digital piano / keyboard recommendations?

[aelan]

with the number of musical people on the board, was hoping someone could help with recommending a digital keyboard/piano, or at least a list of considerations and price ranges, i got lost with all the online reviews?

Some things I'd want:


One with a richer, realistic piano sound, and a good keyboard feel - something weighted and responsive to touch/pressure (similar to an actual piano). Have tried some where the keys sound the same no matter the pressure you give it, don't like those.

Full 88 keys preferred

ideally it should be able to play on its own, without having to be hooked to a PC/laptop. I read some reviews online where some keyboards cannot play without being hooked up - how do i tell apart which can standalone?

ability to layer sounds / record voice and playing together would be great. (tempted to start singing/playing together, yes)

as light as possible...

I'd be using it mainly to play a mix of light classical, jazz, pop/singing pieces.

what's a fair price range to pay?

what other factors should i take note of?



If anyone can offer advice / recommend keyboards I should look at, would be appreciated. thanks

[starjots]

In the US I think you are looking at $500 to $2500 and up with a lot of different brands/models at the various price points.

Personally I went with a Casio PX330 for $700 (lower end) based mostly on value and weight (25 pounds), the PX130 runs $500 with fewer features and smaller speakers. I think these models meet your criteria except the one for recording voice and piano together.

Besides reviews and plinking away at music stores (frankly I suck), the Piano World forums have a slew of digital piano technophiles who endlessly debate the finer points of such things. There were other models that were of great interest, but ultimately I realized spending more would be a waste of money in my particular case.

[asperger]

Everyone is different but it's my opinion that the touch responsiveness of the keys is very important. If you are not planning to learn to play a real piano it doesn't need to be just like a real piano or graded. But a halfway decent simulation will make it ever so much easier and pleasant to learn to play expressively. It's been a while since I looked at prices but I'd guess in the $2000 range. A few years ago Roland was making models with very good touch. I have a Yamaha S90 synth with a couple of very pleasant piano voices. I find its touch quite acceptable for someone like me who has 10 thumbs.

• 88 keys and good touch and as light as possible...

It aint gona be light if you get the first two, both of which are important IMO.

•ideally it should be able to play on its own, without having to be hooked to a PC/laptop. I read some reviews online where some keyboards cannot play without being hooked up - how do i tell apart which can standalone?

Those would be called MIDI controllers not pianos.

•ability to layer sounds / record voice and playing together would be great. (tempted to start singing/playing together, yes)

That's a "work station" attribute and you've just added at least another 750 to a grand to the price -- I would think.

[composer]

I have a

Doepfer keyboard (pure MIDI) (http://www.doepfer.de/pk88.htm)

with Macbook Pro running

Ivory Sampled Bosie (http://www.synthogy.com/demos/grandpiano.html)

some nice studio monitors (not too expensive, maybe $300), and miscellaneous such as the MIDI-USB in, a real piano bench, stands, etc. Total cost is around $4k-$5k maybe, cheaper than my $30k grand and doesn't need tuning! If you already have a decent computer you can do it for less than $1k.

I use it for practicing classical music late at night. Probably the best digital setup you can get. The action is much like a real action (kinda-sorta, nothing comes close to a real Renner.)

The problem with your criterion is wanting good sound and no computer hookup. You have to pick one or the other in IMO.

[aelan]

ahh. thanks asperger, starjots, shall look up those models and brands mentioned and do a price comparison here if they're available.

will have to walk into the shops to feel it itself.

i'm used to a real piano feel, hence i've always found the touch of a digital not as tactile - not sure how to describe.

composer -

i wasn't aware i needed a computer to be hooked up for the sound always - where i was coming from was, there're some midi controllers which are like a keyboard extension literally, they cannot be played standalone? i'm wanting something that i can choose to hook up to a laptop if i want more serious synthesizing, or if i just want to play like a piano on other times, without having to turn on the PC just to play.

shites, the synthology one sounds good, albeit a bit too bright for a grand(?). the lower registers sound better than the middle range somehow.

Edit: Anyone tried the MAudio 88 Prokeys: http://www.m-audio.com/products/en_us/ProKeys88.html

[composer]

i wasn't aware i needed a computer to be hooked up for the sound always - where i was coming from was, there're some midi controllers which are like a keyboard extension literally!

Yes I understand, I'm saying that if you want a good touch and good sound, you won't find that in a standalone keyboard, you need sampled libraries for that. Having a computer isn't a burden, the Macbook Pro sleeps, and with the press of a key it's awake and playing quicker than it takes me to get the cover off the grand, prop the lid and raise the fallboard. As for portability, any 88 key keyboard is big and heavy enough that transporting around a few extra bits won't matter much.

Take a look at those Doepfers, there's a US distributor, they use Fatar actions and are the best I could find. They have ones which are standalone as you wish, that can also MIDI-out to a laptop if you want to upgrade later.

[asperger]

Virtually every digital piano with decent touch is going to have midi out so adding an external sampled piano on laptop is always possible with these. Yamaha makes a couple decent portables that include built in speakers, so it's all in one. As usual it all depends on your specific needs. BTW if you do plan to go back and forth between a real piano and a digital, graded action is desirable. Otherwise its more encomberance than asset, IMO.

[asperger]

Edit: Anyone tried the MAudio 88 Prokeys: http://www.m-audio.com/products/en_us/ProKeys88.html

No. But the feature / cost looks very good. On the otherhand I've had two peices of M-Audio gear that didnt' hold up all that well. Still if you are not sure how serious you are and don't want to get in too deep too quick this or something like it might be right.

[Pan]

Haven't looked in a few years, but imo you're not going to go too far wrong with either Yamaha or Korg. Both have decent feel and on-board piano sounds. As for sequencing capabilities, I have no clue since I don't use those, but I suspect most keyboards will have sufficient basic capabilities for some toodling about - and if you want to delve further than that you'll probably want to use a computer anyway.

One other thing you might want to consider is the volume of the onboard speakers - though if you're playing with a group you're probably going to need an amp anyway.

Oh, and be prepared to make some kind of trade-off between portability and touch - weighted full keyboards only come so small...

[composer]

No. But the feature / cost looks very good. On the otherhand I've had two peices of M-Audio gear that didnt' hold up all that well. Still if you are not sure how serious you are and don't want to get in too deep too quick this or something like it might be right.

M-audio is pretty cheap stuff, recommend staying away.

[aelan]

thanks all, very helpful suggestions and tips.

shall use the next couple of weekends to hunt around and test out actual keyboards. I've difficulty without feeling the real thing.

i'd probably trade portability for feel. Wasn't so much portability i wanted, more that i had no space for a full piano in my apartment.