The effects of borderline functions.

[lexiphanic]

Just curious about the effects of borderline functions. I'm definitely a strong P, and a strong N, but I also have a weak I and a weak T. I've picked up that INTP is extremely different in the functions than for example an ENTP.

So, what characteristics do you show if you can quite often digress into some of your lesser functions? For example for me, if you just switched the weaker functions and assume the strong dominant functions stayed dominant, I would conceivably have characteristics of eNTP, eNfP, INfP, and finally INTP.

Or, would I just flip all my functions and be an ESFP with a better developed E and F?

I'm curious, because I notice tendencies in myself similar to those four types and not just your typical INTP traits. However, the INTP traits typically hold true.

[Sally]

I test as borderline S, but I only fit an ISTP profile to the degree that it mirrors an INTP profile.

The closest I get to switching functions is when I flip out and go into the ESFJ shadow mode (it's only happened once or twice and it was scary, almost an out-of-body experience). I think I've grown to be more in touch with my F over the years - I always include my feelings when making a decision, but they never have the final word. >:}

[lexiphanic]

As it should be of course.

I think I have spent extended periods of time as an INfP, but my T was always watching me, guarding my perception from the strength of my feelings. Kind of a surreal experience. Like my T would retreat and let f run roughshod over my life, but always be watching, ready to take over again.

[Helios]

I don't know I always test very hardcore INTP, the only variance was if/when I responded with my actions then I would be border line E, and score a higher F, but this was all conditioning, and energy negetive. When I answer true, I am always 80%+, sometimes, my P has been 100%, which I remember meant something bad if it was combined with an artificially higher E. I stupidly don't remember the details. Only that the book said if an INTP scores high P and behaves in an E manner, more than is natural, this is bad and means this (whatever it was), all I recall is that it was dead on, and I resented it :rant:

[Winterpark]

I am not shure what the effects really are, but I am certainly a borderline freak. I always test as an "I" but the rest... man, I wish I wasn't so undecided - which (of course) leads to a recognizable but not very strong "P" function. In general, I think I am a borderline "ST". Although I test more often as an "N", I find the ISTP profile just a little more close. But when I then go and read the INTP profile, I am surprised that I can relate to almost everything in there too. Same thing with the ISFP profile. Next in line is the INFP profile which I can relate to very much, but just in certain mood stages. It's funny, because as an ISTP, the INFP should be my deamon-shadow. But who knows, I might just as well be switching to my deamon-shadow very often.

Actually, what I really think is that it's really cool to have borderline functions, which probably make you very well balanced person, giving you less trouble when it comes to certain process. BUT,........ another possible theory is that the case is vice-versa. Meaning that you 'll have trouble finding your thru self and behaving as one. Instead, you just switch beetween personalities and functions not beeing able to settle anywhere. And as a result showing contradictory behavior, experiencing constant mood swings e.t.c.

Anyway, it's probably one of those things, or maybe both. I don't know.

[j4ck]

I have noticed that under great stress my borderline functions seem to flip flop. For example, I usually test weak P. When I am very stressed I witness more J-like features in myself like compulsive organization, preoccupation with details, etc. I see this "stress flip" as a weakness since it tends to quash my creative thinking...but I can't help it at times...

[Zero Angel]

It would also be useful to compare iNTPs under stress with these other personality forms:

INTP :: Ti,Ne,Si,Fe
-- Contrast to --
ESFJ :: Fe,Si,Ne,Ti (INTPs functions in opposite order, not 'shadow'. This configuration is known as 'dual' and uses all INTP functions in reverse order but same polarity and orientation)
ISFP :: Fi,Se,Ni,Te (INTPs functions in opposite order and polarity. "demonic" form?)
ENTJ :: Te,Ni,Se,Fi (INTP opposing functions. Same function order, but different polarity.)
------------------

In the fact that Fe,Si modes are constructive (but undeveloped) modes of operations that the INTP uses. Fe being the 'aspirational' process according to some theories. I could imagine that the use of Fe,Si would put the immature INTP into a foreign and immature state of mind, however it would still be constructive.

Some theories state that the Fi (internal ethic imaging) on INTPs is actually the 'demonic' process because it is the 'shadow' of the Fe inferior. So if we were to reverse orientations and polarities of all processes, we would have something that resembles an ISFP [Fi,Se] configuration, the 'demonic' form which is easily connected and also a foreign state of mind where the INTP resembles nothing of who he normally is.

However, I have not formed a conclusion because... S/N struggles seem to be common among some IJ's and T/F struggles seem to be common among IPs. How is it that so many people struggle with their 'demonic' functions yet could still be good people? Perhaps it is rather that the form is only destructive in that it inhibits ones personality and causes depression and is the unhealthy substitute for the functoins we SHOULD be attending to (in INTPs case it would be ethic of relations (Fe), instead of internal ethic imaging (Fi).

ARTICLE: Why do We Confuse 6s with 4s?: The Case of Colonel Slader (http://tap3x.net/EMBTI/page7.html)

This is a case where a man is changed from an ISTJ [Si,Te] to a 'wierd' INTJ [Ni,Te] due to function struggles where his internal sensing is changed to internal intution (facing his demons perhaps?). It doesnt say anthing of him acting destructive to others, however his inferior/shadow is what nearly destroys him when it takes its grip. I wonder how many border types have undergone such dilemmas.

