Rhythm

[waxwing]

In The Art of the Novel, Milan Kundera offers a fresh glance into the axiomatic notion of rhythm. No doubt, it's a term with which most artists are almost too familiar, yet I share what he wrote because it resonated with me.



RHYTHM. I hate to hear the beat of my heart; it is a relentless reminder that the minutes of my life are numbered. So I have always seen something macabre in the bar lines that measure out a musical score. But the greatest masters of rhythm know how to silence the monotonous and predictable regularity, and transform their music into a little enclave of "time outside time." The masters of polyphony: contrapuntal, horizontal thinking weakens the importance of the measure. In late Beethoven, the rhythm is so complicated, especially in the slow movements., that we can barely make out the bar lines. My admiration for Olivier Messiaen: with his techniqye of small rhythmic values added or subtracted, he invents an unforeseeable and incalculable time structure, a completely autonomous time (a time from beyond "the end of time," to quote the title of his quartet). A received idea: that the genius of rhythm is expressed through noisy, emphatic regularity. False. The tedious rhythmic primitivism of rock: the heart's beat is amplified so that man can never for a moment forget his march toward death.I too am often bothered by the sound and symbolism of the heartbeat. It becomes most obvious to me when I am lying in bed, unable to sleep, or when I feel most overwhelmed by the materialism and time-orientation of society. Just Stop. It never stops. Perhaps to feel the need, even pressure, for structured time-keeping in ones life is entirely different from the inclination to adhere to measures, meters, and other formulaic concepts in the arts. Nevertheless, Kundera's idea strikes me as profound. Perhaps he has helped me understand why I am refreshed and fascinated by works of art that seem to defy the expectations of rhythm -- in music, yes, but also in visual and literary art. On a slightly different note, his idea also seems to apply to my attraction towards those people who "play" with constructs of time and rhythm as evidenced by lifestyle, choices, speech, expression, and so on.

What do you think about Kundera's idea of rhythm?

[kuranes]

I've been buying a number of Messiaen discs lately, having been turned on to him by a West Coast fusion jazz gtr.god. He has some symphonies dedicated to evoking the different rhythms in varied birdsong.

Unexpected cessations are always interesting. One time Miles Davis briefly stopped all sound coming from his band, and let the audience hear the sounds of a truck outside the concert hall emptying a dumpster instead. Then resumed again, having let the change last just long enough. A famous quote of his was "Don't play the notes, but play between them." Listen to comedians and traders who say "It's all in the timing."

Miles had a band he humorously called "The Foot Foolers" with his "On the Corner" album, which allowed him to combine jazz with a "Sly and the Family Stone" feel. My favorite stop-start rhythm of his was on the song "Honky Tonk" with McLaughlin, Herbie Hancock, Keith Jarrett, and a bunch of others getting into that spirit. Miles told John to "play like someone who is an amateur new to the guitar". Like using William Burroughs "cut-up" method, it is far from just random assemblage in its finished form. There is editing, but it comes AFTER seeing what the chance provided. An imposed parameter. Comparable, in that respect, to OULIPO.

Info on the "cut up method" at www.reitzes.com/cutup.html - here referring to literature.

[Pan]

1) The beat of the heart. I'd completely forgotten about it until I started writing this post, but this used to bother the hell out of me. Now I only notice it if I'm excercising, and even then it doesn't bother me in the least.

Rhythm that never repeats is just white noise, so there must be some sort of periodicity to it at some level. You can't spoil people's rhythmic expectations without first setting them up, right? I always liked ostinati in music (and in other arts if they're subtle enough, especially photography) and I actually find them to be rhythmically freeing. An example: think about the necessity in swing music for the singer/player of the melody to avoid the downbeat almost all of the time... that's only possible if someone else is providing a regular, predictable beat. If everyone in the band avoids the downbeat, then the beat is lost and you end up with formless soup.

So, right, the point. What I learned that combatted the Tell-Tale Heart... the next time you find yourself sleeplessly listening to your heart, find a counter-rhythm - feel the off-beats - jam.

