What is wrong with you people?

[krunchtime]

You don't need to be angry and snobby to be an elitist.

To be an elitist is to be snobby, plus anger helps :)

[qualia]

What I mean is, personally, I need a lot of anger as ammunition to keep the switch flipped to my J side. Otherwise, I can have little oubursts of temper depending on the situation but they never last, and I'm always back to considering the possibilites, keeping a ear out for anything people say.That works, but for me, either anger or going for something I really really want makes me look more like a "J." I'll show up on time with my clothes perfect and pin-neat for a job I want, I'll pull an all-nighter on a paper to get an A rather than a B and show up the next day attentive and on time, and if someone does something to me which is unacceptable, I know how to say a firm "no" and not budge. I'll get detail oriented when I must clean something in order to entertain people whose opinions I give a damn about, whether they care much about cleanliness or not.

I don't think P is the same as apathetic or easy-going, or unable to learn J-ish skills. They weren't easy skills to learn, they weren't skills I was inclined to learn or use, but they're just tools. They're pretty useful when I want something, and while I won't break them out unless I want or need something, they're pretty easy if I want something enough.

Anyway, just a thought. Some people just have motors in them. Whether its anger or ambition or perfectionism, or just wanting things more badly than most, they'll do what it takes-- if that means a J must sit back and consider things to get what they want, they'll do that, and if a P must start getting detail oriented, they'll do that. Type is tendency, not destiny. :)

Concluding he must be angry before asking the more accurate question might be "what is he getting from this thread and/or what he advocates?" might miss something, if you want to know. Or he could just be angry. I don't care.

[qualia]

Hate to double post, if I am, but I am enamored of the Nicomachean Ethics version of the magnificent man:
Greatness of soul (magnanimity, proper pride), as the name suggests, is concerned with great things. The magnanimous person thinks himself worthy of great things and is really worthy of them; for he who does so beyond his deserts is a fool, and no virtuous man is foolish or silly.He goes on a bit about it, and most of the book is about what a great man is, but humility's talked about as just as bad as unearned pride (as is having things to be humble about!). Unless you find someone or something greater than you. Knowing exactly who you are and what you're worthy of is a virtue. If that means, without malice, conceding you're "better" than some people by your own standards and those of others you respect, you don't need to shout it to the rooftops, but making a big display of being less than what you are is equally bad. Spend your time and talent being excellent instead. :happpy:

You may find Aristotle's an asshole, you would not be the first, but I find an ethics which doesn't make a big fuss about pride or humility refreshing.

[krunchtime]

Concluding he must be angry before asking the more accurate question might be "what is he getting from this thread and/or what he advocates?" might miss something, if you want to know. Or he could just be angry. I don't care.

You're reading me wrongly again :grin: I wasn't referring to the poster of the thread, just people who come to conclusions quickly in general. It was a sort of joke because, quick judgement can come with a lot of underlying anger and insecurities, but it doesn't always have to be the case.


Hate to double post, if I am, but I am enamored of the Nicomachean Ethics version of the magnificent man: He goes on a bit about it, and most of the book is about what a great man is, but humility's talked about as just as bad as unearned pride (as is having things to be humble about!). Unless you find someone or something greater than you. Knowing exactly who you are and what you're worthy of is a virtue. If that means, without malice, conceding you're "better" than some people by your own standards and those of others you respect, you don't need to shout it to the rooftops, but making a big display of being less than what you are is equally bad. Spend your time and talent being excellent instead. :happpy:

You may find Aristotle's an asshole, you would not be the first, but I find an ethics which doesn't make a big fuss about pride or humility refreshing.

I thought that his quote was a sort of tautological argument: you are wise because you are wise, you are a fool because you are a fool. The problem is how do we go about determining whether we are fools or wisemen. Going by whatever standards of measurement, I can always concede that I am better in some areas than some others, but there will always be others who are better than me. Categorically, it seems impossible for me to verify my claim to great things (if I do lay claim to them) I wish I can though :gm:

[Hustler]

LOL I don't know. I like my P a lot until I run into some close-minded Js (no offence) which makes me think that Ps are at a losing end for not being as close-minded and judgemental (read: angry). But this is my character, I tend to approach people more as individuals, than classifying them as some kind of category, it is impossible for me to judge and rank people, unless I am really angry with them - then they go into one category: trashbin. Okay, maybe I should really try being an angry snobby elititst. Afterall, its for my personal benefit :banana:

This is a lot of bullshit. First, you try to blame being on the losing end on being a P instead of a J. Then you go onto say you approach people as individuals instead of classifying them. So, not only have you tried to make some sort of bogus copout, but you've also contradicted yourself.

Also, you totally misunderstood my last post anyway, as you think that being a P automatically qualifies you as having an open mind, which it does not. You need to think this through some more, because your approach right now to formulating an opinion about all of this is very sloppy.

[SolitaryWalker]

You're reading me wrongly again :grin: I wasn't referring to the poster of the thread, just people who come to conclusions quickly in general. It was a sort of joke because, quick judgement can come with a lot of underlying anger and insecurities, but it doesn't always have to be the case.



I thought that his quote was a sort of tautological argument: you are wise because you are wise, you are a fool because you are a fool. The problem is how do we go about determining whether we are fools or wisemen. Going by whatever standards of measurement, I can always concede that I am better in some areas than some others, but there will always be others who are better than me. Categorically, it seems impossible for me to verify my claim to great things (if I do lay claim to them) I wish I can though :gm:

Take a look at it this way, INTPs in the western society, on average tend to be smarter than the majority of people they are surrounded by. It would be foolish of them not to make use of this virtue they have. If they have to do this at the expense of others, be it. Why not, you don't really care about strangers do you, so go ahead and get yourself what you need at your expense if you can get away with it. Most INTPs are smart enough to do that.

Hustler was right on just about every major point in his OP, I did not realize this a few years back.

Perhaps you'd want to say his claims about typology are false. That may well be, but the errors are far from egregious and are certainly salvageable. Although being an INTP does not guarantee that you are better or smarter than most people (as he may say you are), however, on average most INTPs have a lot more potential to be smart and more competent at most activities than the majority of people. If he is not completely right about this point, he surely isn't far off.

All Hustler is saying is that you should become aware of what you have and reap the fruit of your natural talents. You're an idiot if you don't. If we all understood how simple and almost indubitably plausible this is, we'd be puzzled about what all of the fuss surrounding this thread is about.

As for his practical advice like use your intelligence to make money in a creative way (develop a strategy and win), he is uncontroversially on the right track. Most of us are fed up with the conventional world and sure as hell we don't want to depend on the common-place simpletons (typical SJs) to support ourselves. The only way we can accomplish this feat is by making enough money on our own. Yes, jobs are for suckers. Not only do they force us to deal with vacuous conventional imbeciles, but also most of them are mundane and are almost exclusively about fruitless, thoughtless tasks.

