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Fingers
11 Sep 2009, 12:23 PM
Sex tests carried out on Caster Semenya, the world 800 metres champion, show that she is a hermaphrodite, a source close to the case claimed last night.

If the allegation is backed up by the official results, the South African may find herself stripped of her gold medal and banned from racing. The IAAF, the world governing body, refused to comment on the claim last night, but earlier in the day its general secretary, Pierre Weiss, said: “It is clear that she is a woman but maybe not 100 per cent.”

Semenya was believed to have gone into hiding last night and it is understood she is unlikely to appear in her first race since winning the gold last month. Her coach, Michael Seme, said he was now uncertain whether Semenya would compete at the 4,000 metres women’s event at the South African national cross-country championships in Pretoria tomorrow.

Leonard Chuene, the president of Athletics South Africa (ASA), which has been vocal in its criticism of the IAAF, said: “We cannot get involved in gossip of this sort. Our people will speak to Caster and ensure that she puts these rumours from her mind.”

The situation is extremely delicate because of a lack of precedents and Semenya’s high profile in South Africa. The African National Congress Youth League has already accused the IAAF of racism, while Mr Chuene has resigned from the IAAF Council in protest. The source told the Australian Daily Telegraph: “There certainly is evidence Semenya is a hermaphrodite, but the trouble is the IAAF now have the whole ANC and the whole of South Africa on their backs.”

The ill feeling between the IAAF and ASA has been festering since the story broke on the day of Semenya’s final three weeks ago.

The IAAF claim gender verification tests were done in South Africa when their attention was drawn to her huge improvement at the Africa Junior Championships in Mauritius in July. ASA denies that these tests took place and says that the only tests were done by the IAAF during the World Championships in Berlin.

However, it is known that the pre-Berlin tests revealed high levels of testosterone. Nick Davies, IAAF spokesman, said: “If she has excessive testosterone levels that can be treated, then she needs to consent to do this.”

The IAAF is still lacking the South African tests, which it wants to back up its own findings. At yesterday’s press conference at the World Athletics Final in Salonika, Greece, Mr Weiss said: “We have to see if she has any advantage from her possibly being between two sexes.”

Last week Wilfred Daniels, a top South African athletics coach, resigned after accusing the country’s athletics chiefs of duping Semenya into taking sex tests in Pretoria before the World Championships. Semenya was led to believe that they were routine drug tests. ASA denies that the tests were carried out.

The IAAF’s policy document on gender verification states that if there is any suspicion, an athlete can be asked to go before a panel including a gynaecologist, psychologist and an expert on transgender issues. In 2006 an Indian 800 metres runner, Santhi Soundarajan, was stripped of her silver medal at the Asian Games after “failing” a sex test. She was later found to have AIS and was reported to have made a suicide attempt.

Semenya’s mother Dorcus Semenya said last night: “Why must jealousy drive people to say such bad things? They are crazy. It must be jealousy that makes them say she is a man.”

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/more_sport/athletics/article6829813.ece

Would you let her compete in the Olympics as a woman?

Delilah
11 Sep 2009, 12:39 PM
Heh. I was just reading this elsewhere! Funny.
It seems her name could not be more appropriate.

As far as competing? I dunno, it's a pretty teste situation......

zero
11 Sep 2009, 12:59 PM
I could understand if she was pretending to be a woman but if it's a genetic abnormality then I don't understand why she has to give up her medals. That doesn't make much sense to me.

edit: wait..did someone say this is a "teste situation"....ok....my day can now begin.

bluebell
11 Sep 2009, 01:03 PM
As far as competing? I dunno, it's a pretty teste situation......

That's a ballsy effort from you.

Limey
11 Sep 2009, 01:04 PM
I could understand if she was pretending to be a woman but if it's a genetic abnormality then I don't understand why she has to give up her metals. That doesn't make much sense to me.

edit: wait..did someone say this is a "teste situation"....ok....my day can now begin.

If you mean "medals", you got it wrong, she/he doesn't have to give them up. In fact, I think you made that up. No-one has suggested that.

Delilah
11 Sep 2009, 01:06 PM
That's a ballsy effort from you.

Well, it's a eunuch situation.

zero
11 Sep 2009, 01:12 PM
If you mean "medals", you got it wrong, she/he doesn't have to give them up. In fact, I think you made that up. No-one has suggested that.

wow..sorry about that...I thought I read that she might have to...

edit: wait a minute...look back at the top..

"If the allegation is backed up by the official results, the South African may find herself stripped of her gold medal and banned from racing."

Limey
11 Sep 2009, 01:17 PM
wow..sorry about that...I thought I read that she might have to...

edit: wait a minute...look back at the top..

"If the allegation is backed up by the official results, the South African may find herself stripped of her gold medal and banned from racing."

Ok, the writer made it up. Only the Australian media is calling her hermaphrodite, which is probably misleading and I believe more indicative of someone possessing both external genitalia.
The official line is that she will keep the medal/s, but be sidelined from further competition.

Daaf
11 Sep 2009, 01:28 PM
CASTER SEMENYA
YESASE CRETMAN
YES A SECRET MAN....

I am South-African and I find the politicians and Athletic boards to be a fucking joke for letting her compete in the first place, the trouble with African governing bodies is their sheer opportunism, and lack of care for consequences...

RottenApple
11 Sep 2009, 01:32 PM
I feel sorry for her. To have your private life exposed like that....poor girl.

HoneyCyclical
11 Sep 2009, 01:55 PM
I feel sorry for her. To have your private life exposed like that....poor girl.

