INTP... centre stage?

[Pan]

I'm curious, as an INTP who's spent time on stage (as a musician, also some speaking), what everyone's experiences performing are (music/drama/dance/comedy/public speaking/fool/jongleur/court lawyer/whatever). In a recent thread, I don't think anyone claimed public speaking was one of their things they are afraid of (supposedly generally the number one fear), which is part of what made me curious.

Personally, I find I'm a relatively nerve-free performer, maybe due to the "who cares what some group of shallow idiots think" part of my personality. Performing for my peers is another situation entirely, of course, as is performing when I don't feel comfortable doing what I'm doing.

Anyway, thoughts? Do INTPs make natural performers? Are we better able than some other types at dealing with the distasteful situation when it arises? Or do most INTPs just avoid the stage like a fetid carcass in the hot sun?

[kendoiwan]

I'ma stage whore. But I hate to be called on in class if I didn't raise my hand.
Same with reading out loud or anything else for that matter, if it isn't my decision then I usually make them beg. And I still feel uncomfortable. But if I made up my mind to do something then I'm a stage whore, definitely. Mic check 1-2, 1-2, is this thing on? :peep:

[Melange]

Does Pit Orchestra for musicals count? I don't mind playing with the rest of them, but being called in class and reading outloud is torture; talking in front of people in general doesn't go well for me either, I start reading too fast, then too slow and then I skip words and have to repeat myself (ie presentations, speeches etc)

[Bugeater]

When I was in school, I used to get a zero on every oral report because I refused to get up and talk in front of the class. I've always had a facination with the whole acting profession, though. But I think I would be too terrified to even try it.

[kuranes]

I'm such a stage whore that I sometimes create stages just to whore on them. I have to watch my tendency to monopolize things in group interaction, believing myself to be charismatic and fascinating, when sometimes it is just that people are politely waiting for me to finish.

As far as real stages, I was involved in National Forensics in High School, which included Debate and Extemporaneous Speaking, and I defeated the JV National champion once.

I was called upon to get up and do something at a coffee house once, referenced in another post of mine, and I did very well; though I had feared otherwise, since I was almost totally unprepared when called upon. I ended up making a virtue of this very limitation, offering humorously to field a question on any subject under the sun. The humor was in purposely letting the audience see my halting improvisations of a "really reaching" nature, like a student trying to bullshit their way through an essay question at test time.

[Hexchild]

I used to be nervous about speaking in front of class. Then one day as I finally had to do it I went up and did it, realized what an anticlimax that was, and since then have never had any problems with it.

I've performed on stage a few times too, playing the piano in a band. It was no biggie, just something I did for fun. Although I have to admit I got a pretty darn good high from the crowd cheering at my piano+harmonica solo.


Oh, and I can relate to that "who cares what some group of shallow idiots think" stuff. Although I don't really care whether they are shallow idiots or not. They're not me, so their opinions are generally irrelevant to me unless they happen to 1) be someone I'm in love with or 2) have something intelligent to say.

[cjs55]

I was solo trumpet in high school jazz band. I never had any issues whatsoever being on stage and soloing. I just closed my eyes and played as if there was no one else around but the band and me.

I sang for a punk band as well in high school, we were pretty good and at least fun to be involved with. I was slightly nervous the first couple shows because I wasn't confident in myself as a singer, and I never really was a great singer. But I got over that and just sorta did my thing. Yeah I missed notes but I had fun, so the remaining shows we did I had no problem with.

Public speaking isn't an issue of being nervous in front of people really, more like worrying if I am not quite prepared enough.

I'm confident in myself, and if I screw up a bit it's not the end of the world.

[waxwing]

Anyway, thoughts? Do INTPs make natural performers? Are we better able than some other types at dealing with the distasteful situation when it arises? Or do most INTPs just avoid the stage like a fetid carcass in the hot sun?Performing....

Well, I often performed on stage. I played solos (band, piano, voice) for school concerts and recitals. I was into drama, and many people saw me as a natural performer. What I realize now is that while the actual performance felt natural for me, I was shy about walking to and from the stage. I noticed this especially when I was watching a video of one of my performances from middle school. Large crowd. Lots of spotlight. I was a very expressive performer, but it was obvious at that age that I hated to bow. I don't like the audience recognition. I learned how to hide that, for the most part, but if it were up to me, I'd rather just perform and disappear into the wings.

