Don't be selfish; vote green

[jetboots]

According to me, all political conundrums have one source: people's selfishness.

In most democratic countries there is a few defaults (pardon the huge generalizations):

1) the Right-wing (pro business and privatization)
2) the leftish group (pro health and education)
3) the environmental centerish group (Green party most of the time)
4) all the others, but they are beside the point and usually push the acceptance of one idea, mainly for publicity, not to actually get voted in

When these 4 generalize points become generalized, the new questions to ask are the following four:

- Are you going to vote for a popular (selfish) issue? (ie. is business important to YOU, is education for YOUR kids going to sway your vote?)

- Are you going to make a statement by voting for the superunderdogs to push an underappreciated idea?

- Are you going to vote against a party rather than for a party?

- Are you going to look at the big picture and vote for the party that will make things harder, but better in the long run? (Green / Environmental )

When it comes down to it, voting for the environment is the only vote that isn’t based on a personal agenda. As important as work in your area may be, or your parent's health care, humanity's next challenge is to overcome these microcosmic views and see zoomed out.

[meshou]

According to me, all political cunundrums have one source: people's selfishness.

In most democratic countries there is a few defaults (pardon the huge generizations):

1) the Right-wing (pro business and privitization)
2) the leftish group (pro health and education)
3) the environmental centerish group (Green party most of the time)
4) all the others, but they are beside the point and usually push the acceptance of one idea, mainly for publicity, not to actually get voted in

When these 4 generalize points become generalized, the new questions to ask are the following four:

- Are you going to vote for a popular (selfish) issue? (ie. is bussiness important to YOU, is education for YOUR kids going to sway your vote?)

- Are you going to make a statement by voting for the superunderdogs to push an underappriciated idea?

- Are you going to vote against a party rather than for a party?

- Are you going to look at the big picture and vote for the party that will make things harder, but better in the long run? (Green / Environmental )

When it comes down to it, voting for the environment is the only vote that is't based on a personal adgenda. As import as work in your area may be, or your parent's health care, humanity's next challange is to overcome these microcosmic views and see zoomed out.
OK, tell me this-- why is selfish a bad thing?

If I have kids, and am not selfish about demanding the government give them a good and fair education, I may end up with uneducated children.

If I am not selfish and do not vote against candidates that advocate taking away civil liberties, then I will have more taken away.

If I am not selfish and don't vote for people who advocate better environmental laws, my children will not have a place to live.

It is selfish to believe that I know better than 99% of voters out there, and to believe that the party I want in office is better than the parties they vote into office, and yet I still do.

The Green Party not appealing to the voter doesn't make them a better political party, it makes them one that doesn't get elected. It makes them one with good intentions, but which never does what it takes to get elected and actually do something.

Now, this coming from a libertarian. But we never claimed to be selfless. We just claimed to want to make life better.

[kafkaesque]

What environment are we to save? for whom?
We want the environment to be a nice place for us to live.
Voting for the environment is just as self-motivated as the other options proposed.

[jetboots]

OK, tell me this-- why is selfish a bad thing?




Well that is a pretty good question. By being "selfish" one is not really being "bad", its definitly something that takes some time wrapping your head around and definitly one of the ways that capitalism keeps a tight wrap around this modern society.

Keep in mind that my "selfish" conclusion is after making some really extreme generizations, and it is what logically came about from my initial assumptions.

I'm not advocating that Green is the best thing ever (mind you I do vote for them), but I am saying that in the big picture I think that make a lot of sense.

[jetboots]

What environment are we to save? for whom?
We want the environment to be a nice place for us to live.
Voting for the environment is just as self-motivated as the other options proposed.

That I don't agree with. Who are we saving the environment for? Well its not for ME, it's fundamentally for everyone.

[SensEye]

I've never really paid attention to any Green Party's agenda. I gather they will look out for the environment, but what is their position on all the other things that people worry about (taxes, economy, health care, education, etc. etc.)?

I've always figured they are a one trick pony who never expects to form a government, and thus have never formed a platform on the broader issues. I'm too lazy/disinterested to research further though.

[Robespierre]

That I don't agree with. Who are we saving the environment for? Well its not for ME, it's fundamentally for everyone.

