I was thinking...

[Apostasius]

If an invisible hand used Ockham's razor to cut the Gordian knot holding the sword of Damocles, would that free one from a Procrustean bed or would one simply be confronted with Hobson's choice?

[Shai Gar]

I was thinking... no you weren't

[Apostasius]

no you weren't

Good point.

[ApeTheDog]

I think you'd find yourself in a prisoner's dilemma if you stole all those ancient philosophical artefacts.

[Claverhouse]

Seems a fair point.

But we don't actually have any trained philosophers here to debate the question.


Claverhouse :ph34r:

[Sackanaka]

Could you deliberate what you meant? At this point it is ambiguous (at least to me) whether the emphasized intention was:
1) Propose an innovatively valid philosophical problem.
2) Play with philosophical rhetoric and Greek allusions.
3) Draw out the curious, only to have them waste bandwidth on various wikipedia searches just so they can find out that they have no clue what you're trying to say.

[Apostasius]

Could you deliberate what you meant? At this point it is ambiguous (at least to me) whether the emphasized intention was:
1) Propose an innovatively valid philosophical problem.
2) Play with philosophical rhetoric and Greek allusions.
3) Draw out the curious, only to have them waste bandwidth on various wikipedia searches just so they can find out that they have no clue what you're trying to say.


#2, #3, and #4 (to be determined)

[Sackanaka]

DAMN YOUS >:O

Oh well, thanks to this I learned a little more about philosophical terminology.

[nobarcode]

I wouldn't cut off my nose to spite my face. :)

[jimkopelli]

What's really odd is that I didn't have to go to Wikipedia for any of those.

Answer... it depends on whether you're actually in the bed or under the sword, because otherwise they wouldn't affect you.
And Occam's Razor only shears things that are possibilities... not hair.

[Miss Anthropic]

Seems a fair point.

But we don't actually have any trained philosophers here to debate the question.


Claverhouse :ph34r:

That has never stopped any of us before.... But it is a little out of my realm now that I think about it.

[ApeTheDog]

If an invisible hand used Ockham's razor to cut the Gordian knot holding the sword of Damocles, would that free one from a Procrustean bed or would one simply be confronted with Hobson's choice? Well, I'd never let my inability to do something stop me from trying it. Here goes...

the invisibility of the hand is irrelevant, because an invisible hand is every bit as capable of a normal one in all the actions that will follow, so we can ignore that.

Occams razor is not a real razor, it is a technique used to come to the truth, so it cannot be used to cut through rope.

If the gordian knot held a sword in it, Alexander would not be the first one to cut through it. Surely somebody else would have seen the sword danging from the knot and thought: "hell, why don't I think outside the box a bit and use that sword to cut through that sucker", so that makes not much sense either.

So, basically, the statement can be simplified to: if something that makes no sense happens, would that free one from a Procrustean bed (a bed where you get dismembered) or would you be confronted with a choice that really isn't a choice at all - ie whatever you choose, it is always wrong.

I think the answer is Hobson's choice, since you are left with either the choice of not reacting to the event at all, or reacting to it, but not being able to do so in a correct way because there is none since the question is flawed.

[Apostasius]

Well, I'd never let my inability to do something stop me from trying it. Here goes...

the invisibility of the hand is irrelevant, because an invisible hand is every bit as capable of a normal one in all the actions that will follow, so we can ignore that.

Occams razor is not a real razor, it is a technique used to come to the truth, so it cannot be used to cut through rope.

If the gordian knot held a sword in it, Alexander would not be the first one to cut through it. Surely somebody else would have seen the sword danging from the knot and thought: "hell, why don't I think outside the box a bit and use that sword to cut through that sucker", so that makes not much sense either.

So, basically, the statement can be simplified to: if something that makes no sense happens, would that free one from a Procrustean bed (a bed where you get dismembered) or would you be confronted with a choice that really isn't a choice at all - ie whatever you choose, it is always wrong.

I think the answer is Hobson's choice, since you are left with either the choice of not reacting to the event at all, or reacting to it, but not being able to do so in a correct way because there is none since the question is flawed.

Huh. That sounds pretty good. It works for me. ;)

[ApeTheDog]

Hurray. Remember to give me credit when you win the Nobel prize with it.

[Zero Angel]

I nominate this for classic status.

[kuranes]

If 'twas the weight of the world whose tether was cut, you might find yourself, as in an elevator counterweight, "hoist by your own petard".

[Jacque]

If 'twas the weight of the world whose tether was cut, you might find yourself, as in an elevator counterweight, "hoist by your own petard".

In other words, you'd be dead.

[illusivemind]

If an invisible hand used Ockham's razor to cut the Gordian knot holding the sword of Damocles, would that free one from a Procrustean bed or would one simply be confronted with Hobson's choice?

I’ll offer an interpretation:

The invisible hand is an economic principle, suggested by Adam Smith that the best outcome for all of society is reached by everyone acting out of self-interest. You all remember “A Beautiful Mind” don’t you?

A Gordian knot is just a really complicated problem, with a context of offering great reward to anyone who can undo it.

Ockham’s razor is the idea that when choosing between competing theories that attempt to explain phenomena, you should choose the simplest.

So we have some complex problem which the (utopian) economic effect of capitalistic self-interest manages to solve by choosing the simple solution.

Let’s say the complex problem is how to empower a society with democracy and human rights which is actually caught in another time-period with medieval religious beliefs and worldviews. To preach freedom and democracy is like preaching to the ancient Greeks about slavery, or about any social norms which have now changed, it is like treating children as adults.

The invisible hand means everyone in America is reaping the rewards of the free-market and self-interested competition and because of their own success they are a living testament and endorsement of the free-market and of liberal democracy. In thinking of how to offer this perfect system to a very different culture they choose the simplest solution, which is bomb the current power-brokers and replace them with more like-minded men.

But in doing so they have released the sword of Damocles. A sword that hangs over all those with great power and fortune that forces them to realize the tenuousness of their position. All wealth is momentary, and pleasure fleeting.

In realizing the arbitrariness of America’s apparent power (due in no small part to their positioning and bargaining after world war two) undermined their own authority in using that power as a world policeman?

The Procrustean bed was a device used to fatally lengthen people who were too short and cut people down to size who were too big. It is “an arbitrary standard to which exact conformity is forced.” The global community has fallen into a Procrustean bed of America’s making. The US as world police enforcing a hegemony of moral and political standards which happen to be expressions of their particular culture at a particular time, to which no divine or universal rightness or justice is attributed.

The realization of the non-authority and arbitrariness of this position will free the world from this cultural imperialism or it will subject the world to the Hobson’s choice which is American Democracy. A choice that is ostensibly free but is in fact not a choice at all. Be it in the guise of choosing between the puppet on the left or the puppet on the right. Or in a people choosing this ‘freedom’ or being subjected to occupation and a proclaimed benevolent dictatorship.


In short, this is utter nonsense. I hope this almost incomprehensible rant has reinforced this point.
;P