Is morality relative? The overwhelming majority of philosophers who commented on the matter believe the case is such. Moral absolutism is a relic of religion and the SJ moral orthodoxy that continues to plague our society. This isn't merely an academic propaganda that most scholars believe in or an instance of mindless conformity, there are many compelling reasons to reject moral absolutism.

It is truly puzzling how something that is a truism has been so vehemently opposed on this board.

The majority of people who protest to the OP either misunderstood its main message or are still young and naive and probably are still enmeshed in the vapid SJ moral orthodoxy.

[krunchtime]

edited out

[YHWH]

I kind of see where you're coming from but from my perspective there is no inherent contradiction. I think what you're not taking in account, is the context or time (i.e. before and after). I don't classify people until they shut me off, then it goes into one category. As for J and P, that is just a tool that helps me to identify where the origins of this crazy cycle begins. As for whether that tool is accurate or not, that, of course is debatable. But frankly, this response is very judgemental here and now

You're totally oblivious of what P and J represent, it would be wise if you simply shut up until you do your little research.

[krunchtime]

You're totally oblivious of what P and J represent, it would be wise if you simply shut up until you do your little research.

On hindsight, there is no reason for me to reply to this because you're just being a smartass. This is probably your shadow Te jumping out of the closet. It is not as if you understand J or P better than myself. The only thing you can logically claim is that: it is better to detach the labels of close-mindedness from Te function, but even that is disputable and I have a point there.


Take a look at it this way, INTPs in the western society, on average tend to be smarter than the majority of people they are surrounded by. It would be foolish of them not to make use of this virtue they have. If they have to do this at the expense of others, be it. Why not, you don't really care about strangers do you, so go ahead and get yourself what you need at your expense if you can get away with it. Most INTPs are smart enough to do that.

Hustler was right on just about every major point in his OP, I did not realize this a few years back. Perhaps you'd want to say his claims about typology are false. That may well be, but the errors are far from egregious and are certainly salvageable. Although being an INTP does not guarantee that you are better or smarter than most people (as he may say you are), however, on average most INTPs have a lot more potential to be smart and more competent at most activities than the majority of people. If he is not completely right about this point, he surely isn't far off.

All Hustler is saying is that you should become aware of what you have and reap the fruit of your natural talents. You're an idiot if you don't. If we all understood how simple and almost indubitably plausible this is, we'd be puzzled about what all of the fuss surrounding this thread is about.

As for his practical advice like use your intelligence to make money in a creative way (develop a strategy and win), he is uncontroversially on the right track. Most of us are fed up with the conventional world and sure as hell we don't want to depend on the common-place simpletons (typical SJs) to support ourselves. The only way we can accomplish this feat is by making enough money on our own. Yes, jobs are for suckers. Not only do they force us to deal with vacuous conventional imbeciles, but also most of them are mundane and are almost exclusively about fruitless, thoughtless tasks.

Is morality relative? The overwhelming majority of philosophers who commented on the matter believe the case is such. Moral absolutism is a relic of religion and the SJ moral orthodoxy that continues to plague our society. This isn't merely an academic propaganda that most scholars believe in or an instance of mindless conformity, there are many compelling reasons to reject moral absolutism.

It is truly puzzling how something that is a truism has been so vehemently opposed on this board. The majority of people who protest to the OP either misunderstood its main message or are still young and naive and probably are still enmeshed in the vapid SJ moral orthodoxy.

You're right in saying that a lot of his advice is practical. Assuming that INTP intelligence, which is empirically measurable, is higher than the majority of the population, it is justifiable to claim that INTPs as a whole have more potential and it is rational to realise this potential by taking practical steps. I am not disputing the main content of his self-help steps. I am just disputing his take on intelligence, ego and all that, because I believe it can result in sociopathy.

Regardless of morality, to be sociopathic is an undesirable state of existence even for oneself, because it can bring about long-term social repercussions. My response obviously comes from a personal, empathetic place. It is possible for you to debunk all morality and I'm not going to argue with you over that. My take is personal, because that is the insight I've gain through countless arguments with others.

[Hustler]

Hustler was right on just about every major point in his OP, I did not realize this a few years back.

Quoted for posterity.

[SolitaryWalker]

On hindsight, there is no reason for me to reply to this because you're just being a smartass. This is probably your shadow Te jumping out of the closet. It is not as if you understand J or P better than myself. The only thing you can logically claim is that: it is better to detach the labels of close-mindedness from Te function, but even that is disputable and I have a point there.



You're right in saying that a lot of his advice is practical. Assuming that INTP intelligence, which is empirically measurable, is higher than the majority of the population, it is justifiable to claim that INTPs as a whole have more potential and it is rational to realise this potential by taking practical steps. I am not disputing the main content of his self-help steps. I am just disputing his take on intelligence, ego and all that, because I believe it can result in sociopathy.

Regardless of morality, to be sociopathic is an undesirable state of existence even for oneself, because it can bring about long-term social repercussions. My response obviously comes from a personal, empathetic place. It is possible for you to debunk all morality and I'm not going to argue with you over that. My take is personal, because that is the insight I've gain through countless arguments with others.

I don't think that deeming morality relative will turn you into a sociopath for two reasons. First of all most people become sociopaths because of their upbringing or some great disturbance in their early life, not because of their philosophical convictions. In fact, I have never even heard of the latter cause serving as the reason for someone to become a sociopath.

Secondly, if you think there are no moral absolutes, it does not mean that you must have no moral principles with respect to how you relate to other. A person who is a moral relativist and accepts Hustler's advice of 'embracing disdain' which is supported by moral relativism may behave like a sociopath towards the mainstream society, yet he may be genuinely considerate to his friends or family.

Moral relativism does not commit you to the view that all moral principles must abandoned, it merely endows you with the flexibility to construct any moral system that suits your purpose. You may choose to behave like a sociopath as you now have the full freedom to construct any morality that you want and consequently you may chose not to have any system of ethical principles at all. However, there is nothing about moral relativism that forces you to do this.

Hence, embracing Hustler's advice are not conducive to the person becoming a sociopath.

[Curtis24]

Great thread!

Agree with pretty much everything Hustler said in his first post, except disdain sometimes needs to be curbed because there actually are some wise opinions out there.

[s0978]

I think I've said everything I want and need to say.

I'm so glad.

[krunchtime]

I'm so glad.

Is there anything else you can say besides this? People on this thread either come up with advice, do an ethical or philosophical walk-through or psychological analysis. You come up with one-liners, which you think makes you look smart and intelligent, because you assume that you are. Wow

Look, if you want to troll people for a hobby, go and do it somewhere else. I know I have an important point to make and I put effort into my posts. I will not allow anyone to hijack my efforts for cyber bullying or smart assery. Back off.

[CheeZ]

if you want to consider me a cop-out and think that my opinions are worthless because it is not logically based, go ahead.

