Ghosts!

[KentOhio]

I haven't ever seen, heard, or felt a ghost, but I believe they exist. How can people all over the world, in all times, be reporting the same kind of things without them being true? So, do all of you believe in ghosts? Ever experience any, or hear first-hand accounts? We had a dorm here on campus that was supposed to be haunted by a suicide victim. Abandoned for a long time, it got torn down this summer; I wonder what happened to him. There are other places around here that are also supposed to be haunted, most notably the movie theater and an 1880's mansion. The rich man had just purchased a new-fangled heater for his house and his wife was attending to it. It caught her on fire, she ran around trying to put herself out, and she died of the burns. He was broken-hearted the rest of his life, and she is sometimes seen (though not by me) where the accident occured.

[int]

Nope. I don't belive in ghosts in the traditional sense. I think people can connect to the situations like the ones you mention, somehow, and the result is a certain mental event.

I once read a story on Near Death Experiences (often characterized by a sense of floating above you're own body, looking down on yourself), where a doctor put a sign over a patients head with a name on it, and then the patient went other. When He/She came to he/she remarked on an NDE. But when asked what the blatantly obvious sign said, the patient remarked that there was no sign.

I think ghosts fall along similar lines, meaning there is a reaction (due to intuitiveness, or something), but it's more deeply rooted inside our brains, on a level we're still trying to understand.

[SensEye]

Count me among the skeptics. But I am skeptical of most unproven things: UFO's, ghosts, god's, etc.


How can people all over the world, in all times, be reporting the same kind of things without them being true?

Easily. It happens all the time. It is the nature of human psychology that masses of people tend to get all sorts of common misconceptions in their heads.

I don't know onmymind_too so I don't know what to make of his/her story. I am sure s/he thinks s/he believes what is happening is supernatural, but somehow I doubt it really is.

PS> See what happens with pronouns when people don't fill out their gender? Have a heart folks.

[file cabinet]

I have a friend who has told me some of his 'experiences' .. I won't go into detail.. but I do know he wasn't lying and since Onmymind_too doesn't have any benefit from lying and I know he is wiser then most of us.. so I believe him.

[SensEye]

Onmymind_too doesn't have any benefit from lying and I know he is wiser then most of us.. so I believe him

I did not accuse onmymind of lying. I'm sure his experiences are real to him. I simply expressed doubt that he is actually receiving communications from "non-body entities" (to use his term) although he may very well perceive them as such.

To answer his question, I am not surprised he bases his truth on his experiences. I do the same. But when one's experiences are drastically different from the rest of mankind, one does need to question them.

And let's face it, the question of whether there exists life after death is a major issue that has been asked by mankind since forever. A fair amount of effort has been invested in trying to form a scientific conclusion. Nothing significant has ever been found. Onmymind_too claims to have the answer. It would be EXTRAORDINARY if he is right. An insight of earth shattering and life changing significance. Can you blame me for being dubious?

I mean, file_cabinet, you say you believe onmymind_too. Does this mean you now conclude with certainty there is life after death? That's it. Case closed. Unless you where already convinced of this beforehand, I find it impossible that any rational individual could form such a conclusion.


If you sense a ghost you can take your camera and walk around the area you suspect and take pictures and see if any develope. Or you can walk through a house with a tape recorder to see if you pick up extra sounds.

Well you could, but you won't find anything. Lots of so called paranormal researchers have tried. Nothing ever stands up to any amount of scientific scrutiny.

PS> The whole gender thing was just my being light hearted about my wanting to use the correct personal pronoun. I've settled on "he" for onmymind_too for brevity.

[Johnny]

How can people all over the world, in all times, be reporting the same kind of things without them being true?

This is a very valuable question to ask, in my opinion. I was a big horror movie junkie when I was a kid, and I loved to get scared, to imagine that there were things beyond explanation that had a real affect on me regardless, to get my heart pumping and adrenalin rushing.:D

I wish I could share some kind of story of ghosts that got me farther than that, but I can't do anything but speculate that there is perhaps something out there in experience (personal or collective, conscious or unconscious) that can inspire such responses and thoughts from us.

[Claverhouse]

I believe, I believe.

Actually, I ( veering very very far from most people ) believe in fairies and the rest of the others. I would point out that apart from belief, all cultures have affirmed their existence: it is only in the modern world that ( due to our degenerating ) we no longer have proofs of their being. And if you say they seemingly don't appear to us now, who can blame them ?

As for ghosts, I'll just say I don't want to meet one, whether a departed spirit, or in other cases, displaced energy.


