Claverhouse is a Fucking Twit, a comparative essay

[CoHo]

I wasn't sure where to put this, I think people would normally assume this should go in the bitching parlor, but again I disagree. This is an Essay from a Reliable Source and I would like to have an honest debate on the content. Some may consider this topic to be rude to some members of the forum, but I disagree, if they do not like the content they can simply ignore it!

I would prefer we do not sit around and argue about the merits of the author, or to quote Claverhouse: All information given out has inherent bias, there is no reason to condemn any source as being tainted.

The article:

Claverhouse is a Fucking Twit
Published by a reputable source, by a reputable author

Claverhouse, some people may consider this person a moron while others may consider him an idiot. To them I say "Nay!" He is actually a "Fucking Twit". To understand the slight differences between a Moron, Idiot and Fucking Twit we will first start with definitions;

Moron: a mildly mentally retarded person
It is obvious that Claverhouse has demonstrated himself to be much more then mildly retarded. So much so that the term Retarded may actually be most fitting, to this I concede that it still remains a possibility.

Idiot: a foolish or stupid person
While yes he is foolish and stupid, these are just additional characteristics of his persona. You could call him a Moronic Idiot, or even more closer to the point a Retarded Idiot, but simply calling him Retarded or Idiotic would be only selling half of his merits.

So why, one might ask, call him a Twit? The definition of Twit is “a silly annoying person” and taken on face value it looks as though to make him out to actually be less retarded and less stupid then he really is!

On the contrary, lets look at Claverhouse’s history as an administrator:

1) Calling a suicide note a fake even though he wasn’t sure
I start with this one because I think it is the most amusing. When a forum member posted a suicide note Claverhouse immediately alluded that it was probably a fake suicide note. Even though it had other forum members up in arms praying for the safety of the poster Claverhouse refused to remove the thread.

Rather then remove the thread he then admitted that he REALLY DIDN’T KNOW EITHER WAY! Isn’t that silly? Normally such an action would get a moderator removed from a forum, but he wasn’t. Isn’t that annoying?

2) Siding with a racist and banning other members
Claverhouse likes to suggest that he is open to all thoughts and that this forum should be as free as possible. Then why does he agree with the banning of a member that 80% of the forum (according to the poll) actually didn’t want to be banned?

On the other hand, now he is protecting a racist despite the fact that not a fraction of members like him.

As you can see, his retarded idiotic nature is overshadowed by a desperate need to be annoying and silly. Therefore the “fucking twit” was added to enhance what would normally be a “twit”.

Please discuss, keep in mind I will only listen to reputable sources, this is not a place for opinions.

[mgb]

Fucking Twit. A great definition.

[waxwing]

Not a comparative essay and definitely not a persuasive one. Hm. You actually think we believe you to be a voice of reason in this thread? Seems heavily slanted to me.

[melancholeric]

Not a comparative essay and definitely not a persuasive one. Hm. You actually think we believe you to be a voice of reason in this thread? Seems heavily slanted to me.
That's very closedminded. I'd expect more from an INTP.

[mgb]

BOOOOOO on the move.

This was an "essay". Essays belong in the world area.

BOOOOOO

[Star]

Here's one that really will be deleted Sunday midnight.

[Vagabond]

1) As it was later shown, the letter was indeed fake.
2) Who gets banned doesn't depend either on one moderator's opinion or on the public opinion. It is a decision to be taken by the group of admins/mods.
3) So is removing threads.
4) All opinions have the right to be heard, even racistic/nazistic/whatever-istic. Ever heard of freedom of speech?
5) I don't care what you will listen to and what you consider as reputable sources, I will state my opinion wherever I damn well please in this forum. You can keep your restrictions in your own private place and make sure to remind me I never go close to it.

[waxwing]

That's very closedminded. I'd expect more from an INTP.
Bring me my white-washed sepulchre, then.

[shaytana]

I wasn't sure where to put this, I think people would normally assume this should go in the bitching parlor, but again I disagree. This is an Essay from a Reliable Source and I would like to have an honest debate on the content. Some may consider this topic to be rude to some members of the forum, but I disagree, if they do not like the content they can simply ignore it!


Wrong. It goes in the Parlor.




On the contrary, lets look at Claverhouse’s history as an administrator:


Claver is a mod not an admin.



1) Calling a suicide note a fake even though he wasn’t sure
I start with this one because I think it is the most amusing. When a forum member posted a suicide note Claverhouse immediately alluded that it was probably a fake suicide note. Even though it had other forum members up in arms praying for the safety of the poster Claverhouse refused to remove the thread.

Rather then remove the thread he then admitted that he REALLY DIDN’T KNOW EITHER WAY! Isn’t that silly? Normally such an action would get a moderator removed from a forum, but he wasn’t. Isn’t that annoying?


Mods are allowed to have opinions. If he just alluded that it is probably a fake and didnt say it as fact I dont see the problem.



2) Siding with a racist and banning other members
Claverhouse likes to suggest that he is open to all thoughts and that this forum should be as free as possible. Then why does he agree with the banning of a member that 80% of the forum (according to the poll) actually didn’t want to be banned?

On the other hand, now he is protecting a racist despite the fact that not a fraction of members like him.


I know nothing about the racist and if you are talking about EZ's banning, at the time of the ban that poll was actually in favor of the ban and I believe every single mod and admin voted yes.



As you can see, his retarded idiotic nature is overshadowed by a desperate need to be annoying and silly. Therefore the “fucking twit” was added to enhance what would normally be a “twit”.

Please discuss, keep in mind I will only listen to reputable sources, this is not a place for opinions.


:zombie:

[CoHo]

4) All opinions have the right to be heard, even racistic/nazistic/whatever-istic. Ever heard of freedom of speech?

THEN WHY HAVE PEOPLE BEEN BANED?! JESUS-FUCKING-CHRIST-SHIT

[melancholeric]

1) As it was later shown, the letter was indeed fake.
Last thing I saw about this was f.c.'s post where he said that "we don't know". If it was shown that it was fake, why weren't we told about it?

4) All opinions have the right to be heard, even racistic/nazistic/whatever-istic. Ever heard of freedom of speech?
Do we have freedom of speech here? Why was EdwinJefferson banned then?

[CoHo]

This is what I have learned:

If I insult a group of people it is okay

If I insult an individual it is bad

So in response to that: Fuck all administrators on INTP Central

[Claverhouse]

Here's one that really will be deleted Sunday midnight.

I shouldn't really jump in so soon until there have been at least 100 posts, but this is going in the Best Threads forum once we get it up.

[purrs]



Claverhouse :ph34r:

[Vagabond]

THEN WHY HAVE PEOPLE BEEN BANED?! JESUS-FUCKING-CHRIST-SHIT Stating an opinion is different than picking fights and disturbing the course of EVERY discussion, even after being repeatedly requested to stop doing so, basically telling us all to fuck off, and it is also different than calling people cunts. If you can't tell the difference, that's your problem. And push the cups lock key.

[coffeezombie]

Well, it could be argued that the Zedo/Songbird fights were disturbing the intellectual nature of this forum. While Swift is an idiot, his ideas are at least costumed in intellectualism.

[Vagabond]

Do we have freedom of speech here? Why was EdwinJefferson banned then? Do you think calling people fucking cunts is a decent use of your freedom of speech and not an abuse of other people's rights?

[CoHo]

Do you think calling people fucking cunts is a decent use of your freedom of speech and not an abuse of other people's rights?
Okay, if I constantly refer you to a site that calls you a nigger?

Also if I bother you by calling you a fucking cunt you can always put me on ignore, you just open up that user's profile and click on "Ignore all posts by this user". Not that hard really.

[Vagabond]

Okay, if I constantly refer you to a site that calls you a nigger? You make a complaint, they get a warning (or is it two warnings?), and if they persist they get what they deserve. I am honestly clueless as to whom and what you are refering to though.

[Vagabond]

Okay, if I constantly refer you to a site that calls you a nigger?

Also if I bother you by calling you a fucking cunt you can always put me on ignore, you just open up that user's profile and click on "Ignore all posts by this user". Not that hard really. I don't see you doing that. Instead you start long threads full of namecalling.

[mgb]

Stating an opinion is different than picking fights and disturbing the course of EVERY discussion, even after being repeatedly requested to stop doing so, basically telling us all to fuck off, and it is also different than calling people cunts. If you can't tell the difference, that's your problem. And push the cups lock key.

That's crap. I know they were pissing people off, but not only did they have an ignore feature to use, but so does everyone else. But it went beyond that didn't it?

And this has too.

[CoHo]

I don't see you doing that. Instead you start long threads full of namecalling.

I was quoting an article from a reputable source,

How about I start posting articles from real websites with titles like "God hates fags and niggers and jews"?

[melancholeric]

Do you think calling people fucking cunts is a decent use of your freedom of speech and not an abuse of other people's rights?
So it's wrong to insult individuals but not groups of people?

What if I called all greeks "fucking cunts", would that be ok?

Just a question.

[coffeezombie]

That's crap. I know they were pissing people off, but not only did they have an ignore feature to use, but so does everyone else. But it went beyond that didn't it?


Seeing Swift post racist articles and get criticized intellectually by members here is not going to keep new people away from the board. Seeing Zedo and Songbird endlessly argue with each other despite warnings will.

[Star]

I shouldn't really jump in so soon until there have been at least 100 posts
This should be "until there has been at least 100 posts."

[Vagabond]

That's crap. I know they were pissing people off, but not only did they have an ignore feature to use, but so does everyone else. But it went beyond that didn't it?

And this has too. Well, whether one agrees or not, there are some freaking rules all over the place, so everyone knows what to expect. Whether you are for or against banning is irrelevant. That's not the issue here.

[CoHo]

Seeing Swift post racist articles and get criticized intellectually by members here is not going to keep new people away from the board.

Do you have any proof to that? Seems like our most recent members have been really great additions

[Vagabond]

So it's wrong to insult individuals but not groups of people?

What if I called all greeks "fucking cunts", would that be ok?

Just a question. That would make you a fucking asshole, but I would personally dismiss your opinion as one of a fucking asshole and shrug it off. So suit yourself.

[mgb]

You make a complaint, they get a warning (or is it two warnings?), and if they persist they get what they deserve. I am honestly clueless as to whom and what you are refering to though.

That's horseshit. No one outside of the admin circle has any clue if anyone actually listens to complaints.

I personally complained about songbird at least twice before anything was done, two or three months later.

[mgb]

That would make you a fucking asshole, but I would personally dismiss your opinion as one of a fucking asshole and shrug it off. So suit yourself.

But you can see how maybe something like that doesn't have room here and might be better off on some sort of Turkish website or something.

[coffeezombie]

Do you have any proof to that? Seems like our most recent members have been really great additions

Well, we do seem to have taken on at least a couple of new idiots, but I doubt anyone wants to join a board where every single thread consists of two people arguing with each other. It was pissing me off, for certain.

[shaytana]

That's horseshit. No one outside of the admin circle has any clue if anyone actually listens to complaints.

I personally complained about songbird at least twice before anything was done, two or three months later.

You mean before she was banned, not before anything was done because a lot of PM's and warnings went out during that time.

You should have been kept a little more in the loop though.

[CoHo]

Well, we do seem to have taken on at least a couple of new idiots, but I doubt anyone wants to join a board where every single thread consists of two people arguing with each other. It was pissing me off, for certain.

Still, if you think it is fine, what about me posting articles about fags and niggers and jews? What is the difference? Especially if they are from the same goddamned websites.

[Vagabond]

But you can see how maybe something like that doesn't have room here and might be better off on some sort of Turkish website or something. But you can also understand that, while part of the members think that, another part may think otherwise. We have had this discussion before. Someone is always going to bitch about it, either way. And if you consider my opinion as crap and horseshit, that is still your problem. Feel free to ignore it.

[Claverhouse]

I shouldn't really jump in so soon until there have been at least 100 postsThis should be "until there has been at least 100 posts."
No, since I would be reacting after the event, 'have' is perfectly proper. Still, I sucked at grammar.


Claverhouse :ph34r:

[CoHo]

And if you consider my opinion as crap and horseshit, that is still your problem. Feel free to ignore it.

And you can ignore me calling you a fucking cunt! See how happy we are now!

[coffeezombie]

Still, if you think it is fine, what about me posting articles about fags and niggers and jews? What is the difference? Especially if they are from the same goddamned websites.

I guess what pisses you off is different than what pisses others off. A message board isn't a democracy, after all. Like has been stated already, at least Swift presents his arguments in an intellectual way, even if they are wrong. They are "in the spirit" of an INTP forum. People personally insulting each other repeatedly is not.

[Vagabond]

And you can ignore me calling you a fucking cunt! See how happy we are now! Like I said, an *opinion* on whether things are run well or not is hardly the same with me calling you a fucking cunt. Too hard a difference to grasp?

[CoHo]

Like has been stated already, at least Swift presents his arguments in an intellectual way, even if they are wrong

I thought a comparative essay about Claverhouse was rather intellectual and "in the spirit"

[CoHo]

Like I said, an *opinion* on whether things are run well or not is hardly the same with me calling you a fucking cunt. Too hard a difference to grasp?

They are both *OPINIONS*

[kafkaesque]

Seeing Swift post racist articles and get criticized intellectually by members here is not going to keep new people away from the board. Seeing Zedo and Songbird endlessly argue with each other despite warnings will.

Seeing Zedo and SB argue would certainly not be more distressing to a prospective (or current) member than seeing a mod post a sarcastic and glib defense of a hateful, Jew bashing article.