2) Having said that, I generally prefer music that does trip up metric expectations. I'm especially fond (being the sly devil I am) of music that slips its bonds subtly. Pop songs like Supertramp's "Logical Song", part of which is in five, Peter Gabriel's "Salisbury Hill" with the chorus in seven, and so on... songs that sound like straight-ahead pop songs on first listen. Of course, the quarter-note beats are regular, but there are many different levels you can have rhythmic variance on.

It's similar with poetry... I much prefer subtle shifts within a mostly regular rhythmic structure a la Milton, Shakespeare, Coleridge and the rest to any free verse I've ever found.

3) Pointless detail alert. Kundera's choices of composers seem a little funny... Beethoven's late string quartets are certainly incredibly rhythmically and harmonically complex (they probably weren't matched in complexity until the 20th century), but Beethoven was all about pounding rhythm. Berlioz called Beethoven's 7th the "apotheosis of the dance" and he wasn't kidding... it last movement has one of the most compelling, driving rhythms in all of classical music. Also, the 9th (no, not the Ninth!)'s last movement is defined by the triumph of the four-square "ode to joy" over the rhythmic and harmonic uncertainty of the opening.

Messiaen is a brilliant composer, and if all he ever wrote was the Quartet he would be remembered (that's a bit of a cheap quote, though... the "end of time" referred to in the quartet is the Biblical Revelation). He certainly had some interesting ideas about generating new rhythms (and agreed with Kundera about the necessity of getting away from the barline), but it should be remembered that his goal was to create new, fairly rigid compositional systems to replace the old. His additive rhythms are often difficult to hear and distinguish, even for trained musicians (can you really notice the difference between one note held for 64 beats and another held 63?) and his experiments in rhythmic serialism, at their best, produce something that sounds random. I would say the birdsong quotations are probably the most interesting thing he did rhythmically... ie using recorded birdsong to determine rhythm (and pitch). Incidentally, Messiaen's own picks for best rhythmic composers wer Mozart and Stravinsky... for what it's worth

4) I'm really not a music geek. Really. Please believe me.

5) Rhythm is a constant part of my life... I can't help myself feeling at least offbeats to everything I hear.

I once spent a 2-hour bus trip in the rain utterly captivated by the windshield wipers of the bus... which were slightly out of phase.

Years ago, I was accosted by a partly toothless Jamaican man on my way into a public washroom. "You walk like you' dancin' man." I still don't know if he approved or if he was making fun of me.

[kuranes]

Sometimes if you listen to a fan for a long time, with its blades turning regularly, it will eventually sound "out of phase" for some reason. Just as little statuettes and other objects will appear to move if you stare at them without blinking for long periods.

There was an experiment where you were supposed to stare into the face of someone directly in front of you. Stare at their eye which is on YOUR right. They, in turn, would stare at your LEFT eye, which would be on THEIR right. Your brain would keep trying to get you to look AWAY from the eye,at the cheekbone, at the smile the other person was making to goof on you etc. but you had to keep focused on nothing but the eye, only the eye, only the eye . . . . not blinking unless absolutely unavoidable . . .and then suddenly you'd get this strange flash like you were seeing something totally different for a moment. Like the Outer Limits, man . . . . .Mua-Ha ha

[cjs55]

I like music with fairly consistent rhythm (quarter note melodies++). I also find the concept of death soothing. I certainly don't mind listening to my heartbeat as well (when I can hear it it is usally a very calming experience).

I do however like music which disregards meter and time signature. This I believe leads to freedom in melodic choice which is important for the intelligent composer.

Anyways though, rhythm is like the basic energy of life (which is of course intertwined with death) that gives birth to other expression.

[waxwing]

Pan, I want to think more about what you wrote, but for now, I'll comment on the end of your post, point #5.



I once spent a 2-hour bus trip in the rain utterly captivated by the windshield wipers of the bus... which were slightly out of phase. Windsheld wipers can be mesmerizing. Turn signals do it for me to. I can be found tapping my steering wheel on the off-beat of the turn signal. Something like 3 against 2 until either the turn signal or I get off beat. Sometimes the clicking sound annoys me, especially when it obviously not keeping time like a metronome.

