Coup d'etat in Honduras

[Madrigal]

I'm not used to my home country being on the news, and now it is, unfortunately. To sum up, a coup removed Honduran president, Zelaya, from power (kidnapping him at gunpoint in his home), and appointed his political rival to take his place.

This happened after the Army, the Congress, the Supreme Court and the Church opposed his non-binding consultation on whether to include a referendum in this year's elections determnining the creation of a Constituent Assembly to discuss changes to the Constitution.

The Catch-22 excuse is that the Constitution does not allow for this type of consultation. *rolls eyes*

This coup is comparable to the attempted coup against Chavez in 2002. Despite the fact that one of Zelaya's propsed reforms was the possibility of re-election, and the "excuse" used is that the President ignored a Supreme Court decision, the coup is clearly reactionary. Zelaya has been critisized by the establishment for being part of the generation of Latin American presidents with a more left-wing rhetoric such as Chavez and Evo. He was one of the presidents supporting the end of restrictions on Cuba in the Organization of American States last month.

What does it mean for democracy in the region when a president attacked by the establishment is ousted when attempting to promote constitutional reform?




Honduran president ousted in coup; replacement is named
(Los Angeles Times)

The head of the Honduran Congress, a foe of President Manuel Zelaya, is named acting president. Global outcry against the coup is growing.
By Tracy Wilkinson and Alex Renderos

7:16 PM PDT, June 28, 2009

Reporting from Mexico City and San Salvador — In a throwback to Latin America's unstable past, the Honduran army ousted President Manuel Zelaya on Sunday, sending the leftist leader into exile as a hastily convened Congress' members replaced him with their speaker, one of Zelaya's fiercest enemies.

The coup was a brazen blow to the region's seemingly solid move to democratic rule, the first such military action in Central America in 16 years. It followed weeks of confrontation between Zelaya and conservative forces in Honduras that came to a head over possible changes to the constitution. Zelaya was seized from his home, still in his pajamas, hours ahead of a non-binding national vote on the reforms, including one that could allow presidential re-election in Honduras.

"This has been a brutal kidnapping," Zelaya said later Sunday in a news conference at the airport in the Costa Rican capital of San Jose.

He described how masked soldiers burst into his home before dawn, firing warning shots, shouting and pointing a gun to his chest. He was hauled away to a Honduran Air Force jet, he said, and flown to Costa Rica.

Zelaya declared that he remained the president of Honduras and vowed to finish out the last six months of his term.

"They have betrayed our country," Zelaya said of the coup-plotters. "They have betrayed democracy."

The military action came hours ahead of a referendum vote in which Zelaya was hoping to gauge public opinion on proposed changes to the constitution, including one that would end presidential term limits.

Army leaders, as well as the Congress, the Supreme Court and election officials had opposed the vote, calling it illegal. In response, Zelaya last week fired the nation's top military commander and then ignored a Supreme Court order to reinstate him.

Zelaya's opponents suspected he was seeking to amend the constitution to stay in power, as other Latin American leaders have done. But Zelaya, prone to fiery rhetoric, has said publicly he was not interested in re-election.

Condemnation of the coup from world leaders -- from President Obama to Venezuela's Hugo Chavez -- was swift.

Obama said he was "deeply concerned" by the developments and he called on "all political and social actors in Honduras to respect democratic norms [and] the rule of law."

"Any existing tensions and disputes must be resolved peacefully through dialogue free from any outside interference," he said.

Chavez, a close Zelaya ally, said the coup was "a troglodyte act of the 19th century."

The coup left Honduras, one of the region's poorest countries, awash in tense intrigue. As Zelaya was in Costa Rica lashing out at his foes, an official at the Honduran Congress read out a purported resignation letter from the president. Asked about it in Costa Rica, Zelaya said it was "completely false" and evidence of a "broader conspiracy" against him.

Then the Congress voted to replace Zelaya for actions that it said had "polarized" the nation. The vote was unanimous, but it wasn't clear how many legislators were in attendance. Some waved copies of the constitution and chanted "Long live Honduras!"

The Congress swore in as new president Roberto Micheletti, who was the head of the law-making body and a bitter foe of Zelaya.

As news of the coup spread, angry Zelaya supporters took to the streets of the capital, Tegucigalpa. "Mel! Mel! Don't go!" they shouted, using the nickname of the president. But large protests did not materialize. Troops moved through the city and surrounded the presidential palace and other government buildings. Some radio and television stations were knocked off the air and electricity was cut in some areas.

