Extending Daylight Savings Time

[Dman]

http://msnbc.msn.com/id/7599782/

This only applies to the US (although may have an indirect affect on other countries)

Has anyone seen/heard this?

What do you think of this, is it a good idea or bad and why?

As you see from the link, the reason is it supposedly will save a large amount on energy costs.

EDIT - according to the poll on that link, the vast majority of people favor extending it.

[Robespierre]

This is downright stupid. The theory is that money will be saved because lights will be run less if people are working and awake during the daylight. Of course, no one is thinking about the other big energy hog in the home, the airconditioner, which would be running MORE if people were awake during daylight more. Not to mention the costs of retrofitting all the computerized clocks out there, much like the y2k bug...

[Dman]

I don’t think the A/C will make any difference at all. I suspect most, like mine, are on a programmable thermostat (especially businesses) so it makes no difference how long people are awake or not. It simply comes on when it gets too hot, no matter the time.

I suspect ovens and stoves would be used less, thus saving more energy, as people continued to barbeque outside when they get home, or go out to eat and dine outside more often than holing up in the kitchen with the lights blazing, the microwave blasting, and the oven and stove roasting away.

I do agree with the retrofitting of the clocks, although doubt it would make as big an impact as the Y2K bug (which as I’m sure you’re aware was dramatically sensationalized). Besides, all that extra effort is good stimulation for the economy and reduces the need for oil!

[Shai Gar]

being a nocturnal creature i cannot understand why all these people want to live diurnal lives, it makes no sense, why not just roll with the hours that you have in your area, be they dark or light

[Robespierre]

I do agree with the retrofitting of the clocks, although doubt it would make as big an impact as the Y2K bug (which as I’m sure you’re aware was dramatically sensationalized). Besides, all that extra effort is good stimulation for the economy and reduces the need for oil!

Nothing sensational about it. Companies spent millions updating software. Perhaps the threat was hyped, but the costs were huge.

All that effort is NOT good for "the economy". Destroying wealth does not add to the total amount of wealth...

[Dman]

Nothing sensational about it. Companies spent millions updating software. Perhaps the threat was hyped, but the costs were huge.

All that effort is NOT good for "the economy". Destroying wealth does not add to the total amount of wealth...

Whose wealth did the Y2K bug "destroy"?

[Robespierre]

Whose wealth did the Y2K bug "destroy"?

You were talking about daylight savings tinkering, and how the money spent retro-fitting would somehow help the economy. Explain how. Money would have to be spent on systems that already work just fine, and would create zero additional production capacity... so how would that help?

[Hypnos]

Daylight savings makes perfect sense except for the utter agony it causes.

[Dman]

You were talking about daylight savings tinkering, and how the money spent retro-fitting would somehow help the economy. Explain how. Money would have to be spent on systems that already work just fine, and would create zero additional production capacity... so how would that help?

Ah, you caught me!

However, are we then saying that the cost/benefit of extending DST is a matter of weighing the cost of retrofitting computer clocks that automatically adjust for existing DST versus the energy cost savings?

I'm not an IT guy, but I would think the clock bug would be a simple download patch to extend the DST adjustment, whereas the energy savings for virtually anyone in the entire country would far outweigh those costs.

[Robespierre]

Daylight savings makes perfect sense except for the utter agony it causes.

I understand the reasons given, but they've never been very convincing to me. Energy consumption is the business of the individual, not something to tinker around with for political reasons.

[Robespierre]

Ah, you caught me!

However, are we then saying that the cost/benefit of extending DST is a matter of weighing the cost of retrofitting computer clocks that automatically adjust for existing DST versus the energy cost savings?

I'm not an IT guy, but I would think the clock bug would be a simple download patch to extend the DST adjustment, whereas the energy savings for virtually anyone in the entire country would far outweigh those costs.

Someone has to write those patches, and most software run by large companies is not microsoft word, it's mostly custom made or highly specialized, so there are hundreds of thousands of applications that must be gone over line by line and modified.

However, collective thinking shows up again in the idea of energy savings. Who is saving energy? Why don't they take actions on their own to save energy? Why should the government involve itself in matters of time-keeping?

[Dman]

The gov already tinkers with energy and matters of time-keeping, for crying out loud! And why do you think businesses don't already take actions of their own to save energy? The smart ones do. But mandated time changes that affect all customers are beyond these businesses control. How could a business save energy in this same way otherwise? Somehow convince the entire population of the US to volunteer to extend DST another two months? Don't think so.

Consider a restaurant. No matter how they try to save energy, customers come in at set times during the day/night, particularly breakfast, lunch and dinner times. During at least 5 of the 7 days of the week, lunch and dinner time is the most popular. If they are coming in between 6 and 9 at night, popular dinner times, also a time period affected by DST, there will be an extra hour of light that the business does not have to turn on its lights. Probably increase their customer base as well, since more people will be out and about during that extra hour of light.

I still don't see a reason why we'd be worse off economically if they do extend DST.

[Pedro_The_Lion]

My computer auto corrects itself by accessing the internet to synchronize itself with some kind of public standard don't all comps do this? No new software/expense would be required as it is already built into the design only the site that is the "standard" would have to be changed which I imagine would be quite cheap. I'm in favor of this idea it's practical and costs close to nothing. I know you are anti-regulation Rob but this seems like a no brainer, reduction of energy demand will allow for cheaper prices and other uses of the energy that could be more productive.

[Hypnos]

Hmmm ... is time an economic externality? I don't think so ... we could just as easily all go by GMT.

If time isn't arbirtrary, doesn't DST mess with sleep wake cycles?