Student POV

[Star Cannon]

I an INTP female student. I am a sophomore in a highschool with three grades. I see alot of people get very weary of learning. I don't agree with them. I observe that a lot of people sit with thier cliques. I also note that my Pre-AP English class sports a lot of people who consider themselves Christian -- a waste considering their intellect allows them to get into a Pre AP class. Why do women allow themselves to be controlled by the dogmas of a patriach religion? Its so irrational! So ganat lyrin eviditar!!! (A great lack of learning -- i.e: Highly STUPID)

Does anyone agree?

Star Cannon

[Avengardh]

I agree.
From my experience, I have not only encountered Christians but also Mormons.

From what I have seen, most of them are raised that way. My best friend who recently got married (she was 20) is a Mormon, and she was sooo good at math and science that it was such a waste to me when she told me she wasn't pursuing anything like that...I was enfuriated by the talent the world lost...

One of her roomates gave me a Book of Mormon, I think that she thought I would make a good Mormon (I don't drink, smoke, etc) and was trying to "take me in"; but I don't have a religion, and I plan to keep it that way for some lifetimes.

Personally, I could go to College forever, and I would not mind.

~*Aven*~

[Birnam]

*grins* well, this isn't exactly a woman's only topic, but ... :)


I also note that my Pre-AP English class sports a lot of people who consider themselves Christian -- a waste considering their intellect allows them to get into a Pre AP class.

Are you saying that to be a christian is a waste of talent? (I don't understand your reasoning ...) There ARE some people who think that just because someone is a girl they shouldn't be smart, or take an active role in the thinking world (that also goes for the girls themselves, of course). But those people aren't limited to christianity. (:) you might want to clarify what you ment by what you said, or I'll just start going off on tangents.)


I think that she thought I would make a good Mormon (I don't drink, smoke, etc)

heh, if all being a good Mormon took was not smoking or drinking... :D
The two are not really related- there are good mormons who smoke and drink, and there are people who do neither, yet wouldn't make a good mormon at all.

[Avengardh]

I added the etc. because she had been reading my lj for a while, it wasn't only that. I think more than anything it was the way I said I viewed life.

I dunno about Mormons smoking or drinking and being good...I only know this from my best friend's view, and in her and her parents' view it's not looked at as following rules. But like I said, I don't have that knowledge, and I can't really make any judgements based on that, just give out the info I already have.

[Birnam]

sorry if it sounded like I was attacking you Aven- I was just trying to be funny..

I'll try and expound on what I ment-- Technically in mormonisim smoking etc. is considered a sin, and so obviously someone who does those things isn't "following the rules". But no one can follow all of them, and smoking, drinking etc. are 'sins' that don't really matter in the large scheme of things. I think it would be better to have a 'sin' like that than something else that lies deeper. An example is a friend of mine whose husband looked to be the 'Perfect Mormon' in public- but at home he was a physiologically deranged tyrant.

I guess what I'm trying to say is- the outside aspect of religion is overrated- some people judge others by what they see on the outside rather than what is in their hearts. This applies to everyone, not just mormons- people who commit the 'sin' of being abnormally dressed or smelling funny are considered losers by the general public- but that means nothing when it comes right down to it.

again, sorry for spouting :) and for hijacking your thread Star Cannon...

[Avengardh]

Oh man, first of all let me apologize if I sounded weird or anything, there were no problems here at all, like I said I was just basing what I said with what I knew (which is just what my best friend told me and some other people).

So, no worries whatsoever, and yeah, sorry Star if we ended derailing the thread...we didn't meant to, honest ^_^

~*Aven*~

[Birnam]

:D lol, here we are trying to apologize to eachother... I don't have any problems either (my post was just giving you more info, along with my opinion).

:º)



meanwhile, back on the ranch ....

[Slider]

I consider myself a Christian. Why exactly is it a waste again? I don't quite understand.

Sounds like you're bitter about something and need someone/something to blame.

[Star Cannon]

Meow. No harm done.

