quantum theory theory...

[n0mad]

Hmm, I heard of theories such as this already existed, but I'll speak what's on my mind nevertheless.

Anyway, a bit introduction to quantum physics (more precisely, what you SHOULD KNOW for this thread about quantum theory). If there are any true physicist here, please correct me.

First an example. Scientist released one electron through two incredibly small holes. Interferent stripes on the other side showed that electron passed through both holes at the same time! It wasn't strange due to the fact that electron isn't actually material spot as ppl percieved it before. It was probability cloud. His existence is delocalized, as everything else in this space. Now, they tried this. They measured first magnetic current on one hole. Guess what? When they measured it there, it localized itself around that hole. Probability cloud got smaller that most of it covered only that one hole. The interferent stripes on the other end now showed that electron passed mostly through one hole! Amazing , isn't it! The measurement of phenomena defines its probability cloud!

Now a bit of biology... Nerve cells are, besides some space phenomena and mand made instruments, the only structure that can measure those quantum things.

Some more facts. The statistics in world about everything are puzzled with slight difference with what should be and what it is. For example, psychosomatic diseases are not explained. Ppl just become sick because they THINK they are sick. Ppl don't eat at all for 8 years (Siberia case) yet function normally because they THINK they don't have to eat. Ppl move objects with their minds, see future, bilocate themselves because they THINK they can.

Explanation. Our brain, as the most effective known form of consciousness and quantum measurement instrument can actually alter measurements and define reality. And I'm not talking about little psychological thingies that reality is what you think it is. IT ACTUALLY BECOMES WHAT YOU THINK IT IS!!!

Like I said, research has been done on this field, and this isn't yet one yellow paper science fiction stuff. It explained to me a lot. A LOT. Watching world through this theory really does make things make sense.

Feedback, please!

[flan2dave]

You have to be careful when jumping from the "small world" to the "big world." The particle/wave duality of matter and various quantum effects such as potential barrier tunneling (the possibility of matter passing through each other) quickly evaporates as an object becomes more massive. Experimentally, the interference patterns have been shown for objects as big as a 100 atoms or so (just a guess, the largest molecule I read about was a 60 carbon buckyball), which is pretty impressive considering the wavelength of a buckyball would be about 50 nm if it moved at 1 m/s.

Actually, writing this makes me think, because apparently the wavelength grows as the object moves slower, mathematically it has an infinite wavelength at 0 m/s. This seems a bit strange, I think it ties into the uncertainty principle, but I'm a little fuzzy on it. I guess it's saying, if a molecule of appreciable size were to undergo quantum interference, its actions would have to be very slow, so slow that it can't "do" much with its interference effects. The actions of molecules moving at higher speeds (of which there are a lot more if the temperature is relatively high, say 300 K), would be much more important in considering what the physical outcome of a system will be.

That's not to say quantum effects don't have a significant impact on large scales. Many large scale phenomenon require quantum theory to be explained, even though on the surface it may seem fairly normal and easy to explain using classical theory. The photoelectric effect is a clear example of this. If it were not the case, and intensity of light on a surface does eject the electrons with higher kinetic energy, the way we would see things would look totally different. The "magic" is happening right in front of you, it's just not easy to see the connection to the unusual implications.


Now a bit of biology... Nerve cells are, besides some space phenomena and man made instruments, the only structure that can measure those quantum things.

Some more facts. The statistics in world about everything are puzzled with slight difference with what should be and what it is. For example, psychosomatic diseases are not explained. Ppl just become sick because they THINK they are sick. Ppl don't eat at all for 8 years (Siberia case) yet function normally because they THINK they don't have to eat. Ppl move objects with their minds, see future, bilocate themselves because they THINK they can.

Explanation. Our brain, as the most effective known form of consciousness and quantum measurement instrument can actually alter measurements and define reality. And I'm not talking about little psychological thingies that reality is what you think it is. IT ACTUALLY BECOMES WHAT YOU THINK IT IS!!!

That guy is eating, he just ain't telling anyone.

People's ability to "see" the future is interesting, from MBTI I've understood it as an advanced function Ni, the brain subconciously creates images using the collective raw data of the brain, sensory input, and that person's understanding of cause/effect and patterns. For survival purposes, the brain has to convince the person that the visions it made up will be in fact the future, so that person will act on it and profit. Practically speaking, that person did indeed see the future.

Bilocation, telepathy...I'll refrain from completely dismissing it, but I don't see how quantum theory serves to explain it.

Studying the functions of the brain from a quantum perspective would be a very intersting area of research (and challenging, studying matter at the quantum level requires high energies, too high not to interfere with the brain while making measurements).

[n0mad]

I was talking about mind creating (not just percieving) a reality of its own through quantum phenomena.
Quantum theory applies to every scale. It's just that physicists percieve it as irrelevant due to its minor influence.
And the guy in Siberia still isn't eating, according to my info, which may be incorrect.

[Hypnos]

The width of harmonic statistical distributions go like 1/sqrt(N), where N is the number of particles in your system. The roughly the describes the transition from quantum stochasticity to classical determinism.

[flan2dave]

You mean creating a reality so that some of the "rules" of the perceived reality can be circumvented? The brain could direct processes so that only results derived from the quantum effects will be accepted, and throw out all the "usual" stuff, so that something new can be done. By superimposing several states at once, the lack of efficiency (because it's trying to squeeze out events that have low probability of occuring) can be overcome as well. I don't know if the brain functions like this, or if thoughts can make it function this way (I'm taking what I know about the possibility of quantum computers actually).