Foreign Minister Patricia Rodas, speaking to a television network, called on the public to "fight in the streets for the president to return to Honduras." "We will resist until he returns," she said.

Later, Venezuela claimed that Rodas, along with its ambassador and those of Cuba and Nicaragua were briefly detained by Honduran troops. The report could not be independently verified.

U.S. officials had been bracing for upheaval in Honduras. On Friday, the State Department expressed concern over "the breakdown in the political dialogue among Honduran politicians" over the vote on constitutional reform.

But inside Honduran institutions, there was support for Zelaya's removal. Sunday evening, after being sworn in, Micheletti gave a speech in which he said his rise to power was "completely legal." Zelaya's removal will allow divisive wounds to heal, he said. The army was following orders from the Supreme Court, he added, to cheers from his supporters.

The events Sunday seemed to have come out of a past many thought long dead. Latin America suffered army takeovers for decades, into the '60s and '70s, but had since moved into an increasingly stable period of civilian democratic rule. In Honduras, the army overthrew elected presidents in 1963 and 1972 and held on to power until 1981.

"This coup is regrettable, not just for Honduran democracy but for Central America and the entire hemisphere," said Costa Rican President Oscar Arias, who was awarded a Nobel prize for efforts to bring peace to the region. He spoke alongside Zelaya in a show of support.

"We thought Central American democracy had consolidated sufficiently to avoid this," Arias said. "It is sad to see some civilians applaud a coup just because they disagree with policies. This has shown us that democratic institutions in Central America are still fragile . . . vulnerable."

The previous military coups often had U.S. backing or blessing. Perhaps recalling that history, Zelaya on Sunday speculated that the U.S. government might have had a hand in his demise. "If the United States is not behind this coup, then the plotters won't last 48 hours in power," he said.

U.S. officials denied involvement.

Honduras was for years a faithful ally to the United States. In the 1980s, Honduras lent its territory to U.S. and U.S.-backed forces fighting to overthrow the Sandinista government in neighboring Nicaragua. But as U.S. interest in the region waned after the Cold War and crises elsewhere demanded attention, Honduras joined many other Latin American countries that moved further to the left and away from Washington's sphere of influence.

Zelaya is one of a new crop of leftist presidents, such as Chavez and Ecuador's Rafael Correa. Zelaya led efforts to get the Organization of American States to lift restrictions on Cuba during the group's summit in Honduras last month.

The coup was the first in Central America since the Guatemala army in 1993 forced President Jorge Serrano to resign after he dissolved Congress and attempted to suspend the constitution.

[Zephyrus055]

The CIA did it. It's the first step of their plan to bring SA back under the grips of the Empire.

Actually, the US is unprepared to concede any further power to China. It was an attempt to maintain the balance of power most likely.

[Madrigal]

I'm going to a protest in front of the Honduran embassy tomorrow.

[Zephyrus055]

I'm going to a protest in front of the Honduran embassy tomorrow.

It won't change anything.

[Anonymous]

Most important part of the article to me:


The military action came hours ahead of a referendum vote in which Zelaya was hoping to gauge public opinion on proposed changes to the constitution, including one that would end presidential term limits.

And it's all that I need to know to be against the coup. There's not much someone can say to make that seem fair.

Madrigal, from what I could pick up with Google translator, a number of Latin Americans on Twitter seem to be talking about the media, specifically their responsibility and some sort of media war. Any idea of what that's about?

Edit: Never mind, I think I get it.

[stuck]

same old shit down there:/

[Madrigal]

It won't change anything.
Governments and people in every country have to know that they can't recognize the new president's legitimacy. You know this is not just about "solidarity" it's also logical that if something like this can be allowed in one Latin American country, they'll be emboldened to oust more presidents in the region. So, yeah, a protest in front of the embassy, wherever you are, is the very least you can do to draw media attention to the new government's illegitimacy. The international community has to reject this new government, we will see what each leader says about it.


Madrigal, from what I could pick up with Google translator, a number of Latin Americans on Twitter seem to be talking about the media, specifically their responsibility and some sort of media war. Any idea of what that's about?

Edit: Never mind, I think I get it.