[coffeezombie]

I thought a comparative essay about Claverhouse was rather intellectual and "in the spirit"

Right, and I don't think anyone has suggested that you be banned yet either, have they, although the name calling was a bit excessive even if it wasn't particularly offensive.

[melancholeric]

I guess what pisses you off is different than what pisses others off. A message board isn't a democracy, after all. Like has been stated already, at least Swift presents his arguments in an intellectual way, even if they are wrong. They are "in the spirit" of an INTP forum. People personally insulting each other repeatedly is not.
It's so very intellectual to copy an article from national alliance website and shoot down every disagreement with saying "typical closedminded liberal PC bullshit".

[Vagabond]

They are both *OPINIONS* Oh okay. Open a dictionary and check the difference between "opinion" and "insult". Then we talk.

[Sally]

I thought a comparative essay about Claverhouse was rather intellectual and "in the spirit"

You were aping the style, but that wasn't your intent, and that wasn't the tone you produced, and you know better, so don't pretend otherwise.

Ah, the complexities of communication...

[CoHo]

Oh okay. Open a dictionary and check the difference between "opinion" and "insult". Then we talk.

opinion. a view, judgment, or appraisal formed in the mind about a particular matter

It is my view that you are a fucking cunt... better?

[kafkaesque]

I guess what pisses you off is different than what pisses others off. A message board isn't a democracy, after all. Like has been stated already, at least Swift presents his arguments in an intellectual way, even if they are wrong. They are "in the spirit" of an INTP forum. People personally insulting each other repeatedly is not.

If any members of the forum are black or Jewish they would be personally insulted.
Swifts article not only insults them but their families and ancestors. That seems to me worse than insulting a particular member based on the content of their posts.

[coffeezombie]

It's so very intellectual to copy an article from national alliance website and shoot down every disagreement with saying "typical closedminded liberal PC bullshit".

So what's next? Should we ban Christians too? They offend me a lot as well.

Basically, there's a difference between being obnoxious and just having unpopular opinions.

[CoHo]

So what's next? Should we ban Christians too? They offend me a lot as well.

It is actually really simple

Get rid of the moderators because they don't do shit and run this place like you would run a bar.

[melancholeric]

So what's next? Should we ban Christians too? They offend me a lot as well.

Basically, there's a difference between being obnoxious and just having unpopular opinions.
Have they attacked you personally?

[Sally]

It is actually really simple

Get rid of the moderators because they don't do shit and run this place like you would run a bar.

Get a competing forum and moderate it strictly.

And I'm not being facetious. I think it would be fascinating to compare the two.

[Vagabond]

opinion. a view, judgment, or appraisal formed in the mind about a particular matter

It is my view that you are a fucking cunt... better? Other than I don't give half a shit about your opinion, expressing an offensive opinion with the unique goal of offending is an insult. Expressing an opinion that doesn't offend anyone about how a board is run, is just an opinion. If you still can't see the difference, go back to primary school.

[CoHo]

If you still can't see the difference, go back to primary school.

INSULTING ME? YOU SHOULD BE BANNED!

[Vagabond]

INSULTING ME? YOU SHOULD BE BANNED! I thought I asked you to push the caps lock button.

[CoHo]

Other than I don't give half a shit about your opinion, expressing an offensive opinion with the unique goal of offending is an insult. Expressing an opinion that doesn't offend anyone about how a board is run, is just an opinion.

Wether something is insulting is a matter of opinion... holy shit are we getting pretty deep! So what you find insulting and what I find an opinion will differ. Therefore, calling you a fucking cunt is my opinion, and your insult.


If you still can't see the difference, go back to primary school.

INSULTING ME? YOU SHOULD BE BANNED!

[coffeezombie]

I think it's a matter of quantity in the long run, not quality. If Swift posted a hundred threads about the superiority of the White race, he'd probably get banned too, just as Zedo and Songbird did for turning every thread into their personal argument.

[CoHo]

If Swift posted a hundred threads about the superiority of the White race, he'd probably get banned too, just as Zedo and Songbird did for turning every thread into their personal argument.

He hasn't even received a warning, so apparently what he is doing isn't wrong.

I still want to know about my "god hates fags, niggers and jews"

[Sally]

He hasn't even received a warning, so apparently what he is doing isn't wrong.

I still want to know about my "god hates fags, niggers and jews"

What he's doing is easily ignored - not significantly bothersome to the majority of users and not significantly bothersome to the admins.

[kafkaesque]

The issue is not just Swift posting racist articles. What I was offended by was that an article full of bigotry was posted and then a forum moderator jumped in with a pre-emptive post mocking those who would be offended or who might argue with it. That sends the message to people that this forum may support his view and derides those that would contend it.

[Sally]

The issue is not just Swift posting racist articles. What I was offended by was that an article full of bigotry was posted and then a forum moderator jumped in with a pre-emptive post mocking those who would be offended or who might argue with it. That sends the message to people that this forum may support his view and derides those that would contend it.

Can you link to this example?

[melancholeric]

What he's doing is easily ignored - not significantly bothersome to the majority of users and not significantly bothersome to the admins.
Ok. Me insulting you, or anyone else, is not bothersome to the majority of users, so it must be ok, after all, it's easy to ignore.

You peckerheaded, donkey-raping, shit-smelling, cum-sucking, pimple-nibbling, butt-faced masked gimp!

[coffeezombie]

The issue is not just Swift posting racist articles. What I was offended by was that an article full of bigotry was posted and then a forum moderator jumped in with a pre-emptive post mocking those who would be offended or who might argue with it. That sends the message to people that this forum may support his view and derides those that would contend it.

I think it's too much to ask all moderators and admins to suddenly become "neutral" just because they have those positions. We all have opinions. If enough people don't like the opinions of those in power, then they will leave of their own accord.

[Sally]

Ok. Me insulting you, or anyone else, is not bothersome to the majority of users, so it must be ok, after all, it's easy to ignore.

You peckerheaded, donkey-raping, shit-smelling, cum-sucking, pimple-nibbling, butt-faced masked gimp!

Yeah.

You're also doing this to make a point.

In other words, you're using an insult to express an opinion, as opposed to using your opinion for the express purpose of being insulting.

[CoHo]

I think it's too much to ask all moderators and admins to suddenly become "neutral" just because they have those positions. We all have opinions. If enough people don't like the opinions of those in power, then they will leave of their own accord.

And why don't you think that pig-headed-over-bearing-moderators would detract people from joining this forum?

[kafkaesque]

Can you link to this example?I was referring to this (http://forums.intpcentral.com/showpost.php?p=118089&postcount=7) sarcastic post that was the first response to Swifts book review post.

[melancholeric]

Yeah.

You're also doing this to make a point.
Partly. But I also happened to be perfectly honest with what I said.

[coffeezombie]

I think the Zedo contingent is just being unfairly biased towards their "old boy." I don't see too many people saying "bring Songbird back." You don't care about fairness, you just want the people who you like to be here and the ones you don't like to be gone.

[Sally]

Partly. But I also happened to be perfectly honest with what I said.

You think I'm a peckerheaded, donkey-raping, shit-smelling, cum-sucking, pimple-nibbling, butt-faced masked gimp?

That's... almost impressive. :)

[CoHo]

I think the Zedo contingent is just being unfairly biased towards their "old boy." I don't see too many people saying "bring Songbird back."

This isn't about brining people back, it is calling the administrators a bunch of two-faced-assholes. They ban a user and then say they promote free speech. They say that it is wrong to insult an individual and turn a blind eye to someone insulting an entire race. Fuck that.

[Sally]

I was referring to this (http://forums.intpcentral.com/showpost.php?p=118089&postcount=7) sarcastic post that was the first response to Swifts book review post.

I can see how that would be disconcerting to a newcomer.

I saw it as a comment on the predictability of thread reactions, but that context wouldn't have been there for someone unknowing of the history.

I would agree that it's the wrong image for a moderator to project, but if Claverhouse had been a regular user, I think it would have been ok.

[kafkaesque]

I think it's too much to ask all moderators and admins to suddenly become "neutral" just because they have those positions. We all have opinions. If enough people don't like the opinions of those in power, then they will leave of their own accord.
I would just like some clarification. What is the role of a moderator?

[Star]

No, since I would be reacting after the event, 'have' is perfectly proper.
You are not the subject that needs to agree with the verb: the (singular) hundred is. Amounts as subjects take a singular verb.

[kafkaesque]

I saw it as a comment on the predictability of thread reactions, but that context wouldn't have been there for someone unknowing of the history.


Claverhouse predicted that racist nazi bullshit would be called racist nazi bullshit.

[melancholeric]

You think I'm a peckerheaded, donkey-raping, shit-smelling, cum-sucking, pimple-nibbling, butt-faced masked gimp?

That's... almost impressive. :)
Yeah, I believe you can be impressed by insults created by a random insult generator. But you're not worth the effort to actually write anything like that.

[Sally]

Claverhouse predicted that racist nazi bullshit would be called racist nazi bullshit. good job.

He predicted that people would react to it when the most effective response would have been to ignore it.

[Claverhouse]

You are not the subject that needs to agree with the verb: the (singular) hundred is. Amounts as subjects take a singular verb.

Grammar nazi.



Claverhouse :ph34r:

[kafkaesque]

He predicted that people would react to it when the most effective response would have been to ignore it.
That is not what I got from this. It sounds like he is making fun of those that would call it filth.

How dare you bring this filth into these hallowed halls ? You are sick. Sick, sick, sick. You nazi, Swift. Every right-thinking person hates you [ stamps foot ]. Damn you. No-one has the right, blah, blah, blah... :sobs:

This one will run & run.



Claverhouse :ph34r:

[Sally]

That is not what I got from this. It sounds like he is making fun of those that would call it filth.

He is mocking them. Because they would be wasting their time and their energy to do what? Show Swift the light? Prevent others from becoming prejudiced, because Swift is so persuasive? What? What is the goal?

[kafkaesque]

He is mocking them. Because they would be wasting their time and their energy to do what? Show Swift the light? Prevent others from becoming prejudiced, because Swift is so persuasive? What? What is the goal?

I do not think it is a waste of time for forum members to show their disgust toward racism.

[CoHo]

He is mocking them. Because they would be wasting their time and their energy to do what? Show Swift the light? Prevent others from becoming prejudiced, because Swift is so persuasive? What? What is the goal?
You're right! I mean maybe that is why those niggers are so behind technologically, because they get so angry when they should just learn to ignore people like this! Maybe instead of letting it bother them they can go play basketball and drink some malt liquor.

Stormfront really has some good advice:

I recently found out that my 5yo daughters best friend has a faggot Mother. The girls Father told me the Mother wants her to be the flower girl at her dykewedding. I've also overheard the kid say to her Mum 'I'm lucky coz I've got 2 mummies'. :eek:
I am very concerned about any influence that this would have on my daughter. I hate these butch pigs - the fury that runs through my veins when I see them pick this kid up from school and walk out hand in hand.

Does anyone think I should take action and prevent my daughter from being friends with this girl? I plan on talking to the Father (who seems like a decent white man who was conned out of sharing his sperm with this scumbag) and encouraging him to apply for sole custody. (The anti-white-male courts would probably throw a spanner into those plans though).
Any comments or advice?

[Vagabond]

You're right! I mean maybe that is why those niggers are so behind technologically, because they get so angry when they should just learn to ignore people like this! Maybe instead of letting it bother them they can go play basketball and drink some malt liquor. There is nothing I hate more than someone using a social/racial/ethnical/etc group's rights to dismiss every opinion that differs to his own as racistic. I find it totally disrespectful to said group and absolutely hypocritical.

[CoHo]

There is nothing I hate more than someone using a social/racial/ethnical/etc group's rights to dismiss every opinion that differs to his own as racistic. I find it totally disrespectful to said group and absolutely hypocritical.

What is the problem? I'm just trying to see the logic behind Swift's articles. I mean, Claverhouse SAID there was truth in every one of those articles.

[Vagabond]

What is the problem? I'm just trying to see the logic behind Swift's articles. I mean, Claverhouse SAID there was truth in every one of those articles. I was talking about your comment on Sally's post. I can't see how what she said was even remotely similar with what you suggested.

[CoHo]

Yeah, that was a poor quote on my part. PLAY THROUGH!

[meshou]

2) Who gets banned doesn't depend either on one moderator's opinion or on the public opinion. It is a decision to be taken by the group of admins/mods.
{snip}
4) All opinions have the right to be heard, even racistic/nazistic/whatever-istic. Ever heard of freedom of speech?
There is no freedom of speech on a board. If there is racist content on this forum, it's because the mods want it there.

And if you really have an ideal for this board of freedom of speech, then members saying that a mod is an utter fucking twit is just more speech what is free. If a member says that it is abhorant to condone the opinions of neo-nazis even enough to let them cook on your server, then you should be having multiple orgasams over the amount of free speech being had.

That said-- you do have a choice whether you want that shit on your site, and have controlled content in the past. So, why do you want this shit on your site again?

[coffeezombie]

Like I said, I think there's a difference between being disruptive and having unpopular viewpoints. The moderators considered Zedo and Songbird disruptive. Unpopular viewpoints, on the other hand, seem to be tolerated here.

[Vagabond]

There is no freedom of speech on a board. If there is racist content on this forum, it's because the mods want it there.

And if you really have an ideal for this board of freedom os speech, then members saying that a mod is an utter fucking twit is just more speech what is free. If a member says that it is abhorant to condone the opinions of neo-nazis even enough to let them cook on your server, then you should be having multiple orgasams over the amount of free speech being had.