Will do.


End of story.

Good.

[xNTP]

I have a question, Hustler.

You say most jobs are thankless, repetitive, and boring, but weren't you earning an income from playing poker? You don't see that as repetitive?

[cripple]

6 - Never hold yourself to their standards; never let them hold you to their standards. They're idiots. They deserve your wrath. If you are miserable, you are playing their game by their rules. You have the power to bring that to an end. Do you have the courage, or would you rather continue to fall back on your INTPness as an excuse to fail?


I agree with all of this, especially this last point.

[Hustler]

I have a question, Hustler.

You say most jobs are thankless, repetitive, and boring, but weren't you earning an income from playing poker? You don't see that as repetitive?

First, let's clear up this straw man. There are a lot more problems with jobs besides their being thankless, repetitive, and boring. My main problems with jobs are in essence the aspects which do not square with the interests, orientations, self-image, or values of Rationals, as per Keirsey's description (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rational_temperament). I have undoubtedly used different terminology in the past but, having re-encountered Keirsey's concepts again in recent months, I think they are useful ideas for measuring jobs. The biggest offender lies in self-image, because, for the Rational, a healthy self-image is a function of ingenuity, autonomy, and resoluteness. Few jobs in today's workplace culture offer these things to the INTP; the countless threads wherein people complain about their jobs offer testament to this.

With that out of the way, I can say that poker is neither repetitive, boring, nor thankless. It also gives me the opportunity to engage in ingenuity, attain autonomy, and exercise resoluteness. I think that poker could seem repetitive, boring, and thankless to an uninformed outsider, so your question is not completely nonsensical, but your presumption is inaccurate. At least in my case.

[s0978]

You come up with one-liners, which you think makes you look smart and intelligent, because you assume that you are. Wow
You think your rambling ass essays make you look smart? Wow.

[krunchtime]

You think your rambling ass essays make you look smart? Wow.

lol I just know that you are going to say that because that is the only thing left for you to say.

Don't you think that that is totally weak in terms of a snarky comeback?

Proving my intelligence was never the point of my essays, yet I can give as good as I get when necessary.

Fix your subpar emotional intelligence before you try to pick on me.

[bluebell]

lol I just know that you are going to say that because that is the only thing left for you to say.

Don't you think that that is totally weak in terms of a snarky comeback?

Proving my intelligence was never the point of my essays, yet I can give as good as I get when necessary.

Fix your subpar emotional intelligence before you try to pick on me.

I recommend reading this (http://forums.intpcentral.com/showthread.php?p=866907#post866907) post.

[krunchtime]

I recommend reading this (http://forums.intpcentral.com/showthread.php?p=866907#post866907) post.

Thank you. An INTP who is afraid of speaking his or her own mind for the sake of keeping peace is probably a closet another type. I am rationally justified for calling somebody out on trolling or cyber-bullying.

What is bullshit to Person A is not necessarily bullshit to Person B and I have qualified my own responses as subjective, many times.

If you rank bullshit by seniority, rejecting the bullshit of Junior posters and accepting the bullshit of Senior posters, you are acting like all the other organizations which you criticise.

Forget INTP Central. Welcome SJ Central.

[bluebell]

*sigh* I tried. Really, give it a break for a bit. This isn't going to end well. For you, I mean.

[krunchtime]

*sigh* I tried. Really, give it a break for a bit. This isn't going to end well. For you, I mean.

Since you responded on a personal basis....look, I understand all that. The only reason why I even posted was because I felt compelled to point out how close it comes to sociopathy in emotional terms. Yet, I have to sit back and take abuse for pointing out something that is quite self-evident? The central can ban me if you like, honestly, I am not the one at the losing end here.

[YHWH]

Since you responded on a personal basis....look, I understand all that. The only reason why I even posted was because I felt compelled to point out how close it comes to sociopathy in emotional terms. Yet, I have to sit back and take abuse for pointing out something that is quite self-evident? The central can ban me if you like, honestly, I am not the one at the losing end here.

But but, we don't wanna lose your priceless contribution.

[CheeZ]

Thank you. An INTP who is afraid of speaking his or her own mind for the sake of keeping peace is probably a closet another type. I am rationally justified for calling somebody out on trolling or cyber-bullying.

What is bullshit to Person A is not necessarily bullshit to Person B and I have qualified my own responses as subjective, many times.

If you rank bullshit by seniority, rejecting the bullshit of Junior posters and accepting the bullshit of Senior posters, you are acting like all the other organizations which you criticise.

Forget INTP Central. Welcome SJ Central.

http://orionzworld.tripod.com/pic.gif

[krunchtime]

http://orionzworld.tripod.com/pic.gif

Self explanatory.

But I might have done something which you would agree with!

Guess what? I've deleted my posts :)

I finally realised that the problem isn't me :) Have fun

[s0978]

I feel like I deserve a gold star.

[bluebell]

I feel like I deserve a gold star.

http://www.pixabella.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/05/gold-star.png

[CheeZ]

Self explanatory.

But I might have done something which you would agree with!

Guess what? I've deleted my posts :)

I finally realised that the problem isn't me :) Have fun

When everybody you're dealing with thinks you're a dumbass, one of two things is true:

1. Everybody is wrong and picking on you just to be mean and make you feel like a turd because you're new.

or

2. You're a dumbass.

And for the record, I don't agree with you deleting your posts.

[cripple]

Guess what? I've deleted my posts :)

Thanks. But there are still quotes though. They are visable for reading. Maybe if you PM those that quoted them so they can all be deleted?

[krunchtime]

Thanks. But there are still quotes though. They are visable for reading. Maybe if you PM those that quoted them so they can all be deleted?

Unfortunately, I can't control what other people choose to do with their posts. You can try if you like. Don't worry, the quotes are quite minimal with a few snarky comebacks here and there. Or you can just stick to reading the first post :)

[purveyor of truth]

Guess what? I've deleted my posts :)
Why would anybody do that? Either youre a chickenshit or realized how stupid you sounded.

[s0978]

[gold-star.png]
pshaw, you shouldn't have! but thanks *blushes*

[MacGuffin]

Only failures and fuck ups delete their posts.

[Jynweythek]

Only failures and fuck ups delete their posts.

Quoting for posterity.

[qualia]

This has been really dumb since I last read it.

[Bking]

I've done it a few times when I realize that what I'm about to say might be too personal or too penatrating. Realizing that the op is not sharing what I just realized for a reason. I don't need any pre meditated flaming to start being directed at me. I just don't need the stress.....damnit.:dieemo:

[Ming]

1 - Embrace disdain. As one capable of critical thought, you have a right to disregard others and look down on them with an arrogant eye. They are wrong, you are right, and they can be made to pay for their stupidity. All people are not created equal, just be sure you're on the right side of the bell curve.

