Disk partitioning

[Elro]

What exactly does it mean, and how can it be used?

Specifically, I'm interested in knowing if it can be used to backup files before a disk format. A friend of mine has managed to screw up his system, and will have to reinstall completely. However, my idea is to make a new disk partition and move all of his personal files onto it, then clear the old partition and reinstall the OS there. Would this work? Would the backed-up files be accessible through the new OS install?

Obviously, I don't know a lot about partitioning; only ran across it by accident some time ago, but it seems like it would work in theory.. Was just wondering how plausible it would be.

[philonightmare]

I always thought you could only create separate partitions on a single computer, but not share those partitions with other systems. Maybe on a network you could transfer files, but then would you really even need to deal with partitions? Why not just make a copy of everything and transfer later on?

AFAIK, yes, a disk partition can be used to save backup files before a disk format. Of course, I could be wrong about this. Wait for someone with "credentials" to give you advice. I wouldn't trust me on this. :)

[garak]

Disk partitioning is always used, it's just that on most computers sold, there's only a single partition. Generally you set up your partition layout when you start clean on a given drive, but there are special tools that let you resize "live" partitions, like partition magic. But it costs money (or you can pirate it). Generally it's a good idea to have different partitions for the OS and for your own stuff. And yeah, the partition would be accessible after the reinstall, assuming you don't do something dumb like write over it.

philonightmare, I don't even think he was talking about multiple machines. :P

Also, I'm pretty sure with windows you can reinstall without wiping everything out. It'll do a "repair" install or something like that. .. I think.

[philonightmare]

philonightmare, I don't even think he was talking about multiple machines. :P

Also, I'm pretty sure with windows you can reinstall without wiping everything out. It'll do a "repair" install or something like that. .. I think.

Ah, I misunderstood his words. I think it's getting close to my bedtime.:zombie:

[Elro]

Also, I'm pretty sure with windows you can reinstall without wiping everything out. It'll do a "repair" install or something like that. .. I think.
Yep, but already tried that, and it still didn't boot. That's why they're considering formatting it. Anyway, I'll see what I can do about partitioning it.. Better to have files that might not be accessible than not have the files at all. I thought there was a program you could use through DOS to partition, though. Hrm. Must look about more.

[SheepDog]

changing the partition will probably remove all chance of accessing the data. A tool like partition magic may or may not work, depending on the situation.

My solution would be to spend $50 on a new hard drive, and rebuild the o/s using the new drive. Then when the box is up and working, add the old drive as a slave, and copy the data off the old drive and onto the new one. It's less risky, relatively cheap, and more likely to work. I've done this several times, as recently as a couple weeks ago.

[Elro]

I had never heard of Partition Magic, actually. I was looking at FIPS (http://www.igd.fhg.de/~aschaefe/fips/), although the same problems may apply.

I have a laptop with plenty of extra space, though. Is it possible just to hook it up to the dead computer via USB and somehow send the desired files to the laptop using DOS? Then after formatting and reinstalling the OS, theoretically I could send the files back.. Not sure if there are drivers required for this that one of the computers doesn't have.

Edit: heck, this latter technique just sounds like networking, though unfortunately I have little knowledge on it.

[SheepDog]

I'm assuming this is an IDE drive, so in that case, the laptop wouldn't work (or would be a big pain), but another desktop probably would. You're adding the network piece to it, which isn't a bit deal once you know it.

Is there a reason why a new hard drive is not a desirable option?

[Elro]

Is there a reason why a new hard drive is not a desirable option?

Even $50 is a considerable amount to me. $20 I might be all right with, but anything more is probably more than I'd be willing to spend.

They don't have another desktop, and the only extra one I have is not in much better condition than the computer in question.

Why would the laptop be difficult yet a desktop work fine?

[SheepDog]

Why would the laptop be difficult yet a desktop work fine?
Different connectors.

[YardGnome]

Get yourself a copy of partition magic (excellent piece of software IMO), partition a decent 1GB or so chuck of space, install the OS on the newly partitioned space and Viola... (Hopefully...)