That said-- you do have a choice whether you want that shit on your site, and have controlled content in the past. So, why do you want this shit on your site again? If I want an environment where ideologies are being censored (even if I find them disgusting, as I do find swift's), I might as well join SJ central. You have a choice if you want to have your site open to every different opinion expressed or if you want to have a politically correct forum. If there was no freedom of speech, this thread would have been already deleted pages ago and people that "dared" insult the mods and admins would have been warned/banned. The fact that none of the above happened should mean something.

[Claverhouse]

What is the problem? I'm just trying to see the logic behind Swift's articles. I mean, Claverhouse SAID there was truth in every one of those articles.
[getting bored]

I have not said there was truth in every one of those articles. Nor would I.

However, I did say:


I don't mind neo-nazi propaganda, or democratic-capitalist propaganda, or communist propaganda. I can make up my own mind about these things. As a divine-righter I disbelieve all their tenets, but know that each speaks truth occasionally:
I can see how the mistake might arise for the hard of thinking.



Claverhouse :ph34r:

[ And where the fuck do you come off with this 'nigger' stuff ? Apart from the fact I have never posted any link or made any post about black people, the black members here are rather more reasonable than half of those I presume white. Including yourself. Using emotive disgusting terms sure helps whatever your argument is. ]

[kafkaesque]

Like I said, I think there's a difference between being disruptive and having unpopular viewpoints. The moderators considered Zedo and Songbird disruptive. Unpopular viewpoints, on the other hand, seem to be tolerated here.
While popular opposition to unpopular viewpoints is derided.

[Sally]

While popular opposition to unpopular viewpoints is derided.

I deride it. It's annoying. You draw attention to the unpopular viewpoint, keeping it alive.

[kafkaesque]

I deride it. It's annoying. You draw attention to the unpopular viewpoint, keeping it alive.
Ignoring it will not make it go away, it will just make it seem acceptable.

[mgb]

This thread should get moved back or at least put in Rants and Raves, I think guests should be able to see this argument as well.

The mods and admins have the delicate balance of being having opinions while also being above reproach. It's not fair, but it's the way it is. From the Claverhouse being a twit perspective, I think his credibility is shot.

I also find it ridiculous to say this forum has free speech or that people are free to use the ignore button when we've had trouble with these things in the past that resulted in bannings, and no one cares if Zedo comes back, just pointing out the obvious.

I'll say this again, this is a place for INTPs to feel comfortable with other INTPs. Which is more restrictive: Asking someone not to post links and articles for bigoted sites, be it racial or sexual? Or, risk offending a large number of people, losing members and not getting other new members because of links to bigoted sites?

This is insane. Why is the choice so fucking difficult? As a community, by letting these "articles" exist on our forum we are in essence condoning them and saying to potential members that at some level, we agree with their content, and that isn't right.

[melancholeric]

If there was no freedom of speech, this thread would have been already deleted pages ago and people that "dared" insult the mods and admins would have been warned/banned. The fact that none of the above happened should mean something.
MacGuffin made a thread about "there's a lot of drivel right now". This very popular thread was removed, with no apparent reason whatsoever, nor any kind of notice. 'guffin himself noticed that months later. And as far as I remember, the thread was quite civil, with few insults. The only conclusion I can draw is that the admins simply didn't like it.

How's that for freedom of speech?

But bashing entire ethnic groups is apparently ok.

[Hustler]

Like I said, I think there's a difference between being disruptive and having unpopular viewpoints. The moderators considered Zedo and Songbird disruptive. Unpopular viewpoints, on the other hand, seem to be tolerated here.

Very insightful, zombie. The true irony of this and its cousin thread started by mgbradsh in the next forum over is that the people who start these threads and act as though they are fighting for the betterment of INTPcentral are themselves the villains responsible for making our beloved forums less hospitable to the masses. This is also the hypocrisy which roundly rebuffs any points they hope to make.

Certain people, myself included, come to these forums with a contrarian stance and an unpopular perspective and offer up our thoughts for public consumption. Often we are criticized or ridiculed, but that is ok, we are aware of the provocative nature of our points of view. Through all of this, we stir up controversy, and controversy sells. The most viewed threads on this site are almost exclusively the most controversial. What people like Corporatewhore and mgbradsh do is stir up strife, conflict and ill-will. They criticize the forum's management in a volatile style, create a drama out of the disagreements they have here by lodging complaints and making false accusations, and make the place uncomfortable for posters and a headache for the admins. They complain about posters and whine when their opinions on how certain posters or topics should be dealt with are not agreed with completely and instantly by the administrators. They then attack the people whose ideas are in opposition to their own. When people respond in kind, as almost always happens when conflict is intentionally stirred up in a community of such strong opinions as this, they complain. They could just leave if they are so fed-up, but instead they stay here and continue to play their vindictive game of insecurity and ill-will. Bravo.

Fortunately, their moves are transparent, and the rest of us -- administrators included -- can either ignore them or laugh at them. I choose the latter. They don't care about the well-being of the forum, they just want to bend others to their way of thinking with strong-arm tactics of conflict.

[mgb]

Very insightful, zombie. The true irony of this and its cousin thread started by mgbradsh in the next forum over is that the people who start these threads and act as though they are fighting for the betterment of INTPcentral are themselves the villains responsible for making our beloved forums less hospitable to the masses. This is also the hypocrisy which roundly rebuffs any points they hope to make.

Certain people, myself included, come to these forums with a contrarian stance and an unpopular perspective and offer up our thoughts for public consumption. Often we are criticized or ridiculed, but that is ok, we are aware of the provocative nature of our points of view. Through all of this, we stir up controversy, and controversy sells. The most viewed threads on this site are almost exclusively the most controversial. What people like Corporatewhore and mgbradsh do is stir up strife, conflict and ill-will. They criticize the forum's management in a volatile style, create a drama out of the disagreements they have here by lodging complaints and making false accusations, and make the place uncomfortable for posters and a headache for the admins. They complain about posters and whine when their opinions on how certain posters or topics should be dealt with are not agreed with completely and instantly by the administrators. They then attack the people whose ideas are in opposition to their own. When people respond in kind, as almost always happens when conflict is intentionally stirred up in a community of such strong opinions as this, they complain. They could just leave if they are so fed-up, but instead they stay here and continue to play their vindictive game of insecurity and ill-will. Bravo.

Fortunately, their moves are transparent, and the rest of us -- administrators included -- can either ignore them or laugh at them. I choose the latter. They don't care about the well-being of the forum, they just want to bend others to their way of thinking with strong-arm tactics of conflict.


Are you whining about whining? Fantastic.

[kafkaesque]

Very insightful, zombie. The true irony of this and its cousin thread started by mgbradsh in the next forum over is that the people who start these threads and act as though they are fighting for the betterment of INTPcentral are themselves the villains responsible for making our beloved forums less hospitable to the masses. This is also the hypocrisy which roundly rebuffs any points they hope to make.

Certain people, myself included, come to these forums with a contrarian stance and an unpopular perspective and offer up our thoughts for public consumption. Often we are criticized or ridiculed, but that is ok, we are aware of the provocative nature of our points of view. Through all of this, we stir up controversy, and controversy sells. The most viewed threads on this site are almost exclusively the most controversial. What people like Corporatewhore and mgbradsh do is stir up strife, conflict and ill-will. They criticize the forum's management in a volatile style, create a drama out of the disagreements they have here by lodging complaints and making false accusations, and make the place uncomfortable for posters and a headache for the admins. They complain about posters and whine when their opinions on how certain posters or topics should be dealt with are not agreed with completely and instantly by the administrators. They then attack the people whose ideas are in opposition to their own. When people respond in kind, as almost always happens when conflict is intentionally stirred up in a community of such strong opinions as this, they complain. They could just leave if they are so fed-up, but instead they stay here and continue to play their vindictive game of insecurity and ill-will. Bravo.

Fortunately, their moves are transparent, and the rest of us -- administrators included -- can either ignore them or laugh at them. I choose the latter. They don't care about the well-being of the forum, they just want to bend others to their way of thinking with strong-arm tactics of conflict.
If there was an Ass-Kissing smiley I would insert it here.

*edit* by this I did not mean to say kiss my ass, but rather to imply that hustler is an ass-kisser, sucking up to mods and admins.

[Hustler]

Are you whining about whining? Fantastic.

Not at all. I'm not making a judgment about what you do, just pointing out your hypocrisy.

[Vagabond]

MacGuffin made a thread about "there's a lot of drivel right now". This very popular thread was removed, with no apparent reason whatsoever, nor any kind of notice. 'guffin himself noticed that months later. And as far as I remember, the thread was quite civil, with few insults. The only conclusion I can draw is that the admins simply didn't like it.

How's that for freedom of speech? Speaking of which, and given the thread we are discussing in, claverhouse had commented against that action if I recall correctly. Pretty much in the same way you do now.

[Sally]

Ignoring it will not make it go away, it will just make it seem acceptable.

In this medium, ignoring it will make it go away. It drops off the "New Posts" screen and I don't have to think about it anymore.

Swift is racist. That is unfortunate. Swift's racism doesn't bother me, because it has no effect on me, other than inspiring disruption on the forum I frequent. I don't respect Swift's opinion enough to give a shit about his racism, to try to convince him of my point of view. I don't think I could succeed if I tried.

Racism in general does bother me. I have discussed it at length (http://forums.intpcentral.com/showthread.php?t=4060&highlight=racism). But that was a discussion in which I felt that real communication was going on; people could and did learn from each other.

I am much more worried that someone would get the idea that certain opinions are not acceptable to the group and thus censor themselves than that a visitor might conclude that INTPs are a bunch of racists. "Racism might be acceptable to these people!!!!" is ok with me. "I have to be careful not to accidentally insult anyone" is not.

And I fully agree with coffeezombie regarding disruptive vs unpopular. I will take an opinion I disagree with over annoying and repetitive and insistent griping any day.

[melancholeric]

Speaking of which, and given the thread we are discussing in, claverhouse had commented against that action if I recall correctly. Pretty much in the same way you do now.
Yes, he has. But do we really have this so called "freedom of speech" here or not?

[Hustler]

There is no freedom of speech on a board. If there is racist content on this forum, it's because the mods want it there.

Strawman fallacy?

Well, maybe not quite :) You are intentionally blurring the line between indifference and desire. The mods have elected to take a stance of indifference regarding this type of content, they have not taken steps to promote its inclusion here.

[Sally]

This is insane. Why is the choice so fucking difficult? As a community, by letting these "articles" exist on our forum we are in essence condoning them and saying to potential members that at some level, we agree with their content, and that isn't right.

We are saying that we are accepting of unpopular and extreme viewpoints. We may not agree with them, but we will allow their representation (and then, I should hope, ignore them, because they aren't worth the attention). I don't see this as a negative.

[Vagabond]

Yes, he has. But do we really have this so called "freedom of speech" here or not? At least I want to believe we are trying to improve whatever faults exist in order to have it more effectively, and not in order to abolish it.

[kafkaesque]

In this medium, ignoring it will make it go away. It drops off the "New Posts" screen and I don't have to think about it anymore.

Swift is racist. That is unfortunate. Swift's racism doesn't bother me, because it has no effect on me, other than inspiring disruption on the forum I frequent. I don't respect Swift's opinion enough to give a shit about his racism, to try to convince him of my point of view. I don't think I could succeed if I tried.

Racism in general does bother me. I have discussed it at length (http://forums.intpcentral.com/showthread.php?t=4060&highlight=racism). But that was a discussion in which I felt that real communication was going on; people could and did learn from each other.

I am much more worried that someone would get the idea that certain opinions are not acceptable to the group and thus censor themselves than that a visitor might conclude that INTPs are a bunch of racists. "Racism might be acceptable to these people!!!!" is ok with me. "I have to be careful not to accidentally insult anyone" is not.

And I fully agree with coffeezombie regarding disruptive vs unpopular. I will take an opinion I disagree with over annoying and repetitive and insistent griping any day.

"Racism might be acceptable to these people" is not okay with me. And it is quite clear that Swift's articles are intentionally insulting whole races of people, not accidentally.

[kafkaesque]

We are saying that we are accepting of unpopular and extreme viewpoints. We may not agree with them, but we will allow their representation (and then, I should hope, ignore them, because they aren't worth the attention). I don't see this as a negative.
I think we should be allowed to show that we do not agree with them by having threads like this put in a forum that visitors can see.

[Sally]

"Racism might be acceptable to these people" is not okay with me. And it is quite clear that Swift's articles are intentionally insulting whole races of people, not accidentally.

Swift keeps it in his own threads, his own threads which would die quiet deaths if people would just leave them alone. And then Swift would go away, because he wouldn't be getting any response.

But you value a moral response whereas I value an open discourse.

[mgb]

We are saying that we are accepting of unpopular and extreme viewpoints. We may not agree with them, but we will allow their representation (and then, I should hope, ignore them, because they aren't worth the attention). I don't see this as a negative.

Why should we be accepting of those viewpoints? The general opinion on this thread is that those viewpoints are disgusting. Your method is very similar to mine. You just hope they will go away if no one posts on them. Passive-aggression. I'm saying we should delete them. Aggression. Not opposite sides of the coin.

If enough people disagree with the viewpoints why should we let them sit on the board, especially when they come at a cost to the members?

And you obviously do think it's a negative if your hope is that they will disappear into obscurity.

[mgb]

Swift keeps it in his own threads, his own threads which would die quiet deaths if people would just leave them alone. And then Swift would go away, because he wouldn't be getting any response.

But you value a moral response whereas I value an open discourse.

See above. Making someone go away by ignoring them isn't "open discourse".