Bullshit. True leaders, the ones truly are capable of anything, are the ones that lead others alongside them. I hope you're happy with yourself when you die, because when you do, nobody will be beside you.


2 - Money can buy happiness. I know we're told time and again in our youth that this is not true but, let me tell you, it is. One nice thing that comes with having a lot of it is that you don't have to waste time acquiring more of it, unless you feel like it. Some people view money as an end unto itself, but I prefer to think of it as a key which opens doors the world around, which may otherwise remain closed. Use your strategic ability and INTP perspective to use it in an optimal fashion.

Bullshit. Money can't. Happiness is created within the heart. Strategic ability? So 'strategic' to spread your 'strategic' plans.


3 - Jobs are for suckers. Yes, I realize this seems contrary to my above statements on money, in that jobs are the most well-known method of acquiring wealth, but money and jobs are not mutually inclusive. Let's face it, INTPs are just not cut out for the overwhelming majority of jobs out there. Most jobs are boring, repetitive and thankless. Even academia requires that you wake up in the morning and go to a classroom to tell a bunch of ungrateful jackasses something new about Hamiltonian operators or the thoughts of New Criticism or the social practices of dirt-farming tribes in Burundi or WHATEVER. Learn or devise a way to carve out your own niche where you answer to no one, have no one answering to you and have coworkers only if you want them, not because you have to. As an INTP, you will find nothing as valuable in life as outside-the-box thinking.

Haha! I hate jobs too. I'd rather be a couch potato. But I want to work and contribute to society with my awesomeness. You can go live by yourself.


4 - Morality is relative. Kant was wrong, there is no Moral Imperative. The world is rife with chattel to be used or discarded in your rise to X* as you see fit. I do not advocate being a sociopath, but I do suggest you would do well to devise your own conceptions of right and wrong and to understand the way of amorality in optimizing your decision-making.
I agree with this. But sometimes you have to care for the ones around you. Without them, you are just one soul.


5 - Life is a game. Develop a strategy and win. When that strategy gets boring (and it will), develop a new strategy and win again. When winning gets boring, read a book or something.
Game? I wouldn't call it that. I believe in 'winning' in life. I believe in being happy, so I guess that's a way of 'win'. Though I really don't consider strategies in there...


6 - Never hold yourself to their standards; never let them hold you to their standards. They're idiots. They deserve your wrath. If you are miserable, you are playing their game by their rules. You have the power to bring that to an end. Do you have the courage, or would you rather continue to fall back on your INTPness as an excuse to fail?
Haha, I agree with this! But, I don't think they deserve 'wrath'. Those people who choose 'wrath' are just dickheads. A person should follow you, and you others, because of trust. Not because of fear.


*Where X is dominance, power, ultimate laziness, nunchuck skills, computer hacking skills, drawing skills, wealth, infamy or whatever the fuck else interests you.
Ahahha! :p What MMORPGs do you want to play? If you're a guy/gay, wanna be my boyfriend? I need someone interesting like you :smooch:

[Skinart]

You really have no clue where you are posting do you?

You are one of the 'them' Hustler is referring to. Any counterargument you might make is cause to employ items 1 and 6 on his list.

[Ming]

You really have no clue where you are posting do you?

People who idealize pure autonomy don't care about 'true leadership'.

People who want to be left to pursue their own interests can absolutely buy that happiness with money.

The only fear most INTP's would have about being 'one soul' is running out of people worth talking to. For many, that isn't much of a problem as they have been without people worth talking to since learning to speak.

You are one of the 'them' Hustler is referring to. Any counterargument you might make is cause to employ items 1 and 6 on his list.
I kinda feel sorry for you:mellow:.

You really need a hug you know that?

What's items 1 and 6?

[Resonance]

-no logical counterarguments
-complete lack of understanding
-compensates for this by being exceptionally lovable

yep, definitely playing the part of an ESFP all right.

[Ming]

-no logical counterarguments
-complete lack of understanding
-compensates for this by being exceptionally lovable

yep, definitely playing the part of an ESFP all right.
I can't tell if you're being a dick, or being nice?

Logical counterarguments? Where was the argument in the first place?

Lack of understanding? Maybe 'cause I'm a feeler, not a thinker.

[Resonance]

calling someone 'bullshit' is arguing with them fyi

[Ming]

calling someone 'bullshit' is arguing with them fyi
Oh! That's just what I think, not because I want to argue!

[Resonance]

We don't do that here.

[Skinart]

Save it for someone who cares about your emotions.

Since you claim to be here to learn about INTP's, I'm gently, in INTP fashion, and in the spirit of this thread, letting you know you are going down the wrong path to that goal.

Item 1: Embrace disdain.
Item 6: Never hold yourself to their standards; never let them hold you to their standards.

Do you see the big trap you are blundering into now?

[Hustler]

:facepalm:

[stuck]

:facepalm:

Do you have an alarm that goes off when people post in your threads?

[Ming]

Save it for someone who cares about your emotions.

Since you claim to be here to learn about INTP's, I'm gently, in INTP fashion, and in the spirit of this thread, letting you know you are going down the wrong path to that goal.

Item 1: Embrace disdain.
Item 6: Never hold yourself to their standards; never let them hold you to their standards.

Do you see the big trap you are blundering into now?
I want to LEARN about INTPs. Not become one? Isn't that very different?

I might be falling into a trap, but I don't mind. I might be screwed somehow, and lose all the things I like. It's a big fear/insecurity of mine, but I don't mind.

Frankly, I see the ironies in INTPs way of thinking. I mean what you might recognize as a 'trap', others might recognize as something else. It's a matter of perception.

[Ming]

:facepalm:
:p Sorry, I'll stop if you want me to.

[melancholeric]

I want to LEARN about INTPs. Not become one? Isn't that very different?

I might be falling into a trap, but I don't mind. I might be screwed somehow, and lose all the things I like. It's a big fear/insecurity of mine, but I don't mind.

Frankly, I see the ironies in INTPs way of thinking. I mean what you might recognize as a 'trap', others might recognize as something else. It's a matter of perception.

Just go away. It's really the best for all of us.

[Ming]

Just go away. It's really the best for all of us.
Aww, but I really like you guys!

-EDIT- Are you guys scared of intrusion? Just a curious question.

[hoodrich84]

I will regret making such a remark on this thread in fear of getting hurt by The Hustler Cartel but I love 'em too much to not point out where things went wrong.


1 - Embrace disdain. As one capable of critical thought, you have a right to disregard others and look down on them with an arrogant eye. They are wrong, you are right, and they can be made to pay for their stupidity. All people are not created equal, just be sure you're on the right side of the bell curve.



although I've been followed, thrashed and stalked by Madrigal a couple times for personal reasons,
5 years into the future and i see someone a little bit different. Someone who's extremely intolerant of the weak (http://forums.intpcentral.com/showthread.php?p=817067#post817067), pretentious or unpretentious. In order to strive for perfection one must accept all things gullible and infallible. So until then, we will never become an enlightened individual, whose main purpose in life, true or not, is to educate, inculcate, then see through it that everyone enjoys their stay while they still have the privilege to breathe this god-given air that we inhale each and every day.