Musicals -- Fun for me. I felt like a completely different person playing a role, and I rarely felt stage fright. I did school musicals and a little community theater. I was good at those moments where lines were forgotten. ;)

Piano -- While I've played solos in church, school, recitals, and for events such as weddings, I prefer accompanying. Throughout high school, that was my main role. I played for choirs and for individuals who needed accompanists (solo auditions, etc.). My comfort level depends on what I am being asked to play, really.

Public speaking -- I like it, but only when I can diverge from an outline. I don't like to feel bound by "points 1, 2, 3, 4, and 5." Walking up to the front of the room (spur of the moment) and talking about something is more my scene.

Other performances -- I like jazz improv., and any kind of improv. really (vocal or instrumental). I mostly played trombone and piano in jazz band, but occasionally scatted. I like having to play in a setting where I must fill the time with music (i.e. playing background music). When I am supposed to play/sing a piece of music that I've rehearsed (something involving a great deal of technical detail), I am a bit more ill at ease. Well, what I mean is that after the fact, I often reviewed the whole performance in my mind, picking myself to pieces. For example, I think to myself: "Ugggh. I missed that Bb in the bass. Sigh. Sigh. Sigh. I want to do it over. Stop beating yourself up, it was fine....But, I could have done that so much better....I was late with that crucial pageturn. Why did that have to be the climax of the piece?...The run -- that sounded awful. Grrrrr!" Basically, I remember every mistake and think of how I should have performed better. The irony is that most people never even noticed the mistakes I made. It was purely an issue of self-betterment. If I thought I could have done better, I wanted to do better. I never really talked about that to anyone else, though, becuause I wanted to be gracious and accepting of compliments. A wholly internal struggle.

Overall, I would say that I enjoy performing, but don't like the aftermath. Even in improvisation situations, I review the scene (whether acting or playing) and just want to do it more effectively. I am extremely hard on myself. I've been told over and over again that I am expressive on stage, and get the idea that people like to watch me because of the way I perform, not necessarily what I perform. <shrug>

[kendoiwan]

Performing....

Well, I often performed on stage. I played solos (band, piano, voice) for school concerts and recitals. I was into drama, and many people saw me as a natural performer. What I realize now is that while the actual performance felt natural for me, I was shy about walking to and from the stage. I noticed this especially when I was watching a video of one of my performances from middle school. Large crowd. Lots of spotlight. I was a very expressive performer, but it was obvious at that age that I hated to bow. I don't like the audience recognition. I learned how to hide that, for the most part, but if it were up to me, I'd rather just perform and disappear into the wings.

Musicals -- Fun for me. I felt like a completely different person playing a role, and I rarely felt stage fright. I did school musicals and a little community theater. I was good at those moments where lines were forgotten. ;)

Piano -- While I've played solos in church, school, recitals, and for events such as weddings, I prefer accompanying. Throughout high school, that was my main role. I played for choirs and for individuals who needed accompanists (solo auditions, etc.). My comfort level depends on what I am being asked to play, really.

Public speaking -- I like it, but only when I can diverge from an outline. I don't like to feel bound by "points 1, 2, 3, 4, and 5." Walking up to the front of the room (spur of the moment) and talking about something is more my scene.

Other performances -- I like jazz improv., and any kind of improv. really (vocal or instrumental). I mostly played trombone and piano in jazz band, but occasionally scatted. I like having to play in a setting where I must fill the time with music (i.e. playing background music). When I am supposed to play/sing a piece of music that I've rehearsed (something involving a great deal of technical detail), I am a bit more ill at ease. Well, what I mean is that after the fact, I often reviewed the whole performance in my mind, picking myself to pieces. For example, I think to myself: "Ugggh. I missed that Bb in the bass. Sigh. Sigh. Sigh. I want to do it over. Stop beating yourself up, it was fine....But, I could have done that so much better....I was late with that crucial pageturn. Why did that have to be the climax of the piece?...The run -- that sounded awful. Grrrrr!" Basically, I remember every mistake and think of how I should have performed better. The irony is that most people never even noticed the mistakes I made. It was purely an issue of self-betterment. If I thought I could have done better, I wanted to do better. I never really talked about that to anyone else, though, becuause I wanted to be gracious and accepting of compliments. A wholly internal struggle.

Overall, I would say that I enjoy performing, but don't like the aftermath. Even in improvisation situations, I review the scene (whether acting or playing) and just want to do it more effectively. I am extremely hard on myself. I've been told over and over again that I am expressive on stage, and get the idea that people like to watch me because of the way I perform, not necessarily what I perform. <shrug>


Jesus H. Christ! You went to church? :shock:

Kidding, with through the church phase myself, some years back... ;P

[waxwing]

Jesus H. Christ! You went to church? :shock:

Kidding, with through the church phase myself, some years back... ;P
Hehe.