[Sally]

I think we should be allowed to show that we do not agree with them by having threads like this put in a forum that visitors can see.

Swift's views and people's responses are in the World forum. That should make it clear enough to a visitor where the majority of feeling lies.

I don't have any opinion on where this thread belongs.

[Sally]

Why should we be accepting of those viewpoints? The general opinion on this thread is that those viewpoints are disgusting. Your method is very similar to mine. You just hope they will go away if no one posts on them. Passive-aggression. I'm saying we should delete them. Aggression. Not opposite sides of the coin.

If enough people disagree with the viewpoints why should we let them sit on the board, especially when they come at a cost to the members?

And you obviously do think it's a negative if your hope is that they will disappear into obscurity.

But the different is in the method.

If Swift's threads die quietly, the impression is that 'INTPs don't value blindly bigoted opinions.' The negative is specific. Kind of like boring threads. They just go away.

If they are deleted, the impressions is that, 'INTPs judge and eliminate views that differ from their own.' The negative is general. There is an oppressive atmosphere.

Note that boring threads and racist threads don't go away for good. That's fine with me. I don't want to prevent people posting their opinions. And that's what oppression does - it prevents, it discourages.

I don't want to encourage Swift, but I do want to encourage the general populace to post their controversial opinions, so long as the sole intention is not to stir up controversy. If the controversial threads didn't generate so much interest, you wouldn't have people like Hustler just trying to get a rise.

[Sally]

See above. Making someone go away by ignoring them isn't "open discourse".

It wouldn't be making someone go away, it would be the someone choosing to go away or else come up with something more interesting to say.

And it would leave the field open for opinions of any sort - open discourse.

[meshou]

Strawman fallacy?

Well, maybe not quite :) You are intentionally blurring the line between indifference and desire. The mods have elected to take a stance of indifference regarding this type of content, they have not taken steps to promote its inclusion here.
The mods have absolute control of the content of this board. There is no line between indifference and desire.

If they want the inclusion of all opinions, then that is an opinion they want on this site. And that is a valid stance. All discussion becomes about what the mods want vs. the members, and how to balance that out.

In any real instance where accountablility for the contents of this site would come up, the owners can get his just as hard as the people who posted them. Indifference does not mitigate accountability.

[mgb]

But the different is in the method.

If Swift's threads die quietly, the impression is that 'INTPs don't value blindly bigoted opinions.' The negative is specific. Kind of like boring threads. They just go away.

If they are deleted, the impressions is that, 'INTPs judge and eliminate views that differ from their own.' The negative is general. There is an oppressive atmosphere.

Note that boring threads and racist threads don't go away for good. That's fine with me. I don't want to prevent people posting their opinions. And that's what oppression does - it prevents, it discourages.

I don't want to encourage Swift, but I do want to encourage the general populace to post their controversial opinions, so long as the sole intention is not to stir up controversy. If the controversial threads didn't generate so much interest, you wouldn't have people like Hustler just trying to get a rise.

The beauty of deleting threads is that people won't be able to form that opinion because it just disappears.

And still, I think letting oppressive threads exist is worse than having an oppresive administration. And oh yeah, we aren't asking the admins to do anything they haven't done before, so I guess it's not going to make this place any more oppressive than it already is.

[Hustler]

Indifference does not mitigate accountability.

I disagree. They are indifferent to an issue which upsets you. They are not accountable to you in any way. You're a guest.

[Swift]

I think it's a matter of quantity in the long run, not quality. If Swift posted a hundred threads about the superiority of the White race, he'd probably get banned too, just as Zedo and Songbird did for turning every thread into their personal argument.Excuse me, I never posted anything about the superiority of the white race. Superiority is a relative concept, and as such scientifically useless.

[Swift]

The issue is not just Swift posting racist articles. What I was offended by was that an article full of bigotry was posted and then a forum moderator jumped in with a pre-emptive post mocking those who would be offended or who might argue with it. That sends the message to people that this forum may support his view and derides those that would contend it.You probably even didn't read the entire article. It's nothing more than the truth.

[s0978]

For the record, I would like to see swift banned. His racist threads are very offensive. I haven't piped in much because I'd worry my inferior Fe might kick in, my blood might boil, and then some asshole would say, "Uh, you got mad so you must not be INTP."

I don't have a beef with young claverhouse or w/ moderation/administration here generally. In fact, I very much aprreciate that you all do what you do. But I am beginning to believe that some measures of .. er "quality control" might be a good thing. Like many of the members have been acknowledging, intpc seems to have become a somewhat uninspiring and hostile place to post -- maybe unnecessarily so?

[Swift]

I can see how that would be disconcerting to a newcomer.

I saw it as a comment on the predictability of thread reactions, but that context wouldn't have been there for someone unknowing of the history.

I would agree that it's the wrong image for a moderator to project, but if Claverhouse had been a regular user, I think it would have been ok.So what? People should know better than to jump to conclusions.

[s0978]

oh and also for the record:

This message is hidden because Swift is on your ignore list.

[Swift]

That is not what I got from this. It sounds like he is making fun of those that would call it filth.He did. Some people just can't handle a rational discussion.

[mgb]

He did. Some people just can't handle a rational discussion.

I see you are quoting you as well.

[mgb]

He did. Some people just can't handle a rational discussion.

And maybe you should try using some rational basis for your arguments if you intend to have a rational discussion.

[Swift]

I'll say this again, this is a place for INTPs to feel comfortable with other INTPs. Which is more restrictive: Asking someone not to post links and articles for bigoted sites, be it racial or sexual? Or, risk offending a large number of people, losing members and not getting other new members because of links to bigoted sites?

This is insane. Why is the choice so fucking difficult? As a community, by letting these "articles" exist on our forum we are in essence condoning them and saying to potential members that at some level, we agree with their content, and that isn't right.Each one of you has a fair chance of proving my point wrong. Instead, I get personal insults thrown towards me, and some people are even sporting personal insults in their signature.

As for losing members, there are numerous other threads that could be considered insulting for other people, eg anti-christian threads.

The existence of certain opinions on this board does not mean that every member is supporting them; each member is personally responsable for his own posts, not those of others.

Sorry to disturb your thought-police fantasies.

[meshou]

I disagree. They are indifferent to an issue which upsets you. They are not accountable to you in any way. You're a guest.I never said they were.

In fact, I never said they should do anything about Swift at all. I just said they were accountable for everything he says on this site.

[Swift]

Very insightful, zombie. The true irony of this and its cousin thread started by mgbradsh in the next forum over is that the people who start these threads and act as though they are fighting for the betterment of INTPcentral are themselves the villains responsible for making our beloved forums less hospitable to the masses. This is also the hypocrisy which roundly rebuffs any points they hope to make.

Certain people, myself included, come to these forums with a contrarian stance and an unpopular perspective and offer up our thoughts for public consumption. Often we are criticized or ridiculed, but that is ok, we are aware of the provocative nature of our points of view. Through all of this, we stir up controversy, and controversy sells. The most viewed threads on this site are almost exclusively the most controversial. What people like Corporatewhore and mgbradsh do is stir up strife, conflict and ill-will. They criticize the forum's management in a volatile style, create a drama out of the disagreements they have here by lodging complaints and making false accusations, and make the place uncomfortable for posters and a headache for the admins. They complain about posters and whine when their opinions on how certain posters or topics should be dealt with are not agreed with completely and instantly by the administrators. They then attack the people whose ideas are in opposition to their own. When people respond in kind, as almost always happens when conflict is intentionally stirred up in a community of such strong opinions as this, they complain. They could just leave if they are so fed-up, but instead they stay here and continue to play their vindictive game of insecurity and ill-will. Bravo.

Fortunately, their moves are transparent, and the rest of us -- administrators included -- can either ignore them or laugh at them. I choose the latter. They don't care about the well-being of the forum, they just want to bend others to their way of thinking with strong-arm tactics of conflict.*The audience stands up and cheers.*

[Swift]

Swift is racist. That is unfortunate. Swift's racism doesn't bother me, because it has no effect on me, other than inspiring disruption on the forum I frequent. I don't respect Swift's opinion enough to give a shit about his racism, to try to convince him of my point of view. I don't think I could succeed if I tried.

I am much more worried that someone would get the idea that certain opinions are not acceptable to the group and thus censor themselves than that a visitor might conclude that INTPs are a bunch of racists. "Racism might be acceptable to these people!!!!" is ok with me. "I have to be careful not to accidentally insult anyone" is not.You're too lazy to contend my posts and then you whine about new people having the wrong impression of the board? Haha.

[Hustler]

Why should we be accepting of those viewpoints? The general opinion on this thread is that those viewpoints are disgusting.

Because you set a bad precedent. In his time, Galileo was an extremist, but I think we can look back on him now and be grateful for his efforts in promoting science. If you start censoring something "extremist" now, where do you stop? Do you start burning books next? Perhaps persecuting entire groups of people with whom you disagree? Do you fear something in these posts?

I don't think you do fear them, but you see this as an opportunity to play your own power game. When you can influence the exposure to ideas which others have, you can begin to control them. When your perspective becomes enforced, you can push for more stringent regulations to shape things into your own (narrow) worldview. Can you not just go start your own forum with your own rules somewhere? No, I guess that wouldn't be satisfying, as you would not be corrupting a fine set of forums with your spite and driving it to ruin.


If enough people disagree with the viewpoints why should we let them sit on the board, especially when they come at a cost to the members?

And so begins the subjugation and marginalization of the minority. You echo the sentiments of the SJ world well in your arguments. It is this party line of comformity which we enjoy escaping by coming to a place like INTPcentral. Why don't you just whip us and tell us to get into line? I know it's what you want to do.


And you obviously do think it's a negative if your hope is that they will disappear into obscurity.

In time, they always do. I see a future of obscurity for you, for example.

[mgb]

Each one of you has a fair chance of proving my point wrong. Instead, I get personal insults thrown towards me, and some people are even sporting personal insults in their signature.

As for losing members, there are numerous other threads that could be considered insulting for other people, eg anti-christian threads.

The existence of certain opinions on this board does not mean that every member is supporting them; each member is personally responsable for his own posts, not those of others.

Sorry to disturb your thought-police fantasies.

We did prove your points wrong. Read the thread, especially that little diddy about Egyptians being from Eastern Europe. That didn't seem to stop you.

And my signature is a "truth" as you call them. But I'm willing to make you a deal, delete your bigoted posts and stop posting them and I'll change my signature. Don't like the deal? Quit bitching.

[Hustler]

In fact, I never said they should do anything about Swift at all. I just said they were accountable for everything he says on this site.

Sorry, he is accountable for what he says, not the administrators. The administrators provide us a free service, they are not accountable for anything that goes on here, really.

[Swift]

For the record, I would like to see swift banned. His racist threads are very offensive.Oh poor thing. What's your problem? Are you a black jew that had an abortion or something?

[Swift]

We did prove your points wrong. Read the thread, especially that little diddy about Egyptians being from Eastern Europe. That didn't seem to stop you.Why should it stop me from posting new threads?


And my signature is a "truth" as you call them. But I'm willing to make you a deal, delete your bigoted posts and stop posting them and I'll change my signature. Don't like the deal? Quit bitching. *Gives mg the middle finger.*

[CoHo]

[ And where the fuck do you come off with this 'nigger' stuff ? Apart from the fact I have never posted any link or made any post about black people, the black members here are rather more reasonable than half of those I presume white. Including yourself. Using emotive disgusting terms sure helps whatever your argument is. ]

I don't see what your problem is I'm simply reusing much of the content on these sites Swift uses. What the hell is YOUR problem? Either you are all right from the content from the website or you aren't, make up your fucking mind you Fucking Twit.


The best line is Mr. Pink's when he tells Mr. White and Mr. Blonde that they are acting like a bunch of niggers. I don't remember it word for word, but he asks them if they've ever worked with them. Something like "You're acting like niggers. Have you ever worked with niggers? They're always wanting to kill each other."

I don't know for a fact, but it's probably the truth.

No, they date Niggers out of self-loathing, and because they know most White men will not fight for them, as the Seattle riots proved. If White men would act like MEN again,and were willing to string up any Nigger that even looked at a White woman,the problem would disappear over night.
How do I know? Because thats exactly what our forefathers did.
In reality though, this is not going to happen overnight.In the meantime, the point I made about maximizing White babies coming out of White wombs has in no way been refuted by you. Nor has what I said about making the rate of outbreeding equal the rate of outdating. It cant be refuted, its simple mathamatics


This is a situation where whites could negotiate from a position of strength, with Niggers who now realise that they need the whites to rule over them, if they ( Niggers ) are not going to be condemmed to a life of penury and starvation.

The Niggers are better off with good job prospects, and guaranteed rewards under the Benign Patronage Of Aryans ( BPOA ), than Perpetual Bastardization By Incompetents ( PBBI ) of their own.

I do not hate the other races!, and provided they accept their place in the natural order, and start to realise that they only get rewards according to their mental capacity, and dilligent hard work, I can visage a future of Symbiotic C0-operation.

well, for one... get out of the south. There's more niggers there than anywhere. And dont go to the southwest, thats all mexican. The northwest and northen midwest seems to be the place to go. Get out of the big towns. They all congregate there too.

hit places like northern michigan, illinois, any of the plains states, Montana.

Soon as I get my self situated im hittin the road too. Going a little more north in Michigan. I'm TOOO close to Detroit. We got em all!

OTTAWA - An attempt to broaden Canada's hate-crimes laws to include protection for homosexuals has sparked a fierce debate in Parliament over whether the Bible and the Koran could be branded as hate literature.

