Evolving traits

[Francis]

I once was INTP. But in the last two years I have been developing some F & J qualities.

Self-help books learned me how to be more decisive, how to plan a little more, to keep my room more orderly, ... Sometimes I feel like I'm becoming a little J.

Reading communication books learned me to understand others. The importance of listening, understanding feelings and needs, ..

When making an online MBTI test I score much higher on the F&J stuff now. I have mixed feelings about this, somehow I like to be INTP and I'm proud being a thinker and a perceiver and I'd like to keep it that way!

Does anyone relate ?

PS All tests still type me INTP.

[NGene]

When making an online MBTI test I score much higher on the F&J stuff now. I have mixed feelings about this, somehow I like to be INTP and I'm proud being a thinker and a perceiver and I'd like to keep it that way!
Hm, well... since you're consciously developed the F and J traits, I don't think you're becoming an INFJ. Your core type, the most natural type, would still be INTP - though a little more rounded out and healthier INTP.

You must remember your type's only a preference. Like the preference for right hand, for example. If you're right-handed, it doesn't mean you don't have the left hand at all. Of course you have, it is there. With practice, you can become more skilled in using your left hand, but you won't become left-handed. You still naturally prefer the right hand, but you've got an advantage compared to some other right-handed people: you're better at doing things with your left hand.

The same goes to the types and the different Jungian functions. You're capable of using all of them, you can develop all of the functions, but you still naturally prefer few.

Ok, that was today's lecture. :zzz: I actually can relate to your situation. I've been paying more attention to my F side, and I've become more extraverted and need the company of other people more often than I used to need. So, in theory, I could score ENFP in some MBTI test, but it wouldn't change the fact I'm still naturally an INTP. I'm proud of my Thinking, but I'm also proud that I understand the value of feelings, compassion and personal values.

[Johnny]

Agreed.

If one was interested in doing so, intensive and repetitive training under sleep deprivation and great stress for an extended period of time, for example, might be one vehicle for personality change...and even then it's likely that such a change would only be temporary.

There may be more too. Religious rituals, rites of passage, and midlife crises can be vehicles for personality change. So can traumatic events and war. Regardless, the question of who you really are is always up for grabs.

Yes, the goal in MBTI is to find out who you understand yourself to be, but it's only to show you what may be your starting point. Life still gets to be an adventure! :sombrero:

[GraviTass]

A very interesting thread . Some highly perceptive insights... I believe everyone is born with a core temperament and that life experinces can lead to the individual consciously or unconsciously evolving new ways of behaving that are better suited to their environment.

First times I did MBTI type test I scored as INFP/J and felt driven to come to a decision ( a J prefernce thing ) . I initially chose to be INFJ , based mainly on the assumption that I was simply not gushy enough (by my criteria) to be INFP .

But then I had a revelation while visiting an infj forum . I was suddenly aware of an intense irritation at reading the posts of the NF types . They seemed so subjective , and cared not for analysis of their issues , only description , sharing ... I could not relate to all this and began to detach once my own selfish questionning was satisfied (LOL is this selfishness an INTP thing ?)

Secondly , my behaviour in emotional situations has always verged on the bizarre ; tears at the sight of injustice or suffering one minute , simple detached interest the next ... Did you ever see Mr. Spock cry ? Well , thats the way it happens to me . My emotions always come as a shock - as if they belong to someone else . As a teenager I was painfully aware of this. I believe I mistook this as one sign NF- ness

My final self observation is that I often struggle for the 'expected' emotional response to situations . Otherwise I tend to be very open and tactless ! I hate hugs and kisses and I am totally fake when expressing concern to people !

My delusion that I was INFJ ceneterd around my sense that I was using my empathic ability ( which I consider considerable : ) diplomatically . I have now revised that assumption ; I use my empathic ability Strategically - to get what I want from people . I am a very 'nice' manipulator!

For the reasons above , and for other reasons I won't bore you with , I have now comfortably concluded that I am INTP .....with a little f that I call my Compassion (LOL) . Ones traits do evolve, in terms of your preferred expression , yet at heart the functional group remains unchanged .

[flan2dave]

I notice all sorts of S, F, E, and J tendencies in me, which can be confusing if I don't keep sight of the ruling patterns of behaivor and motivation. Usually I'll think, that's my Fness, this is my Sness. I have to be prudent to give these sides their fair share of attention and care in order to stay balanced.

[Star Cannon]

I don't think core traits are concrete. Humans will develop things once they realise they need them. I'm trying to work on developing some 'genuine feeling'.
Like GraviTrass, I too struggle for the 'expected feelings' at some times.

[Francis]

I'm trying to work on developing some 'genuine feeling'.
Like GraviTrass, I too struggle for the 'expected feelings' at some times.

I believe true feelings don't have to be worked on. True feelings are already there and they only need to be uncovered.

The only feelings I used to be are aware of are feeling good and feeling bad. Now I learned to indentify more specific feelings inside of me.

Specific good feelings are: interest, joy, eager, excitement, gladness, ...
Negative feelings can be fear, anxiety, sad, hurt, ...

Francis

Irritation and anger are dangerous feelings because they feed themselves and grow to hatred. These are no true feelings. The true feelings under anger and irritation are always other negative feelings (mostly fear or feeling powerless).

So far for today's lecure :zzz: Hopefully I didn't bore you guys too much..

[INTrPosr]

Francis,

I too have battled with whether I am INFJ in the past. I wonder whether age has some bearing on this? I have always theorized that INTP and INFJs have much in common.

In her booklet, "Dynamics of Personality Type", Linda V. Berens says that introverted thinking and introverted intuition are often accompanied by a sense of detachment and disconnection. With both there tends to be comfort with complexity. The difference is that when we are engaging in T(i), we usually have a clear sense of the principles or models something is judged against, whereas with N(i), an impressionistic image forms in the mind.

Extraverted intuiting and extraverted feeling often focus on people and their interactions. With N(e), it is the meanings and inferenecs that come to mind relative to people and their interactions. With F(e), it is the actions that keep people connected or disconnected that matter.

Linda Berens does not make a comparison of Si/Ti or Fe/Se, so that is where the difference may lie with the two types. Good luck in determining your type. INFJ.COM has some good information which may help.

[GraviTass]

Francis , you wrote :

I believe true feelings don't have to be worked on. True feelings are already there and they only need to be uncovered.


Indeed , you are right . My dominant feeling is one of detachment . But that would hardly get me anywhere . So I act out the 'expected' feeling . It isn't that I do not care for that which I experience . Just that everything seems so familiar . Nothing new . Maybe this is the sense of boredom INTP speak of .

Sometimes I long for something shocking and novel to happen . I know... a stupid wish at best ! Maybe my Ne is too strong... Subjective reality overides objective reality (if that exists ) due to Si.

I guess strong emotion often involves a response to something objective . Maybe when objects of perception are rendered into subjective information Ti apprehends the experince well before inferior Fe ? So Ti calls the shot in terms of the first response - which is an internal one , that looks like detachment from the outside .

Am I making sense ?

Functionanalyst , you are correct when you state Ne focuses on people and their interactions . It is in that area that I suffer most from feeling out of synch ! I'd probably be more emmotional to learn my Mac had been trashed , than to descover my best friends mother just died :6