[melancholeric]

Get yourself a copy of partition magic (excellent piece of software IMO), partition a decent 1GB or so chuck of space, install the OS on the newly partitioned space and Viola... (Hopefully...)
1 GB may not be enough, depending on the OS. I have 3 GB for win98 and it's not exactly too much. I had to put the swap file to another partition because I ran out of space at that partition.

I suspect later windows versions would require more. What OS are you installing there?

[YardGnome]

1 GB may not be enough, depending on the OS. I have 3 GB for win98 and it's not exactly too much. I had to put the swap file to another partition because I ran out of space at that partition.

I suspect later windows versions would require more. What OS are you installing there?

Alright then... 3GB for good measure...

Then again if 1GB is not enough you could always make it bigger w/ partition magic...

[shaytana]

What exactly does it mean, and how can it be used?

Specifically, I'm interested in knowing if it can be used to backup files before a disk format. A friend of mine has managed to screw up his system, and will have to reinstall completely. However, my idea is to make a new disk partition and move all of his personal files onto it, then clear the old partition and reinstall the OS there. Would this work? Would the backed-up files be accessible through the new OS install?

Obviously, I don't know a lot about partitioning; only ran across it by accident some time ago, but it seems like it would work in theory.. Was just wondering how plausible it would be.

You can use a program like Partition Magic to make a partition on a live drive, usually it is best to create the partitions on a clean drive, wipe them both but PM should work, I have done it a few times.

I would make your C drive at least 5 gigs. I used 5 for a couple years but I kept filling that up too quickly and I am using 10 now with no worries about space. I don't like to have to worry about things like that.

If creating the partition fails then install the OS on another HD (this time setup the partitions during the Windows XP install), set the old hd up as a slave and save what ever you can that way.

[Claverhouse]

a/ Apart from which OS, which file-system ?

b/ Avoid Partition Magic like the plague. Apart from really fouling up stuff, they have only a 3-month service, after that you have to pay to find out where they screwed up. Even if they don't know. After that you need good recovery tools.

c/ Umm. OS one partition/Data another sounds good. BUT if things go wrong then generally the only accessible drive ( partition ) seen by the recovery tools is the C:/ drive; particularly if say, the master-boot-record is damaged. If lucky the other files are all there, but not shown as belonging to a particular drive ( partition ).

So my PII has an 80GB HD partitioned with the HD manufacturer's tools downloaded beforehand from their site ( if you buy a complete boxed HD it should come with these tools on a CD ) divided into 12 partitions each of less than 8GB.
C: Win98SE with Win98Lite to slim it and the unofficial updates etc.
D: Images, E: Games, F: Various, G: Websites downloaded, H: Applications, I:, J:, K:, L: Swapfile, M:, N: Store ( download etc. installation exes ).

Most is unused so far, until I get another computer and move over to Linux; and I want to keep the C: as clear as possible for speed, so virtually everything goes in F: Various under a byzantine arrangement of subdivisions. So I would keep my writing stuff there, nu ?

No way. If it's irreplacable, put it on the C: Drive.

d/ It's not much use making vital back-ups on the same hard-disk. Yes, you should do this in case files get screwed. But don't imagine it will help in the least if the HD gets screwed.




Claverhouse :ph34r:

[shaytana]

Alright then... 3GB for good measure...

Then again if 1GB is not enough you could always make it bigger w/ partition magic...

It's been about 6 months since I formatted and my Windows directory is already 2 gigs. How can you possibly survive on a 1 Gig C drive?

[shaytana]

You can use a program like Partition Magic to make a partition on a live drive, usually it is best to create the partitions on a clean drive, wipe them both but PM should work, I have done it a few times.

I would make your C drive at least 5 gigs. I used 5 for a couple years but I kept filling that up too quickly and I am using 10 now with no worries about space. I don't like to have to worry about things like that.

If creating the partition fails then install the OS on another HD (this time setup the partitions during the Windows XP install), set the old hd up as a slave and save what ever you can that way.