It centres on a bill from gay Member of Parliament Svend Robinson that would make it a crime, punishable by up to two years in prison, to incite or promote hatred against homosexuals. But his attempt to end gay-bashing has brought warnings that pastors or imams could be thrown into jail for preaching homosexuality is evil and that their scriptures could be banned or confiscated.

The real crappy part of this is that Nebraskans voted this into law. It wasn't something passed by officials. The people said so in a direct vote on it. What the f*ck happened to WE THE PEOPLE?

Judges are there to enforce the laws that the people set forth. Not to tell the people that they are wrong and stop them from making laws.

Oh well, just alienated about 80% of Nebraska to make a few faggots happy. This makes me wanna puke.

Well I'll put it how I think it is...I think it is a mental handicap. I do not believe they turn gay. I think they are born gay(many people disagree with this but let me explain!). I think there is some sort of filth in their brains and genetic makeup. Really...why would someone wanna be gay? Especially with all the gay bashing that goes on. I have seen kids who are 3 years old and I know that they are going to be gay. I also feel this way with genetic disorders that handicap fetus. I mean obviously if the mother drinks or does drugs or has poor nutrition...then thats the mothers fault...but I feel homosexuals and handicaps are genetically inferior. I just opened a whole can of worms huh?

[Vagabond]

Oh poor thing. What's your problem? Are you a black jew that had an abortion or something? Irrelevant. I am not a black jew that had an abortion, and I still think you are a closeminded racist that can't see further than his superior-race nose.

It is funny to see Swift get a courage boost and act brave just because a thread was partially about him, even if negatively. I guess all the mice want is a little attention and they think they are lions. Interesting.

And for once, I will agree with Hustler. The admins are not responsible for what people post in here. Each one is responsible for himself. This is not primary school.

[CoHo]

And for once, I will agree with Hustler. The admins are not responsible for what people post in here. Each one is responsible for himself. This is not primary school.

Fucking cunt

[Vagabond]

Fucking cunt Take your medication, kid.

[waxwing]

Personally, I think a lot of the misunderstanding is due to Claverhouse's natural satirical tone. I think every Claverhouse post I've read seems to have a humorous element, even if its not readily detectable.

[Claverhouse]

I don't see what your problem is I'm simply reusing much of the content on these sites Swift uses. What the hell is YOUR problem? Either you are all right from the content from the website or you aren't, make up your fucking mind you Fucking Twit.
I am quite all right with posters putting up links which say anything other than child-porn or sado-masochism. That's their affair. I don't have to look at the sights nor read their posts. If though, a poster uses such offensive language then the poster can be warned off or banned; and his posts deleted. Other than a few trolls nobody has.

As for your non-infrequent comment in other threads


I can't fucking stand this place right now
This place is rather like life: no-one invited you and no-one will care if you leave.



Claverhouse :ph34r:

[Swift]

It is funny to see Swift get a courage boost and act brave just because a thread was partially about him, even if negatively. I guess all the mice want is a little attention and they think they are lions. Interesting.For a moment, I thought people wouldn't go beyond name-calling and ridicule, so I'm very satisfied that my contributions have at least lead to a discussion about freedom of speech and the existence of unpopular opinions on this board.

[CoHo]

Personally, I think a lot of the misunderstanding is due to Claverhouse's natural satirical tone. I think every Claverhouse post I've read seems to have a humorous element, even if its not readily detectable.

I'm sure there are things personal about you that would really set you off, there is to all of us. The problem is, some of this stuff that has been posted has set a bunch of people off and we are simply being told to deal with it.

To that I say, deal with being called a cunt, deal with phrases like 'the only good faggot is one with his skull crushed by the tip of my steel toed boot'.

I can't stand the hypocrisy.

EZ, SB and Edwin were all banned in the guise to make this a better place. And all they did was bitch. Yet racists and assholes are allowed to stay. I see a problem with that. I really enjoyed this place but I can't fucking stand it right now. No I don't want to leave, no I don't want to ignore it, I want to push the envelope until it breaks. I’d like to see a change for the better.

I want to post pictures of every admin and tell them how ugly they are. I want to reply to every thread on this fucking forum with relevant articles from stormfront. I want them to feel as angry as I do. I want to use the words faggot and nigger so much it becomes a mnemonic pause.

I want them to do this until they make some action. Although I’ll probably just wind up banned, I wish other people would get banned with me.

[Vagabond]

For a moment, I thought people wouldn't go beyond name-calling and ridicule, so I'm very satisfied that my contributions have at least lead to a discussion about freedom of speech and the existence of unpopular opinions on this board. We had freedom of speech without your "contribution", thank you very much. We can survive without you, hard as it is to believe. Actually, you wouldn't be missed at all.

[CoHo]

If though, a poster uses such offensive language then the poster can be warned off or banned; and his posts deleted. Other than a few trolls nobody has.

So you would be fine if I said the only good african american is an african american swinging from the rope of a tree? Is that fucking better now?

[Swift]

We had freedom of speech without your "contribution", thank you very much. We can survive without you, hard as it is to believe. Actually, you wouldn't be missed at all.Sure you had freedom of speech, blabbing about Star Trek and shit. Untill somebody made a real controversial post.

[Vagabond]

No I don't want to leave, no I don't want to ignore it, I want to push the envelope until it breaks. I’d like to see a change for the better. "Better" the way you consider it. Which means you want to impose your point of view. Start your own forum and make it "better". Who likes it stays, who doesn't goes. That's how it works with boards, like it or not.


I want to post pictures of every admin and tell them how ugly they are. I want to reply to every thread on this fucking forum with relevant articles from stormfront. I want them to feel as angry as I do. I want to use the words faggot and nigger so much it becomes a mnemonic pause. So basically you want to become exactly what you condemn. Nice. I understand being angry at ideas, or people holding them and insulting you or your ideals, but I don't understand being angry at people because they don't censor. Really, I see no sense in this.

[Swift]

So you would be fine if I said the only good african american is an african american swinging from the rope of a tree? Is that fucking better now?YOUR words. (And your words only.) Keep that in mind.

[Vagabond]

Sure you had freedom of speech, blabbing about Star Trek and shit. Untill somebody made a real controversial post. Oh there were controversial posts alright. Unless you mean controversial irrational posts full of shit.

[Avengardh]

And here I thought it had been calm for far too long.

I thank thee all.

[CoHo]

So basically you want to become exactly what you condemn. Nice. I understand being angry at ideas, or people holding them and insulting you or your ideals, but I don't understand being angry at people because they don't censor. Really, I see no sense in this.

The point was more that I'm NOT doing that

These people do censor, for fucks sakes, they've banned members before that is CENSORSHIP.

I don't see why removing racists is a bad thing, I really dont.

[s]

[eats popcorn]

If Claver was a proper attention whore, he would have plenty to masterbate to tonight.

I may not always share views with our jackbooted Claver, but I think he is a wonderfully entertaining character. Attention whore insult threads are more of an assault on this forum than Swift, Shady or any other provocative poster. Shay, Vaga, CZ, and Hustler speak a lot of truth here in this thread.

[Swift]

Fuck Clave- no wait, fuck all INTP Central Admin .The insult-signature business is really taking off.

[SheepDog]

I may not always share views with our jackbooted Claver, but I think he is a wonderfully entertaining character. Attention whore insult threads are more of an assault on this forum than Swift, Shady or any other provocative poster. Shay, Vaga, CZ, and Hustler speak a lot of truth here in this thread.
agreed. (emphasis added)

[Vagabond]

The point was more that I'm NOT doing that

These people do censor, for fucks sakes, they've banned members before that is CENSORSHIP.

I don't see why removing racists is a bad thing, I really dont. Okay... *sigh* racism is an ideology. I find it disgusting, to make myself clear, but it is still an ideology. In my opinion, all ideologies should be free to be expressed, so that if they are crappy, their crappiness will be pointed out. Censoring them makes them the "victims" that we oppress because we don't like to hear the "truth". Let them say what they believe and kick their ass with arguments to show why their ideas suck. Don't make them heroes. That's one thing.

The bannings now, were on people that, after a number of warnings, wouldn't keep their insults/bitching/nuissance/whatever in one or two threads, but would constantly bring it on to practically the entire board, making it hard to ignore them. Even with the ignore button, every discussion was disrupted too much for anyone to follow. They were requested to keep it in one or two places, so that whoever didn't want to bother with it, could avoid it, and they didn't give a shit. So basically, edwin jefferson calling me a cunt in one thread is a "who gives a shit" thing for me, but popping in every other thread just to say who is what messed with the board's function. Just like the zedo/songbird fights, just like universal popping in every thread to say how INTPs suck. It interfered with this board's functioning. It was not about censoring what they said as much.

[Claverhouse]

And here I thought it had been calm for far too long.

I thank thee all.

Fastest-Growing thread on the Forum ever.

[Puffs with pride, thumbs stuck through uniform-jacket lapels]



If Claver was a proper attention whore, he would have plenty to masterbate to tonight.
I'm still awake, aren't I ?

Although I prefer proper jpgs.



Claverhouse :ph34r:

[CoHo]

Maybe rather then puffing with pride you could realise how pissed some people are and actually try and be a moderator for a few minutes. You know, actually solve the issue instead of being a fucking ass?

[Vagabond]

Although I prefer proper jpgs.



Claverhouse :ph34r: And that's as much detail as we can handle. :P

[Swift]

Maybe rather then puffing with pride you could realise how pissed some people are and actually try and be a moderator for a few minutes. You know, actually solve the issue instead of being a fucking ass?And what do you suggest him to do?

[Hustler]

Maybe rather then puffing with pride you could realise how pissed some people are and actually try and be a moderator for a few minutes. You know, actually solve the issue instead of being a fucking ass?

*Breaks out the umbrella and the raincoat in the face of all the crying*

[CoHo]

Hustler you should invite your friends, Swift you too

[Swift]

Fastest-Growing thread on the Forum ever.Crap! This is going to outdo my anti-abortion thread!

*Floods every other forum with racist-bigot-nonPC-suppremacist-rightwingultraconservative-nazi-warcrimes posts.*

;)

[Avengardh]

Fastest-Growing thread on the Forum ever.

[Puffs with pride, thumbs stuck through uniform-jacket lapels]

Claverhouse :ph34r:
We've seen some good times...*laughs*.

And I remember when I bashed you for being a Scorpio, nothing compared to this...:D

[Hustler]

Hustler you should invite your friends, Swift you too

Invite them to do what? See what a fool you are making of yourself? Nah, I think I'll spare them and you.

[Claverhouse]

Maybe rather then puffing with pride you could realise how pissed some people are and actually try and be a moderator for a few minutes. You know, actually solve the issue instead of being a fucking ass?
You mean, moderate your posts ? Na, that'd be censorship.

According to you the only way to solve the issue would be for me, Swift, Hustler, and everyone else you dislike to immediately resign from the forum.

And I don't care how pissed you are. That's not a moderating problem: that's your problem.



Claverhouse :ph34r:

[heeroyuy]

I wasn't sure where to put this, I think people would normally assume this should go in the bitching parlor, but again I disagree. This is an Essay from a Reliable Source and I would like to have an honest debate on the content. Some may consider this topic to be rude to some members of the forum, but I disagree, if they do not like the content they can simply ignore it!

I would prefer we do not sit around and argue about the merits of the author, or to quote Claverhouse: All information given out has inherent bias, there is no reason to condemn any source as being tainted.

The article:

Claverhouse is a Fucking Twit
Published by a reputable source, by a reputable author

Claverhouse, some people may consider this person a moron while others may consider him an idiot. To them I say "Nay!" He is actually a "Fucking Twit". To understand the slight differences between a Moron, Idiot and Fucking Twit we will first start with definitions;

Moron: a mildly mentally retarded person
It is obvious that Claverhouse has demonstrated himself to be much more then mildly retarded. So much so that the term Retarded may actually be most fitting, to this I concede that it still remains a possibility.

Idiot: a foolish or stupid person
While yes he is foolish and stupid, these are just additional characteristics of his persona. You could call him a Moronic Idiot, or even more closer to the point a Retarded Idiot, but simply calling him Retarded or Idiotic would be only selling half of his merits.

So why, one might ask, call him a Twit? The definition of Twit is “a silly annoying person” and taken on face value it looks as though to make him out to actually be less retarded and less stupid then he really is!

On the contrary, lets look at Claverhouse’s history as an administrator:

1) Calling a suicide note a fake even though he wasn’t sure
I start with this one because I think it is the most amusing. When a forum member posted a suicide note Claverhouse immediately alluded that it was probably a fake suicide note. Even though it had other forum members up in arms praying for the safety of the poster Claverhouse refused to remove the thread.

Rather then remove the thread he then admitted that he REALLY DIDN’T KNOW EITHER WAY! Isn’t that silly? Normally such an action would get a moderator removed from a forum, but he wasn’t. Isn’t that annoying?

2) Siding with a racist and banning other members
Claverhouse likes to suggest that he is open to all thoughts and that this forum should be as free as possible. Then why does he agree with the banning of a member that 80% of the forum (according to the poll) actually didn’t want to be banned?

On the other hand, now he is protecting a racist despite the fact that not a fraction of members like him.

As you can see, his retarded idiotic nature is overshadowed by a desperate need to be annoying and silly. Therefore the “fucking twit” was added to enhance what would normally be a “twit”.

Please discuss, keep in mind I will only listen to reputable sources, this is not a place for opinions.


Now that we're in the bitching parlor, to be frank I think you're full of shit and just angry and wanting to bitch.

