Thank You, President Bush, for declaring WAR on the middle class

[indie]

I am FUMING right now. Congress just passed a bankruptcy reform bill that favors (you're never going to believe this one) Big Business. Namely, credit card companies. From the article: "Democrats were furious that the GOP leadership allowed none of the 35 amendments they had proposed earlier to be voted on. They particularly wanted provisions that would exempt from the new bankruptcy requirements military personnel returning from Iraq and Afghanistan, and people whose indebtedness is the result of financial identity theft."
http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/050414/bankruptcy.html?.v=10

Our poor country has gone so far down the toilet it just might never come back up. Sure, Mr. Bush, send the young men and women to war to fight for your "oil," catapault their families into finanical ruin, and tell them they have no option other than to spend the rest of their lives paying high-interest credit card companies money back. That's just fucking great. War has officially been declared on the middle class.

[Thermo]

Thank You, President Bush, for declaring WAR on the middle class


It took you five years of Bush in the white house to realize he was fucking us the whole time. lol

[Biff_Loman]

I kept telling that Phyl T. Mind fellow that the American middle class is next in line to get fleeced, but he seemed incapable of assimilating new information.

[indie]

It took you five years of Bush in the white house to realize he was fucking us the whole time. lol

"lol"

Um, no . . . did I say anything about "realizing" anything? Whatever, dear child, I'll refrain from pointing out the blatant ad-hominem attack there, and refuse to chomp down on your slimy-worm attempt to "bait" me, but thanks for that valuable contribution to the discussion. It's oh-so *very* intelligent and insightful. :smooch:

BEGIN /ignore Thermo mode

Anyway, I don't know about the rest of you, but the thing that pisses me off the most is that they won't even grant exception to people who are the victims of ID theft? WTF is up with that? Some psycho hacker breaks into a company website, steals your info, and *you* are resposible for getting credit counseling and paying back the debt if you are forced into bankruptcy because of it? Also, the military men and women who are fighting overseas . . . their families experience a burden that breaks them (medical bills, for example) and they have no other recourse but to remain in debt?

Hmm. . . it seems like having this particular bill passed is like the final nail in the coffin for our poor country, like Bush is finally having the courage to stand on his pedestel and say "Goodbye, dear middle class. Now that we have this. . . this thing called 'technology,' we don't need your blue-collars anymore. We are richer than you. . . so, OOPS, too bad for you."

[Hypnos]

* Why should you have more rights than your creditors?

* Why should the economy be dragged down by industries which require low wage pricing?

I don't disagree with you, but your arguments are hardly better than Thermo's.

[Thermo]

"lol"

Um, no . . . did I say anything about "realizing" anything? Whatever, dear child, I'll refrain from pointing out the blatant ad-hominem attack there, and refuse to chomp down on your slimy-worm attempt to "bait" me, but thanks for that valuable contribution to the discussion. It's oh-so *very* intelligent and insightful. :smooch:

BEGIN /ignore Thermo mode

Anyway, I don't know about the rest of you, but the thing that pisses me off the most is that they won't even grant exception to people who are the victims of ID theft? WTF is up with that? Some psycho hacker breaks into a company website, steals your info, and *you* are resposible for getting credit counseling and paying back the debt if you are forced into bankruptcy because of it? Also, the military men and women who are fighting overseas . . . their families experience a burden that breaks them (medical bills, for example) and they have no other recourse but to remain in debt?

Hmm. . . it seems like having this particular bill passed is like the final nail in the coffin for our poor country, like Bush is finally having the courage to stand on his pedestel and say "Goodbye, dear middle class. Now that we have this. . . this thing called 'technology,' we don't need your blue-collars anymore. We are richer than you. . . so, OOPS, too bad for you."
I am sorry. It was a poor choice of words. What I meant to say was Bush and the republicans have always been pro-1% richest and screw everyone else.

[Helios]

Hurry and file BK now before it gets ratified!!