The theory applies to every scale for the simple reason everything is built from it. I made it a point to say some effects can be easily observed in large scales. Doesn't necessarily mean those things can explain how reality can be created with thought.

[n0mad]

Doesn't necessarily mean those things can explain how reality can be created with thought.
As I percieve it, reality IS created with such processes. I was amplifying my statement that our brains can alter reality with thought because they are in more ability to do so than the other phenomena.

[Dman]

The width of harmonic statistical distributions go like 1/sqrt(N), where N is the number of particles in your system. The roughly the describes the transition from quantum stochasticity to classical determinism.

Argument by Prestigious Jargon.

Kidding, kidding!


Explanation. Our brain, as the most effective known form of consciousness and quantum measurement instrument can actually alter measurements and define reality. And I'm not talking about little psychological thingies that reality is what you think it is. IT ACTUALLY BECOMES WHAT YOU THINK IT IS!!!

Like I said, research has been done on this field, and this isn't yet one yellow paper science fiction stuff. It explained to me a lot. A LOT. Watching world through this theory really does make things make sense.

One problem with this theory is that the above described phenomena have never been proven, only speculation and hearsay. If those phenomena were demonstrable and provable, then we could take the next step and try to figure out HOW they are occurring. But first we need to find out if indeed they are occurring before we just assume they are and jump to the next step.

For instance is your guy in Siberia in a credible research facility, under constant monitoring to ensure he has not eaten anything for 8 years? Unlikely. My guess is that if he were put in a situation where he was monitored 24-7 and he truly didn't eat anything, he'd be dead in a couple weeks. But of course he would never agree to anything like that.

[n0mad]

He was monitored for month or so and haven't eaten within that time. Just info, but we don't need fascinate ourselves with that specific occurence. There is truly a wonderful world outside.

[Chicken]

Hmm, I heard of theories such as this already existed, but I'll speak what's on my mind nevertheless.

Anyway, a bit introduction to quantum physics (more precisely, what you SHOULD KNOW for this thread about quantum theory). If there are any true physicist here, please correct me.

First an example. Scientist released one electron through two incredibly small holes. Interferent stripes on the other side showed that electron passed through both holes at the same time! It wasn't strange due to the fact that electron isn't actually material spot as ppl percieved it before. It was probability cloud. His existence is delocalized, as everything else in this space. Now, they tried this. They measured first magnetic current on one hole. Guess what? When they measured it there, it localized itself around that hole. Probability cloud got smaller that most of it covered only that one hole. The interferent stripes on the other end now showed that electron passed mostly through one hole! Amazing , isn't it! The measurement of phenomena defines its probability cloud!

Now a bit of biology... Nerve cells are, besides some space phenomena and mand made instruments, the only structure that can measure those quantum things.

Some more facts. The statistics in world about everything are puzzled with slight difference with what should be and what it is. For example, psychosomatic diseases are not explained. Ppl just become sick because they THINK they are sick. Ppl don't eat at all for 8 years (Siberia case) yet function normally because they THINK they don't have to eat. Ppl move objects with their minds, see future, bilocate themselves because they THINK they can.

Explanation. Our brain, as the most effective known form of consciousness and quantum measurement instrument can actually alter measurements and define reality. And I'm not talking about little psychological thingies that reality is what you think it is. IT ACTUALLY BECOMES WHAT YOU THINK IT IS!!!

Like I said, research has been done on this field, and this isn't yet one yellow paper science fiction stuff. It explained to me a lot. A LOT. Watching world through this theory really does make things make sense.

Feedback, please!

I think this is a pretty fascinating idea. I'd have to agree with some parts of it too. I have believed things that we view as facts can even in some cases become entirely subjective points of view. In fact, I'd almost bet on it. It's the same mentality people use when they say things like: "You have to know you're the best before you are the best." It's very psychological, and from a subjective view you can bend the world into whatever twisted perspective you want to. I think facts are something, interestingly enough, designed to give people a medium to relate to eachother on without the use of an excessive admittance of emotional dedication. I always wondered about this. A fact is fact, on paper in plain sight. To someone who feels strongly about a particular subject or topic, it is a fact that they feel the way they do about it. Not to say that everyone will agree that the belief their feeling brings about is also fact, but hey... At one time the majority of the population didn't question God at all, and religion was just viewed as a fact. Now I think that concept has been replaced with Science, and it's just a new tool for use to relate to eachother with as a society. I think science, much like religion, is just something to hold our interest while we're here somehow. Maybe in 1,000 years Science and Religion will both become things of the past, and people will embrace something new that they find in the world. Or, should I say, they will explain something new they put into the world, until a better idea comes along.

[Hypnos]

Argument by Prestigious Jargon.

Kidding, kidding!
Definitely, in this instance I'm too lazy to expand it. :)

[Dman]

He was monitored for month or so and haven't eaten within that time. Just info, but we don't need fascinate ourselves with that specific occurence. There is truly a wonderful world outside.

Ok, if not that specific instance, how about like moving objects with your mind? I’d be very interested in seeing any valid scientific evidence of that, because I’ve never seen nor heard any. On the contrary I’ve seen documented instances about people claiming they could, only to later recant and admit that they were fooling people.

I’m not trying to totally debunk your theory, I’m just saying there isn’t enough evidence that I’m aware of to make it believable, whereas there is a lot of believable/provable evidence to the contrary.