He has power, but not to an extreme, and the admins have oversight. What he says is still his responsibility, he is held to slightly higher standards, but he can say whatever he will, he wasn't put on because he is personable or anything else, but because he knows how to get things done and do his job. Noticed you aren't banned yet, CorporateWhore? Wanna know why? Because we do our jobs. As an admin, I can still say, that you're full of shit, as I did above, and not be removed because it's freedom of speech :).

At the same time, he couldn't remove the thread because he wasn't sure, why in the hell does that mean he should be removed from power? He admits he doesn't know instead of guessing, OMFG NO WE'RE ALL GONNA DIE PANIC KTHXBYE seems to be the attitude you'd like us to take. I, for one, applaud the fact tht people can say "I don't know" for that is when people learn, and that is when people are less likely to fuck up.

Just my $1.20.

[Winterpark]

It was mentioned in this thread earlier, so it made me wondering. Does anyone know what happened to Stem ? Seriously.

[CoHo]

And I don't care how pissed you are. That's not a moderating problem: that's your problem.

Yeah, I guess you're right, it is just me. Long live the racists and assholes! Maybe if you work hard enough you'll get all the n... I'm sorry, african americans out of here Claverhouse!

oh, fuck you

[heeroyuy]

Maybe rather then puffing with pride you could realise how pissed some people are and actually try and be a moderator for a few minutes. You know, actually solve the issue instead of being a fucking ass?

Or rather than fueling the flame you could calm down and approach an administrator through the proper channnel as you should've done to begin with, and actually see what you can get done. If we choose not to act, that's our choice, not yours, and you can continue your flame speil here with a (oddly) clear conscience, but honestly I see no point in this other than "OMFG I KNOW, I DON'T LIKE SOMETHING SO I'LL HAVE A WHO CAN SCREAM THE LOUDEST CONTEST TO FIX IT, OMFG YESZ0R!" much in the classic script kiddie way. Perhaps you're just angry about this, a great deal more than I'm reading, and need to get it out. I don't really understand why, but if this is the case, than by all means, whatever, but you're just coming off as a fool, and...well, that's your choice I suppose *shrugs*.

[Swift]

"OMFG I KNOW, I DON'T LIKE SOMETHING SO I'LL HAVE A WHO CAN SCREAM THE LOUDEST CONTEST TO FIX IT, OMFG YESZ0R!" :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

[heeroyuy]

(Sorry, just practicing for the next flame...) *riposte* *parry*

[CoHo]

Now that we're in the bitching parlor, to be frank I think you're full of shit and just angry and wanting to bitch.

Huh, the last time you made any contribution to this forum was on 05-15-2005... yet you come out of the woodwork to defend a moderator.

Since you are contributing again maybe you can answer my initial question:

Apparently it is okay for Swift to post articles from Stormfront can I post some other choice articles from those websites (IE God hates faggots, niggers, and jews?).

It is okay if I insult a group of people, just as long as I don't insult an individual?

[heeroyuy]

Huh, the last time you made any contribution to this forum was on 05-15-2005... yet you come out of the woodwork to defend a moderator.

Since you are contributing again maybe you can answer my initial question:

Apparently it is okay for Swift to post articles from Stormfront can I post some other choice articles from those websites (IE God hates faggots, niggers, and jews?).

It is okay if I insult a group of people, just as long as I don't insult an individual?

I'm not making a broad comment about life, the universe, and everything, I'm just talking about you in relation to this article. I don't care about your opinion quite honestly, and you have every right to speak it I suppose, but don't think for a moment that I won't say whatever I think about it.

In response to your personal attack on me-yes, I'd have to say that I haven't been here for awhile, but I've been watching over it. Just because I don't post doesn't mean I don't contribute. Ever wonder who makes sure the forums actually keep running? Make sure that the 5 gigabytes per week of bandwidth this sucker guzzles keeps flowing? That's me. That gives me no right or power other than a normal person though, so don't try to say "OMFG HE'S REPRESSING ME" because I'm not. I just personally think you're an asshat, or at least acting like one, this might just be one of your sensitive spots :).

Yes, I do have a problem when you insult an individual, insulting a group is a different thing. Insulting a group is nonspecific and not meant to hurt an individual, but the entire group, and usually it's easier for a group to muster a defense providing a mob isn't against them. In the case of an individual, chances are they'll be lynched, as it's much easier to turn a mob against an individual in cases such as these.

Also, this has escalated to something incredibly stupid and beyond what it should be, and my friend pointed me to this stupidity. Frankly, I don't post nearly as often (I still read though) because of people like you who see no point but in constantly bitching and creating worthless drama for your righteous causes. I won't take away or say you shouldn't have this right though, as frankly we need people like you to keep a balance and keep us from becoming weirdo authoritarians, but that doesn't mean I like you :).

That's just my opinion though...

[Claverhouse]

Yeah, I guess you're right, it is just me. Long live the racists and assholes! Maybe if you work hard enough you'll get all the n... I'm sorry, african americans out of here Claverhouse!

oh, fuck you

Again you are attributing to me beliefs and desires I don't have, and have never expressed. Presumably you think if you repeat things long enough other people will believe it.

And I don't live in America.



Claverhouse :ph34r:

[heeroyuy]

We are at war with Eurasia, and have always been at war with Eurasia. Long live The Party!

[Swift]

I think it would be a pity if this thread would be deleted.

[CoHo]

Again you are attributing to me beliefs and desires I don't have, and have never expressed. Presumably you think if you repeat things long enough other people will believe it.

That's right you're one of those stupid-ass-fuck-Englishmen*

*A general comment that shouldn’t insult any individual

[Vagabond]

*A general comment that shouldn’t insult any individual Addressed to one particular person, and this way made a personal insult.

Just clarifying.

[Swift]

That's right you're one of those stupid-ass-fuck-Englishmen*

*A general comment that shouldn’t insult any individualSingling out individuals isn't permitted either.

[CoHo]

Singling out individuals isn't permitted either.

You're right, I should stick with the niggers and faggots comments, it is general and doesn't insult anyone.

[CoHo]

So to make it clear, I'm sorry I called Claverhouse a stupid-ass-fuck-Englishmen

I should have said "According to Stormfront Englishmen should be treated with the same regard as Niggers, or white women who date niggers"

[Swift]

You're right, I should stick with the niggers and faggots comments, it is general and doesn't insult anyone.I never used words like nigger or faggot, nor did I said they should be treated differently. On the contrary, why should blacks, homosexuals or jews be exempt from any criticism?

[Claverhouse]

That's right you're one of those stupid-ass-fuck-Englishmen*

*A general comment that shouldn’t insult any individual

It doesn't. If someone hates the English, even in the good old-fashioned Irish-American tradition, it doesn't bother me. Or if they hate the Irish. Or the Finns. If they actually start putting bombs around it does.

I find nationality irrelevant, anyway.


Claverhouse :ph34r:

[Star]

Hey mods: this could all be settled with a fresh, new FCME poll and a promise to ban the top 3. :]

[Claverhouse]

Hey mods: this could all be settled with a fresh, new FCME poll and a promise to ban the top 3. :]

Geez, you never worked out who the most fucking capitalist members ever were ?



Claverhouse :ph34r:

[Last Song]

This forum has been [comparatively] shit since the banning of EZ. Certain people in this thread are "fucking twits". (Is that allowed? I didn't specify anyone ... and those to whom it was intended will probably ignore it or not realise that I mean them...)

*stab*

Oh, and a suggestion for Deepsky's (eventual) title: > Claverhouse

... where is this thread going now? I read through most of it ... pretty fucking ridiculous.

Swift = knowingly deviant/offensive (It isn't like once known to be offending others, he stopped posting "his" opinions [or rather, other people's controversial opinions/work] ... but instead keeps posting it with the simple purpose of being deviant/offensive ... the "success" of pissing members off once seems to have inspired more posting ... which seems closer to trolling than searching for a rational conversation ...)

Claverhouse = inherently right

Hustler = same as Claverhouse

*hopes for a bitching thread battle between these three ... fight to the death; +ban for survivor(s)*

Q: What is there on this forum which is worth joining for? (serious question)

There is a lot of ridiculous shit on this forum ... and a small group of members posting sarcastic parodies of this ridiculous shit. That is all I have left. And laughing at threads like these. The drama of this forum is higher than that of the "Feeling" filled atmosphere of Ncentral. "Thinking" conflicts are hilarious. Maybe *that* is what is worth joining for? Observing the drama of threads such as this?

Very meh.

[mgb]

I am quite all right with posters putting up links which say anything other than child-porn or sado-masochism. That's their affair. I don't have to look at the sights nor read their posts. If though, a poster uses such offensive language then the poster can be warned off or banned; and his posts deleted. Other than a few trolls nobody has.


Claverhouse :ph34r:

Whoa. So child-porn isn't allowed and neither is S&M stuff, but anti-homosexual, anti-every other fucking race but white is allowed?

This is contrary to everything you've been saying. Apparently we get babied here, but only to an extent. Fucking ridiculous.

I can see why that stuff isn't allowed, I'm not saying it should be, but who decides where the line gets drawn and why does it get drawn there? From everything I've read from the post anything you want side, child porn should be allowed because we are all adult enough to be able to ignore it.

[Division56]

This forum is cyclic... it moves, changes... becomes new. But it never really changes.

People come, people go. New and old people play the sames roles over and over again.

None of it is original. All the things in this thread have happened before, and they will happen again. Let us hope we gain wisdom from this endless dance.

[Miss Anthropic]

But what REALLY happened to Uptopmk/stem?

[SheepDog]

This forum is cyclic... it moves, changes... becomes new. But it never really changes.

People come, people go. New and old people play the sames roles over and over again.

None of it is original. All the things in this thread have happened before, and they will happen again. Let us hope we gain wisdom from this endless dance.
No doubt, this is familiar. Not sure about the wisdom, though. Might be just wishful thinking.

[heeroyuy]

Whoa. So child-porn isn't allowed and neither is S&M stuff, but anti-homosexual, anti-every other fucking race but white is allowed?

This is contrary to everything you've been saying. Apparently we get babied here, but only to an extent. Fucking ridiculous.

I can see why that stuff isn't allowed, I'm not saying it should be, but who decides where the line gets drawn and why does it get drawn there? From everything I've read from the post anything you want side, child porn should be allowed because we are all adult enough to be able to ignore it.

Child porn is not allowed because it's illegal, and we could get in serious trouble if we don't remove it.

[Last Song]

I think that was his point ...

[mgb]

Child porn is not allowed because it's illegal, and we could get in serious trouble if we don't remove it.

Actually, where I live, hate speech is illegal.

Seems like in the name of free speech and personal liberty we should be able to post whatever we want right? I mean, since we are all grown ups and able to decipher between good and bad.

Seems like you have a line in the sand already, you are just unwilling to change it to accommodate the membership.

[Architectonic]

This is what I have learned:

If I insult a group of people it is okay

If I insult an individual it is bad

So in response to that: Fuck all administrators on INTP Central

*banned*

Inconsistent moderation bites you on the ass.

[Architectonic]

I think the Zedo contingent is just being unfairly biased towards their "old boy." I don't see too many people saying "bring Songbird back." You don't care about fairness, you just want the people who you like to be here and the ones you don't like to be gone.

I say bring them both back. Only if they choose to do so of course.

[Swift]

Actually, where I live, hate speech is illegal. That's not the only thing that's illegal where you live.


http://www.bitoffun.com/stupid_laws_Canada.htm

It is illegal for a man to drink with a woman in an Edmonton beer parlor in (Alberta.)

It is unlawful to throw snowballs or set off firecrackers within the city, without the authorization of the mayor or City Council. (Calgary)

All bicycle riders must signal with the arm before making a turn, and a bicycle rider must keep both hands on the handlebars at all times" ( Edmonton. )

In Canada, It is illegal for a teen to walk down main street with their shoes untied. (Fort Qu'Appelle)

It is illegal to try and catch fish with your hands (Saskatoon. )

You are not allowed to saw wood on the streets, or wash your automobile in (Toronto.)

Theater owners are forbidden to start a movie that will end after 2 am. (Toronto.)

You are not allowed to play a musical instrument in a park in (Windsor, Ontario)

A by-law forbids anyone from striking the sidewalk with a metal object (Winnipeg. )

It is against the law to go naked in your own home if you leave the blinds up. (Winnipeg)

8O

[heeroyuy]

Actually, where I live, hate speech is illegal.

Seems like in the name of free speech and personal liberty we should be able to post whatever we want right? I mean, since we are all grown ups and able to decipher between good and bad.

Seems like you have a line in the sand already, you are just unwilling to change it to accommodate the membership.

Could they prosecute you for hosting it? Hm? It's not a fucking line in the sand you asshole, it's called I COULD BE PROSECUTED. I'm responsible, I know what's on this site and as such anything posted I could, in theory, be held responsible for if I knew it was there and didn't remove it. Granted-if I didn't know it was there they probably wouldn't do much other than-oh, I don't know, confiscate my copany's equipment and such?

When you fucking host something and know the slightest bit what I mean, then you can complain. Until then, cool your jets. It's not my call.