I'm not very informed yet, I'm just guessing the media supporting the ousted president has been shut down while the ones backing the coup are justifying it. Also, they are probably broadcasting Zelaya's false resignation letter as well. There must be a lot of misinformation in Honduras right now. They say the protests have not been widespread yet. I'm guessing media manipulation about a false resignation, among other lies, led to some demobilization. I really hope they take to the streets and topple this guy. And I'm also pretty sure CNN won't be filming agonizing young ladies in the streets if it happens.

[HoneyCyclical]

It won't change anything.

Not the point.

[Hustler]

There's a country somewhere called Honduras? I guess I've learned something today.

[Madrigal]

There's a country somewhere called Honduras? I guess I've learned something today.

I can't believe I saw Hustler posted here and thought, "So cool, Hustler is gonna tell us more about what's happening in Honduras."


<_<

[Madrigal]

More news:

Apparently there has been a general strike in Honduras in over 35 Honduran cities.

The army is arresting pro-Zelaya congressmen and members of govt. There is one member of govt that is said to have been kidnapped.

The army has taken control of the media: public media has been shut down. Private media is militarized.

Although information is hard to obtain, it is said that there are already hundreds of people arrested, and being considered "missing/disappeared".

[Etherealsage]

Believe it or not, I've been following this with idle interest. The military also supposedly imposed a curfew after dark and declared martial law. In addition to tear gasing, they have been beating both armed (with rocks) protestors and unarmed protestors alike. Bad enough to have some going to the hospital to treat injuries (not usually enough for an overnight stay). No intentional killings have been reported as of yet that I've read. (Edit: Actually, that's not true. One of the senators being arrested was killed, supposedly for resisting arrest. So 1 intentional killing.)

On a U.S. front, Obama has spoken against the coup, but apparently has made no statement s?aying whether we will or will not get involved. I assume he's not going to (though personally, he probably should considering that we've had diplomatic ties and that it's in our own backyard; we don't need any potential future opposition from our neighbors).

[Madrigal]

Believe it or not, I've been following this with idle interest. The military also supposedly imposed a curfew after dark and declared martial law. In addition to tear gasing, they have been beating both armed (with rocks) protestors and unarmed protestors alike. Bad enough to have some going to the hospital to treat injuries (not usually enough for an overnight stay). No intentional killings have been reported as of yet that I've read.
Good info. I also read this on Indymedia. Really dunno where to find good information, just checking a bit of everything.

The unions and opposers of the govt are calling for road blockades and a concentration in front of the presidential palace (aside from the general strike).

I'm kind of getting the impression this won't last but it might be too early to say.


On a U.S. front, Obama has spoken against the coup, but apparently has made no statement s?aying whether we will or will not get involved. I assume he's not going to (though personally, he probably should considering that we've had diplomatic ties and that it's in our own backyard; we don't need any potential future opposition from our neighbors).
I think the US should limit itself to cutting off support for the govt... I should hope they don't get involved any further than that, and I don't think they will.

I've been watching some news videos about the situation and I see people punching military men as they walk by them, it gives me goosebumps.

I really hope there is a true insurrection that topples this government.

I went to the Honduran embassy tonight but forgot to take pictures. There are probably protests all over the world so I encourage everyone to go.

This woman has guts.

http://www.intpcentral.com/uploads/woman.jpg

[Limey]

I used to work with a Honduran called zelaya - he seemed like such a nice guy.

Y'all should have seen it coming, he was telling you he was a liar when he told you his name.

[Etherealsage]

I think the US should limit itself to cutting off support for the govt... I should hope they don't get involved any further than that, and I don't think they will.

I've been watching some news videos about the situation and I see people punching military men as they walk by them, it gives me goosebumps.

I really hope there is a true insurrection that topples this government.

I went to the Honduran embassy tonight but forgot to take pictures. There are probably protests all over the world so I encourage everyone to go.
Mmm. Well, it wouldn't be a bad thing to get involved if totalitarian rule consolidates. If the guy steps down after term or something, then it wouldn't be such a big deal.

But anyway, source (http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/world/la-fg-honduras-coup30-2009jun30,0,4319817.story?page=1).

[Anonymous]

The unions and opposers of the govt are calling for road blockades and a concentration in front of the presidential palace (aside from the general strike).

I'm kind of getting the impression this won't last but it might be too early to say.

Maybe not, but those are some very effective and provocative strategies when it comes to non-violent protest, so it should be interesting to see what happens. If the Honduran military strikes back violently, I can see things escalating into much more of a conflict.

