thinking processes

[Helios]

focused thinking is straight forward enough. everyone does it everyday, even feelers. ;)

but I wanted to talk about another 'way' of mulling things. this topic sits on the frontier of what I can express via words. but imagine a somewhat large and complex issue/matter/problem/concept. after the de rigueur focused analysis; if no clear answer is found I will find myself shifting to another 'mode' of thinking. it is very diff and hard to capture with words.


it is firstly unfocused almost to the point of day-dreaming or letting ones mind 'wander', but not quiet. the concept it broken into it components and it is as if all together these are 'tumbled' thru the unfocused mind. like clothes in a dryer. over and over the collection of ideas are gathered in the mind and then tossed again and again with the forward part of the mind barely engaged. it is as if the sub-conscience is watching. looking to see if the components at any point fit together or form an unexpected pattern.

it sounds wildly abstract, but it often proves very insightful for me. I wondered if anyone else does this....in fact I wonder if anyone else even can figure out WTF I am talking about???

[pangolin]

To get slightly MBTI about it, you're engaging in intuitive exploration, rather than rational structuring. To be sure, I'm fairly sure intuitive processes consist mostly of performing rational functions on a subconscious (and consequently much more powerful) level, with the tumbling thoughts being the flashes of light that make it to the surface of consciousness.

[Ptah]

...in fact I wonder if anyone else even can figure out WTF I am talking about???

I get it. Words like "ruminate" and "ponder" come close, but don't quite capture it. Another word, "meditate" shoots slightly past it. So whatever word captures the middleground between these terms might be usefully descriptive.

*shrug*

Anyhow, I'm familiar with the thought-process described in the OP. Very useful at times.

[Qlippoth]

Yes, this is how I do it. I also think intuitively out loud, and it negatively effects my marriage. Often it will progress from a cloud of thinking to multiple shifts in different modes of thinking, as if I am trying on different minds to suss something out.

[md5fungi]

Another word, "meditate" shoots slightly past it.

Not for me. The only large complex problems in my life that have not been eventually solved by seeking easily accessible resources (books, people, etc.) are those of an existential or philosophical vein, and those problems seem to crop up less and less when I get older for some reason.

When I had these problems, a spiritual/meditative experience allowed me to turn off systematic approaches to solving problems and search for maybe a more instinctual or "simple" one.

Not sure if this is the same thing Helicopter is talking about.

[Helios]

I get it. Words like "ruminate" and "ponder" come close, but don't quite capture it.


Ahh, I think we are near each other, but....

To me those terms are something else, something in between.(however just as valid an interesting mode of thought I believe) In that case the concept it broken into it components but the mind only half defocuses, as if it was wading hip deep in the unconscience. Watching the pieces of the concept float and bob, yet still they are understood and labeled. Imgine instead the mind diving under the surface and boldly openng its eyes to seek what was unknowable from the surface

What I struggled to describe prior was a way of thinking so unfocused as to almost be 'zoned out'. It must just be the mind permiting the subconscience maximum poss expression outside a dreamstate. What amazes me is that so much can be gained from it!





Yes, this is how I do it. I also think intuitively out loud, and it negatively effects my marriage.


Ahhh, thinking out load, always a risky affair, lol!

[socrateez]

Interesting. I visualize mine as a tornado of unconnected data. Shit flies out now and then and when it does, a whole bunch of pieces fit. It seems to exist in a state between conscious and subconscious as I am aware of this happening but it is definately below conscious and in the background of sorts. Daydreaming, sort of but different. I am always dimly aware of this mechanism of thought.
I often visualize the disconnected data points as stars in a three dimensional realm where things position themselves according to various relationships of known quantity. The unknowns appear as empty space. Patterns in the knowns can be predictive or intuitive to the unknowns. This isnt without flaw however.
The best example i can give of this is assembling a jigsaw puzzle. The whole may be unknown but for many individual pieces. Once a critical number of pieces assembled is reached, one may accurately intuit the adjacent pieces. Hence, ultimately solving the puzzle. Many ways to approach a jigsaw puzzle. ;-)
Some may be able to assemble the complete picture in the mind by but glancing at all the pieces. They know what it looks like without actually consciously solving it.