[shaytana]

But what REALLY happened to Uptopmk/stem?

fc talked to his mom on IM who confirmed that he was fine

[nonsequitur]

to tell the truth, i've seen this happening on many other message boards too. where is it necessary to draw the line? personally, i simply refuse to read anything that swift posts, and if i see any threads that are inherently racist/bigoted etc, i simply don't participate as a means of demonstrating what i think of the thread - that it means nothing to me, logically and emotionally. the people expressing hate-type views are most of the time simply emotionally immature, and it's not my business to convince them of their immaturity. they will fall flat on their faces later on in life - such is what my parents teach me.

i'm actually a relatively new member to the forum, as you all probably can tell. so i probably can tell you what i think as a new member. i don't think this forum is any better or worse than any other forum on the 'net. there will always be small-minded, insular people around posting ridiculous stuff and trolling. just because a member is new doesn't mean that he/she doesn't know the ways of the web. i see the racist threads, and being of a minority race, i've gone through racist stuff and prejudice too. it's nothing new to me. i may be offended by swift's views, but in no way do i take them to reflect the views of the admin, or those in the forum. in fact, i had no idea that claverhouse is a mod. well, mostly because i don't really give a damn whether he's a mod or not. mods and admins can be snarky, and can have opinions. often, opinions are taken out of context, and sometimes, people do things that, in retrospect, probably wasn't the wisest thing to do. but instead of attacking them directly like that, i personally think what would've been more effective would've been a PM, and your views in a civilised manner.

Name-calling is something that I don't appreciate in this forum as a member, new or otherwise. In other fora, expletives are often blocked out, but here, it's not, and it's often used to humourous purposes - something that i think is great. but personal attacks, and name calling are things that would drive me away far more than any of swift's threads. it indicates that people here can't express their views as normal human beings do, in a reasonable manner.

I don't know what the point of my posting this is, to tell the truth. I just think people get so caught up in their ideas of what is right/wrong that it's impossible to see the other side of the picture - and so the issue is unresolvable. I would also like to say that hate-comments etc are illegal in my country, both home and present resident one. but i've definitely come across racist people there, and they aren't prosecuted or anything. hate will always be around, manifested in different forms, felt by people who don't know better. i'm not trying to be condescending, that's truly what i feel because i used to hate certain groups of people too, and i'm still far from being unprejudiced. just because these people aren't being prosecuted doesn't mean that the nation is tolerant of such views. there are many other external factors to consider. and in the case of people being prosecuted just because they hold different political views, or oppose the current state of government, let me just say that my home country would be an excellent example of a non-functioning democracy. sure, we don't have extremists and all, but we also don't have a functioning opposition. everyone behaves the same way and believes the same things. life there is extraordinarily boring. this forum is more interesting with a variety of views and people around, i still maintain. and if people having such views is lawful, and doesn't get the board shut down, why not? it provides amusement.

[Swift]

personally, i simply refuse to read anything that swift posts

(...)

i may be offended by swift's viewsTalking about prejudice...

[nonsequitur]

i'm still far from being unprejudiced.

I never said that I'm unprejudiced, and i have evidence for that. My refusal to read what you say has nothing to do with you personally. From experience, I know that I'm going to disagree violently with what you say, and I choose not to make an effort to attempt to dissuade you from your views, because obviously that is impossible at this point in time. Hence, I choose not to read it, since there is no point to reading things that will get me upset, and that I know from experience to be untrue. It is an informed choice, and I honestly do not need to explain my choices to you - I choose to do so, so as to promote understanding of motive. Also, I don't think wading through those countless posts of yours will give me any more insight into how decadent my race or other races are, and how the problems of X nations can basically be blamed on a race. I do not believe in such simplistic politics, and don't think such views will contribute to my overall political stand, since I've heard them before, and find them to generally be of the nature of insult, and do not propose any real, practical solutions to the political, social and economic problems.

This is the first time I'm responding to any of your posts, because I feel a need to clarify my stand. I accept that you hold your views, and I will not be able to change your mind. However, I accept your right to hold those views, and post them on the forum. That was always my stand, and it will continue to be so.

[meshou]

Originally Posted by nonsequitur
personally, i simply refuse to read anything that swift posts

(...)

i may be offended by swift's views
Talking about prejudice...So horrible.

"I have a dream that my four children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the content of their character, but by the the color of their skin."

[tragula]

I once had a teacher who got very emotional talking to a class about how certain views were being permitted to be aired. She argued that people had fought long and hard to set people straight, and that these views were like a poison that could infect society.

I think there must have been a generational gap. Because a majority of the students were comfortable with at least discussing the ideas.

I think there is a moral there. Ideas may be dangerous. But suppressing ideas is even more dangerous.

Just think of the truth as a light. It is best to shine it on dark corners and reveal what is really there.

As to Corporate Whore's intellectual problem of insulting groups of people. It is a good one. A bit of a loophole. I will take a crack at it and suggest that it boils down to semantic issues. For example. Saying "I hate all INTPs" is a statement that would include ALL members of the group. As such it is hate speech and imo it should not be permitted. (I am using type examples because they are innocuous.) Saying "I think most INTPs are whiny losers" Is a qualified statement. It includes evidence that it is only that persons' opinion and that it does not include ALL members. As such, obnoxious as it is (which through repetition would be disruptive) I think it should be permitted.

It also points to the inherent problems of Fe, which motivates group membership. Which is why in the ultimately pc world people would not form group allegiances to begin with!

Still. An interesting conundrum.

[Star]

Could they prosecute you for hosting it? Hm? It's not a fucking line in the sand you asshole, it's called I COULD BE PROSECUTED. I'm responsible, I know what's on this site and as such anything posted I could, in theory, be held responsible for if I knew it was there and didn't remove it. Granted-if I didn't know it was there they probably wouldn't do much other than-oh, I don't know, confiscate my copany's equipment and such?

When you fucking host something and know the slightest bit what I mean, then you can complain. Until then, cool your jets. It's not my call.
Hey, guess what. You're not the only person in the world with some bandwidth, server space and sysadmin skills. Get over yourself.

[Claverhouse]

Hey, guess what. You're not the only person in the world with some bandwidth, server space and sysadmin skills. Get over yourself.

But he's the only one hosting intpcentral...

If we ever need an urgent replacement we might call on you.



Claverhouse :ph34r:

[mgb]

Could they prosecute you for hosting it? Hm? It's not a fucking line in the sand you asshole, it's called I COULD BE PROSECUTED. I'm responsible, I know what's on this site and as such anything posted I could, in theory, be held responsible for if I knew it was there and didn't remove it. Granted-if I didn't know it was there they probably wouldn't do much other than-oh, I don't know, confiscate my copany's equipment and such?

When you fucking host something and know the slightest bit what I mean, then you can complain. Until then, cool your jets. It's not my call.

Did you just call me an asshole you little prick? Did I ever call you an asshole? Did I imply we should begin having a section for child porn? No, you stupid little fuck, I didn't.

I think you are missing the glaringly obvious here. At some point the people running the site decided the risk of having child porn wasn't worth the risk of prosecution. But it probably wasn't just that was it? No, someone probably also decided that there is no need for child porn on this site as it would not only be illegal, but highly inappropriate. I am saying there is other highly inappropriate things for this site and they don't have a place here.

[Claverhouse]

Did you just call me an asshole you little prick? Did I ever call you an asshole? Did I imply we should begin having a section for child porn? No, you stupid little fuck, I didn't.

I think you are missing the glaringly obvious here. At some point the people running the site decided the risk of having child porn wasn't worth the risk of prosecution. But it probably wasn't just that was it? No, someone probably also decided that there is no need for child porn on this site as it would not only be illegal, but highly inappropriate. I am saying there is other highly inappropriate things for this site and they don't have a place here.
Or perhaps it doesn't really occur to rational people to allow child porn, whether or not it's legal. As indeed it is in many non-western cultures.

No-one Here Gets Out Alive


Napoleon mgbradsh enters a night-club, preceded by Squealer CorporateWhore, and followed by his dogs:

"Right ! I want to see the anti-fascist credentials of all the people in this club who came in earlier. You're out ! You're out, and you, and you."

Dogs yip madly and growl in agreement.

"Now, things will be done very differently, comrades. No member shall be allowed to post anything I object to. I shall decide the content and membership of this place. I shall have the final word on all decisions over banning and running this place. This is freedom, as much freedom as is good for you. For so it was laid down by the glorious anti-fascist, anti-racist freedom-fighter Pol Pot, whose wise words and actions guide me. Forward to the New Dawn !"


An even more cogent comparison would be to a reference useless for non-British people. There's a sinister quite unpleasant comedy series called 'The League of Gentlemen' over here. Two of the characters, not wholly unsympathetic and to be sure, well-meaning according to their lights, who own the Local Shop in Royston Vasey, 'A Local Shop For Local People'. They really don't like opinions or actions contrary to their own beliefs. mgbradsh is Edward, the martinet proprietor 'We'll have no trouble here !", and CorpWhore is a dead ringer for Tubs, his wife, fearful and angry, unable to comprehend other's views.



Claverhouse :ph34r:

[mgb]

Or perhaps it doesn't really occur to rational people to allow child porn, whether or not it's legal. As indeed it is in many non-western cultures.

No-one Here Gets Out Alive


Napoleon mgbradsh enters a night-club, preceded by Squealer CorporateWhore, and followed by his dogs:

"Right ! I want to see the anti-fascist credentials of all the people in this club who came in earlier. You're out ! You're out, and you, and you."

Dogs yip madly and growl in agreement.

"Now, things will be done very differently, comrades. No member shall be allowed to post anything I object to. I shall decide the content and membership of this place. I shall have the final word on all decisions over banning and running this place. This is freedom, as much freedom as is good for you. For so it was laid down by the glorious anti-fascist, anti-racist freedom-fighter Pol Pot, whose wise words and actions guide me. Forward to the New Dawn !"


An even more cogent comparison would be to a reference useless for non-British people. There's a sinister quite unpleasant comedy series called 'The League of Gentlemen' over here. Two of the characters, not wholly unsympathetic and to be sure, well-meaning according to their lights, who own the Local Shop in Royston Vasey, 'A Local Shop For Local People'. They really don't like opinions or actions contrary to their own beliefs. mgbradsh is Edward, the martinet proprietor 'We'll have no trouble here !", and CorpWhore is a dead ringer for Tubs, his wife, fearful and angry, unable to comprehend other's views.



Claverhouse :ph34r:

That's quite a retarded little parody you have there. Really impressive, you should be a writer, or even a blogger, I think you really have what it takes.

Aparently, you and your ilk decide the content of this place and hardly my comrades and I. Mind you, I haven't seen any of us participating in or defending any "executions" lately. Kind of makes me wonder who the thought police really are around here.

[heeroyuy]

Hey, guess what. You're not the only person in the world with some bandwidth, server space and sysadmin skills. Get over yourself.

I am over myself, what I'm not over is the fact that apparently people don't seem to realize that there are limits to what can go on by the law because of the fact that I'm the host and I don't want to go to prison or get fined. This site isn't for child porn because of that reason, no other, mgbradsh says we have moral things, fuck you, and yes, I think you're an asshole, that's a personal opinion, if you think I'm a prick, cool, that's your opinion, I won't try to change it, not my problem :). You can't prove that it's a moral judgement, it's not. I think child porn is wrong, I think hate speak is wrong too, but I don't stop things that aren't illegal.

[garak]

I pretty much lost interest in fighting any "battles" here, and I have to say I really haven't even been following what's going on. But I can say a few things:

1)


When you fucking host something and know the slightest bit what I mean, then you can complain.
I don't even know what exactly was said before this post, but I've hosted stuff, and I really couldn't care less. Obviously if I found out that there was child porn on my machine/account, I'd delete it, but other than that, I have enough faith in common sense and probability to not really worry much.

2) I can't say I have any impression of claverhouse's personality whatsoever, despite all of my time spent on these forums. So either he's incredibly boring, or I just don't relate to him very well or something.

3) I hate when people "sign" some stupid signature on every post on forums, and thankfully most people here seem to agree. It lowers my opinion of claverhouse, although like I said, I don't really have much of one. Don't take this as me hating him by any stretch of the imagination -- hatred is a very active thing.

[garak]

p.s. heero, YOU cool your jets, you get way too worked up over stupid stuff.

[heeroyuy]

I'm not really that worked up, that's why I still have a sense of humor about it :) I'm just quite blunt, if I think people are being idiots, I say so, if they think I'm an idiot, it's cool. It's possible that something just set them off, in which case my opinion will probably change :).

I agree with you by the way-that's why I stay out of content moderation, but I'm trying to explain myself. What I mean is that, when you host things and you see things like child porn and whatnot, you can't allow it, and when people are constantly posting pictures and have little accountability, you still aren't paranoid, but you can't allow things that are openly illegal which you know about to remain, you said that yourself. That's all I mean-the liability involved.

[garak]

I'm not really that worked up, that's why I still have a sense of humor about it :)
You got a funny way of showing it. I think anyone reading the post in which you called mgbradsh an asshole would think you were quite worked up.

[heeroyuy]

Oh, it wasn't meant that way, I was just trying to emphasize the point that he isn't considering liability-and at that time I was slightly worked up, mostly because he was implicating emotional considerations which are nonexistent. I thought you meant now.

Also-don't misunderstand, when I call people asshats/assholes, it just means their coming off as one, I come off that way sometimes too I'm sure. It's nothing personal really, I try to avoid it unless I think people are just being trite and foolish. Once again-but that's just personal opinion, people are welcome to think the same about me, yadda yadda.

[Division56]

You got a funny way of showing it. I think anyone reading the post in which you called mgbradsh an asshole would think you were quite worked up.

It's all relative... mgb runs around like someone has been slipping Premarin in his coffee.

[garak]

It's all relative... mgb runs around like someone has been slipping Premarin in his coffee.
Sure but that doesn't magically cause heero to act completely different. I was talking about heero in general, not JUST his post(s) in this thread.

[heeroyuy]

*gets some rope and a steak* Okay, let's get it over with, you get the flame fellas! :) (kidding, I hope). I explained it to you on IRC I think garak, if not ask for more or repost it here *shrugs*.