[Madrigal]

Mmm. Well, it wouldn't be a bad thing to get involved if totalitarian rule consolidates. If the guy steps down after term or something, then it wouldn't be such a big deal.
US military involvement is always a bad thing because the US only gets involved to impose its own political and economic interests. As history has shown, it actually finances and helps to organize coups when a president isn't to their liking, such as its financing of the attempted coup against Chavez in 2002.

In this scenario, the only intelligent solution for the national bourgeoisie is to bring back Zelaya, whose timid reforms are more preferable to the possibility of a radical insurrection threatening to go further left. I'm sure the US will condemn this new government even more strongly if such a thing happens. But to go so far as military involvement? I highly doubt this, as it will necessarily be simply about bringing Zelaya back, which is what the people are demanding. And again, I hope not, since there would be a price to pay that would only further oppress Hondurans under US imperialism.

It is being said that Zelaya will attempt to return to Honduras on Thursday "no matter what".

[Etherealsage]

As history has shown, it actually finances and helps to organize coups when a president isn't to their liking, such as its financing of the attempted coup against Chavez in 2002.
This would probably be one of those times if things keep getting worse. (Edit: Or maybe I'm wrong and the government is involved. Who knows? It wouldn't be that surprising to me at this point.)


I hope not, since there would be a price to pay that would only further oppress Hondurans under US imperialism.
What? I highly doubt that the U.S. would make Honduras one of its territories.

[Madrigal]

This would probably be one of those times if things keep getting worse. (Edit: Or maybe I'm wrong and the government is involved. Who knows? It wouldn't be that surprising to me at this point.)
Well there is speculation about financial involvement.

What I'm wondering is what Zelaya will do if he returns. He's got the entire establishment against him. The only way to appease people and contain rebellion would be by bringing him back. But he can't return without later conducting some major purges. How can he rule with a congress that unanimously supported the coup, a military against him and a judicial system against him as well? None of these sectors have any legitimacy in the people's eyes (at least in the majority's) after this. Dismissing one military chief was what made this escalate in the first place, how can he dismiss anyone else without outside involvement of some sort?

I have no idea how the people and the establishment can be contained at the same time.


What? I highly doubt that the U.S. would make Honduras one of its territories.
I think we aren't speaking the same language. Honduras is an economically and politically oppressed country just like the rest of the continent south of the US.

[Etherealsage]

What I'm wondering is what Zelaya will do if he returns. He's got the entire establishment against him. The only way to appease people and contain rebellion would be by bringing him back. But he can't return without later conducting some major purges. How can he rule with a congress that unanimously supported the coup, a military against him and a judicial system against him as well? None of these sectors have any legitimacy in the people's eyes (at least in the majority's) after this. Dismissing one military chief was what made this escalate in the first place, how can he dismiss anyone else without outside involvement of some sort?

I have no idea how the people and the establishment can be contained at the same time.
Valid perception. Well, I assume that as long as the military isn't divided in opinion that the side it supports will ultimately rule. At least temporarily. The people are probably not armed or trained enough to take on their own military.


I think we aren't speaking the same language. Honduras is an economically and politically oppressed country just like the rest of the continent south of the US.
Ah. That's mostly the way of the world though, isn't it? /Jadedrealism

[edge walker]

That's mostly the way of the world though, isn't it? /Jadedrealism
Jamie Zawinski once said that you have only two options: you can either live under U.S. domestic policy or under U.S. foreign policy.

[Madrigal]

Ah. That's mostly the way of the world though, isn't it? /Jadedrealism

Well, it is for now. :-p

Just some stuff:

- The US financed and planned coups in Honduras which ended in the early 80s. The last important US intervention was in the 80s when Reagan trained and financed death squads to erradicate the "communist threat" in Honduras and the region.

- A lot of Honduras' income is dependent on the US and it receives financial support especially since the "dirty war", as aid for "promoting democracy" which is provided to parties and NGOs with US-friendly policies.

- The Pentagon has a military base in Honduras.

- Most of the Honduran army has been trained by the US.


I'm listening to a radio newscast from "somewhere in Honduras" that says parts of the army are rebelling against the coup, appareently two batallions.

[Etherealsage]

Well, it is for now. :-p

Just some stuff:

- The US financed and planned coups in Honduras which ended in the early 80s. The last important US intervention was in the 80s when Reagan trained and financed death squads to erradicate the "communist threat" in Honduras and the region.

