Question for the Art Inclined

[int]

And I use the term "art" loosely...drawers, sketchers, musicians, sculptors, fasion designers, commercial bathroom designers, etc.

Do you find limitations only help you to pursue your goals?

I have found that it's tough to design a website, write a song, code a program, write a story, layout an album, etc if I have a completely open pallette to take from. I'll be unable to decide where to start and 100,000 ideas wil float about. I'll have to start imposing limitations before anything gets done (ie "don't forget, so and so rushes as it is, slowing down will only be frustrating"; "client X wants to avoid the use of javascript because their clients are over paranoid"; "rewrite this poem without using the letters 'k,' 'p,' or 'h.'"). You get the idea.

Or maybe I'm just looking for mental roadblock to overcome (as in there are no mental roadblocks :) ).

[Google Monster]

I dispise limits. But without them I can't seem to ever reach my goal.

[Johnny]

Interesting. I was going to start a poll "Do you consider yourself a failure?" yesterday, but I gave up because as I was trying to kick off the thread I realized I wasn't really looking for a consensus on anything but just spewing and working out personal issues.:D

Do I impose limits on myself? Yes, but as with Enos, the limits have to do with not letting myself get sidetracked or distracted from the goal I'm trying to reach (e.g., setting a deadline and sticking to it no matter the results that come, working on a particular technical issue 30 min./day. etc.).

But then, to reward my preferred nature, I'll also schedule blocks of time with no limitations whatsoever. I make little to no progress on anything in this manner, but for some reason it feels quite nice... :sombrero:

[Sam172]

When I was forced into an artistic route in my academic studies I found no limitations to be good...just I had mental limitations and had trouble thinking outside the box.

Oh, and as a side note Johnny I think a thread like that would be good....just to see if it's not just me that thinks he's a failure :p

[file cabinet]

at work the best way I can get 'focused' and on task for my web programming/development job is to write things then cross them out after I've completed them.. I like that method the best.. using spreadsheets is irritating esp if I only want to line up little tasks. I've been trying out the whiteboard to write up small stuff but I think I need to use a better dry-erase marker.
I did some pixel art.. in fact my avatar is a pixel animation I did pixel by pixel / frame by frame. Although tedious, the limitations of pixel art is what makes it so appealing.
I've been doing a lot of Javascript lately and the limitations of it are what making it interesting except for crossbrowser crap(argh) but working with the DOM's and nodes has increased my interest of it mainly because I want to try and do some XUL apps at some point(XUL apps are usually recognized as Firefox extensions and so on..)
I disliking doing things that are extremely boring and extremely repetitive.. I don't like being told I have to setup an email / web account since I always have to do the same action when I do it... no variation.. no change.. just blah.
I would really like to get into music more.. making music specifically.. doing electronica or something with killer loops provided by a co-worker who can do drums/guitar(acoustic/electric)/keyboard.. mmmm.. I would want to mix up the loops and try various things..

[Avengardh]

Limitations suck...like when I am making a website and people just tell me to "make it simple" as in, white background, black arial text, and no pictures...what is that?? p.o

And then an art teacher telling you that you have to draw that can because it will help you later on...I wish I could just draw what I want instead of drawing still-life and landscapes...which is why I can't pursue an art degree...I would get pissed off.

But for me it's really just only the pressure of getting something done that makes my inspiration renew itself and then I can work...otherwise...I am just here...bumming about.

~*Aven*~

[file cabinet]

I took a drawing class and my main focus during that class was to develop my drawing style more as well as doing various exercises. I could draw anything but would I improve over time if I always drew what I wanted? or would I just draw that way over and over again? that is what the various exercises did .. they challenged my current drawing style so I was able to 'experiment' .. my drawing style is very 'loose' which probably negatively impacted me at the end of that semester.

[Melody]

I think the trouble I have with art is that I have no limits. I could work on a single drawing for a lifetime, and I seem to demand perfection. This has the side effect of not getting satisfaction from a "somewhat good" drawing. The best way I have found to counter this is to not aim for quality, but for other things such as humor or just plain nothing (scribbles.)

I think the still-life drawings are meant to improve one's artistic eye. Things such as shadow, texture, form, etc. I would probably get sick of drawing more than a few, though. Anyone who has seen my comic will take much note of how fast I get bored of particular styles.

[Avengardh]

I agree with Melody-dude, I understand the whole thing about drawing still-life...but there is so much still-life that I can actually stand...if at least a teacher would find more interesting things to draw than just dry leaves it would be a much different story.

I took Drawing I and my experience with it was horrible because my teacher did not set rules for everyone, she said something and I even went and talked to her to make sure that I had gotten what she wanted right, and so for my midterm I did just that. But on the day of the critique, several other people (ok, most of the class...) drew what they wanted and still got A's. That pissed me off...so on my final I drew what I wanted.

She told me that I was good with value and that it seemed to be a strong-point in my drawings...she also didn't believe I had drawn several drawings that I showed her one day..."you drew this? Wow..." so I really think it depends on the teacher. I still want to take some more classes, and even perhaps try painting, because I have never been able to. But math and science are more important to me right now ^.^

~*Aven*~

[int]

Yea, I do the wole task list, crossing things out as I go. It's my prefered method, next to a task list being emailed to me. We tried the whole spreadsheet list, but I found my name getting buried in the clutter and I prefer to keep my electronic docs very clean and relevant to me, of course. :)

[Jkrs]

Limitations are part of having a goal, aren't they? You're restricting yourself to actions that produce outcome X. Some restriction on the possible methods certainly makes the rest of the decision-making process easier, though.