*Helios flys out door to fry his AMEX*

[In...TP]

Credit card = loan shark





http://www.ncf.carleton.ca/~bz050/HomePage.gws2.gif

[Hypnos]

Credit card = loan shark
loan shark = entrepreneur

[In...TP]

entrepreneur = life insurance

[Architectonic]

loan shark = entrepreneur

entrepreneur = good
government = bad

:ph34r:

[Hypnos]

entrepreneur = life insurance
To 0th order, yes

You pay to play

[In...TP]

archaeology 101... no free lunch.
http://homepage.powerup.com.au/~songhurs/sunscree.mp3

[nobarcode]

But, trash is handy :)

[In...TP]

Dear is tasty.

[xavierd]

Now I will admit up front that I'm not as well informed on this topic as I'd like to be so take my commits with that in mind, but it sounds like the plan forces people who are in debt to actually pay off their debt instead of using Bankruptcy to get away from it,
'Between 30,000 and 210,000 people -- from 3.5 percent to 20 percent of those who dissolve their debts in bankruptcy each year in exchange for forfeiting some assets -- would be disqualified from doing so under the legislation, according to the American Bankruptcy Institute.' I may be missing something but what is wrong with that? Sounds like they're trying to make people be responsible.

If you owe a credit card company or anybody for that matter you should have to pay it off. And this is why I don't have a credit card, if I don't have the money for something I don't buy it. Sounds logical to me. But if you are going to use credit cards and you end up in debt, oh well, guess you should have been a little more responsible. Now I do agree the part about protection against ID theft is a good idea.

[PsiKik]

Now I will admit up front that I'm not as well informed on this topic as I'd like to be so take my commits with that in mind, but it sounds like the plan forces people who are in debt to actually pay off their debt instead of using Bankruptcy to get away from it,
'Between 30,000 and 210,000 people -- from 3.5 percent to 20 percent of those who dissolve their debts in bankruptcy each year in exchange for forfeiting some assets -- would be disqualified from doing so under the legislation, according to the American Bankruptcy Institute.' I may be missing something but what is wrong with that? Sounds like they're trying to make people be responsible.

If you owe a credit card company or anybody for that matter you should have to pay it off. And this is why I don't have a credit card, if I don't have the money for something I don't buy it. Sounds logical to me. But if you are going to use credit cards and you end up in debt, oh well, guess you should have been a little more responsible. Now I do agree the part about protection against ID theft is a good idea.
The problem is that the new law does not discriminate fairly against those who have a legitimate reason for bankruptcy, such as for those who have been bankrupted due to unforseen and excessive medical expenses, victims of ID theft, those called to military duty etc.

Not everyone who files for bankruptcy is a deadbeat.

In the final analysis the law is the result of much lobying by the credit industry.

[ohnoaninfp]

Dammit Bush! You are turning the whole nation against you. WTF? Don't you care about the nation? Or do you just care about big buisnesses. Next election I am going to vote for my cat, since neither party deserves my vote. Look, MR. Bush you made little Artie cry.

[Thermo]

Dammit Bush! You are turning the whole nation against you. WTF? Don't you care about the nation? Or do you just care about big buisnesses. Next election I am going to vote for my cat, since neither party deserves my vote. Look, MR. Bush you made little Artie cry.
Off-topic....If I had to rate the worst four or five movies of my life, one of my top choices would be watching Adrian Brody carry a bottle of pickles around in that Nazi thing. The guy is skinny and goofy looking with a crooked nose thats just out of control. How the hell did he become an actor? I could out hansome him any day of the week.

[ohnoaninfp]

Off-topic....If I had to rate the worst four or five movies of my life, one of my top choices would be watching Adrian Brody carry a bottle of pickles around in that Nazi thing. The guy is skinny and goofy looking with a crooked nose thats just out of control. How the hell did he become an actor? I could out hansome him any day of the week.
Oh yeah! Send me a pic, or better yet post a poll about it.

[Dman]

Another example of Republican hypocrisy. Supposedly in favor of the “free-market”, they would rather not allow the credit companies to feel the pain of their liberal credit terms to unworthy customers and hence pass on the costs to society instead.

Think about it – as it exists, if credit companies are extending too much credit to people who can’t afford to pay it back, or are otherwise unworthy customers, they eventually reach a point where they don’t pay. This harms the bottom line of the credit companies, and following natural market conditions, the creditors stop issuing credit so liberally and become more discriminating to who they lend credit to and how much.

