Pvt. Manning tortured for seven months by U.S. gov

[Anonymous]

Private Manning, accused by the U.S. gov for releasing private documents to WikiLeaks, has been tortured with solitary confinement for the last seven months. He's kept in his cell for 23 hours a day, not allowed to exercise, and not even allowed a pillow or blankets. He's administered antidepressents so that his brain doesn't snap into a psychosis.

The cognitive effects of solitary confinement are as long-lasting and traumatic as physical torture. The article discusses it in great lengths, but here's an important part:


When one exacerbates the harms of prolonged isolation with the other deprivations to which Manning is being subjected, long-term psychiatric and even physical impairment is likely. Gawande documents that "EEG studies going back to the nineteen-sixties have shown diffuse slowing of brain waves in prisoners after a week or more of solitary confinement." Medical tests conducted in 1992 on Yugoslavian prisoners subjected to an average of six months of isolation -- roughly the amount to which Manning has now been subjected -- "revealed brain abnormalities months afterward; the most severe were found in prisoners who had endured either head trauma sufficient to render them unconscious or, yes, solitary confinement. Without sustained social interaction, the human brain may become as impaired as one that has incurred a traumatic injury." Gawande's article is filled with horrifying stories of individuals subjected to isolation similar to or even less enduring than Manning's who have succumbed to extreme long-term psychological breakdown.

http://www.salon.com/news/opinion/glenn_greenwald/2010/12/14/manning/index.html

I don't know how the Obama administration even has a remote claim to legitimacy when horrific human rights violations like these are being perpetrated without even the slightest attempt to put a stop to it. Obama ran his campaign off of messages like "hope" and "change", and part of the change he promised was shutting down Guantanamo and the accompanying policies of torture. Well he hasn't done either of those things. In fact, this case shows that he doesn't even really want to. Closing Guantanamo is admittedly a big task, but putting a stop to something as atrocious as this is not.

[Bongmaster General]

Without getting too politically deep here, I can vouch for how much most of us take having a soft place to rest our heads on for granted. I only had to stay in a holding cell for one night without a pillow, but it was definitely a contender for the least comfortable night I've ever had. Once you get too tired not to try to sleep, you start fucking up your head by resting it on a hard metal surface, which then makes the attempt at rest intolerable, which is followed by growing too tired to care again, which leads to further compounded head pain in the futile pursuit of sleep. Not only are you unable to get rid of the kind of headache that cycle breeds anytime soon, but you also have to deal with that headache getting worse and worse as the night goes on, which makes the inability to sleep several times more disturbing.

[MoneyJungle]

I've spent a few months in military prison. Not in solitary except during in processing. They are really vigilant about prisoners not exercising or sleeping/laying down during the day. There isn't shit to do except read the Bible and prison rulebook (try staying awake reading either of those). I'm curious as to what privelages he has for that one hour out of his cell. You surrender your rights when you sign on that dotted line.

[rainfall]

Is he allowed to jerk off?

Serious post: USA is a fascist regime.

[vSv]

Sick. Torturing him won't solve any problem. Sadistic bastards.

[giegs]

In the old days he would have been shot dead by now. Or hung.


I fully agree that this is completely fucked and a wrong thing to do to any person, but we don't have a draft going. If you want to sign up to work for an openly militaristic (duh!) organization with a clearly documented history of human rights abuses, and then betray that organization, that's on you.


To quote a great man: "I don't want to live on this planet anymore."

[nonperson]

I've spent a few months in military prison. Not in solitary except during in processing. They are really vigilant about prisoners not exercising or sleeping/laying down during the day. There isn't shit to do except read the Bible and prison rulebook (try staying awake reading either of those). I'm curious as to what privelages he has for that one hour out of his cell. You surrender your rights when you sign on that dotted line.

When you escaped did you take the Los Angeles underground as a soldier of fortune?


As for Pte Manning I wonder what Terry Taliban does do those who cross him? And as a US tax payer don't you think Pte Manning should be paying back his pay and benefits that he took under false pretences? And do you think relatives of any US servicemen or indeed anybody who gets killed because of these leaks should be able to sue Pte Manning?

[Anonymous]

When you escaped did you take the Los Angeles underground as a soldier of fortune?


As for Pte Manning I wonder what Terry Taliban does do those who cross him? And as a US tax payer don't you think Pte Manning should be paying back his pay and benefits that he took under false pretences? And do you think relatives of any US servicemen or indeed anybody who gets killed because of these leaks should be able to sue Pte Manning?

As far as I'm concerned, the U.S. military is criminal and inhumane. I think that any act of resistance towards it, even if it comes from someone dumb enough to sign up for the military, is honorable.

[nonperson]

Would you like us to start a collection for an air ticket to Pakistan?