Claverhouse :ph34r:

[file cabinet]

I concluded nothing. I have no opinion of the matter really. I believe what he said that is all. Since I have not personally perceived any ''ghosts'' then of course I'm quite skeptical. What Birdnest says sounds like she believes in something so much that her mind makes it real but I'm not accusing her of lying or anything.. she just reacted to this whole ghost phenonom providing various explanations from unknown sources.. contrasting bird's and onmyind's experience is definitely interesting.. or maybe that's just me.. I don't know.
* hopes this thread doesn't stir up drama! *

[Birdsnest]

Just because someone is skeptical doesn't mean they don't exist and just because we think they exist doesn't mean they do. I try to stay neutral because we just don't know.

[ohnoaninfp]

I haven't ever seen, heard, or felt a ghost, but I believe they exist. How can people all over the world, in all times, be reporting the same kind of things without them being true? So, do all of you believe in ghosts? Ever experience any, or hear first-hand accounts? We had a dorm here on campus that was supposed to be haunted by a suicide victim. Abandoned for a long time, it got torn down this summer;

About the dorm. Some time in the early spring or late winter I was passing by it, on my way to art history class, when I heard screams coming from the inside. It was a guy screaming and it sounded like he was in pain. I looked around outside to see if it was just a bunch of dudes goofing around. I didn't see anyone and it sounded like the screams were coming from the inside. I am not making this up either. It was really wierd.

[file cabinet]

I haven't ever seen, heard, or felt a ghost, but I believe they exist. How can people all over the world, in all times, be reporting the same kind of things without them being true? So, do all of you believe in ghosts? Ever experience any, or hear first-hand accounts? We had a dorm here on campus that was supposed to be haunted by a suicide victim. Abandoned for a long time, it got torn down this summer;

About the dorm. Some time in the early spring or late winter I was passing by it, on my way to art history class, when I heard screams coming from the inside. It was a guy screaming and it sounded like he was in pain. I looked around outside to see if it was just a bunch of dudes goofing around. I didn't see anyone and it sounded like the screams were coming from the inside. I am not making this up either. It was really wierd.

that reminds me.. I was driving by a parked car.. and someone in the parked car yelled out the window which of course made me yell/scream girlishly in surprise.. and then I drove past them but they were laying down and probably having a hard time controlling their fits of laughter.. those bastards.. oh well.

[antireconciler]

SensEye, you write very lucidly.

I don't know what to make of experiences Onmymind_too and others describe where they are certainly not lying about what they have percieved. I can't claim to have had any experiences so exotic, yet I find it interesting how others sometimes percieve such things.

[SensEye]

SensEye, I have never "claimed" anything of this sort .... this is clearly what you have judged to be concluded from my experiences, this is totally your perception not mine. Please refrain from projecting your uncertainty upon me, as this is not what I have deduced or claimed at all.


Perhaps not explicitely. But let me explain why I perceived this and then you can tell me where I went wrong.

In your original post you said:

I don't need to "believe" simply because I "know" this other "realm" does exist (because of my life experiences), although I would much prefer to use the term "non-body entities" and not the term "ghost"...

and then later:

on one occassion I was receiving "communication" from a young man, 18, who by his "obvious lack of etiquette" in his attempt to come through to me where he had totally invaded my "space" I instantly "knew" he had recently passed over to the other side. He told me many things to say to "his mum" ...

Your use of the term "passed over" plus the fact that this "non body entity" was once a young man who had a mother leads me to conclude this communication you received was from an entity which was once a mortal being inhabiting the "realm of the living". I think it is logical from these statements to conclude that, if verifiable, this would comprise evidence of life after death.

I do note, your latest response to Johnny:
"I've even thought that perhaps I may be simply "tapping into" the collective somehow...
Is a lot more vague, and that leads me to totally different conclusions. But you have to admit your original post made some rather bold statements.

[SensEye]

There is no way I can tell you as to the reason you jumped to that conclusion

Well I think you could if you read my explanation, but you seem disinclined to do so, so I won't push it.

At this point you seem to be saying to me that you shared your experience in your words and any conclusions I draw from it are invalid since I did not have the experience and/or may not be interpreting your words as you intended.

So at this risk of being accused of jumping to another unwarranted conclusion, I'm going to conclude further discussion on this subject will prove fruitless.

[Johnny]

...never have been one for "horror" movies of any kind, actually real life "horrors" such as discrimination and intolerance are enough for me, give me a "nature documentary" anytime!

Scripted horrors for movie screen entertainment never capture the essence of what terrible things occur in our world for exactly this reason. I agree wholeheartedly that we do have a lot of work to do on the matter of real life horrors.


Is anything ever really linear?
That's an interesting question, to dissect linearity. Another thread?

[Strephonade]

...never have been one for "horror" movies of any kind, actually real life "horrors" such as discrimination and intolerance are enough for me, give me a "nature documentary" anytime!

