Cultural DNA -- Memes

[waxwing]

How do you think human culture develops?

Do you think that there are cultural replicators (memes), as discussed in Richard Dawkin's theory?

Do "meme-machines" indicate a lesser degree of human self-consciousness?

How does human creativity factor into the theory, or into your understanding of this idea?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Memes

[kuranes]

Human creativity certainly factors into my understanding of the idea of a meme, because it is so broadly defined.

The Wikipedia definition mentions a very interesting book "The Soul of the White Ant" that described experiements suggesting the existence of a group mind in certain life forms.

The first I heard the term ( and was exposed to the "meme meme") was in a book on consciousness, and it described a meme as a kind of verbal virus, like people passing around a joke on the net or otherwise, that evolves over time. Or like certain assumptive attitudes that are taken for granted in current thinking, that prevent us from seeing the forest for the trees. Think of the "leeches" meme that was appealing to doctors as a means of treatment at one time, and is starting to be suggested again by fringe groups. So a meme could be simple or complex.

[cjs55]

1. Experience: If a meme does not correlate with an individual's experience, then that individual has a reduced likelihood of remembering that meme
2. Happiness: If a meme makes people feel happier then they have a greater likelihood of remembering it
3. Fear: If a meme constitutes a threat then people may become frightened into believing it. The memes "if you do not do this you will burn in hell..." and "...do this and you will go to heaven" provide common examples
4. Censorship: If an organisation destroys any retention systems containing a particular meme or otherwise controls the usage of said meme, then that meme is put at a selective disadvantage. (Note that "Censorship is wrong" is a meme. It is interesting to speculate that this meme may have prospered by increasing the wealth of those nations that enforced it, thus increasing the influence of that meme itself.)
5. Economics: If people or organisations with economic influence exhibit a particular meme, then the meme has a greater likelihood of benefitting from a greater audience. If a meme tends to increase the riches of an individual holding it, then that meme is likely to spread because of imitation. Such memes might include "Hard work is good" and "Put number one first."
6. Distinction: If the meme enables hearers to recognize tellers (as leaders, intelligent people, insightful, etc.), then the meme has a greater chance of spreading. The erstwhile receivers will want to become themselves tellers of the same meme (or an evolved/mutated version). Thus élite knowledge can provide a promotion to élite status.


Wow, now this is cool, and useful.

Time to go manipulate the masses.

[Pan]

How do you think human culture develops?

Do you think that there are cultural replicators (memes), as discussed in Richard Dawkin's theory?

Do "meme-machines" indicate a lesser degree of human self-consciousness?

How does human creativity factor into the theory, or into your understanding of this idea?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Memes
I read Selfish Gene some time ago, and had no trouble with the theory of memes at all - it "fits" intuitively for me (as does Dawkins' version of physical evolution which I find infinitely more satisfying than the Gould model).

As to the Consciousness question, I don't have any trouble believing that I can be both housing for memes and conscious... really they don't oppose, as theories of consciousness can work independantly of theories on how ideas are transmitted - whether you call them memes or merely ideas, there is little doubt that they're there and are transmitted from mind to mind.

Same thing for free will... especially since I am capable of recombining or creating new memes, and of evaluating and rejecting others. Creativity is therefore pretty much untouched by the theory as well.

Really, I don't see any grand new conclusions coming from "memetics". The main point of it when Dawkins coined the phrase was to serve as an example to support his theory of evolution... ie something that he thought people would buy into as evident, and therefore be more likely to believe his theory. I do highly recommend Selfish Gene or any of his later books on the subject, because the shift in evolutionary theory was huge... it wasn't until reading him that I really starting buying that evolution really did have all the bases covered. Memetics' best contribution to science,as near as I can tell, is helping to get people buy into an evolutionary theory... which will, hopefully, eventually translate to fewer monkeys in courtrooms.

[booyalab]

hogwash

[coffeezombie]

I think memetics is important in identifying that certain personality types are susceptible to certain theories, while others have "resistance" to such theories. In that sense, I think the theory is a little more important than just an allusion to biological evolution.

[kuranes]

When I first heard about memes, I was reminded of the old joke about human beings being an invention of water to transport itself around the world via ground/land routes.

[Lucas]

As Dawkins has pointed out, it is nothing more than a useful analogy to describe cultural transmission. In fact he first used the analogy to describe genetic transmission and natural selection, not to explain the occurrence of culture in humans. It is a useful concept from a brilliant man, but memetics has some serious unanswered flaws. It is another theoretic tool, not the final word.