[Star]

I pretty much lost interest in fighting any "battles" here, and I have to say I really haven't even been following what's going on. But I can say a few things:

1)


I don't even know what exactly was said before this post, but I've hosted stuff, and I really couldn't care less. Obviously if I found out that there was child porn on my machine/account, I'd delete it, but other than that, I have enough faith in common sense and probability to not really worry much.

2) I can't say I have any impression of claverhouse's personality whatsoever, despite all of my time spent on these forums. So either he's incredibly boring, or I just don't relate to him very well or something.

3) I hate when people "sign" some stupid signature on every post on forums, and thankfully most people here seem to agree. It lowers my opinion of claverhouse, although like I said, I don't really have much of one. Don't take this as me hating him by any stretch of the imagination -- hatred is a very active thing.


*cough* ISTP.

Takes a litte N to "get" Claverhouse. Sorry that you seem to lack it. You might get more out of detailing your pickup truck or licking Hustler or Hypnos's boots.

[garak]

*cough* ISTP.

Takes a litte N to "get" Claverhouse. Sorry that you seem to lack it. You might get more out of detailing your pickup truck or licking Hustler or Hypnos's boots.
*laugh*

N? I thought MBTI was bullshit?

I'm not too good about cleaning my cars, but I did change my distributor cap today! 8O

[Swift]

My refusal to read what you say has nothing to do with you personally. From experience, I know that I'm going to disagree violently with what you say, and I choose not to make an effort to attempt to dissuade you from your views, because obviously that is impossible at this point in time. Hence, I choose not to read it, since there is no point to reading things that will get me upset, and that I know from experience to be untrue.Yes, but how can you possibly know what I've said if you don't read my posts? It's a real mystery for me.

[ohnoaninfp]

I wasn't sure where to put this, I think people would normally assume this should go in the bitching parlor, but again I disagree. This is an Essay from a Reliable Source and I would like to have an honest debate on the content. Some may consider this topic to be rude to some members of the forum, but I disagree, if they do not like the content they can simply ignore it!

I would prefer we do not sit around and argue about the merits of the author, or to quote Claverhouse: All information given out has inherent bias, there is no reason to condemn any source as being tainted.

The article:

Claverhouse is a Fucking Twit
Published by a reputable source, by a reputable author

Claverhouse, some people may consider this person a moron while others may consider him an idiot. To them I say "Nay!" He is actually a "Fucking Twit". To understand the slight differences between a Moron, Idiot and Fucking Twit we will first start with definitions;

Moron: a mildly mentally retarded person
It is obvious that Claverhouse has demonstrated himself to be much more then mildly retarded. So much so that the term Retarded may actually be most fitting, to this I concede that it still remains a possibility.

Idiot: a foolish or stupid person
While yes he is foolish and stupid, these are just additional characteristics of his persona. You could call him a Moronic Idiot, or even more closer to the point a Retarded Idiot, but simply calling him Retarded or Idiotic would be only selling half of his merits.

So why, one might ask, call him a Twit? The definition of Twit is “a silly annoying person” and taken on face value it looks as though to make him out to actually be less retarded and less stupid then he really is!

On the contrary, lets look at Claverhouse’s history as an administrator:

1) Calling a suicide note a fake even though he wasn’t sure
I start with this one because I think it is the most amusing. When a forum member posted a suicide note Claverhouse immediately alluded that it was probably a fake suicide note. Even though it had other forum members up in arms praying for the safety of the poster Claverhouse refused to remove the thread.

Rather then remove the thread he then admitted that he REALLY DIDN’T KNOW EITHER WAY! Isn’t that silly? Normally such an action would get a moderator removed from a forum, but he wasn’t. Isn’t that annoying?

2) Siding with a racist and banning other members
Claverhouse likes to suggest that he is open to all thoughts and that this forum should be as free as possible. Then why does he agree with the banning of a member that 80% of the forum (according to the poll) actually didn’t want to be banned?

On the other hand, now he is protecting a racist despite the fact that not a fraction of members like him.

As you can see, his retarded idiotic nature is overshadowed by a desperate need to be annoying and silly. Therefore the “fucking twit” was added to enhance what would normally be a “twit”.

Please discuss, keep in mind I will only listen to reputable sources, this is not a place for opinions.


How is he a racist. Just a ? of curiosity.

[ohnoaninfp]

This is what I have learned:

If I insult a group of people it is okay

If I insult an individual it is bad

So in response to that: Fuck all administrators on INTP Central
Why do you have to insult anybody?

[nonsequitur]

Yes, but how can you possibly know what I've said if you don't read my posts? It's a real mystery for me.

like i said, from experience. in my experiences so far with your posts - those which i have read, but not bothered to respond to, none of them have enlightened me in any way and they reflect a very shallow view of the world. you can post 100 threads about different subjects, but unless you change your perspective and your framing of the topics, there's nothing to be gained. it reflects a very very simple view on the world, and the emphasis is more on finger-pointing than any practical suggestion, like i said.

[garak]

Why do you have to insult anybody?
Because he's an asshole, you moron.

[ohnoaninfp]

For the record, I would like to see swift banned. His racist threads are very offensive. I haven't piped in much because I'd worry my inferior Fe might kick in, my blood might boil, and then some asshole would say, "Uh, you got mad so you must not be INTP."

I don't have a beef with young claverhouse or w/ moderation/administration here generally. In fact, I very much aprreciate that you all do what you do. But I am beginning to believe that some measures of .. er "quality control" might be a good thing. Like many of the members have been acknowledging, intpc seems to have become a somewhat uninspiring and hostile place to post -- maybe unnecessarily so?
DON'T EVER FEEL INFERIOR BECAUSE YOU ARE NOT AN INTP! INTPs are no better than any other type. I am an INFP and I do not believe that I am inferior. So don't be afraid to post complaints.

[mgb]

DON'T EVER FEEL INFERIOR BECAUSE YOU ARE NOT AN INTP! INTPs are no better than any other type. I am an INFP and I do not believe that I am inferior. So don't be afraid to post complaints.

Jesus Christ. s0523's Fe is an inferior function, like for all INTPs.

[ohnoaninfp]

still i don't don't see why he should b afraid to complain.

[s]

Ok, don't make me whip out the "J" insults. Let it go, gentlemen.

[/armchair moderates]

http://www.intpcentral.com/uploads/fmas2476.jpg

[garak]

still i don't don't see why he should b afraid to complain.
she

[Architectonic]

Talking about prejudice...

Yes, most of us ignore you, simply because you are an idiot.

[s0978]

Hm. Well, ironically, I was saying that I was "afraid" to "complain" because people here seem to not have such a great understanding of type, neither type in general nor the INTP type.

That said, I'm sorry, ohno, but INTPs *are* better than all the other types put together. :)

[Swift]

Yes, most of us ignore you, simply because you are an idiot. :lol: Like I care what you think of me. ;P

[mgb]

:lol: Like I care what you think of me. ;P

You obviously do since you replied you dumb little fuck.

[heeroyuy]

You obviously do since you replied you dumb little fuck.

You always make me smile. Before I reread some posts in this thread I was actually somewhat annoyed at some events in the world. Now I'm more amused. Thank you all.

[mgb]

You always make me smile. Before I reread some posts in this thread I was actually somewhat annoyed at some events in the world. Now I'm more amused. Thank you all.

You guys moved this to the Bitching Parlour, why show restraint?



Whoa. So child-porn isn't allowed and neither is S&M stuff, but anti-homosexual, anti-every other fucking race but white is allowed?

This is contrary to everything you've been saying. Apparently we get babied here, but only to an extent. Fucking ridiculous.

I can see why that stuff isn't allowed, I'm not saying it should be, but who decides where the line gets drawn and why does it get drawn there? From everything I've read from the "post anything you want side," child porn should be allowed because we are all adult enough to be able to ignore it.

[meshou]

From what I understand, he would allow child porn. But he doesn't want to be arrested.

[mgb]

From what I understand, he would allow child porn. But he doesn't want to be arrested.

It's interesting actually. I was just doing some reading and it looks like the police and FBI have made a few arrests lately across several states with regard to hate-fuelled violence. Given the potential for violence, I wonder if hate propaganda isn't something they are starting to take a closer look at on websites?

Not my problem I guess.

[meshou]

It's interesting actually. I was just doing some reading and it looks like the police and FBI have made a few arrests lately across several states with regard to hate-fuelled violence. Given the potential for violence, I wonder if hate propaganda isn't something they are starting to take a closer look at on websites?

Not my problem I guess.
Defenitely.

But I think they're the sorts of websites that Swift links to, not the sites linking to them.

If you look the websites up on rickross.com, you can find quite a few articles on who those people have lynched recently.

[Lee]

Look at the bright side, if hate propoganda did not exist or get posted here then you couldn't have had this 'wonderful' thread... life would be so much more boring. What do I think? keep the rascism and keep the complaining of it, it'll all work out about right in the end somehow.

Please continue...

[garak]

Any idiot can understand that child porn should be deleted as quickly as possible. S&M is legal and a completely different story, but child porn, DUH, it's ILLEGAL.

[meshou]

Any idiot can understand that child porn should be deleted as quickly as possible. S&M is legal and a completely different story, but child porn, DUH, it's ILLEGAL.Well, there's also the rape of children involved in it. But the illegality is the uuuh... important part.

But yes, why not S&M? Personal squick on the part of the mods?

[garak]

It's interesting actually. I was just doing some reading and it looks like the police and FBI have made a few arrests lately across several states with regard to hate-fuelled violence. Given the potential for violence, I wonder if hate propaganda isn't something they are starting to take a closer look at on websites?

Not my problem I guess.
Nothing illegal about hating people, just acting on it.

[garak]

Well, there's also the rape of children involved in it. But the illegality is the uuuh... important part.

I think it's as sick as anyone, but is it illegal because it's sick, or is it sick because it's illegal?

[mgb]

Nothing illegal about hating people, just acting on it.

People have to get their "acting on it" ideas from somewhere....It's not just the Turner Diaries anymore.

And the way Homeland Security and the FBI act these days...well I wouldn't be surprised if they are inspecting everything they can get their eyes on to decide potential viability for terrorism. But like I said, not my problem.

[Vagabond]

Swift's idiotic ideas about races considered as potential threat for terrorism? Um... I think not. You are being irrational because you can't get your way now.

[mgb]

Swift's idiotic ideas about races considered as potential threat for terrorism? Um... I think not. You are being irrational because you can't get your way now.


Ok.

edit add:


Civil Rights Forecast: Most hate crimes statistics have remained relatively constant, but there have been specific areas of increased activity. From 1996 to 1998, there was a spike in arson against religious properties. Since 9/11, there has been an unprecedented number of hate crimes directed against Muslim, Sikh, and Arab-American individuals and institutions. In the event of another terrorist attack on U.S. soil or against U.S. interests abroad, we anticipate similar spikes of activity directed against persons who share actual or perceived ethnicity, religion, or national origin with the terrorists. In addition, the number of crimes under “Color of Law” statutes is expected to increase in direct proportion to the increase in the number of law enforcement and correctional officers over the next decade.

from: http://www.fbi.gov/publications/strategicplan/stategicplantext.htm



FBI PRIORITIES
1. Protect the United States from terrorist attack.
2. Protect the United States against foreign intelligence operations and espionage.
3. Protect the United States against cyber-based attacks and high-technology crimes.
4. Combat public corruption at all levels.
5. Protect civil rights.
6. Combat transnational and national criminal organizations and enterprises.
7. Combat major white-collar crime.
8. Combat significant violent crime.
9. Support federal, state, county, municipal, and international partners.
10. Upgrade technology to successfully perform the FBI’s mission.

I mean, hate crimes are only number 5 on the list I suppose.

But seriously, I remember this huge news story from guerrillanews.com where a web site host was sent to jail because someone posted a link on his site to another site about bomb making. He didn't, someone else did and he was charged as a terrorist, not as a simple web host.

I don't really care if anyone goes to jail or not. I'm just saying it's something they might be looking at and it's not a stretch to say it's something that might get investigated if there is any inkling of criminal activity on some end somewhere that no one even knows about. But hey, I'm not the one that brought getting arrested into this thread. Just thought I point out that child porn isn't the only thing police look at, and again I just want to reiterate, I don't care.

[garak]

Yeah, I actually think I probably agree with your main intent mgbradsh, but you're just being asinine now.

(hello inferior Fe)

[mgb]

Yeah, I actually think I probably agree with your main intent mgbradsh, but you're just being asinine now.

(hello inferior Fe)

I guess I can be asinine with the best of them hey?

[Swift]

Why was this thread made a sticky?

[garak]

Why was this thread made a sticky?
Probably by claverhouse so he can look like he's not fazed by the criticism. A clever move I must say.

[Division56]

Swift's idiotic ideas about races considered as potential threat for terrorism? Um... I think not. You are being irrational because you can't get your way now.
Tee Hee Hee...


Remember when Songbird did it? Maybe they are the same person.

[Swift]

Remember when Songbird did it? Maybe they are the same person.Accuse me of everything you want, but I am definately NOT a chick, ok? ;)

[Vagabond]

Accuse me of everything you want, but I am definately NOT a chick, ok? ;) Now I could accuse you of low capability of comprehension, but I think I would be stating the obvious, as you just proved that. Excellent post, Swift.

[Swift]

Now I could accuse you of low capability of comprehension, but I think I would be stating the obvious, as you just proved that. Excellent post, Swift.So he wasn't talking about me? It certainly wasn't THAT clear.

[garak]

So he wasn't talking about me? It certainly wasn't THAT clear.
It was to me.