wouldn't mind something like that as a purgatory subforum.

[CheeZ]

It's an east coast control freak thing. Some warm milk and his med's and he will forget all about it........

I mean what's preventing the thing from catching every thread arguing the existence or nonexistence of god or gods?

[Oso Mocoso]

I like the idea of a n00b subforum if said subforum were used like a gladiatorial arena, where the n00bs battled each other until one emerged as worthy of joining the rest of the forum.

I like this idea, but I think the arena should be large and the newbs should be allowed to craft improvised armor and weapons, and they can travel in Mad Max style vehicles.

[nonperson]

I mean what's preventing the thing from catching every thread arguing the existence or nonexistence of god or gods?

Nothing really. But I have a sneaking suspicion that he has other things to do than sift through threads on an internet forum. Work, eat, defecate etc. etc. etc. etc. :grin:

[nonperson]

I like this idea, but I think the arena should be large and the newbs should be allowed to craft improvised armor and weapons, and they can travel in Mad Max style vehicles.

Could we charge them? From what I have seen WoW is a bit tame. Surely we could come up with a better alternative? What we need are bomb platforms in geostationary orbit. Yes an element of real risk is what is needed......

[CheeZ]

Nothing really. But I have a sneaking suspicion that he has other things to do than sift through threads on an internet forum. Work, eat, defecate etc. etc. etc. etc. :grin:

All the threads are already read by a mod, right? So this is a place to put the noob threads that aren't quite shitty enough for purgatory.

[52 Pick-up]

I wouldn't mind posting in a noob sub-forum. It would be nice to post somewhere to safely get a feel for the board.

[stigmatica]

I was formulating a big fancy opinion on this as I read through the entire thread, until I got to the cool gladiator battle, one man leaves victorious posts. Sounds to me pretty much like the current system, only the noob is battling the veterans instead! Not really a fair fight as it is, I think.

Seriously though, there are a lot of initial repetitive topics that immediately get eaten up by noobs, even the good ones. Besides getting lost in the forest, wouldn't hurt to make an attempt to clean that up, but still give noobs a chance to get those topics off their chest.

[carbon cold]

I wouldn't mind posting in a noob sub-forum. It would be nice to post somewhere to safely get a feel for the board.

Fair enough but how is a newbie and specials only forum at all going to give you a better feel? That's like parents raising their kids with morality. The kid steps into the real world and gets fucked.

[digesthisickness]

Fair enough but how is a newbie and specials only forum at all going to give you a better feel? That's like parents raising their kids with morality. The kid steps into the real world and gets fucked.

jesus, carbon, just stay out of the F-ucking F-orum!

[carbon cold]

jesus, carbon, just stay out of the F-ucking F-orum!

Yeah, well, you just stay on your fucking corner!

[digesthisickness]

Yeah, well, you just stay on your fucking corner!

actually, you can have all the corners.

[Pulp]

If anything needs warming up to it’s the members not the topics… we’re going to be hard done by doing it from the coat racks.

I figure, if you want to feel the place up without being lost underfoot, just keep your god damn mouth shut. Are we not free to lurk?

As for those of us who can’t…

:unsure:

[Oso Mocoso]

If anything needs warming up to it’s the members not the topics… we’re going to be hard done by doing it from the coat racks.

I figure, if you want to feel the place up without being lost underfoot, just keep your god damn mouth shut. Are we not free to lurk?

As for those of us who can’t…

:unsure:

Yeah, actually I had an opinion about that once.

http://forums.intpcentral.com/showthread.php?t=29189

I used to link that thread in my signature, for newbs to find it. I became ambivalent after a while. Anyway, that thread was an effort to provide some members who'd volunteer to be warmer to the newbs. What think you, newb?

[nullPointerException]

0m6 7h15 15 7h3 8357 1d34 3v3r !!!!!!

[ALittleGirl]

http://forums.intpcentral.com/showthread.php?t=29189

Is this still in action?


Also, I still don't understand exactly what will be discussed in this subforum... (passé threads and personal philosophies?)

[Shadowlogical]

We know of the shy, socially inept INTP.. yes. But perhaps there is an even shyer, more socially vulnerable sub type of INTP that dare to bare themselves to no one but their like brethren and perhaps imaginary friend!
^_^ hah ok, dick joke.

But seriously... subtypes... definitely a valid idea. Wanna start a thread on that.:mellow:

[stuck]

The Thunderdome idea is at least kind of funny.

How about using Thunderdome as a way of accelerating one's status here? Maybe all of the senior members should be obligated to post in the "victory thread."

Then have a dual entry path for people who are scared. If you fail at thunderdome, you default to the kiddie pool and are fucking scarred for life.

All in all, the closer we get to me acting out an alternate version of middle school would be the better.

[Fingers]

Have a noob section and we should vote to promote, and factor in post count.

[Ferrus]

Yes. And I think anybody with over 6,000 posts should submit to Carrousel.
Tell me more...

[ciphersort]

Sink or swim. I prefer things the way they are. I am also against thumbs up thumbs down systems... star ratings... and + or - as they relate to opinions of threads and posts. The Classics section is good - it isn't solely ratings based.

If we want more n00bs here then advertising the forum is the way to go.

[shadow1986]

my INTP IRC doesn't work...


my socket is broken...

[Random2422]

I'm a noob here but that doesnt mean i'm a noob to life. And you're worried about us taking "abuse". My point: I can take your verbal "abuse". I might even enjoy it as further proof of how much people suck. Who knows. It's not like forum members can punch me in the face or anything - so who cares.

[80 page GIANT]

Here's one n00b's opinion-

I like being a free-range chicken, that way I can join in on threads that interest me. If I were limited to just talking to the other n00bs here, the quantity of possible threads to contribute to would be far less, and the quality of the threads would most likely suffer as well (nothing against the other n00bs, just acknowledging that more members allows for more diversity). It would make for a less satisfying experience overall, and fewer n00bs would stick around.

I got some snarky comments immediately in my intro thread - I got a little miffed at first, but instead of getting indignant, I decided to play along. Now those snarky commenters are my BFFs here at the forum!

However, if we n00bs were to start having cyber death-matches, I'd definitely be up for that. (Got my jousting pole sharpened and tipped with poison, and my chainsaw oiled up).

[Technical]

This OP idea's horrendously bad...And just the kind of thing which could catch on around here! I'm surprised it hasn't yet. Was this before or after the Old Farts subforum was started?

[lVly5tery]

The Thunderdome idea is at least kind of funny.

How about using Thunderdome as a way of accelerating one's status here? Maybe all of the senior members should be obligated to post in the "victory thread."

Then have a dual entry path for people who are scared. If you fail at thunderdome, you default to the kiddie pool and are fucking scarred for life.

All in all, the closer we get to me acting out an alternate version of middle school would be the better.

Yes, tell me more. What would such a test look like? Who doesn't want to run the gauntlet?