Marxism is outdated

[Mr.Defense]

Seriously people.

Marx would roll over his grave if he sees what the 21st century is like.
The whole theory of exploitation and surplus value does not work in the modern world.

ITs not ownership of the means of production and accumulation of capital that makes you rich.

[Madrigal]

I changed my avatar of Che's pretty face to read less of this shit. *facepalm*

[Anonymous]

Well, now you tell me.

[Rhu]

Is... is the One Thing that makes a man wealthy True Love?

[Polemarch]

Seriously people.

Marx would roll over his grave if he sees what the 21st century is like.
The whole theory of exploitation and surplus value does not work in the modern world.

ITs not ownership of the means of production and accumulation of capital that makes you rich.

I think you need to elaborate here with more than just an assertion. What specifically has taken place in the modern age that would change the fundamentals in Marx's theories? In other words - support this.

[JollyBard]

First: Workers aren't treated like shit anymore.

[Chunes]

ITs not ownership of the means of production and accumulation of capital that makes you rich.

Definitely. But that doesn't cause communism to become outdated more than it would any other economic system.

[LongSilence]

It's not outdated but it's definitely time for people to think beyond it's framework in order to fashion ideas to drive modern politics by.

[Flatchett]

I'm not familiar with Marxist theory but I wanted to post.



:mellow:

[nonperson]

I'm not familiar with Marxist theory but I wanted to post.



:mellow:

Most of the Marxists here aren't familiar with Marxist theory so your post is a valid contribution. :yes:

[Huston]

First: Workers aren't treated like shit anymore.

When compared to speculators they are... oh, and in "developing countries".

[zago]

5 stars. It sounds great, but only on the surface.

[Neobick]

Marxism is as outdated as american liberalism and conservatism. Its an 19th century ideology, the others are even older. Of course everything can be modified to apply to modern conditions. If liberalism and conservatism can, why cant marxism?

[Oso Mocoso]

First: Workers aren't treated like shit anymore.

Have you seen the inside of a third world factory?

Have you ever walked through a favela?

The enormity of workers are treated like shit. Believe me.

[barrylevon]

First: Workers aren't treated like shit anymore.

Right. Just expendable.

[stuck]

Marxism is as outdated as american liberalism and conservatism. Its an 19th century ideology, the others are even older. Of course everything can be modified to apply to modern conditions. If liberalism and conservatism can, why cant marxism?

no, there's a magical aging threshold~ the ancient egyptians used to wipe their asses with a papyrus reed, for instance, and that wasn't a good idea again until the 1950s.

[Architectonic]

First: Workers aren't treated like shit anymore.

In a small minority of countries...

[Mr.Defense]

I think you need to elaborate here with more than just an assertion. What specifically has taken place in the modern age that would change the fundamentals in Marx's theories? In other words - support this.

Marx's theory is just wrong. although he might be right to a certain extent, he is still wrong about the fundamentals.

For instance,You don't need to own big factories and oil wells to considered capitalist. Did Bill Gates and Mark Zuckemberg( Yes I hate him) own big factories to build their wealth?

That was the age of industrial capitalism back then.
Secondly, a socialist paradise is impossible given greed in human nature.
Money and profit is a powerful incentive to innovate and drive progress in society.

[Mr.Defense]

Answer this, what is the capital in capitalism mean?

How do you accumulate capital?

why don't they just call the system moneyism or whatever?

[LongSilence]

Wow.

You just blew my mind.

[Madrigal]

Wow.

You just blew my mind.

Just so you know, that's how I always feel. :grin:

[Mr.Defense]

Wow.

You just blew my mind.

Wow, is that sarcarsm? Because I fail to understand.

Why don't you try to explain why Marxism is not outdated?

[Huston]

Answer this, what is the capital in capitalism mean?

why don't they just call the system moneyism or whatever?

They use that money to buy up real capital (land, resources, etc) from countries being rampaged by corruption and IMF austerity measures. Or they buy up more conceptual forms of capital like patents/IP. So yes, capitalism.


How do you accumulate capital?

Typically by theft through the help of the state.

[LongSilence]

Wow, is that sarcarsm? Because I fail to understand.

Why don't you try to explain why Marxism is not outdated?

Really? I mean, really?

Ok. You're right. Why don't we call it Resourcism? Or Financism? Or Stuffigotism?

Anyway, in a way I do believe Marxism is outdated. As a political theory concerned with proletariats and bourgeoisies it's currently simplistic and polemical. When it gets into the head of rather too proactively aggressive people it can make them go into crusading paladin mode and start calling for the blood of those guilty of villainy that they, as eminent "Marxists", are supposed to be able to define. The ideology attracts and shelters certain philosophically close-minded and self-righteous fanatics in the same way that many religions do.

As a philosophical standpoint it still has a hell of a lot of merit though. While it still continues to deal with internal struggles as to how to function in an overall 'better' fashion, the world needs the tools to criticise our current political systems effectively. When it comes down to it, capitalism is a system based around the process of exchange where society focuses its rewards into the hands of those who exploit new resources and communicate improved ways of doing things. The issue with it is that the methods of exchange of resources become increasingly complex- concepts become companies, markets become stock markets- which leads to a requirement for management of the methods of exchange. And those in this 'management' soon control everything as 'capitalism' becomes a means to its own end.

Marxism is not outdated because it remains an ideology which champions the original effort that goes into creation of resources; it's hard to argue against the idea that creators / labourers deserve as much recognition as those the exchangers / dictators. I do have some difficulty with the notion that human beings and groups won't always want to or at least be persuaded they want to give cuts and commissions to the charismatic salesmen and leaders of this world.

Furthermore, people engage in activities both for the satisfaction gained from them and importantly for the distinguishing recognition that is given for doing something. When they do something different from everybody else they want to feel differentiated from and by everyone else for it. For instance, the strongest man might not have a problem doing the most work for some time just to prove to himself how strong he is, but if no-one distinguishes him for it somehow it's logical he's going to start becoming jealous of 'weaker people' who to him appear to be treated just the same for doing less each day. Basically, social beings tend to want to feel special and unique for who they are and communistic ideals, at least to our current perceptions, don't seem to have as many supports for this.

That said, socialist ideas and Marxist criticisms are currently the most effective political counterpoints to a global self-perpetuating conservative enterprise.

[C.J.Woolf]

That said, socialist ideas and Marxist criticisms are currently the most effective political counterpoints to a global self-perpetuating conservative enterprise.
Indeed; on one level the collapse of communism in the Soviet Bloc was a disaster for workers in the capitalist world, which, with a few exceptions, is now "the world".

[JollyBard]

Answer this, what is the capital in capitalism mean?

How do you accumulate capital?

why don't they just call the system moneyism or whatever?

Damn that's a good question.

[mchampagne]

I think you need to elaborate here with more than just an assertion. What specifically has taken place in the modern age that would change the fundamentals in Marx's theories? In other words - support this.

I think the Labor Theory of Value couldn't hold up to any real kind of scrutiny in today's world. It would seem kind of backward to think about value that way today.

It's his social insight that seems perceptive.