[lexiphanic]

INTP :: Ti,Ne,Si,Fe
-- Contrast to --
ESFJ :: Fe,Si,Ne,Ti (INTPs functions in opposite order, not 'shadow'. This configuration is known as 'dual' and uses all INTP functions in reverse order but same polarity and orientation)
ISFP :: Fi,Se,Ni,Te (INTPs functions in opposite order and polarity. "demonic" form?)
ENTJ :: Te,Ni,Se,Fi (INTP opposing functions. Same function order, but different polarity.)
------------------


What is interesting for me, is that people with weaker functions, at times flop to act like entirely different personality types, not just an odd version of the dual. So, there will be times that a personality will use all functions of a different type, not just the relative ones.

[tragula]

You should take the Cognitive Processes test if you haven't already. It might answer some of these questions.

http://forums.intpcentral.com/showthread.php?t=3082

[Zero Angel]

I was hoping there would be some set formula as to personality changes so they can be predicted a little better, but I can see why you would say that.

Also, I have a little intuitive theory on why function struggles are so bad. The way I see it, we tend to order our world a certain way. Totally opposite functions are capable of helping their opposite but functions of the same polarity cannot help each other.

Fe can create the social connections and relations needed to succeed in the outer world. Ti can analyze this, understanding the social connections and using them to better the agenda of Ti (perhaps by getting promoted to a better position)

Te can spot logical order, and when supported by Fi, can be directed towards altruistic causes. Te ordering gives Fi something to give for, and Fi benevolence gives Te a cause as well.

The problems seem to come when functions of the same polarity share the same bandwidth.

Ti is a function designed to learn how things work. Fi is a function to maintain the goodness and integrity of ones soul. However, when one is taken up by Fi, and uses Ti to probe into the depths of ones mind to try and learn how it works, Ti sees nothing but chaos and darkness. Which can plunge a person into dispair since the things that Fi has provoked and can deal with, Ti is helpless against.

Same thing with the extravert functions. Te is a super objective-logical function and conflicts so badly with Fe (objective-relational) that the functions cancel each other out or clash in really unusual ways. Te which calls things as it see's em is stopped by Fe which must remain socially conscious to manipulate how relations are maintained.

The problem, as I see it, it caused when someone is possessed by a function of incorrect polarity. Probably as a substitute for their inferior (aspirational). Its temporarily empowering but simply ends in entanglement.

[lexiphanic]

Nice posts, as always Zero.

Took the test Tragula. Here are my results:

oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooNe
ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooTi
oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooNi
ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooSe
oooooooooooooooooooooooooooFi
ooooooooooooooooooooooooTe
oooooooooooooooooooooSi
ooooooooooooooooooooFe

I'm starting to wonder if I am instead an ENTP with a strong Ni function.

[subtext]

I have noticed that under great stress my borderline functions seem to flip flop. For example, I usually test weak P. When I am very stressed I witness more J-like features in myself like compulsive organization, preoccupation with details, etc. I see this "stress flip" as a weakness since it tends to quash my creative thinking...but I can't help it at times...
But wouldn't you say it had a beneficial influence with your PhD (which I remember from the other thread)?

[Pedro_The_Lion]

I'm starting to wonder if I am instead an ENTP with a strong Ni function.

Do you mean Ne?

Also all of those type tests are based on "functional behaviors" many of which have nothing to back them up.

[lexiphanic]

Yeah, I know. But I can hypothesize either way.

I mentioned the strong Ni function based off of the results from the test. However, considering the difficulty I had in taking the test, I am not too confident of it's results.

[Zero Angel]

I agree with you when you say that the tests are based on functional behaviors, rather then functional preferences. It seems as this type is more influenced by environment which can give a lesser accurate result then a test which measures preferences/efficiencies or compares functions directly against each other.

The socionics functions, however are comparable to the MB cognitive processes. I'm an ENTP/Searcher (intutive-logical extrovert) according to the 300 question MF-Test. My functions are represented by [filled triangle/ENP/Intuition of possibilities] which is comparable to extraverted intuition and [empty square/ITJ/Structural Logic] which is comparable to Ti.

Its just easier to name them by the 2 letter code then by describing the shape.

[smash0gre]

i(67)n(68)t(80)x.


i have just enough organisation and deadline-orientation to make me dangerous.

and i keep a mean, clean kitchen.

[Miss Anthropic]

I was hoping there would be some set formula as to personality changes so they can be predicted a little better, but I can see why you would say that.

Also, I have a little intuitive theory on why function struggles are so bad. The way I see it, we tend to order our world a certain way. Totally opposite functions are capable of helping their opposite but functions of the same polarity cannot help each other.

Fe can create the social connections and relations needed to succeed in the outer world. Ti can analyze this, understanding the social connections and using them to better the agenda of Ti (perhaps by getting promoted to a better position)

Te can spot logical order, and when supported by Fi, can be directed towards altruistic causes. Te ordering gives Fi something to give for, and Fi benevolence gives Te a cause as well.