In instances where there aren't stated goals, like a random painting where the only idea is to spend time having fun, I tend to impose some kind of restriction on the process. Things get vastly simpler if you're only painting in three or five colours, or avoiding hard lines, or using highlighter for everything. There's fewer possibilities to get lost in, or make an irreparable mistake by selecting.

[Salad]

this is a tricky question, good, but tricky.

first off, i want to make a distinction between rules, guidelines and objectives. they all are a type of limitation, but they all have different purposes and effects on my approaching a project. if someone gives me rule and says "you CAN NOT do ..." i will specifically set out to break that rule and show that it can be done just as well or even better by breaking the rule. i firmly believe that art is a self-driven endevor and should have NO rules restricting your product.

guidelines are the grey area between rules and freedom. someone says "you probably shouldn't do this..." or "that would probably be a bad idea..." and i evaluate it's merit and then decide whether it should be followed or not. sometimes the best way to complete a project is to follow the guidelines of those who came before you, and sometimes they missed something.

objectives are what truly help a project. you say "I will produce an oil painting that conveys this feeling..." and you automatically limit yourself to oil painting and a specific theme. i like to think of this as simply making a choice. every decision you make in the creative process limits your outcome, but it draws you closer to a final objective and end product. if you did not make any decisions to limit your options, you would never get started. to use the original example:
person a- "i decided to rewrite this poem without using the letters k. p. or h"
person b- "hey, you did. i didn't know that was possible. it's impressive"

[nobarcode]

Do you find limitations only help you to pursue your goals? ......
Or maybe I'm just looking for mental roadblock to overcome (as in there are no mental roadblocks :) ).
The thread topic:
Art Inclined? (*resisting*) prevents me from providing an answer, if that's what you mean/t.

[int]

Heh. Well it is art after all. What do you think I meant? :)

[Jezebel]

I do better when I'm doing work for someone else and they tell me what they want and the way they want it (the limits). I'm more motivated to begin and complete something in that way. If I'm just doing it for myself, I usually procrastinate and don't get started, or I start and put it down and don't bother picking it back up, and move on to something else. I'm not one of those folks who kicks and screams when I don't get my "artisitic freedom". I find working within a set of limits and producing a piece that fulfills a goal a challenge in itself.

[int]

Yip. That's me too. I've got notebooks full of songs and ideas, but without any limiting restrictions, if you will, I just drift and keep writing nonsense. My singer always hates getting lyric pages from me because he's got to try and find my mindset before he can finish the song. But! I'm good at filling holes if he's hit a roadblock.

That's one example of many...

[Google Monster]

Notebooks are handy. Write in mine all the time.

[EternalCynic]

Interesting question,
I find that it is harder to have everything open to me when I'm doing art, because it is so difficult to choose a topic or medium. It's nice to have freedom in art, but it's hard to finish something unless I have guidlines. Not sure if that helps at all, but it's just my two cents :)

[int]

Do you find limitations only help you to pursue your goals? ......
Or maybe I'm just looking for mental roadblock to overcome (as in there are no mental roadblocks :) ).
The thread topic:
Art Inclined? (*resisting*) prevents me from providing an answer, if that's what you mean/t.


"Art Inclined" is used loosely, and I'm sorry I missed this response earlier.

I posted in here as I thought it appropriate, but each of us has a certain level of expertise in a variety of topics - some of which could be considered "art" outside my own (loose) definition. Post your thoughts, you obviously have input and I see no reason to dissuade. :)

[int]

this is a tricky question, good, but tricky.

first off, i want to make a distinction between rules, guidelines and objectives. they all are a type of limitation, but they all have different purposes and effects on my approaching a project. if someone gives me rule and says "you CAN NOT do ..." i will specifically set out to break that rule and show that it can be done just as well or even better by breaking the rule. i firmly believe that art is a self-driven endevor and should have NO rules restricting your product.



Good point. I'm a f*** authority type myself, so any "limitations" that are either imposed or set, under the premise of my original question, are because I accept them under my own terms.



guidelines are the grey area between rules and freedom. someone says "you probably shouldn't do this..." or "that would probably be a bad idea..." and i evaluate it's merit and then decide whether it should be followed or not. sometimes the best way to complete a project is to follow the guidelines of those who came before you, and sometimes they missed something.


True (for me). If there is something that's missed I will try to communicate my idea. Other times it's appropriate to just put it (my idea) in there and see if it's noticed...depends on the circumstance.



objectives are what truly help a project. you say "I will produce an oil painting that conveys this feeling..." and you automatically limit yourself to oil painting and a specific theme. i like to think of this as simply making a choice. every decision you make in the creative process limits your outcome, but it draws you closer to a final objective and end product. if you did not make any decisions to limit your options, you would never get started. to use the original example:
person a- "i decided to rewrite this poem without using the letters k. p. or h"
person b- "hey, you did. i didn't know that was possible. it's impressive"

A means to an end, yes. I need them or nothing will ever get completed.

Someone once posted that other people will motivate us INTPs to be more productive. Would that hold true, in this sense?

I really wish I could remember that someone. :mellow:

[int]

And then an art teacher telling you that you have to draw that can because it will help you later on...I wish I could just draw what I want instead of drawing still-life and landscapes...which is why I can't pursue an art degree...I would get pissed off.

~*Aven*~

I find that funny because all I want to take pictures of is still-life (portraits included...hold still!) and landscapes. *If* I had any drawing ability that's probably what I would prefer to draw.

But I think I understand your frustration with teachers, and the reasons I didn't pursue music in university probably fall among similiar lines.

Cool. :)