I could picture him holding and reading his book on "48 laws of power" right now, and with the other hand, going "ALL IN" with a click of a button on the computer screen. But that wouldn't be right, because from what I read, INTP's have difficulties in multi-tasking.

But I could be wrong.

[Shimpei]

Aww, but I really like you guys!

-EDIT- Are you guys scared of intrusion? Just a curious question.

This place is not for spreading love, you'll realize sooner or later. Play by Hustler's rules and you won't get hurt.

[Ming]

This place is not for spreading love, you'll realize sooner or later. Play by Hustler's rules and you won't get hurt.
Why is your avatar a picture of two rabbits then?

[Resonance]

one of them is chewing on the other's throat

[Shimpei]

Why is your avatar a picture of two rabbits then?

My avatar has nothing to do with the atmosphere on INTPc.


one of them is chewing on the other's throat

Haha!

[Hustler]

Do you have an alarm that goes off when people post in your threads?

Yes, it alerts me precisely one hour and five minutes after someone has posted in one of my threads. Or, it could be that I automatically subscribe to any thread I post in (and to the entire High IQ subforum) and, when I refresh my User CP, all such threads with new posts appear therein. So if, for instance, I were washing dishes and, upon completion of that task, returned to my computer and clicked the User CP link, I would then be shown that some n00b had revived my WIWWYP thread with a facepalm-worthy response and, in doing so, gave me the idea to create a thread wherein I ask members to guess how long it would take said n00b to get banned under the new infraction policy proposed by djm.

I'm hoping it will be less than a week, but I don't know how serious the madmins are about this idea, so I don't know if I would be willing to bet that it would be less than a week.

[Ming]

one of them is chewing on the other's throat
:stupid: Dammit didn't see that!

[Rosky]

Using your INTP status as an excuse for your misery and failure is, at best, a weak cop-out. I'm an INTP and I have found life on Earth to be quite accomodating, despite being subjected daily to the idiocies which come with living in an SJ world. I don't think I'm alone in this. And, yes, I detested high-school, performed poorly in college and hated every job I ever had.

1 - Embrace disdain. As one capable of critical thought, you have a right to disregard others and look down on them with an arrogant eye.

2 - One nice thing that comes with having a lot of it is that you don't have to waste time acquiring more of it, unless you feel like it. Some people view money as an end unto itself, but I prefer to think of it as a key which opens doors the world around, which may otherwise remain closed. Use your strategic ability and INTP perspective to use it in an optimal fashion.

3 - Jobs are for suckers.


5 - Life is a game.

6 - Never hold yourself to their standards; never let them hold you to their standards. They're idiots. They deserve your wrath. If you are miserable, you are playing their game by their rules. You have the power to bring that to an end. Do you have the courage, or would you rather continue to fall back on your INTPness as an excuse to fail?



Yea i basically agree with you all the way. "Professionalism" (by whatever your operational definition of it is) is a creation and anyone who falls for it is letting the game play them. I mean it goes for all standardized testing, no test actually tests how much a person knows but only how well a person can take a test. Same goes for our entire education system prepping people for the "professional world", graduating doesn't mean anything except you know how to pass classes. Passing classes is just a sign that a person probably knows how to get along in the corporate world.

It just cant believe it when people take their job structure so seriously that their whole life changes to conform to it. Most my friends are ENTJ's who work for themselves. They subject their employees to the corporate environment knowing that its all crap to keep people properly motivated and under control.

Ive worked for banks and did a lot of sales, so that's where im coming from. After a few Glengarry Glen Ross type of days i realized the game real quick.

[C.J.Woolf]

-EDIT- Are you guys scared of intrusion? Just a curious question.
Not scared, irritated. And we're not irritated by the intrusion per se but by the combination of your posting style, which if you had lurked for a while before posting you would know was incompatible with this forum, and your posting volume. INTPc does not get as much traffic as TypoC and it doesn't have the epically prolific posters TypoC has. We found that more than 20 posts per day from any poster, no matter how good, is irritating in and of itself. It gives you the feeling of "This guy is fucking everywhere!"

So please dial it back.

CJW, administrator.

[Delilah]

Aww, but I really like you guys!

-EDIT- Are you guys scared of intrusion? Just a curious question.



So please dial it back.


Better yet; Go away. (http://www.typologycentral.com/forums/vaispy.php) Quickly and quietly.

[OtakuJolyn]

I mean it goes for all standardized testing, no test actually tests how much a person knows but only how well a person can take a test. Same goes for our entire education system prepping people for the "professional world", graduating doesn't mean anything except you know how to pass classes. Passing classes is just a sign that a person probably knows how to get along in the corporate world.


I feel the exact same way. Our education systems don't really teach anything, it's just turning you into a parrot, a repeating of information. the better you repeat, the better 'grades' you get, then when you master that, you graduate!
:sadbanana:

[bugsydakid]

I read the posts of my fellow INTPs with a combination of disgust and amusement, but mainly the former. How many threads can we possibly see where some socially-inept, confused youth is asking for help talking to women, or where some washed-up never-has-been is drowning us in the accounts of his descent into the misery that is his life? At least there are a few threads on general depression and underachievement thrown in there from time to time to spice things up.

Using your INTP status as an excuse for your misery and failure is, at best, a weak cop-out. I'm an INTP and I have found life on Earth to be quite accomodating, despite being subjected daily to the idiocies which come with living in an SJ world. I don't think I'm alone in this. And, yes, I detested high-school, performed poorly in college and hated every job I ever had.

But, instead of just ranting, I would like to be helpful. So, for your reading pleasure, I offer some advice:

1 - Embrace disdain. As one capable of critical thought, you have a right to disregard others and look down on them with an arrogant eye. They are wrong, you are right, and they can be made to pay for their stupidity. All people are not created equal, just be sure you're on the right side of the bell curve.

2 - Money can buy happiness. I know we're told time and again in our youth that this is not true but, let me tell you, it is. One nice thing that comes with having a lot of it is that you don't have to waste time acquiring more of it, unless you feel like it. Some people view money as an end unto itself, but I prefer to think of it as a key which opens doors the world around, which may otherwise remain closed. Use your strategic ability and INTP perspective to use it in an optimal fashion.

3 - Jobs are for suckers. Yes, I realize this seems contrary to my above statements on money, in that jobs are the most well-known method of acquiring wealth, but money and jobs are not mutually inclusive. Let's face it, INTPs are just not cut out for the overwhelming majority of jobs out there. Most jobs are boring, repetitive and thankless. Even academia requires that you wake up in the morning and go to a classroom to tell a bunch of ungrateful jackasses something new about Hamiltonian operators or the thoughts of New Criticism or the social practices of dirt-farming tribes in Burundi or WHATEVER. Learn or devise a way to carve out your own niche where you answer to no one, have no one answering to you and have coworkers only if you want them, not because you have to. As an INTP, you will find nothing as valuable in life as outside-the-box thinking.