No shit.
Also, I think she should be able to compete as a female even if she has two sets of external genitalia.
"However, it is known that the pre-Berlin tests revealed high levels of testosterone." ...which could be an ovarian cyst problem (PCOS).

Edit: nevermind about the PCOS. Medical reports indicate (though the source doesn't say from where) she has no ovaries but rather has male testes.

somnium
11 Sep 2009, 02:09 PM
There are a number of disorders where it's surprisingly difficult to decide whether the person affected is male or female. The more you think (and find out) about the issue, the less sure you feel about the definitions of those two words.

These cases tend to be noticed in sports because there aren't many other domains where anybody cares that much about which gender you are.

Daaf
11 Sep 2009, 02:28 PM
Look, no offense to any female athlete, but in the special Olympics that have categories as to how disabled they are, so that fair competition can take place as far as possible, i.e. being only slightly female, versus being completely female makes for an unfair contest...

C.J.Woolf
11 Sep 2009, 02:39 PM
As far as competing? I dunno, it's a pretty teste situation......
BOOOOOOO!

:grin:

Delilah
11 Sep 2009, 02:43 PM
Look, no offense to any female athlete, but in the special Olympics that have categories as to how disabled they are, so that fair competition can take place as far as possible, i.e. being only slightly female, versus being completely female makes for an unfair contest...

How would you break down the levels of femaleness? Ability to squeeze out kids? Grow tits? Cook and clean?
All I know is if it was a personality test, I would be competing with the men, and I would be KICKING ALL THEIR ASSES!


BOOOOOOO!

:grin:

You're just jealous that I beat you to it!

C.J.Woolf
11 Sep 2009, 02:50 PM
You're just jealous that I beat you to it!
Of course I am!

Delilah
11 Sep 2009, 02:57 PM
Of course I am!

Well, you could mention that she came pre Caster-ated.........

C.J.Woolf
11 Sep 2009, 03:13 PM
Well, you could mention that she came pre Caster-ated.........
That's a bit too ovary-the-top for me.

Limey
11 Sep 2009, 03:20 PM
Apparently, God made her that way <shakes fist at the heavens>

cripple
11 Sep 2009, 03:24 PM
Sex is basically testosterone/oestrogen. Generality. Female is decided by visuals. That is all there is to it, the definition.

If the sport is divided in classes, I dont see the problem if she has been competing in the wrong glass. Now she can take on some real challenge.

I know for myself that I would want to compete in the maximum difficulty. Gold if someone else has jumped higher must taste sour, even if that person was god herself.

It is funny though, when these 'truths' are shaken. +1 to Caster.

Limey
11 Sep 2009, 03:37 PM
<burns books that apparently lie about chromosomes, alleles and fancy science>

cripple
11 Sep 2009, 04:00 PM
<burns books that apparently lie about chromosomes, alleles and fancy science>
Excellent. Take some pictures of the deed, and make a website. I'll subscribe. Throw in the bible as well while you are at it.

Chromosomes also show that there is diversity. It is only generalities. So yes, go ahead and burn it. It's most likely not accurate.

Those that call these disorders and defects should take a long good look in the mirror. There is not much ape left, is there? And probably the ape is a 'disorder' as well.

In fact it seems quite clear to me that this branch, humans, of the great apes is a dead end. Evolution will not come from this direction, our 'awareness' will make sure of that. Besides, most, if not all, dominant species go extinct or regress.

Limey
11 Sep 2009, 04:47 PM
we will regress if we all start sprouting tadgers AND veejayjays. I, for one, love myself enough to self-impregnate.

avolkiteshvara
11 Sep 2009, 04:53 PM
I saw a hermaphrodite porno once.


Very..........uhh.......uplifting.

Harion
12 Sep 2009, 07:53 AM
i'd like to see women dunking in the WNBA
Caster can help in this department

Neville
12 Sep 2009, 08:04 AM
>.>

Limey
12 Sep 2009, 08:16 AM
It's a shame Jackson is dead, he could have followed up the smash hit, "Liberian girl" with "South African balls".

South African baaaaalls
you came and you won my gold
your grace is so bold

Semen ya?

egregious cerebrum
12 Sep 2009, 08:53 AM
So the human species has produced some hermaphrodites. In this instance, that's like making a big deal about the athlete who drug-tested positive for THC metabolites. It doesn't affect your performance, or at least it doesn't give you an advantage. Go sit on a cactus, nay-sayers.

Neville
12 Sep 2009, 08:56 AM
Testosterone isn't going to improve her performance? Really?

egregious cerebrum
12 Sep 2009, 09:05 AM
Whoops. Forgot about that part. Did they blood-test the testosterone levels? Do they even need to? I am not sure. I guess I was more concerned with the fact that her hermaphrodite status was publicized, thought they were simply nay-saying because of her atypical status, and easily overlooked the biochemical connotations. My b, dawg.

At least I can identify where and how I went wrong, though.

cripple
12 Sep 2009, 03:48 PM
Whoops. Forgot about that part. Did they blood-test the testosterone levels? Do they even need to? I am not sure. I guess I was more concerned with the fact that her hermaphrodite status was publicized, thought they were simply nay-saying because of her atypical status, and easily overlooked the biochemical connotations. My b, dawg.

At least I can identify where and how I went wrong, though.
Probably her testosterone levels are normal. If you are a winner people will use any excuse in attempts to drag you down because of pettiness.

Architectonic
21 Sep 2009, 08:39 AM
All world champions these days are ultimately genetic freaks, so what is the big deal?

I think there should be a free for all alternative to the Olympics.