Yeah, I was a heavily churched child (not by choice, though).

[cathmc]

I took classical piano for many years, up through college, and 2 or 3 times a year I would play in some kind of judged competition. I would get extremely nervous! I think the combination of being 'out there' like that with being a perfectionist and NOT WANTING TO MAKE A SINGLE MISTAKE caused it. I usually did quite well, but the judges always noticed my nerves. They'd write comments like 'you played quite well, no need to be so nervous!'
Ultimately I quit piano for 2 reasons:
1 - I reached a level of difficulty where it stopped being fun and started being this chore - 'if I don't practice at least a couple hours every day I will NOT KEEP GETTING BETTER'.
2 - I was never much of an improvisor or 'popular tune' player. And all through h.s. and college I had the frustration of being at a party, and someone who knew I played would try to get me to play something. And I'd think 'yes I'm sure that Bach Concertina I've been working on will really get the place jammin'. And inevitably, someone without a lick of training but a good ear would sit down and bang out every Billy Joel tune or the latest Ben Folds Five or whatever.
If I ever take it up again, I'm going to see if it's possible to 'learn' jazz piano.

[PenguinHunter]

I used to win speech competitions in elementary school sometimes. I don't like talking in class but if I'm in control of everything then it's ok (speech, lecture etc). I'm not sure why, it's almost like I feel bad wasting the time of the class and the lecturer who would have to listen to my comment or answer my question.

[coffeezombie]

I don't like speaking as myself in front of a group of people but I "act" just fine. It must have something to do with being able to step into the role of someone else when acting.

[Zero Angel]

Stage whore. Also I find drama and theatre interesting, its probably temporary.

[misutii]

i'm usually terrified as all hell when i first get up in front of a crowd, but once i find a groove i strangely have fun, and when whatever i'm doing is done i always wish i had more time to make it better. but actively putting myself in front of a crowd takes more energy then i'm usually willing to put forth

[illusivemind]

I have a dualistic relationship with center stage. It both frightens and exhilarates me. I don’t really like being at the center of attention unless with a group of friends however I was the lead role in the school play in my final year of high-school (I was a lawyer), I captained the debating team, I starred in and produced a closed-circuit news program that got broadcast to the whole school on a semi-regular basis and I often tend to dominate discussions in my tutorials at university.

[Wiki]

I fronted a band in D.C. called the Creetins in the early 90's (god I feel old). First time I was nervous but luckily we had a lot of cheering drunk friends there. The first performance went well. I believe I went on Xanax shortly thereafter. That took care of any remaining butterflies.

If I ever got back into it I would like to write for someone famous rather than perform. I have no desire or the energy to be in the spotlight (although it seems to find me and I cannot hide), but I will always cherish the memory of seeing people actually singing along, and actually knowing the words to my songs.

[Loco_Mullus_Surmuletus]

As much as I recall, I spent great deal of my childhood on stage: played piano for 6 years(including some concerts), ballet (both modern\classical) dancer for 10 years, debate freak, actress in alternative theatres... But few years ago, I just stopped, without any obvious reson. I moved to other city, started living on my own, working, studying, acting like every adult intp :) Others thougth of me as extreme introvert, since I realised I know much more than other ppl do, therefore didn't want to disturbe myself speaking.... Until the day I had to talk and debate about one of my projects, in front of professors, other students, you know... One of my assistants even offered me to do my presentation later, just in front of professors (he thougth I'd evventually pass out :blink: ). No need to say I got an A+... Ppl stared at me like I was some kind of freak, with their mouth wide open , when I calmly transformed into my previous self, introverted nerd :shock:
Sometimes I think I have multiple personality dissorder :ph34r:

I adore the thrill of stage, ligths, ppl looking at you, but not all the time, just considering things I know very well and enjoy doing it. (Like singing back vocals etc...) I really do become other person, can't deny it. Maybe it's adrenalin that makes all the difference, or just the way I am.But to have such extreme inside you, and actually realise it's really "You"... I don't know... Any intp with similar feelings?

[kuranes]

Welcome to an interesting new member.

[Zero Angel]

I don't think you have MPD. If i'm 'on stage', then I have to be one who has some control over the events. It sort of gives me a rush to be up in front of all those people to deliver some kind of impressive performance of something that i'm good at. I have to be front and center doing something i'm good at, or not visible at all. I couldn't stand to just be a visible prop.