- A lot of Honduras' income is dependent on the US and it receives financial support especially since the "dirty war", as aid for "promoting democracy" which is provided to parties and NGOs with US-friendly policies.

- The Pentagon has a military base in Honduras.

- Most of the Honduran army has been trained by the US.


I'm listening to a radio newscast from "somewhere in Honduras" that says parts of the army are rebelling against the coup, appareently two batallions.
Mmm, and the current president was looking to make consitutional changes, allbeit non-binding. Potentially taking them out from under our thumb, assuming your information is correct, of course.

[Madrigal]

Mmm, and the current president was looking to make consitutional changes, allbeit non-binding. Potentially taking them out from under our thumb, assuming your information is correct, of course.
I read some info, dunno how true it is, that the US ambassador in Honduras met with Zelaya's opposition last week to discuss the non-binding referendum. According to that report, the US ambassador suggested it be allowed to take place and they should "worry about actual constitutional reform later."

It is possible the establishment and the army grossly miscalculated the political support they would get for this coup, and that it was not actually encouraged by the US in a direct way despite the fact it finances the pro-coup sectors.

I don't think Zelaya was among the most concerning cases for the US in Latin America. In fact I've tried to find some information on "populist" policies he has enforced and I can't find any yet (I admit I haven't read all that much and never followed the Honduran situation much before). He is seen as a politician who progressively shifted towards a more populist rhetoric but was not always that way.

After clear US involvement in the attempt against Chavez, I'm looking for the smoking gun in this scenario but I can't find it yet. Maybe the army just dived into a pool without knowing there was no water in there. :-p I am sure that US opposition to the ALBA (bloc of supposed "bolivarian" states including Honduras and Venezuela) must have emboldened them and their allies, to say the very least.

[Madrigal]

[Argentine] President Cristina Fernandez will accompany Zelaya in his return to Honduras

President Cristina Fernández de Kirchner will integrate the covey that will accompany the deposed Honduran president, Manuel Zelaya, in his return to Tegucigalpa, official sources reported.

Zelaya's return to Honduras, after a coup d’état, is foreseen for the next Thursday.

The chief of the State accepted the invitation made yesterday evening by the holder of the OSA, José Miguel Insulza.

Zelaya, who said to trust in "God and in my Honduran people", made sure before the members of the Group of Rio that plans to return to Tegucigalpa to re-take office as "legitimate president", no matter the consequences.

Wow.

[C.J.Woolf]

Could this mean civil war? BTW, who is Zelaya's power base?

/me confesses ignorance.

[MacGuffin]

Where's the damn Contras when you need them?

http://amog.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/11/contra-300x262.jpg

[Madrigal]

Could this mean civil war? BTW, who is Zelaya's power base?

/me confesses ignorance.
I'm ignorant too, aside from the institutions I've already named, I dunno how much of society supports the new govt. Yesterday the govt called for a pro-coup mobilization and companies forced their employees to go under the threat of being fired if they didn't attend, but it is said participation was very low.

There was also a protest in Tegucigalpa before the presidential palace that was harshly repressed.

There are orders for the arrest of more than thirty leaders of social movements.

People are being recruited for the army by force in the countryside, when military service is not mandatory in Honduras and that kind of recruitment is illegal.

The trip of south american presidents to Honduras today was cancelled and postponed for three days, the de facto govt threatens to arrest Zelaya if he returns. The OAS is giving the govt three days, whatever that means (haven't read much yet today).

This news is a bit old and before the latest repression in Tegucigalpa and cancelling of Zelaya's trip:


On Behalf Of Hendrik Voss, SOA Watch
Sent: Tuesday, June 30, 2009 4:26 PM
Subject: Denounce the Human Rights Abuses in Honduras

The situation in Honduras turned violent when over 10,000 people gathered in the streets to protest the coup Monday evening. Using tear gas, high-powered water and guns (it is still not clear whether soldiers were armed with rubber bullets or otherwise) many people were wounded and there has been one confirmed death in the capital, Tegucigalpa.

In the capital, pro-coup marches are occurring, defended by the police and national guard. As of Tuesday morning, the resistance movement to the coup is gathering in Tegucigalpa, to determine how and where to take to the streets. Therefore, there is anticipation of violence today, as soldiers are expected to react violently today to protesters as they did yesterday.