The other night I was thoroughly captivated by the sound I could make by scribbling rhythmically on paper. It started out something like this and just got crazier. Pretend we're in 6/8:

....1.... 2..... 3...... 4..... 5-6
(little, little, little, little, big loop, ---repeat).

The one habit that is kind of strange is making a tssk sound with my tongue against the roof of my mouth. Nobody can tell I am doing it because my mouth doesn't move, but people wonder where the sound is coming from. If any music is playing, especially in a store, I naturally walk in step with the music. Tssk my tongue. Tap the wall. You know what else I often do? I hold onto a railing or something for a certain number of beats, the left go (like there's a rest), then run my hand along it again.

What does this have to do with Kundera's quote? Well, somehow I think it's supporting it. I can't escape rhythm, but get bored with the constant predictable rhythms, so somehow must always find a way to make them more interesting or complex. Hence, all the above examples of complicating very basic notions of rhythm.



Years ago, I was accosted by a partly toothless Jamaican man on my way into a public washroom. "You walk like you' dancin' man." I still don't know if he approved or if he was making fun of me.Love it.

Nothing personal, but I don't believe you when you say you aren't a music geek. ;)

[Hypnos]

Only by accepting your death can you transcend it. Rhythm shouldn't be a protest to your heartbeat, but an exploration given its existence.

This is the drama of Bach, and one revisited by every great artist.

[SheepDog]

I love the groove, as an extention of the heartbeat. They're both the same, as far as I'm concerned, and I find music that has a groove almost always more enjoyable than music without. My most transcendent moments while playing are when the drummer and I (bass player) click into a groove, and the audience is pulsing to the rhythm. Pure magic.

As far as the heartbeat and fear of death, I see it the other way around. The heartbeat is a sign of life, feeling it beat makes me MORE alive, not less.

[PenguinHunter]

On the note about rock music. I would see it more as what SheepDog and Hypnos said: an acceptance of death so that you can trancend it. The rock musician's subconcious says, "My heartbeat tells me I'm alive, so I've going to LIVE dammit." A really good rhythm can make you understand your life and death at the same time and not worry about it. Rather than marching towards death, you are marching with life, focussing on a beautiful present that spans your existence. Or something...

[Pan]

Nothing personal, but I don't believe you when you say you aren't a music geek. :smooch: Damn! I thought my disguise was impenetrable. :)

[PiccoloNamek]

The feeling of my own heartbeat has always bothered me. Not because of death thoughts, but rather because the fact that I can feel my own heartbeat so strongly when at rest must mean my blood pressure must be up. A disconcerting thought considering my dad's side of the family has a history of high blood pressure, and considering how much aerobic exercise. It is all for nothing?

As for music, I prefer music with a consistant rhythm, because it's easier to move to. I find it almost impossible not to move to a good beat, either by tapping my foot for finger, or even rocking back and forth slightly. I actually feel physically uncomfortable if I try to stay still.

[waxwing]

Only by accepting your death can you transcend it. Rhythm shouldn't be a protest to your heartbeat, but an exploration given its existence.

This is the drama of Bach, and one revisited by every great artist.
Well said, Hypnos.

[KellyKidd]

Hi Waxwing,

Rhythm is my specialty. I've been drumming for more years then I care to mention. I've played 4/4 feels (Pop, Rock, Country, Rap etc..) Jazz feels (Jazz, swing, blues etc..) Fusion, and complex time signatures.

Blues based music is based off the rhythm of the heart beat. The whole drum beat is centered around the feel of the bass drum going BaBoom, BaBoom, BaBoom, BaBoom.

I don't play much blues based rhythms because, as a drummer, you do get stuck into a pattern that doesn't allow for much expression.