[Loco_Mullus_Surmuletus]

Welcome to an interesting new member.


Well, thank you..how kind :) :blush:

@Zero, you made good point there, but that's just part of the story... I wanted to emphasize that I my personality transformes in such moments( well, part of my personality), that my close friends can't recognise me. Don't know... hope that everything will come in it's own place, just need some time to pass...right..? :think:

[Pan]

Sometimes I think I have multiple personality dissorder :ph34r:

I really do become other person, can't deny it. Maybe it's adrenalin that makes all the difference, or just the way I am.But to have such extreme inside you, and actually realise it's really "You"... I don't know... Any intp with similar feelings?

I too have a very different persona onstage than I do in day-to-day life. I actually am far more outgoing than most classical music performers... I insist on talking to the audience between pieces and even movements, I smile a lot, tell little jokes, banter, etc. I actually find there's a strong similarity between the comfort of being on stage when I know what I'm doing, and the comfort of being with a very close friend. Part of my problem with public improv is that I'm just not as comfortable as I am with prepared music, so my performing persona then transforms to something closer to my normal public one - quiet and unsure.

I am really curious how close your "close friends" are who don't see this "inner you" offstage. ie Is it a case of you being so much more comfortable on stage, (having spent so much time there as a child and teen) than in even the safest social situations, or is there a real categorical difference for you between the two?

Incidentally, I also deal with a lot of people in my job who I'm sure have no idea of the sort of performer I am, though I have now relaxed to the point that it's not such a stretch. It is sometimes intensely frustrating to be dealing with people who have no idea what sort of artistic passion is seething under the surface.

[Loco_Mullus_Surmuletus]

[QUOTE=Pan
I am really curious how close your "close friends" are who don't see this "inner you" offstage. ie Is it a case of you being so much more comfortable on stage, (having spent so much time there as a child and teen) than in even the safest social situations, or is there a real categorical difference for you between the two?

[/QUOTE]

Close friends... ahem... this is another issue of mine... I actually never let anyone close to me. But back to the subject... I think that truth lies somewhere inbetween, like it always does. I do have one close friend, but she's far,far away and she might know the answer.. (Maybe it's becouse she's professional piano player.)She's the only one that had rarely been surprised by my actions, both on\off stage.
Maybe it's becouse I actually dislike social situations, don't like to mix with people, espetially unknown ones. But is it possible to make some kind of paralell between stage and social interactions?

[The Mathemagician!]

Performing on stage has never really been a problem. I've been in bands since I was 15. Then, a few yeards ago, I started doing this one man band thing. At first, it was kind of freaky, being the centre of attention, no distractions, just me. I got over it after 2 or 3 shows. It's fine now. I still stumble akwardly through the stage banter, but I figure that's part of my 'charm'.

But please don't sit me in a room with some friends and/or aquiantances, give me a guitar and tell me to play a song. Unless there was alcohol involved, of course.

[joecancer]

I think it's probably easier for us to perform than to be in a group setting because we don't need to compete for attention - we are automatically given attention by merely being on stage.
That being said, I do get nervous at first, but I usually relax. I have done several open mikes with my guitar, and it takes a few minutes to relax. But I think I do have a good stage presence once I relax.
I definitely prefer performing to public speaking.
The thing I always get nervous about is if I have to talk about myself in public. I don't mind as much if I'm giving a presentation, but for some reason, when I know I have to give an introduction to people and tell them about my background, I completely flip out. The worst part is waiting for your turn while everyone else talks about themselves.

[Enigma]

I took classical piano for many years............I think the combination of being 'out there' like that with being a perfectionist and NOT WANTING TO MAKE A SINGLE MISTAKE caused it.

Ditto.
Also, I played for an instructor at the age of 8, and got slammed because she thought I should have been playing something more difficult. I was very tall and much older looking for my age. Intellectually, I know that I wasn't bad, but this incident colored my whole outlook, because piano was the thing I was supposedly "good at". :rant: (Actually many things come easily to me.) I quit because I became tired of the "trained seal act" where I was harassed to play for relatives at every gathering whether I felt like it or not, and because the teacher I was supposed to move on to expected a much greater committment than I was prepared to give.

I have the perfectionist problem in everything I do. I entered a ballroom dance competition this weekend. I entered a low level, but even so, I was way more nervous than I should have been and made some mistakes because of it. I don't even like people to watch me practice onless I am dancing with a partner (even though I am at a higher level than most of them). I never play the piano for anyone anymore either.