Then why the need to use violence, in the form of governments(voting, laws, etc), to secure that environment? Perhaps not everyone agrees with your idea of what the best environment looks like?

[meshou]

Well that is a pretty good question. By being "selfish" one is not really being "bad", its definitly something that takes some time wrapping your head around and definitly one of the ways that capitalism keeps a tight wrap around this modern society.

Keep in mind that my "selfish" conclusion is after making some really extreme generizations, and it is what logically came about from my initial assumptions.

I'm not advocating that Green is the best thing ever (mind you I do vote for them), but I am saying that in the big picture I think that make a lot of sense.
See, I think capitalism is the best system available.

I believe that denying people choice is the root of everything I'd call evil.

I believe that money is a way of allowing people to choose what they do and don't believe is valuable.

That's not to say I am not scared by the future. I read adbusters, and subscribe to its philosophy-- ads narrow the range of ideas, that there are fewer and fewer corporations having a say in what ideas get out is disturbing.

However, I think the evil is limited as long as there is more than one source of information. As long as they have to give people what they want, and there are competing messages about what one should want, it won't be Orwell.

Plus, I've been kicking around the idea of a sentient corporation. But that's a ramble for another time.

[jetboots]

I've never really paid attention to any Green Party's agenda. I gather they will look out for the environment, but what is their position on all the other things that people worry about (taxes, economy, health care, education, etc. etc.)?

I've always figured they are a one trick pony who never expects to form a government, and thus have never formed a platform on the broader issues. I'm too lazy/disinterested to research further though.

Well I would say that they did start off as what you speak of, but they do have a good overall platform now.

As a side note, in Germany, the Green Party has a huge share of seats and is part of a coalition government there and have pushed important issues there.

[mgb]

I've never really paid attention to any Green Party's agenda. I gather they will look out for the environment, but what is their position on all the other things that people worry about (taxes, economy, health care, education, etc. etc.)?

I've always figured they are a one trick pony who never expects to form a government, and thus have never formed a platform on the broader issues. I'm too lazy/disinterested to research further though.

Actually, the rest of their platform is quite libertarian. Even their environmental ideas are quite libertarian, tax breaks for helping protect the environment rather than higher taxes for those polluting it.

My first election I voted for the Natural Law party (http://www.answers.com/main/ntquery;jsessionid=1hhx8lpbovut8?tname=natural-law-party-of-canada&curtab=2222_1&hl=natural&hl=law&hl=party&sbid=lc01a). I was in Preston Mannings riding and my vote wouldn't count for shit, so I made it count as one of 120 people that voted for the Natural Law Party. Last election I voted Green, but felt I should have voted NDP, I like their stance on First Nations Issues, at least more than the others.

[jetboots]

See, I think capitalism is the best system available.

I believe that denying people choice is the root of everything I'd call evil.

I believe that money is a way of allowing people to choose what they do and don't believe is valuable.

That's not to say I am not scared by the future. I read adbusters, and subscribe to its philosophy-- ads narrow the range of ideas, that there are fewer and fewer corporations having a say in what ideas get out is disturbing.

However, I think the evil is limited as long as there is more than one source of information. As long as they have to give people what they want, and there are competing messages about what one should want, it won't be Orwell.

Plus, I've been kicking around the idea of a sentient corporation. But that's a ramble for another time.

I agree with pretty much all of what you said there, but I think that in many ways we think we have choice when we actually don't. Sure technically we do, but realistically meh...that'd be a long conversation. I think that there are too many people who just don't bother looking at consiquences of the agendas that they push. That is what I define as "selfish".

[Jacque]

Perhaps not everyone agrees with your idea of what the best environment looks like?

Unless they pulled out the Crayola box, invested in sheet of paper, and have it framed in magnets, I doubt that very many would have even a sketchy idea on the subject. It has to marketed through politics, so let the arrogant deranged man speak. I kinda like "Green" storytelling. ;)

[crule81]

I voted for a Green Party candidate once because he was the only one running against an incumbant I could not stand. I would have voted communist if that was the only other option.

Otherwise, I would never vote for the Green Party because I dislike Ralph Nader and I like fast cars and driving.