I like 4/4 Rock the best because it provides the most flexibilty to alter the feel within the same rhythm. I can half time the beat and play real heavy (Jon Bohnam style) or I can double time the beat and play fast and furious. Or I can interlay Triplets within the 4/4 rock feel and jazz it up. Or I can play half time triplets which really creates some cool groves. I can even interweave latin beats. But mostly I like moving back and forth between such feels within the same song. And eventhough I am playing at the same tempo thoughout the song, I can create all kinds of dynamics.

What kind of music do you like or listen to most often?

[waxwing]

Hi Waxwing,

Rhythm is my specialty. I've been drumming for more years then I care to mention. I've played 4/4 feels (Pop, Rock, Country, Rap etc..) Jazz feels (Jazz, swing, blues etc..) Fusion, and complex time signatures.

Blues based music is based off the rhythm of the heart beat. The whole drum beat is centered around the feel of the bass drum going BaBoom, BaBoom, BaBoom, BaBoom.

I don't play much blues based rhythms because, as a drummer, you do get stuck into a pattern that doesn't allow for much expression.

I like 4/4 Rock the best because it provides the most flexibilty to alter the feel within the same rhythm. I can half time the beat and play real heavy (Jon Bohnam style) or I can double time the beat and play fast and furious. Or I can interlay Triplets within the 4/4 rock feel and jazz it up. Or I can play half time triplets which really creates some cool groves. I can even interweave latin beats. But mostly I like moving back and forth between such feels within the same song. And eventhough I am playing at the same tempo thoughout the song, I can create all kinds of dynamics.

What kind of music do you like or listen to most often?Interesting input. I am fascinated by percussion technique. I can imagine the rhythmic combinations you've noted, but in the world of drumming, I've only concentrated on hand drums (djembe, doumbek). I lack control with drumsticks, and would need much practice in order to feel rhythmically capable with them. I am constantly amazed by percussionists' strength (in the forearms, especially). I say that because I don't think many people realize how difficult it is to be an accomplished drummer. I certainly never did until I observed closely, broke some blood vessels in my fingers from hand-drumming, and started attending some percussion ensemble concerts.

I like a variety of music ranging from orchestral to folk/bluegrass to rock/pop to trip-hop to electronica to jazz to....other genres. Currently, I'm rekindling my love of African music.

Im interested in what you said about the way you weave different patterns together. In this sense, it seems that music (especially something as fundamental as rhythm) is largely construction/desonstruction. What do you think of that idea?

[KellyKidd]

Interesting input. I am fascinated by percussion technique. I can imagine the rhythmic combinations you've noted, but in the world of drumming, I've only concentrated on hand drums (djembe, doumbek). I lack control with drumsticks, and would need much practice in order to feel rhythmically capable with them. I am constantly amazed by percussionists' strength (in the forearms, especially). I say that because I don't think many people realize how difficult it is to be an accomplished drummer. I certainly never did until I observed closely, broke some blood vessels in my fingers from hand-drumming, and started attending some percussion ensemble concerts.

I like a variety of music ranging from orchestral to folk/bluegrass to rock/pop to trip-hop to electronica to jazz to....other genres. Currently, I'm rekindling my love of African music.

Im interested in what you said about the way you weave different patterns together. In this sense, it seems that music (especially something as fundamental as rhythm) is largely construction/desonstruction. What do you think of that idea?

If by construction/desonstruction you mean what I think you mean, Then I prefer to think of it as resolving phrases. The best I can describe it is like:

You have a phrase of music, and then the following phrase needs to provide some sort of resolving closure to the first phrase. Of course, that's the simplest pattern. There are A,B,A,C patterns where A is stated, and then B is stated and then A is repeated and then C resolves B. And of course all sorts of patterns, but for any of them to "sit right" muscially, they need that resolving element.

Is that what you are getting at?

If so, then "YES" this is an elementary but essential part to rhythms as well as melodies etc... Even Punk music uses resolving phrases. Otherwise, the music leaves you hanging, kinda like when the VCR breaks with 15 minutes left in the movie and you don't know how it ended.