Legitimacy comes from below and I don't think anybody in the US voted for Assange. And as Clausewitz said an army has to reflect the people from which is drawn. I think the link between the US and its army is lot stronger than many, many on the Left would like to think.

As an aside you do know what Pakistan means in Urdu?

[pesquisa]

As far as I'm concerned, the U.S. military is criminal and inhumane. I think that any act of resistance towards it, even if it comes from someone dumb enough to sign up for the military, is honorable.

Any? Was the Fort Hood shooting (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fort_Hood_shooting)honorable?

[Anonymous]

Would you like us to start a collection for an air ticket to Pakistan?

Legitimacy comes from below and I don't think anybody in the US voted for Assange. And as Clausewitz said an army has to reflect the people from which is drawn. I think the link between the US and its army is lot stronger than many, many on the Left would like to think.

If you'd been reading the WikiLeak cables, you'd realize that Pakistan is working arm in arm with the U.S.. Most "resistance" in the Middle East has been usurped by a bunch of theocrats and autocrats who want to take the region even further into a hellish social backwater than it has already been stuck in by colonial Western economic ambitions. Even if they got us out, the people would be just as bad as they already are, and they will be until they have some sort of actual, working class revolution.

And how the hell does our army reflect us? No one we're offered for electoral candidates actually does what they promise or represents us. It's not even a pretense of democracy anymore.


As an aside you do know what Pakistan means in Urdu?

This sounds like the bad setup of a joke by Evignus.



Any? Was the Fort Hood shooting (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fort_Hood_shooting)honorable?

Don't know about honorable, but I wasn't broken up over it. I'd rather see one of our soldiers dead than an Afghani civilian dead.

[C.J.Woolf]

Anon, I think nonperson is suggesting that a majority of Americans are right-wing, especially regarding the "War on Terror", and the Army reflects that.

I had to look it up in Wikipedia, but "Pakistan" is "Land of the Pure" in Urdu. I knew it was an acronym (Punjab, Afghan Province, Kashmir, Sind, and BaluchiSTAN), but I didn't know the word had another meaning.

[nonperson]

I admire your passion but the world is a shit hole and people do lie for all sorts of reason. If you ran the country or the world people would disagree with you and you would have to deal with it. There is no thing such thing as a moral absolute.

As for Pakistan if you read the leaks you would know that factions in the Pakistani government are supporting the Taliban too. And some seem to be playing both the US and the Taliban against the middle. The state is on the verge of political collapse.

FYI Pakistan is the main route fighters take when going to support the Taliban.

If you don't want to go to Pakistan how about here? (http://www.virgingalactic.com/)

[nonperson]

Anon, I think nonperson is suggesting that a majority of Americans are right-wing, especially regarding the "War on Terror", and the Army reflects that.

I had to look it up in Wikipedia, but "Pakistan" is "Land of the Pure" in Urdu. I knew it was an acronym (Punjab, Afghan Province, Kashmir, Sind, and BaluchiSTAN), but I didn't know the word had another meaning.

Or land of peace. Pakistan has always been an abstract concept. That is why the state lacks an organic legitimacy.

[Ill eagle]

Any? Was the Fort Hood shooting (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fort_Hood_shooting)honorable?

now that's just effed up (http://www.cnn.com/2009/CRIME/11/06/fort.hood.shootings.victims/)

[pesquisa]

now that's just effed up (http://www.cnn.com/2009/CRIME/11/06/fort.hood.shootings.victims/)

Yeah it gets me more outraged than Manning getting a lot of alone time.

[OrionzRevenge]

Poor little fella, I bet he begs and pleads incessantly to be released into the GenPop where he could enjoy the Esprit de corps of his fellow soldiers (Many with anger management issues).

[MoneyJungle]

When you escaped did you take the Los Angeles underground as a soldier of fortune?


:lol:

When my time was up I was begging them to put me back in (not unlike my birth*). Honestly, military prison was some of the easiest months of my adult life. How I miss the basketball and my non-job folding bedsheets. I still look back it fondly to this day (so much time to read).

*this paranthetical reference brought to you by the seminal film Look Who's Talking.

[nonperson]

Poor little fella, I bet he begs and pleads incessantly to be released into the GenPop where he could enjoy the Esprit de corps of his fellow soldiers (Many with anger management issues).

The population of most military prisons in the West is made of up rear echelon troops, store clerks, comms' bods etc. You can bet anybody in the glass house/stockade from a teeth unit will be seriously unpleasant. Yet the latter will probably have a highly developed sense of loyalty if not to his country at least to those he fought with and similar. So somebody caught leaking state secrets putting fighting men at risk........

[nonperson]

When my time was up I was begging them to put me back in (not unlike my birth*). Honestly, military prison was some of the easiest months of my adult life. How I miss the basketball and my non-job folding bedsheets. I still look back it fondly to this day (so much time to read).