4 - Morality is relative. Kant was wrong, there is no Moral Imperative. The world is rife with chattel to be used or discarded in your rise to X* as you see fit. I do not advocate being a sociopath, but I do suggest you would do well to devise your own conceptions of right and wrong and to understand the way of amorality in optimizing your decision-making.

5 - Life is a game. Develop a strategy and win. When that strategy gets boring (and it will), develop a new strategy and win again. When winning gets boring, read a book or something.

6 - Never hold yourself to their standards; never let them hold you to their standards. They're idiots. They deserve your wrath. If you are miserable, you are playing their game by their rules. You have the power to bring that to an end. Do you have the courage, or would you rather continue to fall back on your INTPness as an excuse to fail?

*Where X is dominance, power, ultimate laziness, nunchuck skills, computer hacking skills, drawing skills, wealth, infamy or whatever the fuck else interests you.

I have the positive drive for all of the above, and that is not the tiring problem for me. What is though is proving it again and again to people who did not see me do it the first time when I was as perfect and happy as an ENTJ.

Seriously, how many middle school or high school honor rolls?, college semester dean's lists', money or jobs does it take before I prove to the outside world that I am capable of their daily hazing living in this crappy world bent on the brink of destruction.

All of my counselors, past and current, have commended me for my growth in character, yet how much must I grow before I have the right to say that its their problem? So in a sense starting with myself is alright, what should I do about the non Nt world though?

[Solitaire Unraveling]

So in a sense starting with myself is alright, what should I do about the non Nt world though?

Pimp the system.

[Resonance]

I have the positive drive for all of the above, and that is not the tiring problem for me. What is though is proving it again and again to people who did not see me do it the first time when I was as perfect and happy as an ENTJ.

Seriously, how many middle school or high school honor rolls?, college semester dean's lists', money or jobs does it take before I prove to the outside world that I am capable of their daily hazing living in this crappy world bent on the brink of destruction.

All of my counselors, past and current, have commended me for my growth in character, yet how much must I grow before I have the right to say that its their problem? So in a sense starting with myself is alright, what should I do about the non Nt world though?

Never. Everyone wants to think they are better than, or at least equal to you, and sadly few are burdened with a remotely accurate perception of reality.

[Nigerian INTP]

Never. Everyone wants to think they are better than, or at least equal to you, and sadly few are burdened with a remotely accurate perception of reality.

I was thinking on this topic two days ago. Almost everyone craves to think they are better than others and ironically, their definition of 'better than others' was set by the same people they obsessively try to be greater than. Their entire lives revolve around trying to acheive superiority to the masses who set the standard of what is greater/better and what is not, so in a way, the actions they take are decided by people they delude themselves into thinking they are superior to.

[Faust06]

I was thinking on this topic two days ago. Almost everyone craves to think they are better than others and ironically, their definition of 'better than others' was set by the same people they obsessively try to be greater than. Their entire lives revolve around trying to acheive superiority to the masses who set the standard of what is greater/better and what is not, so in a way, the actions they take are decided by people they delude themselves into thinking they are superior to.

We're all guilty of exclusionary status-seeking behavior. INTPs are no less attention whores.

[Nigerian INTP]

We're all guilty of exclusionary status-seeking behavior. INTPs are no less attention whores.

That is true. INTP's tendencies to see themselves as the only sane people on earth is proof of this.
Ah well. I guess all hope of altruism among humans is lost then.

[1199]

[begins running]

also running ...

[synagogue]

Best OP of all time on here.

[shum]

Hustlebunny is mine. Don't you bitches forget it.

[dubbeltop]

Hustlebunny is mine. Don't you bitches forget it.

:facepalm:

[composer]

Fuck, OP is good. How did I miss this?

My apologies Hustler, I've underestimated you ...

[Iggy]

I think I'm beginning to understand why I don't fit in anywhere. Not sure the 58 pages added that much to the OP but an interesting two days reading nonetheless. Time to quit the 9-5 and get out on my own, I think.

[asperger]

Not sure the 58 pages added that much to the OP but an interesting two days reading nonetheless.


I think I'm beginning to understand why I don't fit in anywhere.

The first answers the second -- you should try a masochism forum.

[Skinart]

Or... change the number of posts per page in your user settings.

[DontCare]

Of course the OP is correct. It'll probably just take most people here a while, or some drugs, to realize it (assuming you're all actually rational). Some questions for those who disagree:

1) Have you realized that you have a finite lifespan (under current conditions)?
2) Have you realized that after you are dead, nothing that happens matters to you anymore?
3) As a corollary to 2, that only the time you are alive (truly) matters to you?
4) Do you strictly prefer being happy to being not happy?

Answering 'yes' to all of those questions is really all you need to deduce what OP's saying.

[Miko]

I think that caring enough to read so much and react so strongly to an internet forum says something about yourself as well. It is the interwebs, we are not having high tea and wearing monocles, hmmyessss shallow and pedantic.

[Skinart]

This reminds me: I need to get a monocle. Also, I'm out of proper tea.

[Resonance]

Tut tut. I daresay the public seems to have mistaken us for members of them. Surely they must see the Harry Rosen price tag hanging off your watch?

[Skinart]

I daresay not! First, the public is oblivious to anything not base and vulgar. Tis the reason we call it vulgar after all! *chortle

Further, leaving a price tag on something is so tacky! It implies you needed to know the price before deciding to buy. Scandalous!

[Tommo3]

Hooray!

[Cam'ron]

I just want to say thanks for making this thread.

I first read it in 2009 and I can say that it has actually changed my life.

Realizing that jobs are for suckers was the most liberating thing I ever learned.

[god and friends]

parasites

[Gessinger]

Funny stuff...

[Roger Mexico]

Further, leaving a price tag on something is so tacky! It implies you needed to know the price before deciding to buy. Scandalous!

I briefly lived in Oakland, CA in 2008 and it seemed to be a fashion trend among teenagers to do this with embroidered baseball caps. One of the dumber-looking fashion trends I've encountered in recent years. (And that's saying a lot given a combined 6-7 years in Portland.) Visually, it mostly suggests thart you forgot to take the tag off before putting the hat on, or didn't realize you were supposed to take it off, rather than expressing pride in the act of purchasing it, which I assume is the point.

Saw a kid wearing one on the train here the other day and severely hoped he had just recently moved here from Oakland instead being a plague rat carrying the whole thing up here.

Kill it! Kill it!