[XLr8tor]

I've been somewhat interested in performance for some time. I'm not a musician, having failed childhood attempts at accordion and tuba. There's a keyboardist in me wanting to come out, but thus far I've stuck with qwerty. My kids were athletes, which led me into a survey of sports psychology and more. Here are some resources that might be of interest:

Coaching for Performance: A Practical Guide to Growing Your Own Skills, John Whitmore, Pfeiffer and Company, 1994.

Creativity: Where the Divine and the Human Meet, Matthew Fox, Tarcher/Putnam, New York 2002.

The Everyday Work of Art: How Artistic Experience Can Transform Your Life, Eric Booth, Sourcebooks, Napierville, Illinois 1997. [Written by an individual who was a Broadway impresario, a professor at Juilliard, and the CEO of a trends forecasting company, this book has been recognized by many educators as an outstanding book, it has been re-published by Authors? Guild Back-in-Print (iUniverse.com) (ISBN 0-595-19380-3) with the new subtitle ?Awakening the Extraordinary in Your Daily Life?.]

Flow: The Psychology of Optimal Experience, M. Csikszentmihalyi, Harper & Row, New York, 1990. [A seminal work... ]

Free Play: Improvisation in Life and Art, Stephen Nachmanovitch, Tarcher/Putnam, NY 1990. [This book is so delightful, I ordered extras for my fellow players in the inaugural ?Game of Games?.]

Improvisation: Its Nature and Practice in Music, Derek Bailey, Da Capo Press/Perseus Books, United Kingdom, 1992.

Music, The Brain and Ecstasy: How Music Captures Our Imagination, Robert Jourdain, William Morrow & Co., 1997.

Passionate Practice: The Musician?s Guide to Learning, Memorizing and Performing, Margret Elson, Regent Press, Oakland, CA 2002.

Performance Success: Performing Your Best Under Pressure, Don Greene, Ph.D., Routledge, NY 2002. [See also Audition Success: An Olympic Sports Psychologist Teaches Performing Artists How To Win, by the same author in 2001. See his web site dongreene.com for a thorough self-assessment.]

The Rhythm Inside: Connecting Body, Mind and Spirit Through Music, Julia Schnebly-Black, Ph.D. and Stephen F. Moore, PhD., Rudro Press, Portland, OR 1997. [Based on the Dalcroze Eurhythmics approach to teaching music, with accompanying music CD, this book suggests a marvelous way to introduce movement with music and the practice of kinesthetic awareness.]

Thinking Body, Dancing Mind: Taosports for Extraordinary Performance in Athletics, Business and Life, Chungliang Al Huang and Jerry Lynch, Random House/Bantam, New York, 1992. [The marriage of the centuries-old precepts of Taoism with the best of modern sports psychology, this book offers surprising insights even after you've read all the rest. One author is a master in dance, tai chi and Taoism; the other is an accomplished sports psychologist and business consultant. The book is loaded with sample visualizations, affirmations, exercises and "trigger" phrases.]

Walking in this World: The Practical Art of Creativity, Julia Cameron, Tarcher/Putnam 2002. [A follow-up to The Artists' Way, this book is about rediscovering our senses of origin, proportion, perspective, adventure, personal territory, boundaries, momentum, discernment, resiliency, camaraderie, authenticity and dignity. Her list of recommended reading is remarkable.]

The War of Art: Winning The Inner Creative Battle, Steven Pressfield, Rugged Land, New York 2002. [Written by the author of "The Legend Of Bagger Vance", this book cuts to the chase to teach us how to get out of our own way.]

The Widening Stream: The Seven Stages of Creativity, David Ulrich, Beyond Words Publishing, Hillsboro, OR 2002.

[Pan]

In similar vein, this book was extremely popular with musicians for a while: Inner Game of Music (http://www.amazon.com/Inner-Game-Music-Barry-Green/dp/0385231261).

I never read any of these books, myself, however.

[Pooja]

I was in forensics (they're speech competitions), for 4 years and competed varsity level. My high school was #1 in the midwest, and #4 in the country. I never really got first place, but i was content w/ 3rd (at the bigger tournements). I did extemporaneious speaking for 2 years, and then switched to impromptu. I loved the feeling of my stomach tightning and twisting in anxiety.
I was also on the debate team for a season. I got a nice trophy, and then quit while I was ahead.

[farfegnugen]

performance is probably the only thing that really turns me on. i'm at my very best when i'm expressing myself to others through performance. it's how i attract people, it's how i connect with people, and it's where i'm most comfortable. i don't know if this is characteristic of intp's or not, but i know that i am definitely intp and definitely a performer.