Scripted horrors for movie screen entertainment never capture the essence of what terrible things occur in our world for exactly this reason. I agree wholeheartedly that we do have a lot of work to do on the matter of real life horrors.

I also agree.

[Groty]

I'm not gonna jump in on the Onmymind_too discussion... I'd rather present my own experiences.

Yes, I've "seen" ghosts. College dorms were built on an old Plantation. In case you don't know, most people were born on the plantation, grew up on the plantation, worked on the plantation, and died on the plantation. I guess you can say they get attached. Anyways, little boy and a little girl. They spent quite a bit of time wandering the dorm rooms. They "walked" past me, then stood watching the girl that was talking to me.

Another was a neighbor that passed away. I don't like to tell people about that one.

Then there's families and friends homes. I can always tell when I walk in if there is another presence. Old Savannah and Philadelphia homes are fun like that.

It's a feeling thing to me. Like when you feel someones energy when they are very happy, or very sad. Or... when you walk into your home, it's totally quiet, no one should be home, but you know your sister is sitting in her room reading a book.

I've had more experiences, but if I keep going, I'd feel like I'm trying to convince people of such experiences.

[CosmicDust]

How can people all over the world, in all times, be reporting the same kind of things without them being true?
The natural brain-building processes and common elements of experience shared by people growing up human anywhere may create templates unique to, but almost universal within, the human species that makes people around the world come up with ghosts and other archetypes. Language seems to be a similar shared quirk of humanity.

[KentOhio]

Did someone remove a post from here? I distinctly remember a Southern female telling of how ghosts are attracted to banana plants. Where did that go?

[Groty]

Did someone remove a post from here? I distinctly remember a Southern female telling of how ghosts are attracted to banana plants. Where did that go?

Nah...

She was a Californian, and it was abondoned mine shafts. :cheers:

[Sam172]

I would love to believe in ghosts or the supernatural. Just I can't because I have no personal proof or evidence of it.

Though I was convinced I could feel my great uncle standing beside me when I stayed in the house he lived in. He had died about a year or so earlier and had lived at that house for a long time.
Mind you it could just have been my mind trying to creep me out in a silent house that my dead relative used to live in.

[lauriep]

I had an experience but I'm still not sure that it was supernatural - maybe just really bad electrical wiring.

I lived in this apartment for about two years and wierd stuff happened. First the stereo would switch from CD to radio by itself. Figured it was just a quirk with the stereo. The lights would flicker regularly but only in some rooms - maybe just bad wires. Once I woke up and the lights on either side of the bed were going crazy (plugged into different outlets) but I could see the bathroom and hallway and nothing else was flickering. This continued non-stop for about 30 seconds, but it felt longer at the time and really freaked me out. Also, the light bulbs in a couple of rooms had to be replaced on a monthly basis - no matter long life bulbs or not.
I also started having horrible graphic nightmares there after a few months. However the most disturbing thing to me though was that I never really felt like I was alone. I'm very private and need my quiet time to recooperate but even when I was alone in the house, I never could really relax. I found after awhile I got really depressed and only felt better when I was out of the house, which for an extreme introvert is not a good thing. I'm still pretty skeptical that it was a ghost or anything but I was still really glad to move.

[Groty]

I had an experience but I'm still not sure that it was supernatural - maybe just really bad electrical wiring.

I lived in this apartment for about two years and wierd stuff happened. First the stereo would switch from CD to radio by itself. Figured it was just a quirk with the stereo. The lights would flicker regularly but only in some rooms - maybe just bad wires. Once I woke up and the lights on either side of the bed were going crazy (plugged into different outlets) but I could see the bathroom and hallway and nothing else was flickering. This continued non-stop for about 30 seconds, but it felt longer at the time and really freaked me out. Also, the light bulbs in a couple of rooms had to be replaced on a monthly basis - no matter long life bulbs or not.
I also started having horrible graphic nightmares there after a few months. However the most disturbing thing to me though was that I never really felt like I was alone. I'm very private and need my quiet time to recooperate but even when I was alone in the house, I never could really relax. I found after awhile I got really depressed and only felt better when I was out of the house, which for an extreme introvert is not a good thing. I'm still pretty skeptical that it was a ghost or anything but I was still really glad to move.

Friend of mine had similar problems. Their ghost really liked the Gypsy Kings. His wife got tired of it, asked the ghost to leave. That was all it took.

[SensEye]

Am I seeing a pattern here, or is it posters from the American "deep south" that seem most prone to believing in ghosts? Some sort of cultural legacy as a result of African mysticism in the slave days?

[Groty]

Banana trees are said to attract ghosts at night.

I have heard that before. Have a friend from Trinidad. I can't remember the foundation of it.

[Claverhouse]

Some sort of cultural legacy as a result of African mysticism in the slave days?