Actually I take this back, teach me not to read everything. Obviously if you can't boot up you can't install Partition Magic.

I still stand by the 5 Gigs at least though.

[melancholeric]

Actually I take this back, teach me not to read everything. Obviously if you can't boot up you can't install Partition Magic.

I still stand by the 5 Gigs at least though.
He would need a DOS boot floppy with Fdisk and format. I think Partition Magic could be installed after creating one partition, right?

[Claverhouse]

Yep, but already tried that, and it still didn't boot. That's why they're considering formatting it. Anyway, I'll see what I can do about partitioning it.. Better to have files that might not be accessible than not have the files at all. I thought there was a program you could use through DOS to partition, though. Hrm. Must look about more.
FDisk. But it's not much fun.

Read everything you can about it before using this tool. And remember that if there's a possible way to erase all files, partition tools will use that.

This is the best site to read up on partitions and a lot more:

RADIFIED (http://fdisk.radified.com/)



Claverhouse :ph34r:

[Claverhouse]

FDisk. But it's not much fun.

Read everything you can about it before using this tool. And remember that if there's a possible way to erase all files, partition tools will use that.

This is the best site to read up on partitions and a lot more:

RADIFIED (http://fdisk.radified.com/)



Claverhouse :ph34r:

EDIT: That's the partitioning page. For those unable to navigate upwards, the main page is here: RADIFIED (http://radified.com/index2.html) (Top ).

[SheepDog]

If creating the partition fails then install the OS on another HD (this time setup the partitions during the Windows XP install), set the old hd up as a slave and save what ever you can that way.
Depending on how it fails. If it fails by overwriting the data, then the data is gone. That's why I suggested the other HD as the first choice.

[SheepDog]

FDisk. But it's not much fun.

FDisk will clobber the data, but does a fine job with partitions. ;)

[YardGnome]

Actually I take this back, teach me not to read everything. Obviously if you can't boot up you can't install Partition Magic.

I still stand by the 5 Gigs at least though.

I forget, haven't used it in a while, but I was under the impression that you could boot right to the partition magic cd assuming you have a BIOS that supports this, then again if not you could use a boot disk like melancholeric said...


Depending on how it fails. If it fails by overwriting the data, then the data is gone. That's why I suggested the other HD as the first choice.

I thought it was already ruled out that he couldn't use an alternate drive. It's a laptop drive.

[pavel_lishin]

I'm taking up about 7 gig on this drive, but that includes the entire windows directory and program files (including everything I've thrown at it.)

On my desktop, I have a dedicated hard drive (20g) for my OS. That way, if I get bored with windows, I copy my Desktop over to another drive to make sure I have a backup of it, and then nuke the drive. Don't have to worry about partitions, or much of anything except hard drive failure.

[Nighthawk]

I've always had decent luck with Partition Magic, but it's not foolproof. It is possible to use their boot disk, then their partition disk, to shrink the data partition (assuming there is enough empty space) and stick a new boot partition in front of it ... then load the new operating sytem. I wouldn't recommend trying something like that however, as your first attempt with the product. As Claverhouse stated, it is fairly easy to blow away all your data if you make a mistake.

The easiest and safest method, IMHO, is to get another hard drive for the operating system and use the original as a slave after you've created the new OS. Partition magic would probably cost about as much as a small new hard drive.

[Snowflake]

This is why I have a file server.

If I want to backup, I can just image the directories I want to backup, and copy them over to the server via the network. I don't have to deal with partitions, and I have a central storage location for all my data, accessible from anywhere on my network, and via VPN access (via my Smoothwall firewall).

[SheepDog]

I thought it was already ruled out that he couldn't use an alternate drive. It's a laptop drive.
The drive to be salvaged is a desktop, as I understand it. Mounting it on a laptop was ruled out.


The easiest and safest method, IMHO, is to get another hard drive for the operating system and use the original as a slave after you've created the new OS. Partition magic would probably cost about as much as a small new hard drive.
Bingo.