[Professor Chaos]

conscious unconscious

[mthomps]

focused thinking is straight forward enough. everyone does it everyday, even feelers. ;)

it is firstly unfocused almost to the point of day-dreaming or letting ones mind 'wander', but not quiet. the concept it broken into it components and it is as if all together these are 'tumbled' thru the unfocused mind. like clothes in a dryer. over and over the collection of ideas are gathered in the mind and then tossed again and again with the forward part of the mind barely engaged. it is as if the sub-conscience is watching. looking to see if the components at any point fit together or form an unexpected pattern.
but I wanted to talk about another 'way' of mulling things. this topic sits on the frontier of what I can express via words. but imagine a somewhat large and complex issue/matter/problem/concept. after the de rigueur focused analysis; if no clear answer is found I will find myself shifting to another 'mode' of thinking. it is very diff and hard to capture with words

it sounds wildly abstract, but it often proves very insightful for me. I wondered if anyone else does this....in fact I wonder if anyone else even can figure out WTF I am talking about???

To be quite honest, I think the process you describe is pretty much your average thinking process, INTP or not. When you cannot clearly work through something all you can do is dive into it at will. You work to divide the problem up into sub categories and then work through those. You try to find connections that you see most clearly. You then attempt to connect said connections with anything else along the way that could make sense. All of this is done with a random brain storming style attitude. The best conclusions I have come up with involving ANYTHING are a direct result of the process you have described.

I think that the random firing of thoughts into attempted patternization is defiantly something the INTP has an easier time with though..

[starjots]

I actually get IN a clothes dryer on "wrinkle release." The tumbling, profuse sweating and near death experience usually brings things into sharp focus.

Eh, well actually I intuit, explore consciously, get stuck, intuit <repeat>. This is a limited process. Your descriptions are intriguing. The process you talk about seems to be a middle-ground with more conscious control of the underlying (very powerful) unconscious.

[OrionzRevenge]

focused thinking is straight forward enough. everyone does it everyday, even feelers. ;)

but I wanted to talk about another 'way' of mulling things. this topic sits on the frontier of what I can express via words. but imagine a somewhat large and complex issue/matter/problem/concept. after the de rigueur focused analysis; if no clear answer is found I will find myself shifting to another 'mode' of thinking. it is very diff and hard to capture with words.


it is firstly unfocused almost to the point of day-dreaming or letting ones mind 'wander', but not quiet. the concept it broken into it components and it is as if all together these are 'tumbled' thru the unfocused mind. like clothes in a dryer. over and over the collection of ideas are gathered in the mind and then tossed again and again with the forward part of the mind barely engaged. it is as if the sub-conscience is watching. looking to see if the components at any point fit together or form an unexpected pattern.

it sounds wildly abstract, but it often proves very insightful for me. I wondered if anyone else does this....in fact I wonder if anyone else even can figure out WTF I am talking about???

This sounds like right brain thinking (yes I know the geography is fuzzy -- Thankyouverymuch).

http://web-us.com/brain/lrbrain.html

As a child Johnny could see great battle scenes or wild beast when he looked into the clouds, but Johnny went off to school and got gold stars for plugging C+A+T together to spell Cat and adding 1+1+1 together to get 3.
...he also got a rap on the back of the hand if he looked out the window into the sky.

Johnny learned reward lay in being able to reason in a sequential, logical way and his powerful holistic/creative thinking process became the brilliant stepchild everyone ignored.
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We try to solve our problems using what won us the gold stars, but sometimes this step-by-step method fails us. The right brain often will already 'know' the answer by looking at the big picture, yet it can't communicate in words & numbers, and so what it has to say goes unheard by the dominate logical/linguistic left brain that you have appointed as problem solver.

Like Luke Skywalker, you have to "Let go!" in order to prevail.

'zone-out'
'tune-in'

Most of us have anecdotes where we struggled with a problem to no avail, sat it aside and BAM! the answer just seemed to come to us out of thin air...or maybe in a dream.

The very fact that you could not verbalize in a straight forward way the concept in mind, but could build two very visual metaphors to explain it, is exemplar of this.

[socrateez]

I took the test and am predominately right brained. Like i didnt already know that! Interesting tips on that page.