How I weave patterns is a bit more complex. For Example: I can lay down a simple 4/4 rock beat for a measure, and then repeat the beat in the following measure but also add some 16th note feel roto tom fills in a feel that implies a Samba, but there is still a hard driving AC/DC beat going on under it. Then in the following measure, keep the Samba roto tom stuff going, but half time the AC/DC beat into a heavy syncopated Led Zeppelin beat (which will shift some accents around). You would have to do 2 measures of the Led Zeppelin beat so that the second would resolve the first before returning back to the full time AC/DC beat. Meanwhile the rotos haven't changed.

You can then double time the 8th note rock AC/DC beat into a fast paced quarter note punk beat. The music will sound like it just lept forward when actually, you are still playing at the same tempo. (The Guns and Roses drummer did this at the end of "Paradise City")

OR, I could keep any of the underlying beats (AC/DC, Punk, or Led Zeppelin) and change the feel of the roto tom fills from 16th note dance Samba feel, to Jazzy Triplet note feel, or to straight ahead 8th note rock feel, or to heavy half time Triplet feel.

Interweaving different feels within each other makes for cool groves. I like to keep it all in 4/4 time so it's easy to follow and rock out to (or dance to)

I've heard some African/Cuban percission music that did similar stuff with interweaving, but since it wasn't in 4/4 time, I had a hard time falling into in the grove and I couldn't feel the resolve.

I prefer the simple to the complex, and I don't like complexity for the sake of complexity, but as you mentioned in your intial post, the simple can become monotounous and annoying, So, I try to mix the two.

What's a djembe or a doumbek?

[waxwing]

What's a djembe or a doumbek?
djembe
http://www.rhythmweb.com/djembe/

doumbek
http://www.rhythmweb.com/doumbek/index.html

I think you discussed a different aspect of the idea of construction/deconstruction. I will process tonight, and perhaps be able to give a response tomorrow. :)

[KellyKidd]

I think I killed the thread by getting to technical. Sorry about that, I just got carried away.

[waxwing]

I think I killed the thread by getting to technical. Sorry about that, I just got carried away.I don't think you killed it. I still hear it's heartbeat.

Anyway, I'm interested in what you wrote. My mental state prevented me from commenting on the techincal details, however.



I prefer the simple to the complex, and I don't like complexity for the sake of complexity, but as you mentioned in your intial post, the simple can become monotounous and annoying, So, I try to mix the two.I see. Complexity for the sake of complexity seems heavy-handed, in my opinion. So, I agree with you on that point.

My initial thought on construction/deconstruction had to do with envisioning the rhythmic patterns as 3-D structures. There is the capability for more complex ones, or the most basic fundamental ones. I was thinking of building, rebuilding, and tearing down (stripping down elements to the minimum). I clearly cannot explain what I mean to say, though. Nevermind.

Looking over your comments today, I see that you've nicely illustrated some of my point, simply from a different vantage point.

[KellyKidd]

[QUOTE=waxwing]djembe
http://www.rhythmweb.com/djembe/

doumbek
http://www.rhythmweb.com/doumbek/index.html

I see these in all the music stores. Are they kinda like Congas? I saw Steve Winwood live during his "Higher Love" tour and he had this gal on Congas that was absolutely incredible. She was rockin out the entire show.

[lexiphanic]

I think I killed the thread by getting to technical. Sorry about that, I just got carried away.

I enjoyed your additions. Percussion is currently the weakest part of my musical repertoire.

I long to join a percussion based group, but don't have the time right now.

[Blue]

Years ago, I was accosted by a partly toothless Jamaican man on my way into a public washroom. "You walk like you' dancin' man." I still don't know if he approved or if he was making fun of me.
Thats one of those visualizations thats going to be with me for a long time.

We have a doumbek some relatives brought over for us from the old country.

I was thinking of the simple versus the complex yesterday. I think that avoiding complexity for its own sake is a good description because while I really like music with lots of interworking subtle points I also love minimalistic styles with instruments that strongly resonate. The intro to "Homeworld" by Yes is my favorite example where it almost seems to mimic a far off whale's song.
Obviously I lack any musical verbage.

+Blue