I'll elaborate. I think the thing of Faith in a Christian God that contradicts 'himself' is completely obsurd. When I have no other explanation for the way things happen, then I must think of one. When I have let logic and intuition run it course, of course I can decide that faith would better serve me. But these people don't even question and let reason test the faith they consider themselves!
That is why I think it is a waste of talent. Why bother to that way when you can make a universal truth base don reason and not the pope's bigotry?

But I've derailed my own thread now. Oh well.

Star Cannon

[Slider]

how have you derailed your own thread? you're still on topic . . .

could you maybe provide some examples for your claims?

D'you think a non-Christian God that contradicts 'himself' is not completely absurd? or is your ranting strictly relegated to Christianity?

And could you also clarify wot talent you're talking about? It's a wee bit unclear to me. You should probably address that problem, too, if you plan to major in English.

[Birnam]

If someone is so blind as to not question what they are told, they have no *talent*- but are only good at following directions- they may get the problems correct, but where is their vision?

:D I'll give you an example- I was a teacher for a while at my church- and one six year old girl was brilliant (she was, I think an ENTJ). The lessons are structured to brainwash the kids (it's harsh, but true)- one of the things that were asked was: "how do you know it's true?" and the *right* answer would be "the holy spirit tells me" or some other such thing. But, this girl, when asked- was about to answer automatically, but then stopped and thought about it, and couldn't say. I felt very proud of her :) [lol, I was a bad teacher I think ;) ]

Without going into doctrine and other such stuff, the point I was trying to make was- that girl has enough brains to go on to do something with her life. She can question what other people tell her. If *she* wastes her talents, then that would be a tragedy. Where I wouldn't be half so worried about the failure of someone who doesn't have the sight to see through what people tell them.

(since you've derailed your own thread, I don't feel so bad about following... :) )

edit: I don't fully understand what you are trying to say in this sentence: "I think the thing of Faith in a Christian God that contradicts 'himself' is completely absurd." If you would expound?

edit2- hey look, 100 posts :)

[Slider]

Thanks, birnam, that makes sense. I have trouble following emotionally-charged writing; it is so often wanting for clarity.

Anyway, that's obviously a stupid thing to do, but I don't see how it's any different from the way other organizations work. Like the military, for instance. They're probably the same people who have 3.8 GPAs and only score a 22 on the ACT.

But wot's also stupid is making blanket statements.

[Star Cannon]

Obviously, this touches on one of my nerves.

I think I've explained myself thoroughly enough. But I think I've been arguing from a bad stand point also by not saying what I truely mean.

By:


I think the thing of Faith in a Christian God that contradicts 'himself' is completely obsurd.

I mean this: I don't think a text that contradicts itself is worth the faith that it's followers invest on it's behalf.
Faith as in the missionaries, blah blah blah, the obvious working on it's behalf.

In short, I don't think the people in my class have given their religion much thought. Sorry for that confusion, it's very hard for me to put my thoughts into words.

Star Cannon

[Birnam]

Ah, thank you :) I think I understand what you meant now.
I'll just repeat myself: If they truly do not have the wit to question what they are told, in religion and otherwise, I have no inclination to feel at all sorry for whatever they do to their lives.
There *are* people who have examined their religion, flaws and all; who take the entire thing very seriously. And those are the people I respect. (as far as religiously inclined people go- there are a lot of different ways I respect others :) )


slider- what about those people who have a 2.0 GPA and get a 36 on the ACT? :devil:
<not me, btw>

[Mnemosyne]

Speaking as someone with Christian parents, the Bible was not meant to be taken literally, which can be a hard concept for some people to grasp. You can be a Christian and question your faith, you can believe in evolution, or the big bang theory, or whatever. The Bible doesn't denounce scientific thought. It's supposed to give people a deeper understanding of their faith. Christians don't really kill children who disobey their parents. I should know, I wouldn't be here if they did. ;)

On topic, I don't know of any women who "allow themselves to be controlled by the dogmas of a patriarch religion." Except maybe Anne Bradstreet, and she's been dead, what? 400 years? I think most modern women can and do think for themselves. As for the cliques and unenthusiasm for learning, well, you can't help that. It is high school, after all. Just think though, another three years and you'll be done!