Or through seeing ghosts on a more frequent basis.



Claverhouse :ph34r:

[SensEye]

Or through seeing ghosts on a more frequent basis.
Claverhouse :ph34r:

They're not actually seeing ghosts, they just think they are. Otherwise they would take pictures.

[Claverhouse]

They're not actually seeing ghosts, they just think they are.

That's a purely subjective judgement.


Otherwise they would take pictures.

Apparently ghosts ( whether mere held-over images or actual spirits ) exist in a spectrum that can only be rarely caught on light-sensitive media.

However, they could draw them in pencil, but that might not convince you.



Claverhouse :ph34r:

[crule81]

About three years ago, my grandmother was dying of alzheimer's. I was in class one day talking to the person next to me and suddenly she noticed that my whole face was suddenly turning red. I began to feel warm and hyperventilate. It lasted about 30 seconds and ceased as quickly as it came on. I remember the exact time because I looked at the clock because the professor was late. I found out after I got home that my grandmother had died the exact time that I had this reaction.

[Groty]

Yeah, I had the same thing happen, except it was a friend in a car accident. Began hyperventilating, feeling her... I called her at home, rather than work (middle of the day). Left her a message about her being in a car accident, knowing she was okay.

Anyways... she ended up calling me a witch because of it.

[INTrPosr]

Speaking of ghost, my son brought home VanHelsing and Ghost Watcher last night (he works for a video store when not in school, so we get to see the new releases the week before they go on video).

Ghost Watcher is a low budget movie with some poor acting by the cast, but a bit eerie. If you get a chance to watch it, do you think Laura would be INTP?

[greenintp]

Prefer to leave my options open.

[Seraph]

There's actually more proof to support the existence of ghosts than to support the existence of God. I honestly believe that once you take a look at all the facts, there's no denying a supernatural force exists.

I read a really interesting book a few weeks ago about real-life hauntings. It was very in-depth about some of the theories of spiritualism:

1. All human beings contain a spirit, or soul.

2. When we die, most of our spirits leave for another dimension, commonly known as the "astral plane."

3. What we call "ghosts" are spirits of the dead who remain on earth for some reason. It may be because their death was too violent and traumatic, because they feel like they have unfinished business on earth, because a loved one's grief and emotions for them have bound them here, or because they fear going to hell. These are "earthbound spirits" that usually need some convincing to leave earth.

4. Not everyone can see or hear ghosts. The vast majority of people who do have some degree of psychic ability, whether they realize it or not. Ghosts find it easier to manifest themselves around these people.

5. Negative emotions (anger, sorrow, fear) draw malevolent spirits.

There's a lot more to spiritualism, including the past-lives theory and energy manifestations. Unfortunately, a lot of people are going to doubt it because of the various hoaxes and frauds of the past. I think it's worth a look.

[Sam172]

Care to give us hints in the right direction website wise Seraph?

[Laeskis]

Ghosts? bah.
Maybe a permanent imprint in space caused by massive energy burst given by the human brain upon death, as the essence of consciousness rips a hole through space to achieve the heavenly 10th dimension.
Ummm....NO.
Just a form of mass hysteria coupled with the mindset that we, as humans, are too superior to truly die.
I'm too sexy for my death....too sexy for my death...tooo sexxyy....

[Boozer]

I consider myself a skeptic, but I also feel there is much more to this world than we know. I've never experienced anything like what Onmymind_too mentions. It could be anything from shared delusions of humanity to more evidence backing years of ghost stories around the world. But I'm glad that he was willing to relate it to such a large group of rationals.

Not to question Onmymind_too's sanity but isn't it true that schitzophrenia, an ailment which is more common for INTP's (I think), have symptoms like hearing voices? Not that that would explain the mother's reaction, just an idea that popped in my head.


As a kid I believed in UFO's. I figured the universe was so big there had to be intelligent life elsewhere. Plus it would be really cool to fly an alien ship. Then I realized aliens coming here would be like slumming it in antartica to annoy the batceria.

"We have reached the limits of what anal probing can teach us!"

[jimkopelli]

You know what? Assuming that the only other life out there would be more advanced than us can't be quite right... sure, only a species farther along in technology would be able to come up with a suitable method of travel... but, if there is other life, then there's probably aliens somewhere that are still in the "grunting and hitting each other with rocks" stage of society.

[booyalab]

You know what? Assuming that the only other life out there would be more advanced than us can't be quite right... sure, only a species farther along in technology would be able to come up with a suitable method of travel... but, if there is other life, then there's probably aliens somewhere that are still in the "grunting and hitting each other with rocks" stage of society.

If it's such a slight chance that we have even evolved, how much MORE improbable would it be that aliens would be remotely similar to us..if they managed to evolve as well.