The American Myth of World War I

[Swift]

http://www.vdare.com/fallon/wwi.htm

The arrival of American troops in 1917 brought Europe damnation, not salvation. By funding and then waging a war that destroyed the traditional social order of Europe, the United States facilitated the rise of totalitarianism—Stalin in Russia, Mussolini in Italy, and Hitler in Germany. Without American intervention in World War I, there would have been no World War II.

[crule81]

If you Belgians just would have let the German Army pass through your country on the way to Paris, Britain would not have joined the allies and Germany probably would have won the war in months and there would have been no World War II.

[Robespierre]

http://www.vdare.com/fallon/wwi.htm

The arrival of American troops in 1917 brought Europe damnation, not salvation. By funding and then waging a war that destroyed the traditional social order of Europe, the United States facilitated the rise of totalitarianism—Stalin in Russia, Mussolini in Italy, and Hitler in Germany. Without American intervention in World War I, there would have been no World War II.

Absolutely. The entante would have been forced to negotiate an equitable peace with germany. Instead, tens of thousands of americans died so JP Morgan could get his loans to Britain and France paid off by the US Government.

[Robespierre]

If you Belgians just would have let the German Army pass through your country on the way to Paris, Britain would not have joined the allies and Germany probably would have won the war in months and there would have been no World War II.

Britain would have found another way to enter the war, possibly by honoring their "entante cordialle" (sorry about spelling) with france. Britain's handlers at the time would not tolerate a stronger imperial germany that could leverage french colonies to itself.

[crule81]

Britain would have found another way to enter the war, possibly by honoring their "entante cordialle" (sorry about spelling) with france. Britain's handlers at the time would not tolerate a stronger imperial germany that could leverage french colonies to itself.

I don't know. Even with the violation of Belgian neutrality, it was still a close call as to whether Britain would join the conflict. It seems that the British public and politicians were more concerned with Home Rule in Ireland in the summer of 1914 than with what was going on on the Continent.

Edit: Maybe Britain would have joined the war eventually, but by then it may have been too late to save France.

[Robespierre]

I don't know. Even with the violation of Belgian neutrality, it was still a close call as to whether Britain would join the conflict. It seems that the British public and politicians were more concerned with Home Rule in Ireland in the summer of 1914 than with what was going on on the Continent.

The public was, certainly. But the military leaders and cabinet members were all about containing germany. Winston Churchill was the political head of the Royal Navy at the time, and was behind a lot of the hijinks in the war. The Lusitania going unescorted through a known submarine hunting zone, the blockade of German and nearby neutral ports of all goods, including food and medicine, etc.

Also, one war was declared, the people seemed jubilant, intially.

[meshou]

http://www.vdare.com/fallon/wwi.htm

The arrival of American troops in 1917 brought Europe damnation, not salvation. By funding and then waging a war that destroyed the traditional social order of Europe, the United States facilitated the rise of totalitarianism—Stalin in Russia, Mussolini in Italy, and Hitler in Germany. Without American intervention in World War I, there would have been no World War II.Yes, we shouldn't have helped out. Because the US should have made decisions based on then unforeseeable eventualities instead of the known reality of tens of millions dying over one country's power kick.

I know all my major decisions are based on ninety years hindsight. Aren't yours?

[crule81]

Churchill certainly was itching for war. But it seemed that many other members of the government were looking for an excuse not to honor obligations to France. Of course, we'll never know.

[jyakulis]

http://www.vdare.com/fallon/wwi.htm

The arrival of American troops in 1917 brought Europe damnation, not salvation. By funding and then waging a war that destroyed the traditional social order of Europe, the United States facilitated the rise of totalitarianism—Stalin in Russia, Mussolini in Italy, and Hitler in Germany. Without American intervention in World War I, there would have been no World War II.

Well the "traditional" social order in Russia before the October Revolutions was basically a feudal society with slaves. There were several attempts at democracy but the noble power was far too stronga and they developed a system to maintain their power. If anything I would argue the rising of the Bolshevik's in Russia was a step forward for the Russia. Furthermore no one knew Stalin was a whack job or that he would eventually rise to power.

[Robespierre]

I know all my major decisions are based on ninety years hindsight. Aren't yours?

As good an argument against centralized state power as I have heard in a while.

If someone is going to assume the mantle of power over a society, they could at least provide the dignity of thinking their decisions through.

[Robespierre]

If anything I would argue the rising of the Bolshevik's in Russia was a step forward for the Russia. Furthermore no one knew Stalin was a whack job or that he would eventually rise to power.

Forward into the grave perhaps...

Of course no one knew what Stalin would do, how could they possibly? Yet another brilliant argument against centralized authorty...

Also, Russian society was recovering from fuedalism at the time of WWI. Great strides were being made in liberalization and infrastructure. It was exactly this that the communists feared. They knew that if russia developed a western notion of property rights and began to successfully modernize, all hopes for a socialist revolution would be lost.