Directions of integration and disintegration

[Miss Padfoot]

In Riso and Hudson's Personality Types, the concept of "directions of integration and disintegration" are discussed. Riso says, "The numbers on the Enneagram are connected in a specific sequence. The way the numbered points are connected is significant psychologically because the lines between each of the types denote the Direction of Integration (health, self-actualization) and the Direction of Disintegration (unhealth, neurosis) for each personality type. In other words, as you become more healthy or unhealthy, you can move in different 'directions,' as indicated by the lines of the Enneagram, from your basic type."

The directions of disintegration are thus: 1-4-2-8-5-7-1 and 9-6-3-9. In other words, an unhealthy One will start to act like an unhealthy Four, an unhealthy Nine like an unhealthy Six, etc. The directions of integration are just the reverse: 1-7-5-8-2-4-1 and 9-3-6-9.

In theory, it works, but in practice, it's just not realistic. I think all of us, regardless of our type, can exhibit healthy or unhealthy traits of any type. As a Five, I certainly don't see myself taking control of a situation and other people when I'm psychologically healthy, and I don't see myself being reckless and impulsive when I'm unhealthy. (Actually, I think the Seven's willingness to take risks is a skill I'd do well to learn.) Does anyone else have an opinion on the validity of the "directions" theory in the Enneagram?

[CosmicDust]

I don't think line theory really works for me either. Some people say they see it, but I don't see myself having all that much in the way of 7 or 8 tendencies under high or low stress that can't be labelled as anything else.

[Slider]

doesn't work for me.

[Vagabond]

I never go to Seven.

[flan2dave]

I know of a few peers in calculus who take unhealthy paths of integration. :(

[shaytana]

I have been known to go into the unhealthy 7.
Reckless - check
Impulsive - check
Taking (dangerous/stupid) risks - check

But I can also slip into the healthy 8 easily if I am interested enough.

and all in the name of experience.

[MacGuffin]

Disintegration is a good album.

[NGene]

I have very mixed feelings about this. Generally, I don't buy the integration/disintegration stuff, and I doubt the accuracy of the Enneagram, but in my case the points of (dis)integration are accurate. That is confusing the heck out of me.

Even before I'd heard anything about the Enneagram, I kept wondering the ways I changed when feeling psychologically healthy or unhealthy. When unhealthy, I needed to go out, have fun and spend time with people, I became reckless and lost my ability to concentrate. However, those unhealthy traits didn't confuse me so much because it's very common to, for example, lose your ability to concentrate when you're psychologically unhealthy.

However, when feeling particularly healthy, my behavior really confused me. I became the efficient planner and organized take-charge person... something I normally never was. Now when I read the healthy 8 description, my behavior fits that quite well, although some elements also fit the healthy 1 behavior.

So... I'm confused, because I mainly think the enneagram is bunk, but the descriptions fit me so well it's scary. However, I think ii's merely a coincidence combined with the Forer effect.

[Miss Padfoot]

I know of a few peers in calculus who take unhealthy paths of integration. :( :rofl:

That was wonderful.

[INTrPosr]

I studied the enneagram long before type. I see the enneagram being no different than any other personality system, especially MBTI. Each system has authors with varied theories which sometimes conflict, i.e. socionics, MBTI, temperment and the hybrid theorist like Linda V. Berens, Otto Koeger, etc. can all overwhelm a reader. It is my thoughts that attempts to integrate the systems, which is highly typical of INTPs, is where we become confused. Each system should remain independent of one another to be affective.

The enneagram has various theorist, including Riso/Hudson. I actually have the book "Wisdom of the Ennegram" by Riso/Hudson, but I learned more from Helen Palmer. Moreso, Renee Baron has a little book called, "The Enneagram Made Easy" which is oversimplified, but it does help people understand each type. Baron and Palmer both believe that you do not take on the traits of your integration/disintegration type. You actually can take on negative and positive of both. For example, a point five can become punitive, act unreasonable and ignore other people's feelings and desires blatantly instead of secretly. These are point eight negatives. Usually fives will do these things in environments that they feel most comfortable, i.e. at home arround family members. I think that the negative and positive of seven traits will be done when the point five is not so comfortable like out in the world, on a new job, etc. As for point sevenish, fives can take on projects impulsively and not get anything accomplished by becoming scattered and distracted.

On the other hand, the more positive sides of seven and eight find point fives getting in touch with their bodies moving from pure thought to action, trusting their instincts, becoming assertive energized and motivated, and defending themselves more clearly. Fives also began to experience life more broadly by becoming less self conscious, and becoming more fun loving and uninhibited.

[synchronous]

Baron and Palmer both believe that you do not take on the traits of your integration/disintegration type. You actually can take on negative and positive of both. For example, a point five can become punitive, act unreasonable and ignore other people's feelings and desires blatantly instead of secretly. These are point eight negatives. Usually fives will do these things in environments that they feel most comfortable, i.e. at home arround family members. I think that the negative and positive of seven traits will be done when the point five is not so comfortable like out in the world, on a new job, etc. As for point sevenish, fives can take on projects impulsively and not get anything accomplished by becoming scattered and distracted.

On the other hand, the more positive sides of seven and eight find point fives getting in touch with their bodies moving from pure thought to action, trusting their instincts, becoming assertive energized and motivated, and defending themselves more clearly. Fives also began to experience life more broadly by becoming less self conscious, and becoming more fun loving and uninhibited.

Thank you very much. I've studied the enneagram for a long time. I've had difficulty understanding the points of integration/disintegration for a Type 5. You've summarized it very well. Can i relate....

[Miss Padfoot]

Actually, Functianalyst, that sounds very surprisingly accurate. I was just about to say that I am healthy when I switch to Seven. I'm in an improv comedy club at school, which is an activity most suited for Sevens, but I manage to go and perform and learn how to do it. Spontaneity can be learned - not forced, but learned. I think I'm pretty healthy as a Seven.

I'm never really an Eight, though. :P I'm pretty easygoing, definitely not the take-charge type.

[Odyssey]

(response to Padfoot)

But wait, I do community service... it's arguably best suited for 1's.

And wait... I suscribe to an E-zine for high achievers, and another for networking... am I a 3?

Annnd, I'm by choice in a "Theory of Knowledge" class that explores philosophy and psychology, and intellectual concepts. That proves I'm a 5, right?

In short, it's hard to make the argument that "because I choose Activity Y that's most suited to Type X, I must be integrating or disintegrating to X". One might do improv comedy out of a desire to point out moral inconsistencies to the world, in ways that can't be digested without a laugh. One might do improv comedy to feel competent in the ability to be spontaneous, as a way of feeling comfortable with the world. If there IS (dis)integration, I think it has to be based on the motivation rather than the motivation's expression through activity.

~Odyssey