The problems seem to come when functions of the same polarity share the same bandwidth.

Ti is a function designed to learn how things work. Fi is a function to maintain the goodness and integrity of ones soul. However, when one is taken up by Fi, and uses Ti to probe into the depths of ones mind to try and learn how it works, Ti sees nothing but chaos and darkness. Which can plunge a person into dispair since the things that Fi has provoked and can deal with, Ti is helpless against.

Same thing with the extravert functions. Te is a super objective-logical function and conflicts so badly with Fe (objective-relational) that the functions cancel each other out or clash in really unusual ways. Te which calls things as it see's em is stopped by Fe which must remain socially conscious to manipulate how relations are maintained.

The problem, as I see it, it caused when someone is possessed by a function of incorrect polarity. Probably as a substitute for their inferior (aspirational). Its temporarily empowering but simply ends in entanglement.

All that has to do with from the inside out.....if you are closer to borderline shouldn't that make you better at perceiving the outside world and other peoples' points of view and thus better at negotiating life?

[INTrPosr]

The 4 wing is strong for me. For that reason, I can resonate as INFJ, but never INFP. I have read on the intuitive forum that, this can be my shadowing. My Fe is very strong, which was over developed for preservational purposes when growing up. But, I have always read that the more ambivalent each dichotomy, the better you are balanced, and vice-versa.

[prometheusdestroyed]

You should take the Cognitive Processes test if you haven't already. It might answer some of these questions.

http://forums.intpcentral.com/showthread.php?t=3082

Oh dearie me - ISTJ

"In work ISTJs are highly organised, thorough and goal orientated. They are hard workers who possess a strong sense of professionalism and responsibility, making them reliable and trusted members of a team or organisation. They put their trust in tradition and in proven methods , for which reason they prefer to build on experience rather than take risks and explore future possibilities"

Now that's what I call a clash! No wonder I'm not feeling terribly fulfilled at the moment.

[Winterpark]

Just a thought. I was thinking, the more one gets to know and understand the MBTI theory, the less accurate the tests he takes become. One starts to know what question has what effect on the result and becomes unshure of what he really is like and thus scoring 'borderline' is more and more likely to happen.





INTP :: Ti,Ne,Si,Fe
-- Contrast to --
ESFJ :: Fe,Si,Ne,Ti (INTPs functions in opposite order, not 'shadow'. This configuration is known as 'dual' and uses all INTP functions in reverse order but same polarity and orientation)
ISFP :: Fi,Se,Ni,Te (INTPs functions in opposite order and polarity. "demonic" form?)
ENTJ :: Te,Ni,Se,Fi (INTP opposing functions. Same function order, but different polarity.)
------------------


So, in general, every person experiences all 8 functions in x different order patterns? Is that a reason that there is plenty of borderline scores. People recognizing every function in themselves, but unshure of which function is greater than which, and unable to sort them out?

[cathmc]

Just a thought. I was thinking, the more one gets to know and understand the MBTI theory, the less accurate the tests he takes become. One starts to know what question has what effect on the result and becomes unshure of what he really is like and thus scoring 'borderline' is more and more likely to happen.
I was thinking this exact thing last time I took a test! Probably even subconsciously I was choosing the more INTP answer.
And, of course, you develop your 'lesser' functions as you get older which probalby moves you toward the borderlines.

[Dempsey]

Winterpark said it for me. I don't have much confidence in the tests. I think i'm a borderlins S, yet I can't find the strength or even the existence of S through tests.

[Zero Angel]

Strength or existence of S? I don't know what you mean by that. www.cognitiveprocesses.com has a good description the S/N differences. If you're an INTP you will have Ne as one of your dominant modes of thinking, and if you're ISTP you will have Se as one of your dominant modes of thinking, study the difference to clear up the confusion.

Borderline F P here. Actually, recently I went into a strange state of mind where I was a poor imitation of an ENFP. Overdramatic, Aware, Social, and way over-idealistic. Not something that I could completely control (though my Ti was giving me shit for acting strange but I couldnt will myself strongly enough to stop) but its probably due to feeling taking absolute control of my personality. That the strange state has receded I'm not sure whether to be glad that i'm no longer acting strange or miss the drug like state of bliss I was in. Right now i'm just depressed and withdrawn far more then usual, now that its over. Not sure if its Fi trying to reposses my personality and failing or due to external influences like unresolved dramas. Thats how the T/F border plays out on my personality.

Right now, I really don't like Fi, it really drags me down.

[Winterpark]

Strength or existence of S? I don't know what you mean by that. www.cognitiveprocesses.com has a good description the S/N differences. If you're an INTP you will have Ne as one of your dominant modes of thinking, and if you're ISTP you will have Se as one of your dominant modes of thinking, study the difference to clear up the confusion.


It's interesting data, but I don't think there's enough info on that site to help clear up the confusion.
According to those desriptions I possess a lot of Ti and Si, an equal (large) amount of Se and Ne, and somewhat Fe. I am very low on Te and Ni, and I am not shure about Fi.

What mostly surprises me is the presence of Si (as described on the site), since I should be an IXTP.