[HoneyCyclical]

I briefly lived in Oakland, CA in 2008 and it seemed to be a fashion trend among teenagers to do this with embroidered baseball caps. One of the dumber-looking fashion trends I've encountered in recent years.


I think wearing a baseball cap period when you are not playing baseball, are not protecting yourself from the sun/glare or are over the age of 12 is one of the dumber-looking fashion trends. The retardation increases when a baseball hat is worn inside, sideways or backwards ESPECIALLY if you are over the age of 12. At that point why are you wearing it at all? Couldn't you easily wear another hat without the brim since the brim serves no purpose in these scenarios? Adding super baggy clothes and clunky open tennis shoes to the get-up is an added visual pleasure of seeing an adult being immediately regressed to the age of 7.

[MacGuffin]

I think wearing a baseball cap period when you are not playing baseball, are not protecting yourself from the sun/glare or are over the age of 12 is one of the dumber-looking fashion trends. The retardation increases when a baseball hat is worn inside, sideways or backwards ESPECIALLY if you are over the age of 12. At that point why are you wearing it at all? Couldn't you easily wear another hat without the brim since the brim serves no purpose in these scenarios? Adding super baggy clothes and clunky open tennis shoes to the get-up is an added visual pleasure of seeing an adult being immediately regressed to the age of 7.

IT LOOKS COOL MAN.

http://www.blackfive.net/photos/uncategorized/2008/12/29/obama__gangsta_cool_2.jpg

[oleander]

I've been putting this off:

This thread is the reason I joined the forum, to say thanks.

Thanks. None of OP's post really applies to me anymore (I have beyond a doubt proven myself to be the stupid kind of INTP, if INTP at all), but it was good for months of lots of heavy thinking. Changed some of my world view, how I see myself, &c.

But, thanks, anyways.

[Lagspike]

Unfulfilled potential is the story of many INTPs. We find the SJ society to be wierd and the feeling is mutual. We like to do many things but in the end we don't do anything superbly. Si makes us doubt everything, Fe forces us to stop doing anything useful, injecting fear of rejection into us.

But let's face it - those are just excuses.

1) People of all sorts of types and IQs have managed to become wealthy and successful. INTPs along our ENTP friends have the most developed ability to think strategicaly and long term. These are extremely useful gifts, if used properly.
2) We are very rational and unless under severe pressure we will not engage in actions that are clearly not logical, which is again a huge plus compared with the general population.
3) We can learn huge quantities of information very swiftly and efficiently.
4) We reflect the image of very smart people.
5) We are very creative.

Nature gives you something and takes away something else. Protip: There is a reason any major company has a board of directors, executive board etc. It's because the CEO himself isn't actually capable of making all the decisions by himself. Life is about maximizing strenghts and minimazing weaknessess. We have very specific and rare strenghts, but we have the issues related to the actual execution. Big deal, hire someone that can do it. XXTJs aren't really hard to find.

My personal issues aren't really related to the procrastination as I've learned how to time myself properly to give myself enough time to finish a task without engaging in insane crunch or degrading standards (although I would always rather be late than deliver something that's not perfect, if the situation allows this). Inferior Fe is a big issue of mine and constantly blocks me whenever I need to do something major, but I'm slowly trying to suppress it. After all, rationaly speaking, it's a primitive emotion that was developed by humans tens of thousands years ago back when we were living in small groups. And it's not like all of those successful TJs were hampered by what everyone else thought about them.

Nobody is really perfect or perfectly suitable for success. People with strong Fe get to know a lot of people and more easily bond with them. XNTJs are intelligent, but their focus limits their ability to think on strategic scale similar to what we can achieve. No one has it all, it's just a matter of choosing the right field to fully leverage your talents and achieving greatness.

Be ambitious and remember that the very chance that you're alive is so small that it's more like a statistical mistake. Being born smart only sweetens the deal. Chose something you like, perfect it. Use your Ti-Ne potential. Don't allow your weaknesses to stop you. Whenever I was in a sitation where my anxiousiness was starting to stop me from doing someething I put things in a perspective of myself 70 years older. Is it really that wise to allow a great chance to slip by just so I can calm down my Fe? I never did regret anything I did while being under Fe pressure and I'm sure any INTP reading this can relate to this.

[Rubicon]

Inferior Fe is a big issue of my and constantly blocks me whenever I need to do something major, but I'm slowly trying to suppress it. After all, rationaly speaking, it's a primitive emotion that was developed by humans tens of thousands years ago back when we were living in small groups.

This atitude well hold you back enormously whatever else you think. You will never overcome your Fe issues until you learn the value of Fe and feelings and they will control you more that you will ever know.

[starjots]

This atitude well hold you back enormously whatever else you think. You will never overcome your Fe issues until you learn the value of Fe and feelings and they will control you more that you will ever know.

Careful lagspike, you don't want to cross the Rubicon.:banana:

[Lagspike]

This atitude well hold you back enormously whatever else you think. You will never overcome your Fe issues until you learn the value of Fe and feelings and they will control you more that you will ever know.

Maybe, but whenever I allowed Fe to dominate my reasoning it ended up in a dissaster. It allows you to blend in and it's a strong motivation to improve yourself, but its downside of preventing you from doing things out of fear from an embarrasment is extremely troubling.


Careful lagspike, you don't want to cross the Rubicon.:banana:

Is he dangerous?:ph34r:

[MyMomentously]

Is he dangerous?:ph34r:

Yeah, he rubs icon. So be careful with your icon. :ph34r:

[Skinart]

Let's just say, once you do, there's no going back.

[Sloth]

Our Fe function is perfectly fine, other types just have overactive Fe functions. We're actually the regular ones ;)

I agree Lagspike, whenever I let my Fe guide me it always comes out wrong. Until I found out I was INTP and all that came with it, I thought I was emotionally retarded (well I guess in some ways INTPs kinda are lol).

Generally speaking, we're all or nothing kind of people. We think in extremes because we have the ability to do that. Even though I feel I have an overall high capacity for empathy, my experience of my emotions is either that I'm feeling too little or enntiirreelllyyy too much. When I'm on the high end of the extreme I can't think clearly, I make careless mental errors, and that bothers me deeply. I think that's the main reason the Fe doesn't mature in a lot of INTPs. We hate all things that fuck with our ability to conceptualize.

[Lagspike]

Our Fe function is perfectly fine, other types just have overactive Fe functions. We're actually the regular ones ;)

I agree Lagspike, whenever I let my Fe guide me it always comes out wrong. Until I found out I was INTP and all that came with it, I thought I was emotionally retarded (well I guess in some ways INTPs kinda are lol).

Generally speaking, we're all or nothing kind of people. We think in extremes because we have the ability to do that. Even though I feel I have an overall high capacity for empathy, my experience of my emotions is either that I'm feeling too little or enntiirreelllyyy too much. When I'm on the high end of the extreme I can't think clearly, I make careless mental errors, and that bothers me deeply. I think that's the main reason the Fe doesn't mature in a lot of INTPs. We hate all things that fuck with our ability to conceptualize.