Violence has also broken out outside of Tegucigalpa. In the interior of the country, especially in the state of Olancho, the military has been conducting home invasions in order to capture and detain youth. Many youth have fled to the mountains, and their whereabouts are unknown.

The military is violently disbursing pro-Zelaya marches, and many protesters are missing. The local media is refusing to air any comments about the violence and human rights abuses taking place in the country, insisting that nothing is amiss.

An international news crew from TeleSur was detained and beaten while broadcasting the oppression of protesters by the military.

Yesterday in a meeting of the Rio Group, President Zelaya reiterated that he is the only president of Honduras, and that he has not stepped down. He declared his plans to return to Honduras on Thursday, mostly likely accompanied by the Secretary-General of the Organization of American States (OAS), Jos&#195;&#169; Miguel Insulza. Argentine president Cristina Fernandez also plans to accompany Zelaya on Thursday.

The coup in Honduras has been unanimously condemned throughout the Western Hemisphere, and has also been condemned by the United Nations and European Union. Zelaya spoke on Tuesday in front of the United Nations.

Notably, two army battalions have refused orders from the coup government. They are the Fourth Infantry Battalion in the city of Tela and the Tenth Infantry Battalion in La Ceiba (the second largest city in Honduras), both located in the state of Atlantida.

The coup leaders include several well-known human rights abusers, such as the retired Captain Billy Fernando Joya Amendola, who was a member of the CIA-trained 3-16 batallion from 1984-91, one of the most notorious battalions noted for human rights abuses during that time.

Bertha Oliva, of COFADEH, calls the coup advisers a line-up of the "Galley of Terror".

Furthermore, two coup leaders, Air Force Commander General Luis Javier Prince Suazo and Army General Romeo Vasquez Velasquez, were trained at the School of the Americas (SOA, renamed the Western Hemisphere Institute for Security Cooperation), a US army school located in Fort Benning, GA, whose graduates have been linked to some of the largest human rights atrocities in Latin America's history.

COFADEH (Comit&#195;&#169; de Familiares de Detenidos y Desaparecidos en Honduras or the Honduran Committee of Families of the Disappeared or Detained), a leading Human Rights group in Honduras, has gone hospital to hospital attempting to document the cases of violence and human rights abuses. They are conducting this documentation work because the national Human Rights Commission, headed by Ramon Custodio and the Fiscal (Attorney General), Sandra Ponce, have thus far refused to document and denounce human rights abuses since the coup began Monday morning and are fully supporting the coup government.

One of the first moves of the army and de facto government was to cut electricity and telephone lines throughout most of the country. Later Monday two television channels were re-established, both of which maintained that Zelaya had voluntary resigned, the change of power was constitutionally legitimate and that the new President had the support of the majority of the Honduran people.

Through TeleSur, a transnational South American television news station, the public in South America has been able to see on the ground footage of protests in Honduras as well as streamed footage from the Honduran pro-coup news stations.

Hondurans within their country are much less informed than larger Latin America because the coup government has been able to stop TeleSur from broadcasting. Information is arriving to Honduran people about the whereabouts of President Manuel Zelaya and the vast international support he has by way of people from outside Honduras calling to cell phones of friends and family inside who are inside the country. The biggest issue now are human rights abuses inside the country.


Honduran coup leader a two-time SOA graduate
Published on National Catholic Reporter (http://ncronline.org), June 29, 2009, By Linda Cooper and James Hodge

The general who overthrew the democratically elected president of Honduras is a two-time graduate of the U.S. Army School of the Americas, an institution that has trained hundreds of coup leaders and human rights abusers in Latin America...

THIS IS WHAT U.S. "HELP" MEANS:

It seems like what the United States might be angling for in Honduras could be the "Haiti Option." In 1994 Bill Clinton worked to restore Haitian president Jean-Bertrand Aristide after he was deposed in a coup, but only on the condition that Aristide would support IMF and World Bank policies.


Last week, during a meeting with Chilean President Michelle Bachelet, a reporter asked Obama if he would apologize for America's role in the 1973 coup that brought Augusto Pinochet to power (and led to the torture of Bachelet and her father, who died as a result). Obama demurred and said that he was "interested in going forward, not looking backward."



Where's the damn Contras when you need them?


:P

[aphemix]

Madrigal, you are very good with information.

I hope your shit turns out okay.

[Madrigal]

Madrigal, you are very good with information.

I hope your shit turns out okay.