Prison is like sex, you are not suppose to enjoy it. :p

[MoneyJungle]

Prison is like sex, you are not suppose to enjoy it. :p

Prison is like sex. I'll pay for it for the rest of my life.

[jyng1]

23 hours a day lockdown is pretty standard for high and maxi prisoners. Under UN conventions it's not torture.

Generally they're locked up so they don't kill each other... that might apply to Manning as he's likely to be a victim in prison.

[nonperson]

Prison is like sex. I'll pay for it for the rest of my life.

Is that sex by surprise or a Swedish shag as we in my circle have now termed it.

[elimford]

I'm on the government's side for the first time on this one. The information that was put out on WikiLeaks had the names of a lot of Iraqi's who cooperated with the US and in some circumstances helped us, now they're names are out there for the world to see, and the terrorists to find.

Double edged sword - We should know about all this, but sometimes it's safer not to.

[mgb]

So, the man knowingly commits treason against his government, gets caught and is arrested and imprisoned. Now, because he's in prison, it's torture?

This thread should come with a boy who cried wolf disclaimer at the top.

Nevermind the millions of inmates currently being "tortured" by the US prison system. :eyeroll: And what about David Berkowitz? He's been tortured for years now, where is his thread?

[nonperson]

Prison labour is big business in the US. :yes:

[rhuarch]

I find myself with an odd juxtaposition of ideals on this issue. On the one hand I support at least the idea of wiki-leaks or something like it. The Government should be afraid to keep secrets unless it absolutely has to. On the other hand what pte Manning did was unquestionably illegal. There is no way around it, and how the government is responding (at least where pte Manning is concerned) is well withing it's purview. So while I support the idea of an entity like wiki-leaks, and even what pte Manning did, I don't support the particular way wiki-leaks handled the information it got, and see what's happening to Manning as part of the risk he took in doing what he (hopefully) believed to be the right thing. Civil disobedience is a form of protest fraught with risk, but it's that very risk that legitimizes it as an effective form of protest. If Manning has an ounce of cunning, when he finally gets his day in court he should play this as civil disobedience. It won't get him off, but he had no hope of that in the first place. What it will do though is make him a folk hero to everyone in the pro transparency/leaks camp. At this point I think that's really the best he can hope for. Just to finish this thing with some dignity in tact.

[dubbeltop]

Pvt. Manning tortured for seven months by U.S. gov

Pvt manning is just part of a bigger disobedience within the militairy.

Many officers are also interested in the truth and restore the dignity of the US army.

The United States army is like a country in itself and its is currently ruled by people who are interested in profits instead of defending their country.

IE: private manning is not the problem but the current brass. It looks like some thai or indonesian style of mindset has taken over the United States top army officials.

This is nothing new because the army is way overfunded, this leads to a wrong culture.

But instead of being punished it is being condoned by the highest officials.

They even insult the president.

If you read the news papers you know this army is ready to take over the country in a right wing coup if it wasnt for the bribes flowing there way.

Greed is good but lets leave that to Wall Street.

[Architectonic]

If Manning has an ounce of cunning, when he finally gets his day in court he should play this as civil disobedience.

I'm willing to bet that Manning had a history of depression. He can claim all sorts of motivations for this. His actions were definitely illegal, but the point of this thread is whether his treatment in custody has been just..

[jyng1]

I'm willing to bet that Manning had a history of depression. He can claim all sorts of motivations for this. His actions were definitely illegal, but the point of this thread is whether his treatment in custody has been just..

I think if you were wondering if his treatment in prison was just then the answer wouldn't be complete without debating whether incarceration itself was just. As a fairly new form of punishment, it has some rather dubious statistics: such as not reducing recidivism, increasing the rate of reoffending etc...

Under UN conventions on the humane treatment of prisoners, you can keep someone like Pvt Manning in the naughty room for 23 hours a day, and only let him see the sky for an hour.... Here are a version of the rules: http://www2.ohchr.org/english/law/treatmentprisoners.htm

A mantra for Corrections Officers in civilian prisons is that they are not there to punish prisoners... the courts did that... Military prisons however are a different beast and often have a variety of sentences, from the short sharp shock to longer term incarceration similar to a civilian prison.

[starjots]

Pentagon Papers Leaker: 'I was Bradley Manning' (http://www.cnn.com/2011/US/03/19/wikileaks.ellsberg.manning/index.html?hpt=T2)

[Harion]

i think the INTP would do well in solitary confinement. i'm used to sleeping on a hard, cold floor. wouldn't make much of a difference in prison. i've slept in a room as small as cupboard for about a month while on my internship. i can go for a year without social interaction aside from the perfunctory ones needed to survive. as long as there's no beating or physical torture involved, that kind of solitary confinement is easy life for a crime such as treason.