Actually, our Fe is overreactive compared to other types, but it's always negative. You know that feeling of entering a room and feeling depressed when nobody takes notice, despite that maybe they're busy? Yeah, that's IXTP Fe. Our Fe is always negative, the downside of our superior Ti talents.

[Sloth]

Actually, our Fe is overreactive compared to other types, but it's always negative. You know that feeling of entering a room and feeling depressed when nobody takes notice, despite that maybe they're busy? Yeah, that's IXTP Fe. Our Fe is always negative, the downside of our superior Ti talents.

Yeah that makes a lot of sense. I always thought it was interesting that on a lot of INTP profiles that we're described as being "non-emotional" and "cold" (and I know I certainly come across that way to other people) but on the inside I feel like I'm probably the most sensitive and emotional person in the room. I've always thought the main reason for that was our Ne mixed with a funky Fe. Well, I suppose it still may be, but I was just wrong about the type of funky that our Fe actually is.

[Lagspike]

Yeah that makes a lot of sense. I always thought it was interesting that on a lot of INTP profiles that we're described as being "non-emotional" and "cold" (and I know I certainly come across that way to other people) but on the inside I feel like I'm probably the most sensitive and emotional person in the room. I've always thought the main reason for that was our Ne mixed with a funky Fe. Well, I suppose it still may be, but I was just wrong about the type of funky that our Fe actually is.

I'm the same, really. I care about people a lot, but I don't know how to properly express it and when I try it ends up being wierd. The best way to be social is to express your Ne. People are usually quite positive when I reflect on my ideas and thoughts, as most people don't have developed externel intuition and the creativity that comes from it. Being touchy-feely (Fe), on the other hand, due to it's inferior position in our cognitive processess, isn't really a smart thing to do. It always looks akward.

[Sloth]

Being touchy-feely (Fe), on the other hand, due to it's inferior position in our cognitive processess, isn't really a smart thing to do. It always looks akward.

Haha! You got that right! Whenever a friend of mine is upset (over something legitimate, I have little patience for over dramatic people), I really want to do something but come up clueless about what course of action I should take. This particularly sucks being female and being expected to be nurturing and comforting. I find that when I attempt to be consoling in a more tradition way people interpret it as insincere and almost like I'm trying to mock how they feel.

I've discovered that a good general approach to those situations is to use wit and humor, which engages the Ti and Ne, so you're right about that.

People significantly less intelligent than me find me just as boring as I find them, so I usually find myself around people that enjoy a good pun :D My favorite aspect of INTP thinking is the ability to OWN systems (in the case of puns, language). I can pull a pun out of just about anything someone says. It's always a hit in an emotionally intense situation.

[Lagspike]

I usually explain highly complex things to a crowd, with the fabrics of the universe being my favourite one. SJs get fascinated, as their Si-Ne axis goes through great effort to consume what I'm trying to explain. SPs get pissed because they can't see what I'm trying to explain. Just use your Ne skills and talk with enthusiasm about complex things. SJs will worship you. Don't go overboard, though. I remember when the class got angry when every time we had religious education it usually ended up with me and the ENFP professor engaging in a discussion about quantum mechanics and origins of universe.

[Sloth]

Don't get me started about SPs lol. My neighbor is an ESTP and although we hang out every now and then, a lot of the time our interactions are the emotional equivelent of nails on a chalk board. She never understands when I'm joking and it took her a while to pick up on how smart I actually am. We get along, but I believe that's because as an INTP I don't engage emotions, so her ESTP general aggression has never turned on me in a direct way. It is, however, still difficult to be around her because that general aggression is the human equivalent of an air horn in the face.

Although we have obvious difficulty "getting" each other, we share an oddly warm bond. I asked her to take the test because I couldn't place her, and found our interaction to be really interesting. After the results, our connection has grown in a lot of ways. We've actually chuckled about the air horn thing. I think she genuinely had no idea. For a while she wrote me off as a bit spineless until she saw me in a professional setting and realized that I reserve my assertiveness for things that are important. That was really foreign to her because she has the energy to go to war over every tiny issue that pops up throughout the day. It didn't occur to her that things were more interesting in my head than outside of my head... so most my energy gets internalized. Another thing that helped her realize I'm not a fearful moron was having matter of fact discussions about body language and how I'm completely aware of how one should carry oneself in a situation to attain dominance. She started to get that I'm not a type of person to fight for social dominance unless there's a very important reason... chilling out with some people while we drink some beers and relax is not a context where I would ever come across as anything but meek :P I can't completely blame her for the judgment.

Oh silly SPs. Are they all that oblivious to NTs? Do you think it's particularly bad with INTP relations?

[Lagspike]

I have had very bad experiences with ESTPs. I do not attempt to dominate everyone I meet and, as you described, reserve my assertiveness to situations I find to be very important to me, for whatever the reason, so they see me as weak and attempt to demonstrate their alpha-manliness on me. I try my best not to interact with them, because I got into a few fights with an ESTP athleet that attempted to showcase his AMOG position, which I couldn't care less for. ESFPs aren't particularly troubling, but I don't click with them, either.

[Resonance]

Yeah that makes a lot of sense. I always thought it was interesting that on a lot of INTP profiles that we're described as being "non-emotional" and "cold" (and I know I certainly come across that way to other people) but on the inside I feel like I'm probably the most sensitive and emotional person in the room. I've always thought the main reason for that was our Ne mixed with a funky Fe. Well, I suppose it still may be, but I was just wrong about the type of funky that our Fe actually is.
You just need to practice, like everyone else. The only difference between an Fe inferior and an Fe dominant is how likely they are to exercise it naturally without thinking about it. By the same token, ESFJs tend to need to practice their critical thinking skills, because they get by without them most of the time and find it less rewarding than you do. Remember, MBTI describes preferences, not innate talents.

[RaptorWizard]

i hate SJ and NF types! they always agree with the system... how boring

[UniversalMagnetism]

This thread changed my life. I used to live in dumpster and then one day I read this thread while browsing internet forums on my smart phone and was like

WOW. THAT'S IT! AMAZING!

I became a scientologist and my life changed forever. THANK YOU, HUSTLEMAN.

[MrWrite3000]

Embrace disdain. As one capable of critical thought, you have a right to disregard others and look down on them with an arrogant eye. They are wrong, you are right, and they can be made to pay for their stupidity. All people are not created equal...

Am I the only one reminded of X-Men here?

[UniversalMagnetism]

Am I the only one reminded of X-Men here?

Magneto? Yeah, I guess it does now. Interesting observation. I wonder if he has a Charles? What superficial mbti type would you give old magneto from the x-men movies? We can pretend that's Hustler's type, even though he might be dead or in prison for all that anyone seems to know.