However, now the cost burden of not paying back the creditors will not be so easily passed on to the creditors. The result is that the creditors continue to issue credit to unworthy customers, thus propagating the problem – and guess who will foot the bill now.

It does nothing to prevent people from borrowing too much or to teach them responsibility. Nobody “plans” to go into bankruptcy. People find themselves there after recklessly taking advantage of the loose terms creditors offer anymore. Whether they are forced to pay some of it back or not does not prevent people from getting overextended in the first place. If you want to teach people responsibility, don’t allow them to take out more credit than they can handle. By not being able to get the credit they want, people will learn that they need to save more money and/or spend less money if they want to achieve better credit offerings.

Instead, this bill seems to be saying to creditors “go ahead and keep extending credit to people who can’t afford it; we’ll force them to pay you no matter what.” Does anyone really think people will stop borrowing more than they can afford because of this bill? The only thing that will prevent that is to NOT give it to them in the first place. And the only way to ensure they don’t get it in the first place is by allowing the businesses that offer it to suffer the consequences of making poor choices. THAT is the free-market way.

Furthermore, what do you think the credit industry is teaching people when it says “bankruptcy? No problem!” If the credit industry was truly being hurt by people claiming bankruptcy, why are they so eager to offer the same people credit again? What lesson does it teach people that if they claim bankruptcy, they can still get credit?

[booyalab]

Why oh why did I have to join the party of hypocrisy? When will I ever learn?

[booyalab]

Furthermore, what do you think the credit industry is teaching people when it says “bankruptcy? No problem!” If the credit industry was truly being hurt by people claiming bankruptcy, why are they so eager to offer the same people credit again? What lesson does it teach people that if they claim bankruptcy, they can still get credit?

It takes some courage to declare bankruptcy and not everyone who declares it had just gone on one too many shopping sprees. For example, some are/were entrepeneurs.

[Serotonin]

Why oh why did I have to join the party of hypocrisy? When will I ever learn?

Yes by definition anyone who attacks Republican party is immediately attacking you booya.... you really identify with them that much?

[mgb]

It takes some courage to declare bankruptcy and not everyone who declares it had just gone on one too many shopping sprees. For example, some are/were entrepeneurs.

Agreed.

I think the point was that bankruptcy no longer excludes a person from paying off their credit card liabilities. Which in most cases is a big reason they were headed for bnkruptcy in the first place.

The main benefactor of this law is the credit card companies. And a law like this is exempt from any sort of market forces.

[Dman]

It takes some courage to declare bankruptcy and not everyone who declares it had just gone on one too many shopping sprees. For example, some are/were entrepeneurs.

I don't argue with that. Not sure what your point was. That entrepreneurs should be exempt from bankruptcy? Or treated differently? Those entrepeneurs know the risks they are taking, they are risk-takers by nature. That shouldn't entitle them to get more credit after claiming bankruptcy. If they want to play the game, they have to pay the price. Same as the goon with the shopping sprees.

[int]

I don't argue with that. Not sure what your point was. That entrepreneurs should be exempt from bankruptcy? Or treated differently? Those entrepeneurs know the risks they are taking, they are risk-takers by nature. That shouldn't entitle them to get more credit after claiming bankruptcy. If they want to play the game, they have to pay the price. Same as the goon with the shopping sprees.Sort of. There are some pretty stupid entrepreneurs out there. Take my old partners, for example.

I'm tempted to say "make the penalties higher" as another barrier - so that only the "real deal" get through, but I may still be bitter.

Starting a business != carte blanche. When you are in control of employees you deserve additional pressure because of said peoples' livelihood.

Anyways, I agree with indiejade. I have yet to read the bill, but to pass on an amendment for veterans and other victims!?!?

[Tlalocone]

http://www.bushorchimp.com/images/pic34.jpg "You are welcome"( G.W. Bush.

http://www.bushorchimp.com/images/pic68.jpg

[indie]

^ bump.

[nobarcode]

Again, trash is handy and I would agree with In...TP that deer is tasty.