I'm just reading Indymedia Chiapas which seems to have become Indymedia Honduras. :)

If the coup doesn't fail it sets a very bad precedent in Latin America.

There was a mobilization to the embassy in California and NY... anyone that can go to a mobilization in their state should!! And post pics...

[Limey]

I hope the banana republic banana shipments are safe

[Madrigal]

I can't believe I actually thought the Presidents of Latin America would make it to Honduras today. *facepalm*

It doesn't look like there will be civil war. But if civil war actually broke out then I think the social movements of Latin America and the world should probably organize a solidarity network including financial help and weapons smuggling (minimum) for the resistance, and international brigades to support the Honduran people (maximum). / ultra

But I think we are far from that. :mellow:

I want to go to Honduras right now.

[Works]

I can't believe I actually thought the Presidents of Latin America would make it to Honduras today. *facepalm*

It doesn't look like there will be civil war. But if civil war actually broke out then I think the social movements of Latin America and the world should probably organize a solidarity network including financial help and weapons smuggling (minimum) for the resistance, and international brigades to support the Honduran people (maximum). / ultra

But I think we are far from that. :mellow:

I want to go to Honduras right now.


Not going to be happy until you die in a blaze of revolutionary glory?

[Madrigal]

Not going to be happy until you die in a blaze of revolutionary glory?

I'm actually serious. I have the Honduran and Canadian citizenships (and two others but nevermind about that).

But I don't have any money...






*CIA takes note*

[aphemix]

Not going to be happy until you die in a blaze of revolutionary glory?what the hell INTP wouldn't be enthused as fuck to help get the ball of dramatic and necessary action rolling when they already believe in it completely? A fragmented one, is my guess.

[floid]

I'm actually serious. I have the Honduran and Canadian citizenships (and two others but nevermind about that).

But I don't have any money...






*CIA takes note*

Do you have guns?

Revolutionaries with guns tend see a dramatic drop in their need for money and and a dramatic rise in the ability to acquire stuff on short notice with or without it.

[Madrigal]

Do you have guns?

Revolutionaries with guns tend see a dramatic drop in their need for money and and a dramatic rise in the ability to acquire stuff on short notice with or without it.

I wouldn't go there with a gun. :/ I would like to report from there, establish contacts and go to mobilizations.

And if I *really* wanted to go I could get the money.

[Works]

I'm actually serious. I have the Honduran and Canadian citizenships (and two others but nevermind about that).

But I don't have any money...



*CIA takes note*


I wouldn't go there with a gun. :/ I would like to report from there, establish contacts and go to mobilizations.

And if I *really* wanted to go I could get the money.

Well, an army runs on its stomach, so maybe you could get into the kitchen and really help the cause.




::needs the CIA to hide me::

[Madrigal]

Well, an army runs on its stomach, so maybe you could get into the kitchen and really help the cause.




::needs the CIA to hide me::

Sexist. :p

I'm going to ask my twin sister tonight if she wants to go to Honduras with me.

[floid]

Sexist. :p

I'm going to ask my twin sister tonight if she wants to go to Honduras with me.

When the two of you get through there move a little further north where things are in even more dire need of fixing (and probably the root cause of the existence of your cause in Honduras).

[Madrigal]

When the two of you get through there move a little further north where things are in even more dire need of fixing (and probably the root cause of the existence of your cause in Honduras).

I just called my mom and asked her what she thought. She started laughing. :mellow: She said "we'll talk about it later, I have to go," and kept laughing.

Yeah maybe I will go to the US someday.

[Anonymous]

There was a mobilization to the embassy in California and NY... anyone that can go to a mobilization in their state should!! And post pics...

That's in LA, right? I'm moving down there in a month, can you tell them to hold the revolution until then?

Now if it were in SF or Sacramento, I might actually go...

[Oso Mocoso]

I have the Honduran and Canadian citizenships (and two others but nevermind about that).

But I don't have any money...

Yeah that sounds about right for Latin America.


*CIA takes note*

I actually doubt that the CIA cares very much about Central America these days. It's not that they don't still like shoving around little countries, it's just that they have bigger problems.

[lowtech redneck]

It doesn't look like there will be civil war.

How much support do you think this guy has, internally? It is my understanding that he managed to alienate most of the population.

I must also say, inviting Cuba into the OAS (which is supposed to be a democratic club) while threatening to suspend Honduras seems more than a little hypocritical...